Scotland to become independent in March 2016 if referendum passes

[7by7]

.Want to hear about the 'public' meeting organised by Craiglockhart Parish Church this evening?

The evening of the 8th, actually. Independence Debate 8th May

Your report is written in the first person; does this mean that you actually attended the meeting and wrote that report yourself? If not, who did write it and where did you copy it from (Forum rule 13: fair use.)

Or were you in Thailand so you could be at the Mae Sai border crossing on the afternoon of the 10th (see here)?

[7by7]

Cameron cannot get involved in the referendum campaign? When he encourages people in the rest of the UK to phone the Scots and plead with them to stay, is that not getting involved?

He can offer a personal opinion, but he cannot get involved in a political debate as a representative of the 'No' campaign.

Darling has proven himself to be thoroughly useless with the BT campaign

your opinion, which given your position is not surprising.

- but he has nothing to lose because he knows Salmond will not debate with him. So although the last thing he must want is a debate because he knows he would be a disaster, he also knows that Salmond cannot agree to it because then he would lose the moral high ground regarding Cameron.

If the last thing Darling wants is a debate with Salmond, if he thinks such a debate would be a disaster; why does he keep asking for one?

It is Salmond who refuses to debate with Darling. Talk of Salmond losing the 'moral high ground' is rubbish. If he could demolish Darling and Darling's arguments as easily as you suggest he could then move on; saying "I've disposed of Darling; bring on Cameron!"

But he wont; what's he afraid of?

[wigantojapan]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1.0-9/p403x403/1474369_460706444075036_6711185101794215737_n.jpg

[RuamRudy]

Cameron cannot get involved in the referendum campaign? When he encourages people in the rest of the UK to phone the Scots and plead with them to stay, is that not getting involved?

He can offer a personal opinion, but he cannot get involved in a political debate as a representative of the 'No' campaign.

Darling has proven himself to be thoroughly useless with the BT campaign

your opinion, which given your position is not surprising.

- but he has nothing to lose because he knows Salmond will not debate with him. So although the last thing he must want is a debate because he knows he would be a disaster, he also knows that Salmond cannot agree to it because then he would lose the moral high ground regarding Cameron.

If the last thing Darling wants is a debate with Salmond, if he thinks such a debate would be a disaster; why does he keep asking for one?

It is Salmond who refuses to debate with Darling. Talk of Salmond losing the 'moral high ground' is rubbish. If he could demolish Darling and Darling's arguments as easily as you suggest he could then move on; saying "I've disposed of Darling; bring on Cameron!"

But he wont; what's he afraid of?

Cameron is the leader of a country that, in 4 months or so, is potentially going to embark on a journey to its dissolution, and you think that he cannot get act like a leader and take command? He is the PM of the UK - Salmond is fighting for Scotland to leave the UK. I am afraid that you cannot convince me that Cameron has no place debating Salmond. I understand fully why he will not do so, but that doesn't that the people of Scotland don't deserve the right to see such a spectacle.

I explained why Darling keeps harping on about a debate - he knows that he is expected to do so, to try and show Salmond as scared of him, but he also knows that Salmond will not accept. If he did, then Cameron would simply say that he has had his day in the sun and time to move on. Do you honestly believe that Salmond is scared of Darling?

[7by7]

Yes, otherwise he would agree to a debate.

As for Cameron, damned if he does (accused of interfering); damned if he doesn't (accusations of being scared of Salmond).

Edited May 13, 2014 by 7by7

[wigantojapan]

Herald reader BillFraser writes
"The Scottish Government is NOT running a deficit. The Scottish Government works within a fixed budget which it cannot overspend. The UK Government runs a deficit which it kindly allocates a proportion of to the Scottish National Accounts whilst it neglects to add the revenue from North Sea Oil, as they deem that to be another 'region'.http://www.heraldscotland.com/

[RuamRudy]

Yes, otherwise he would agree to a debate.

Clearly, then, others don't agree with you that Darling is either effective or formidable:

Alistair Darling sidelined by 'save UK' lobby: Brown could take on bigger role against SNP

Alistair Darling has effectively been dumped as head of the campaign to keep Scotland in the UK following crisis cross-party talks.

Labour’s shadow foreign secretary Douglas Alexander has been drafted in to reinvigorate the Better Together campaign run by the former Chancellor amid growing concerns about his ‘lacklustre’ performance.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2626699/Darling-sidelined-save-UK-lobby-Brown-bigger-role-against-SNP.html

[7by7]

The only thing I read in the Mail that I'd believe is the date; even then I'd check a calendar!

But, assuming it's true; will Salmond agree to debate with the BT leader; whoever that may be?

As we saw in an earlier post, Darling will debate with anyone from the 'Yes' side; even a local MEP!

As I said in my edit above: As for Cameron, damned if he does (accused of interfering); damned if he doesn't (accusations of being scared of Salmond).

[RuamRudy]

The only thing I read in the Mail that I'd believe is the date; even then I'd check a calendar!

But, assuming it's true; will Salmond agree to debate with the BT leader; whoever that may be?

As we saw in an earlier post, Darling will debate with anyone from the 'Yes' side; even a local MEP!

As I said in my edit above: As for Cameron, damned if he does (accused of interfering); damned if he doesn't (accusations of being scared of Salmond).

Salmond is the leader of the Scottish parliament, not the leader of the Yes campaign. Blair Jenkins is the appropriate person to debate whoever replaces Darling as the head of the No campaign.

I am not sure Cameron would be accused of interfering if he is invited to debate. I sincerely think it is because his focus groups tell him that he does not go down well with the target audience.

[wigantojapan]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/cameron-to-make-two-day-foray-to-scotland-to-fight-for-the-union-independen.24211998

of course cameron is only come up to give an opinion and not get involved and off course all the messages he sent of to embassies around the world about the referendum was him only having his opinion and not being involved.

[7by7]

The only thing I read in the Mail that I'd believe is the date; even then I'd check a calendar!

But, assuming it's true; will Salmond agree to debate with the BT leader; whoever that may be?

As we saw in an earlier post, Darling will debate with anyone from the 'Yes' side; even a local MEP!

As I said in my edit above: As for Cameron, damned if he does (accused of interfering); damned if he doesn't (accusations of being scared of Salmond).

Salmond is the leader of the Scottish parliament, not the leader of the Yes campaign. Blair Jenkins is the appropriate person to debate whoever replaces Darling as the head of the No campaign.

I am not sure Cameron would be accused of interfering if he is invited to debate. I sincerely think it is because his focus groups tell him that he does not go down well with the target audience.

Blair Jenkins may be Chief Executive of the Yes campaign; but Salmond certainly makes sure it is he who gets all the publicity and is seen as the campaign's mouthpiece!

Will Jenkins agree to debate with Darling (or, if the Mail is to be believed, Darling's successor)?

If Jenkins is the real leader of the campaign, then surely it is he who should be demanding a debate with Cameron; not Salmond?

[7by7]

.Want to hear about the 'public' meeting organised by Craiglockhart Parish Church this evening?

The evening of the 8th, actually. Independence Debate 8th May

Your report is written in the first person; does this mean that you actually attended the meeting and wrote that report yourself? If not, who did write it and where did you copy it from (Forum rule 13: fair use.)

Or were you in Thailand so you could be at the Mae Sai border crossing on the afternoon of the 10th (see here)?

interesting that you seem to be stalking my postings i will take that up with a moderator..

.How do you not know i am not in Scotland right now,,or even China or even timbuktoo.?..you dont know,,,

,The question has been answered ,, and again you come on here and act like the judge and jury ,,well go ask Scott yourself I challenge you to do that.

Again you try to make it personal and answer nothing to do with the posting but there again the No side have nothing to offer

The questions were suggested to me by Scott after I reported your post for breaching the fair use rule.

Will you answer them?

I have to leave for work now, so you have plenty of time to prepare a reply.

Edited May 13, 2014 by 7by7

[wigantojapan]

well if that is true i will certainly take it up with Scott Who are you to stalk me bawheid and question my intergrity.

When did Scott give you permission to question my integrity share that message

It has already been established between Scott and myself that there was NO BREACH of the rules,,,so that answers your question where i was and who wrote it.

You have been reported for trolling and stalking .

[transam]

well if that is true i will certainly take it up with Scott Who are you to stalk me bawheid and question my intergrity.

When did Scott give you permission to question my integrity share that message

It has already been established between Scott and myself that there was NO BREACH of the rules,,,so that answers your question where i was and who wrote it.

You have been reported for trolling and stalking .

Perhaps on this topic you have been a bit over the top, perhaps not stalking but a bit over the top. Now if you were to post you will be in the new yes government l might understand.............

[wigantojapan]

well if that is true i will certainly take it up with Scott Who are you to stalk me bawheid and question my intergrity.

When did Scott give you permission to question my integrity share that message

It has already been established between Scott and myself that there was NO BREACH of the rules,,,so that answers your question where i was and who wrote it.

You have been reported for trolling and stalking .

Perhaps on this topic you have been a bit over the top, perhaps not stalking but a bit over the top. Now if you were to post you will be in the new yes government l might understand.............

NO IT IS STALKING USING A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT POST FROM A DIFFERENT THREAD IS STALKING IN MY EYES......ITS LIKE SOMEONE HAS ROBBED YOUR HOUSE....

[nontabury]

well if that is true i will certainly take it up with Scott Who are you to stalk me bawheid and question my intergrity.

When did Scott give you permission to question my integrity share that message

It has already been established between Scott and myself that there was NO BREACH of the rules,,,so that answers your question where i was and who wrote it.

You have been reported for trolling and stalking .

Perhaps on this topic you have been a bit over the top, perhaps not stalking but a bit over the top. Now if you were to post you will be in the new yes government l might understand.............

NO IT IS STALKING USING A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT POST FROM A DIFFERENT THREAD IS STALKING IN MY EYES......ITS LIKE SOMEONE HAS ROBBED YOUR HOUSE....

Have you always been an habitual victim?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[wigantojapan]

.Want to hear about the 'public' meeting organised by Craiglockhart Parish Church this evening?

The evening of the 8th, actually. Independence Debate 8th May

Your report is written in the first person; does this mean that you actually attended the meeting and wrote that report yourself? If not, who did write it and where did you copy it from (Forum rule 13: fair use.)

Or were you in Thailand so you could be at the Mae Sai border crossing on the afternoon of the 10th (see here)?

interesting that you seem to be stalking my postings i will take that up with a moderator..

.How do you not know i am not in Scotland right now,,or even China or even timbuktoo.?..you dont know,,,

,The question has been answered ,, and again you come on here and act like the judge and jury ,,well go ask Scott yourself I challenge you to do that.

Again you try to make it personal and answer nothing to do with the posting but there again the No side have nothing to offer

The questions were suggested to me by Scott after I reported your post for breaching the fair use rule.

Will you answer them?

I have to leave for work now, so you have plenty of time to prepare a reply.

Well you are certainly no Sherlock Holmes ,also it might surprise you to know that Scotland do have aeroplanes,

,,Aye one that fly ,,in the sky,,and they can fly as quick and has high as Uk planes,

,,though the taxes are higher.

...Oops they can even fly to Thailand,,,,rumor has it that they even fly as far as NZ .

..Off course you would have to google Craiglockhart to see where the nearest airport is ..I didn't need to do that,

,

,,Have fun wasting your time looking at plane schedules,,,what time did the meeting close....journey time from church to airport,,,,etcetc.....you can even see what is the shortest time from Europe to the mai sai border..which i wasnt at ,,but non the less was passing on messages from people to try and help them,,,,Aye please tell me that one....

you can waste any amount of time rather than questions on the debate cause you know you dont have very many and the ones that you do have are being shot down as we speak by well informed people in Scotland,,who when they do have the chance to speak,,,which they never at the Darling meeting

.You could have asked me any number of questions on the debate in question,,what were the questions to even what was darling wearing if you like,,but naw you choose your consistent path o thinking you know whats going on ,,when you no little to nothing at all,,apart from what you read on line...

.You have no idea how many times i have been in Scotland and how many meetings i have been to. recently.

[wigantojapan]

right back on Topic

A supremely uncomfortable appearance on The Sunday Politics for Labour's Douglas Alexander. Cringe into your seat as he says at 0.28 that the "£450" VAT bill represents the extra a family will pay "during a year", then as Andrew Neil shreds his figures Alexander backtracks in a panic and says at 1.10 that "it doesn't say it's an annualised figure" and tries to pretend that it covers the entire period since 2010. (Broadcast: 11 May 2014)

[RuamRudy]

The only thing I read in the Mail that I'd believe is the date; even then I'd check a calendar!

But, assuming it's true; will Salmond agree to debate with the BT leader; whoever that may be?

As we saw in an earlier post, Darling will debate with anyone from the 'Yes' side; even a local MEP!

As I said in my edit above: As for Cameron, damned if he does (accused of interfering); damned if he doesn't (accusations of being scared of Salmond).

Salmond is the leader of the Scottish parliament, not the leader of the Yes campaign. Blair Jenkins is the appropriate person to debate whoever replaces Darling as the head of the No campaign.

I am not sure Cameron would be accused of interfering if he is invited to debate. I sincerely think it is because his focus groups tell him that he does not go down well with the target audience.

Blair Jenkins may be Chief Executive of the Yes campaign; but Salmond certainly makes sure it is he who gets all the publicity and is seen as the campaign's mouthpiece!

Will Jenkins agree to debate with Darling (or, if the Mail is to be believed, Darling's successor)?

If Jenkins is the real leader of the campaign, then surely it is he who should be demanding a debate with Cameron; not Salmond?

I don't think Jenkins has anything to do with it - Darling has already ruled out a debate with him. Seems like he is also playing games.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/9568908/Alistair-Darling-Yes-Scotland-chief-is-Alex-Salmond-underling.html

Sent from my SM-P600 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited May 13, 2014 by RuamRudy

[wigantojapan]

If we had known this last week we could have all sung a wee song,will you no come back again,,,Naw dinnae thing so..

This morning’s Daily Mail reports that Alistair Darling has been “sidelined” by the No campaign, with Douglas Alexander drafted into his place. We’ve remarked previouslyon this site about our bemusement over the reverence with which Mr Alexander’s intellect is regarded by the Scottish media, and we’re none the wiser after this:http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-brain-of-north-britain/

[wigantojapan]

http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/energy-and-scottish-independence/

Every couple of weeks – or so it seems – a UK cabinet minister makes a day-trip to Edinburgh to give a speech saying how dreadful Scotland’s future will be if it votes for independence.Accompanied by a repetitive, poorly argued and partisan 101 page document on Scotland’s Energy Future, DECC’s Ed Davey made the hour-long flight north a couple of weeks ago to predict that Scottish energy prices would soar.

[wigantojapan]

[nontabury]

Who controls the media will win the vote. People vote like sheep,,,,,

If that is so, how come UKIP is doing so well, it seems that the media is definitely against them, yet the electorate is showing that they can think for themselves. Some would say that the electorate is pushing UKIP, as opposed to the SNP pushing the electorate.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Who would say that? Please provide examples so that their assertions might be scrutinised.

Every opinion poll that I've read give UKIP an ever increasing % of voters intentions, the latest is around 32%, it should't be to difficult for you to find the relevant information.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

I do not disagree that UKIP appear to be making advances in England. Personally, I see this as a good thing because UKIP is widely, and rightly, recognised in Scotland as being the a party of racists and bigots, which should surely help people realise that a no vote risks us being further afflicted by the Nasty Party, with a bit of BNP-Lite thrown in (and totally deflates all the nonsense about whether Scotland would be permitted to remain in the EU - the Nasty Party want us out, BNP-Lite want us out).

What I was asking you to clarify was specifically, who would say that the SNP is pushing the electorate?

Accusations of racism work both ways if you continue to refer to others as racist, people will begin to wonder if you are just projecting your own infantile character. It seems so many people

Are incapable of debating anything and just dismiss anything they don't understand with accusations of racism.

UKIP are the only party that will not allow BNP members or even ex members to join. Even so there may be some racialist who may support UKIP, probably the same can be said for the other

Political parties including SNP.

So what is a racist, well according to "The Crown Prosecution Service" they define a racial group as any group of people who are defined by their race,colour,Nationality including citizenship, or ethnic or national origin. Makes you think does't it, when you remember the Scottish nationalist rent a mob who called NF a fxxking English basxxrd on his visit last year to Scotland.

I would just like to add that I am not a member of UKIP, have never voted for them and will not next week. However I do think it is only right to try to keep a balanced and open mind on everything.

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[nontabury]

UKIP seems to have many candidates of different colours, perhaps they should rename themselves the rainbow alliance.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[nontabury]

Who controls the media will win the vote. People vote like sheep,,,,,

If that is so, how come UKIP is doing so well, it seems that the media is definitely against them, yet the electorate is showing that they can think for themselves. Some would say that the electorate is pushing UKIP, as opposed to the SNP pushing the electorate.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Who would say that? Please provide examples so that their assertions might be scrutinised.

Every opinion poll that I've read give UKIP an ever increasing % of voters intentions, the latest is around 32%, it should't be to difficult for you to find the relevant information.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

UKIP of course stands for UNITED KINGDOM INDEPENDENCE PARTY Does it not Nontebury....The polls you have read are ENGLISH POLLS are they NOT?

hardly UK polls..or is Scotland not in the UK...In Scotland you will find UKIP at around 11%..and that is 11% too much in my eyes.... .unless you want armed vigilantes on the streets

here's something afoot in the southern part of the UK, chiefly in England, and I'm forced to say it's very very scary.

How would you feel if you read this statement by Britain First and more importantly as a Muslim or some other brown skinned foreigner...

Here is a statement from Britain First, before reading it I must point out, this is a public offer to UKIP and as far as I'm aware UKIP have not responded in any way. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=460398084105458&set=a.346633882148546.1073741826.300455573433044&type=1.....There you go son you have your 3 minutes in the sun ......

"We'll" DAD, it seems this Facebook has absolutely nothing to do with UKIP.

You are correct, at the moment according to the opinion polls taken in Scotland, Ukip's support stands around 11%( double their 2009 vote) however it seems it only take's about 12-13% of the votes to require one of the 6 Scottish European seats, indeed UKIP are targeting two of the seats, no wonder SNP are afraid of an alternative view. Never mind Alex Salmonds does have one English admirer, Nigel Farage, who has expressed his admiration for the first minister, describing him as a "brilliant" political operator. He then reminds the people that the SNP is not offering the Scottish electorate genuine Independence, in fact the SNP are not prepared to offer a separate Scotland a referendum on the EU at all.

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[RuamRudy]

Who controls the media will win the vote. People vote like sheep,,,,,

If that is so, how come UKIP is doing so well, it seems that the media is definitely against them, yet the electorate is showing that they can think for themselves. Some would say that the electorate is pushing UKIP, as opposed to the SNP pushing the electorate.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Who would say that? Please provide examples so that their assertions might be scrutinised.

Every opinion poll that I've read give UKIP an ever increasing % of voters intentions, the latest is around 32%, it should't be to difficult for you to find the relevant information.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

I do not disagree that UKIP appear to be making advances in England. Personally, I see this as a good thing because UKIP is widely, and rightly, recognised in Scotland as being the a party of racists and bigots, which should surely help people realise that a no vote risks us being further afflicted by the Nasty Party, with a bit of BNP-Lite thrown in (and totally deflates all the nonsense about whether Scotland would be permitted to remain in the EU - the Nasty Party want us out, BNP-Lite want us out).

What I was asking you to clarify was specifically, who would say that the SNP is pushing the electorate?

Accusations of racism work both ways if you continue to refer to others as racist, people will begin to wonder if you are just projecting your own infantile character. It seems so many people

Are incapable of debating anything and just dismiss anything they don't understand with accusations of racism.

UKIP are the only party that will not allow BNP members or even ex members to join. Even so there may be some racialist who may support UKIP, probably the same can be said for the other

Political parties including SNP.

So what is a racist, well according to "The Crown Prosecution Service" they define a racial group as any group of people who are defined by their race,colour,Nationality including citizenship, or ethnic or national origin. Makes you think does't it, when you remember the Scottish nationalist rent a mob who called NF a fxxking English basxxrd on his visit last year to Scotland.

I would just like to add that I am not a member of UKIP, have never voted for them and will not next week. However I do think it is only right to try to keep a balanced and open mind on everything.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

I am not sure that my infantile character requires protecting. As for debating the issues, you are hardly in a position to accuse others of skirting around issues when the majority of your posts simply pour unfounded scorn and insults upon those who don't conform to your views.

Oh, and the Crown Prosecution Service (no need for the quotation marks) has no relevance in Scotland. I think you were grasping for Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service.

That last sentence of yours - funniest of the day, thanks

[wigantojapan]

yes its just a tad illuminating is it not that nontebury defends the UKIP so vigorously , as his family members and himself would be the first to fall foul to their policies if he was brave enough to take them back to a UKIP England.

[wigantojapan]

http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/westminster-charges-scotland-billions-of-pounds-in-service-costs

/The latest Government figures on Scotland’s economy contain billions in service charges for activities in the rest of the UK. As pointed out by Douglas Fraser, BBC Scotland Business and Economy Editor, this raises a challenge over measuring Scotland’s economy.

Despite claiming to present Scotland’s financial position, the Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland figures include higher costs for defence, debt and administrative services that should not apply to Scotland.

Again why the no side want Scotland in the Union,,,They need scotland but as all open minded people know we do not need them

[wigantojapan]

http://ericjoyce.co.uk/2014/03/scotland-foolish-no-campaign-is-morphing-into-the-nasty-campaign/

Theresa May, The UK Home Secretary, has said that a ‘Yes’ vote in the Scottish referendum would see the UK government putting up passport and immigration controls at the border. Really? Rather than accept a common travel area, as exists with Ireland, the UK government would instigate full international border arrangements – arrangements which exist nowhere else in Europe – on the UK mainland?

​aye people with broad open minds believe all this don't they

[transam]

yes its just a tad illuminating is it not that nontebury defends the UKIP so vigorously , as his family members and himself would be the first to fall foul to their policies if he was brave enough to take them back to a UKIP England.

In the UK as a whole stuff must be looked at. A vast number of foreign scroungers from all over the planet are infiltrating the UK system for THEIR gain. We UK folk KNOW it, we are fed up with it....................