Retirement visa extension restrictions for foreign married couples

[Mario2008]

This was to be expected! Any idea whether "grandfather" rule will be applied here as well, i.e. couples already on an extension of stay will be able to extend under previous rule of only one income/1x800K?

Sadly No. This new rule was introduced today at Phuket Immigration. Whether or not the retiree and dependant spouse has been here for many years or not, the spouse of the retiree must have a separate bank account, and the dependant spouse must be over 50. This new rule is going to affect many many couples. some who are well entrenched with properties now sitting at home in bliss unaware that the next time they apply for an extension they will hit a brick wall. I really feel for them.

What is the source of your information regarding this new rule being implemented as of today?

[CIHUAHUA]

What if you have a joint bank account with your wife with 800.000 THB?

I have a joint account with my Thai wife and need a minimum of 1.6 million baht in that account in order to qualify for my 1 year retirement visa extension.

So it`s only fair that the same rules apply to ex-pats married to ex-pat wives also regarding joint bank accounts.

I can remember some years ago Immigration introduced this rule, then after a few months and after a few thousand farang married couples of little wealth left the country, the Government done a U turn and changed their minds. Only fair, 2 foreigners staying long term in Thailand should be independently assessed regarding their financial status for remaining in the Kingdom.

800000 baht ($25000) is peanuts in today`s terms and quite honestly for the individual farangs who cannot afford to have this amount as savings in a bank, well, tough, they can find somewhere cheaper to plonk their butts.

We also have a joint dollar account at BKK but the question remains does the 800,000 Baht need to be in her name and will my income be counted. She is my other half and does not have an income of her own. She is also under 50 yrs old. Yes, I remember this same thing about 4-5 years ago. Hope it blows over like it did then. The immigration game is getting old and makes me feel insecure with all the maybes and worry. Yes, we may move to another country but not all of us "farangs" have to "plunk our butts" anywhere because it is "cheaper" . Since I don't have a local for a wife moving away may be easy.

[mimithewoof]

Due to a mistake by a Thai visa agent whom we'd used previously without problems, my husband is already on his own retirement extension, although we were hoping to have him back on mine as before in February 2014. Unfortunately, the timing was bad as, in August 2012, he had given up his 'B' visa and work permit and was given 7 days to leave the country as he was not allowed onto my extension. After a Mai Sai run, a 90-day visa and the introduction of 800,000bht into his bank account, it was November before he could get his own visa. There is now less than three months between our two extension dates.

When I arrived, I was mis-sold an eight-year Friends Provident IOM investment with triple charges, trailing commissions, etc, etc - although I had clearly stipulated 5 years and many other requirements which were ignored by the CM 'salesman' posing as a financial advisor. It has, of course,performed poorly and ends in October 2014. I had been preparing to take the cash out around now, but have just found out that the sum remaining had been placed by the BKK investment 'middle men' into a full five-year bond in 2011, without my knowledge or agreement. I am going to have to pay a considerable sum to get my cash, first for the last year of the original investment and then to get out of the five-year plan. Whilst the remainder will still be enough, this new immigration requirement erodes my accessible capital in case of emergency, especially because of the juxtaposition of our two extensions.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who will lose out due to the necessity of losing out in order to bring to bring cash into the country, given the state of so-called financial advice here.

As regards retiree posters who consider the change is a great idea without examining its major flaws, given that they mostly refer to amounts in dollars, I can only assume they are from the American sector of this somewhat divided community. Wherever in the world people decide to retire, most plan their lives as far ahead as is possible, with many investing their nest egg to provide an additional income as well as buying a condo. Moving the goalposts whilst the game is ongoing can destroy any chance of a peaceful retirement, and those couples whose extension falls due at any time during the next several months may have serious problems.

For the two years I was legally employed here, I met a good number of expat couples who were working their butts off to help the disadvantaged in this city and beyond. Many were retirees, and claiming nothing from Thailand except the chance to give of their knowledge, experience and kind hearts. They were also spending their income in the Kingdom. These, and those wishing to live out their days according to their needs, not their wants, are the people who will be worst affected by this change. I don't expect this to cut any slack with Thai immigration, nor do I expect most snowbirds to understand the loss of free help to any community.

It may be that, in future, this sad, confused country gets the migrants it deserves, rather than those it needs.

We're happy to keep going on our UK state pension with a back-up of emergency cash until it's no longer possible, then we're out, sadly without a deal of regret.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Speaking as an American, I'd offer two suggestions:

1. Regarding this supposed change, before going too far, I'd check with your local Immigration office directly and see if they know anything about any change relating to the financial quals for husband and wife renewals for retirement extensions of stay, and ask specifically about the detail being discussed here.

2. Obviously, Thailand can and does sometimes change the rules relating to Immigration because it's their country and their government. But if they had any interest in showing equity and fairness to those staying here, they'd at least grandfather in those already here...like they've done before with other Immigration requirements.

Notably, in this thread, there's been ZERO information about whether any grandfathering will apply, if this supposed rule change really turns out to be real... and not just a false report.

[evadgib]

Another unconfirmed article reporting same:

http://www.samuitimes.com/changes-requirements-ex-pat-wives-retirement-visa/

[NancyL]

Well, Mimi, I wasn't happy with my visa situation when we got here, either, because Hubby and I had well in excess of 1.6 MM in investment accounts in the U.S. and used evidence of those accounts to each apply for O-A visas in the U.S. -- or so we thought. We each submitted the financial documents, police reports, medical reports (incidentally our doctors INSISTED on actually testing for all listed conditions cha-ching!) We made the mistake of including a certified copy of our marriage certificate for good measure. Guess what came back in our passports -- Hubby got an O-A visa and I got a 12-month multi-entry O visa. Yes, indeed, I guess I was expected to either do border runs every 90 days or go to CM Immigration and get my status changed to be carried as a dependent on his O-A visa.

We had planned to "work" the O-A multi-entrys visa to obtain two years' life and not have to move funds to Thailand for almost two years. Yet, we had to move quickly to get 800,000 baht over here quickly to support my own visa. So yes, quite often people find that the long-term plans for their nest eggs have to change once they get to Thailand.

Edited December 4, 2013 by NancyL

[Jingthing]

In past hasn't grandfathering been about financial levels rather than larger policy changes? I think this change if real is more the latter and more likely won't be grandfathered.

Sent from my GT-S5360B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[IAMSOBAD]

I say we do like Thais and make some noise about how this really hurts good and honest people with ZERO warning.

Out of the blue law changing to people who planned their lives and monies according to one rule just to gave the rug pulled out from under them is disgusting.

All you single people what if they decide to change your amount to 2 million?

Not so funny then is it?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

In past hasn't grandfathering been about financial levels rather than larger policy changes? I think this change if real is more the latter and more likely won't be grandfathered.

Sent from my GT-S5360B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I think that's correct Jing... Although, the supposed change being discussed here kind of operates as a change in financial levels for the impacted wife.

At the moment, we're all in the dark, because nothing official or even vaguely official has been heard from any part of Thai Immigration on this issue. Just an unattributed report in PattayaToday.

[F4UCorsair]

maybe it is time to move to another asian country, what about falangs married to thais or are we now going to have total discrimination its bad enough that a falang married to a thai only has to show 400,000 as oppposed to 800,000 which a falang couple have to show but what would you expect in amazing thailand.

I can't imagine this applying to a Thai wife, only foreign wife, surely??

[Jingthing]

Actually over the years Pattaya Today has been a pretty good source of visa change news.

Sent from my GT-S5360B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[PlastikbinLina]

This was to be expected! Any idea whether "grandfather" rule will be applied here as well, i.e. couples already on an extension of stay will be able to extend under previous rule of only one income/1x800K?

Sadly No. This new rule was introduced today at Phuket Immigration. Whether or not the retiree and dependant spouse has been here for many years or not, the spouse of the retiree must have a separate bank account, and the dependant spouse must be over 50. This new rule is going to affect many many couples. some who are well entrenched with properties now sitting at home in bliss unaware that the next time they apply for an extension they will hit a brick wall. I really feel for them.

What is the source of your information regarding this new rule being implemented as of today?

Me. I work in Phuket Immigration and this was told to me at 9am. However just a short time ago the new ruke has been suspended for the time being. Let's hope for good. I'll keep you posted

[DrTuner]

Illegal .They are supposed to both have the required amount of money. Is your post lawful?

Why would staggering be illegal ? After all, you are giving a gift to some one, who then uses it to prove a balance on his/her account. The fact that he/she will then give an equal gift back does not concern immigration. Giving gifts is legal. There are no regulations from immigration on how the money that was on the account may be spent.

But, they could start asking if the money came from abroad or not and get cranky. So the safest way is to remit the money back to originating country after extension has been approved and transfer it to the others account. AFAIK perfectly legal.

[biplanebluey]

What if you have a joint bank account with your wife with 800.000 THB?

You have just been told plain enough----NO----it has to be in 2 separate a/cs----with 800,000 in each

But as david555 has stated above---- if you separate your application dates by say 4 months you can "rescue" each other with the same 800,000 Bt-------- that too to me seems easy enough----------- well until they find a way to plug that gap !!!

[ubonjoe]

But how would you separate the dates for the extensions. You cannot do one early or the other late enough. It means one person leaving and re-entering with a new visa and then the extension.

[aveabeeror2]

Illegal .They are supposed to both have the required amount of money. Is your post lawful?

Why would staggering be illegal ? After all, you are giving a gift to some one, who then uses it to prove a balance on his/her account. The fact that he/she will then give an equal gift back does not concern immigration. Giving gifts is legal. There are no regulations from immigration on how the money that was on the account may be spent.

But, they could start asking if the money came from abroad or not and get cranky. So the safest way is to remit the money back to originating country after extension has been approved and transfer it to the others account. AFAIK perfectly legal.

Not being a legal mastermind like a lot of people on here,I would think that if you went to immigration and asked them will staggering be legal, they will reply in the negative. (best legal way I can think of putting it). If that is the case, then this topic can be put to bed. Better still, I have my 90 reporting tomorrow, I will take with me my ipad and get their opinion on these posts. Cheers.

[IAMSOBAD]

Soon farang will have their drivers permit revoked right after they buy a car

I feel so sad for couples that have invested in condos...added to their community and are now being given new rules to an old game.

With all the shiiiit going on here with riots...they should be begging for farang money to stay.

Imagine how many tourists come here to visit their farang families and then write blogs promoting Thailand.

Shoot yourself again in the foot Royal Thai Police.

[Maestro]

What is the source of your information regarding this new rule being implemented as of today?

Me. I work in Phuket Immigration and this was told to me at 9am. However just a short time ago the new ruke has been suspended for the time being. Let's hope for good. I'll keep you posted

"..told to me at 9am" Told by whom (name and rank, please)?

[ubonjoe]

From a reliable source I can say that the info about Phuket immigration is correct. Also that Bangkok immigration has said that there is no changes there.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I guess that kind of puts the lie -- at least for now -- to the OP news report in this thread... So folks can calm down a bit.

But it does suggest there's something bubbling out there on the subject.

[DrTuner]

Illegal .They are supposed to both have the required amount of money. Is your post lawful?

Why would staggering be illegal ? After all, you are giving a gift to some one, who then uses it to prove a balance on his/her account. The fact that he/she will then give an equal gift back does not concern immigration. Giving gifts is legal. There are no regulations from immigration on how the money that was on the account may be spent.

But, they could start asking if the money came from abroad or not and get cranky. So the safest way is to remit the money back to originating country after extension has been approved and transfer it to the others account. AFAIK perfectly legal.

Not being a legal mastermind like a lot of people on here,I would think that if you went to immigration and asked them will staggering be legal, they will reply in the negative. (best legal way I can think of putting it). If that is the case, then this topic can be put to bed. Better still, I have my 90 reporting tomorrow, I will take with me my ipad and get their opinion on these posts. Cheers.

Excellent, but do remember the officers processing the 90 day reports may have no knowledge of the pension extensions. In Chonburi office they are completely separate desks and I haven't seen the officers being rotated at all.

[zorroverde]

Please explain...one person = 800k...two persons = 1.6k. If more, e.g., kids, should be more still. The past policy was basically a loophole in the rules that has now been fixed.

What's rapacious about it? The money doesn't go to the Thai government, it is for the maintenance of the retired couple while in Thailand and it doesn't even all have to be spent. Your post just looks like more generic Thailand bashing to me.

There is no loophole. There is a rule for this dependent extension in Police order 777/2551 that specifically allows it. If it is no longer allowed now it is not closing a loophole but changing the rule in such a manner as to disallow it.

I couldn't agree more.There is no loophole closed but simply an arbitrary raising of the bar,as long, at least,as they don't officially amend/change the quoted Police Order.Until now it was absolutely clear and uncontroversial that the so-called dependent visa didn't require additional funds to be shown

by the dependents (wife,children) of a retiree.In Thai immigration slang also called "following".

[whiteman]

I am sorry if some one has already mentioned this but looking at it logically It is a one off 1.6 million Bhat show for a retired married couple.

So let us say that you two have always lived on eg 800000 Bhat a year like previous years so you should still have alot left over from the 1.6 million and the top up for your 2nd and 3rd years will be the same as you always lived on b4 this new rule came in.

It is a one time increase and the balance you say you will never spend on your one year living here goes towards the next 1.6 million show.

Edited December 4, 2013 by whiteman

[annabel]

How many people making the worthless comments will be affected by this new, and make sense, law?

No, sorry, you don't know what your talking about. If you think a couple now need 1.600,000 Bt to be worthy to live and spend money in Thailand

then ask for that. And if you are going to mess with peoples lives who have been living in Thailand for years by not grandfathering it in then be up front and say so.

It's the same old story... they came for my friend and I said nothing..... I guarentee you that however you are in Thailand you can be affected by the prescident of

not grandfathering in. Oh.... tomorrow, you need 3 million baht in the bank at 1% interest... so sorry it's policy now.

Ok, I guess we are clear, IMO who had the worthless comment.

The law is the law, if a person doesnt like it, they can always go back home. Thailand was never meant to be a retirement village.If you were back in your own country and some old age pensioners from another country who move there complained about govt. policy, what would you have to say about that?

"Thailand was never meant to be a retirement village" ...... and they introduced this Retirement Visa for people over 50 years old for what reason ...??? What purpose...??

[khunphilip]

Like it equal rights

[Maestro]

It has always been equal rights. The wife could be the dependent of her husband on a retirement extension. The husband could be the dependent of his wife on a retirement extension. No discrimination whatsoever based on gender.

[DrTuner]

Why did they introduce the 50y old retirement visa ? To get the money, of course. Only they set the age limit to Thai standards, nasty farangs live to be way too old and have gotten too clever with their money. Damned internet and all that.

Also wouldn't be surprised if that limit will be moved up in the future.

[Jingthing]

MUCH more likely to move the age down as for the Philippines. You do realize the last age change was down from 55 to 50? No way is the age going up from 50 ...

Sent from my GT-S5360B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[DrTuner]

In this particular case of the age limit I have to concede that the Thai immigration probably knows better how to maximize the profit. Another issue is the amount of money you have to have to get the extension. with high inflation it's likely go up.

Ideal would be to get them here, spend all their money and croak.

[aveabeeror2]

Illegal .They are supposed to both have the required amount of money. Is your post lawful?

Why would staggering be illegal ? After all, you are giving a gift to some one, who then uses it to prove a balance on his/her account. The fact that he/she will then give an equal gift back does not concern immigration. Giving gifts is legal. There are no regulations from immigration on how the money that was on the account may be spent.

But, they could start asking if the money came from abroad or not and get cranky. So the safest way is to remit the money back to originating country after extension has been approved and transfer it to the others account. AFAIK perfectly legal.

Not being a legal mastermind like a lot of people on here,I would think that if you went to immigration and asked them will staggering be legal, they will reply in the negative. (best legal way I can think of putting it). If that is the case, then this topic can be put to bed. Better still, I have my 90 reporting tomorrow, I will take with me my ipad and get their opinion on these posts. Cheers.

Excellent, but do remember the officers processing the 90 day reports may have no knowledge of the pension extensions. In Chonburi office they are completely separate desks and I haven't seen the officers being rotated at all.

Didnt get to immigration, decided that checking on the road works ,north end Beach Rd would be more interesting.