US citizens......do you FBAR?

[jaideeguy]

This may sound like a wind up for a dirty bar-stool joke, but it is real and a new one to me after living in Asia for more than 2 decades. Surprised that my accountant never pointed it out to me. So, if you are on the 800,000THB in the bank retirement option, then you should file according the the following that was copied off Wikipedia

"U.S. citizens must file the FBAR if they have a financial interest in, or authority over, foreign bank accounts that have an aggregate value of $10,000 at any point in a year.^[10][11] Additionally, they must report the accounts on Schedule B of the Form 1040 tax form. The FBAR should be filed separately with the U.S. Treasury by June 30 of each year."

[JLCrab]

For a US citizen, avoiding the need to file an FBAR is one of the great benefits of the 65K per month route. Even if you properly comply, the IRS has been alerted that you maintain accounts in a foreign bank which is better avoided if possible.

[dao16]

Wow....

At first, I thought the topic was FUBAR, hahaha.

Um, while I don't have that kind of cash here in Thailand, I have had that and more in accounts elsewhere and never knew anything about it. If this is true, I know dozens of people who are in violation of it. I thought that was all just covered by filing regular tax returns, and that they would assume you had your money there. Oh well, nothing I can do about that now.

[thailiketoo]

If you are a citizen but don't pay taxes (retired or whatever) what could the US government do to your accounts in Thailand?

[Tywais]

Been doing it every year. The penalties are severe. JT will be along to catch you all up on it.

[thailiketoo]

I think JT will talk about people who pay taxes and forget I said US citizens who don't pay taxes or have any US accounts but I'll wait and see.

[meechai]

Just started last year doing it myself.

Did it all online & was pretty painless.

I think I read that online filing may be the only option soon.

Ahhh good old USA. "my advice for those who die / Declare the pennies on your eyes"

[jaideeguy]

Hey JT............waiting on your post. Now, when they say "aggregate "..............are they including joint accounts with my Thai wife?? what about accounts that are from funds from income here in country?? and it seems by the replies so far that some of us are totally unaware of this FBAR. Can we play ignorant??

[Jingthing]

Of course I FBAR. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Sent from my GT-S5360B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[meechai]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/560974-americans-major-fbar-news-e-filing-now-possible-and-set-to-become-required-in-2013/?p=6481697&hl=%2Bfbar

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/626924-us-foreign-bank-account-reporting/?p=6564827&hl=%2Bfbar

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/647338-fbar-foreign-bank-account-report/?p=6972857&hl=%2Bfbar

That should keep you busy

Also as I read it does now need to be done via their online form

Effective July 1, 2013, FBARs must be filed electronically using the E-Filing System maintained by the US Department of the Treasury’s Financial Crimes Enforcement Network

http://americansabroad.org/issues/fbar/fbar-e-filing/

Edited December 5, 2013 by meechai

[NeverSure]

Just file it. It's no big deal.

The penalties for running afoul of the IRS could easily be a full stop in your social security payments until it's sorted out. The money transferred to Thailand from a US bank isn't taxable. It's just a form.

Every dime of income I have is reported to the IRS anyway. I file my tax returns electronically from Quicken, and I'm free of any concerns.

I agree with JLCrab. If you can keep your money in the US and use the income method for the retirement extension, you avoid all of that.

[Jingthing]

Yes online filing is now the ONLY option for those who must fbar ...

Sent from my GT-S5360B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[thailiketoo]

Just file it. It's no big deal.

The penalties for running afoul of the IRS could easily be a full stop in your social security payments until it's sorted out. The money transferred to Thailand from a US bank isn't taxable. It's just a form.

Every dime of income I have is reported to the IRS anyway. I file my tax returns electronically from Quicken, and I'm free of any concerns.

I agree with JLCrab. If you can keep your money in the US and use the income method for the retirement extension, you avoid all of that.

As a general rule the IRS will limit what they take to 15%. The IRS should not take Supplemental Security Income (SSI) benefits. These benefits are considered public benefits and are usually assumed to be only enough to provide for basic necessities.

I didn't know the IRS is the enforcement agency for FBAR. Could you link that.

[meechai]

I didn't know the IRS is the enforcement agency for FBAR. Could you link that.

I think a lot of folks assume that but FBAR is US Department of the Treasury

It has nothing to do with your tax returns/IRS

[thailiketoo]

I didn't know the IRS is the enforcement agency for FBAR. Could you link that.

I think a lot of folks assume that but FBAR is US Department of the Treasury

It has nothing to do with your tax returns/IRS

I know that and you know that but Neversure isn't sure.

[Langsuan Man]

OP, if you accountant did not know about the FBAR requirement, then maybe you should think about getting a new accountant

[JLCrab]

IRS? They've never even heard of it.

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Report-of-Foreign-Bank-and-Financial-Accounts-FBAR

Edited December 6, 2013 by JLCrab

[thailiketoo]

IRS? They've never even heard of it.

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Report-of-Foreign-Bank-and-Financial-Accounts-FBAR

Are you saying the IRS is the enforcement agency for FBAR?

[JLCrab]

IRS? They've never even heard of it.

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Report-of-Foreign-Bank-and-Financial-Accounts-FBAR

Are you saying the IRS is the enforcement agency for FBAR?

No -- I am saying that if do you file an FBAR report, IRS will definitely know about it.

[thailiketoo]

IRS? They've never even heard of it.

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Report-of-Foreign-Bank-and-Financial-Accounts-FBAR

Are you saying the IRS is the enforcement agency for FBAR?

No -- I am saying that if do you file an FBAR report, IRS will definitely know about it.

So what does the Treasury dept do if they find an unreported account in Thailand?

[JLCrab]

Of what the Treasury Department does I don't have the slightest idea. All I have said is that if you file an FBAR report, the IRS has that information and that may be one factor in subjecting your current and previous years' IRS returns to an audit. And the decision to audit is totally at IRS's discretion. So if you can avoid the need to file an FBAR it is in your better interest to do so.

[thailiketoo]

Of what the Treasury Department does I don't have the slightest idea. All I have said is that if you file an FBAR report, the IRS has that information and that may be one factor in subjecting your current and previous years' IRS returns to an audit. And the decision to audit is totally at IRS's discretion. So if you can avoid the need to file an FBAR it is in your better interest to do so.

Seems to me when there is a law there has to be a penalty for non compliance with the law. I never figured out what a US citizen non taxpayer has to fear from the Treasury Department. I would not imagine nothing,without due process and that seems rather unlikely in Thailand.

[bunnydrops]

Since foreign banks must report American accounts, there was a fear that some banks would just not give Americans accounts due to there being more paper work. So far I haven't heard of this happening.

More info

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2013/12/04/what-to-say-when-not-if-your-offshore-bank-asks-are-you-compliant-with-irs/

[thailiketoo]

Since foreign banks must report American accounts, there was a fear that some banks would just not give Americans accounts due to there being more paper work. So far I haven't heard of this happening.

More info

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2013/12/04/what-to-say-when-not-if-your-offshore-bank-asks-are-you-compliant-with-irs/

ANZ bank Singapore.

[JLCrab]

From a cursory read apparently they can work through a government (as per case in Switzerland) to freeze the account if there was willful non-compliance. But I never keep $US 10,000 in accounts ex-USA so this is all academic for me.

Edited December 6, 2013 by JLCrab

[phuketrichard]

one reason why i use the combo method

I make sure i never have more than 300,000 in my thai banks

[thailiketoo]

From a cursory read apparently they can work through a government (as per case in Switzerland) to freeze the account if there was willful non-compliance. But I never keep $US 10,000 in accounts ex-USA so this is all academic for me.

I just looked it up. The IRS is the enforcement agency for FBAR

[bitcoinbob]

fbar has always been around it was 50k now 10k the u.s. just never enforced it now they need cash so they are,. it is a felony offense not to file and be in violation. this is what they used on the 30,000 acccounts that were discovered in swiss bank account. if you are in violation you open up a can of worms for them to inspect deeper, then you need that second passport. just leave cash u.s. wire as you need so you are not on their radar.

[Jingthing]

Just do it. Grumble for sure, I know I do, but they've got us by the short hairs.

[streetlite]

I pay Federal and State taxes from my pesion checks enough to cover my SS and pension income. I transfer my money from my account in the USA to my Thailand bank account every month as a source of my income. If my Thai acount accumulates 300,000 ($10,000) do I then need to declare this as new income even though it's been taxed in the USA?