Learn a lesson from Mandela, Thai pacifists urge

[bkkfaranguy]

Two entirely different situations. Mandela was fighting against his people being enslaved based on the color of their skin. In Thailand the fight is among factions who have the opportunity of being in power and are fighting for the bigger piece of the pie.

Disagree there are many similarities, racism is not just the difference in ones skin color, in Thailand you have one side which is the rich elites (Yellows) who want to oppress the poorer working class Thais. They do there best to not give them the same oppotunites, they want to pass laws or policies that do not allow one to vote based on their education level etc. etc.! They do not want a true democratic government that is based on everyone one haveing the same opportunites and rights, many similarties.

[useronthenet]

Unfortunately education, (or the lack of it), and being denied the basic rights, (not only it's own country & knowing it's true history), but other countries & cultures around Thailand has made Thais quite ignorant of the outside world.

Knowledge is indeed power, one of which seems to be only accessible by those that can afford it. The gap between the 'haves' & 'have nots' have given rise to division, the likes of which I have never encountered until I visited this country. The poor are repressed, and kept enslaved by their poverty, and so it continues.

In a way Thailand is truly divided, and so this MUST change, and the wealth which only the previledged few have access to are clearly raping this country must be fairly distributed amongst it's people. No wonder demonstrations are taking place, and will eventually lead to civil war if this status prevails, and so a revolution will bring Thailand to the 21st century.

Edited December 7, 2013 by useronthenet

[silent]

Hardly a role model for Thais..

Saint Mandela's charges in full..

• One count under the South African Suppression of Communism Act No. 44 of 1950, charging that the accused committed acts calculated to further the achievement of the objective of communism;

• One count of contravening the South African Criminal Law Act (1953), which prohibits any person from soliciting or receiving any money or articles for the purpose of achieving organized defiance of laws and country; and

• Two counts of sabotage, committing or aiding or procuring the commission of the following acts:

1) The further recruitment of persons for instruction and training, both within and outside the Republic of South Africa, in:

(a) the preparation, manufacture and use of explosives-for the purpose of committing acts of violence and destruction in the aforesaid Republic, (the preparation and manufacture of explosives, according to evidence submitted, included 210,000 hand grenades, 48,000 anti-personnel mines, 1,500 time devices, 144 tons of ammonium nitrate, 21.6 tons of aluminum powder and a ton of black powder);

( the art of warfare, including guerrilla warfare, and military training generally for the purpose in the aforesaid Republic;

(ii) Further acts of violence and destruction, (this includes 193 counts of terrorism committed between 1961 and 1963);

(iii) Acts of guerrilla warfare in the aforesaid Republic;

(iv) Acts of assistance to military units of foreign countries when involving the aforesaid Republic;

(v) Acts of participation in a violent revolution in the aforesaid Republic, whereby the accused, injured, damaged, destroyed, rendered useless or unserviceable, put out of action, obstructed, with or endangered:

(a) the health or safety of the public;

( the maintenance of law and order;

© the supply and distribution of light, power or fuel;

(d) postal, telephone or telegraph installations;

(e) the free movement of traffic on land; and

(f) the property, movable or immovable, of other persons or of the state.

Source: The State v. Nelson Mandela et al, Supreme Court of South Africa, Transvaal Provincial Division, 1963-1964, Indictment.

Wait a second Kim. I thought they finally released him for that BS today......... yah they did http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/06/21796718-north-korea-deports-us-war-veteran-merrill-newman?lite What are you talking about?

Edited December 7, 2013 by silent

[Sunisalom]

Hardly a role model for Thais..

Saint Mandela's charges in full..

• One count under the South African Suppression of Communism Act No. 44 of 1950, charging that the accused committed acts calculated to further the achievement of the objective of communism;

• One count of contravening the South African Criminal Law Act (1953), which prohibits any person from soliciting or receiving any money or articles for the purpose of achieving organized defiance of laws and country; and

• Two counts of sabotage, committing or aiding or procuring the commission of the following acts:

1) The further recruitment of persons for instruction and training, both within and outside the Republic of South Africa, in:

(a) the preparation, manufacture and use of explosives-for the purpose of committing acts of violence and destruction in the aforesaid Republic, (the preparation and manufacture of explosives, according to evidence submitted, included 210,000 hand grenades, 48,000 anti-personnel mines, 1,500 time devices, 144 tons of ammonium nitrate, 21.6 tons of aluminum powder and a ton of black powder);

( the art of warfare, including guerrilla warfare, and military training generally for the purpose in the aforesaid Republic;

(ii) Further acts of violence and destruction, (this includes 193 counts of terrorism committed between 1961 and 1963);

(iii) Acts of guerrilla warfare in the aforesaid Republic;

(iv) Acts of assistance to military units of foreign countries when involving the aforesaid Republic;

(v) Acts of participation in a violent revolution in the aforesaid Republic, whereby the accused, injured, damaged, destroyed, rendered useless or unserviceable, put out of action, obstructed, with or endangered:

(a) the health or safety of the public;

( the maintenance of law and order;

© the supply and distribution of light, power or fuel;

(d) postal, telephone or telegraph installations;

(e) the free movement of traffic on land; and

(f) the property, movable or immovable, of other persons or of the state.

Source: The State v. Nelson Mandela et al, Supreme Court of South Africa, Transvaal Provincial Division, 1963-1964, Indictment.

I thought you were writing about Jatuporn until I saw the source at the end!

-mel.

[tim armstrong]

Lesson to Thais from Mandela's death - he never claimed he was perfect, but nonetheless was a truly great leader, and did understand forgiveness and integrity.

[DocN]

Hardly a role model for Thais..

Saint Mandela's charges in full..

• One count under the South African Suppression of Communism Act No. 44 of 1950, charging that the accused committed acts calculated to further the achievement of the objective of communism;

• One count of contravening the South African Criminal Law Act (1953), which prohibits any person from soliciting or receiving any money or articles for the purpose of achieving organized defiance of laws and country; and

• Two counts of sabotage, committing or aiding or procuring the commission of the following acts:

1) The further recruitment of persons for instruction and training, both within and outside the Republic of South Africa, in:

(a) the preparation, manufacture and use of explosives-for the purpose of committing acts of violence and destruction in the aforesaid Republic, (the preparation and manufacture of explosives, according to evidence submitted, included 210,000 hand grenades, 48,000 anti-personnel mines, 1,500 time devices, 144 tons of ammonium nitrate, 21.6 tons of aluminum powder and a ton of black powder);

( the art of warfare, including guerrilla warfare, and military training generally for the purpose in the aforesaid Republic;

(ii) Further acts of violence and destruction, (this includes 193 counts of terrorism committed between 1961 and 1963);

(iii) Acts of guerrilla warfare in the aforesaid Republic;

(iv) Acts of assistance to military units of foreign countries when involving the aforesaid Republic;

(v) Acts of participation in a violent revolution in the aforesaid Republic, whereby the accused, injured, damaged, destroyed, rendered useless or unserviceable, put out of action, obstructed, with or endangered:

(a) the health or safety of the public;

( the maintenance of law and order;

© the supply and distribution of light, power or fuel;

(d) postal, telephone or telegraph installations;

(e) the free movement of traffic on land; and

(f) the property, movable or immovable, of other persons or of the state.

Source: The State v. Nelson Mandela et al, Supreme Court of South Africa, Transvaal Provincial Division, 1963-1964, Indictment.

You are seriously quoting the Supreme Court of fascist country, a racist country against a black man, who was fighting for equal rights...to discredit that man?

[Thailand]

As great a man as he turned out to be he was a founder member of the ANC's death squad.

Death squad ? BS.

They hadn't been targeting people. They sabotaged infrastructure. They fought against a terrible regime.

Or should I say, they fought against a terrorist regime.

Would have saved thousands of lives if the US, GB, France and other global players had supported the ANC

instead of the apartheid regime.

Just some of the results of sabotaging infrastructure.

"Landmark events in MK's military activity inside South Africa consisted of actions designed to intimidate the ruling power. In 1983, the Church Street bomb was detonated in Pretoria near the South African Air Force Headquarters, resulting in 19 deaths and 217 injuries. During the next 10 years, a series of bombings occurred in South Africa, conducted mainly by the military wing of the African National Congress.

In the Amanzimtoti bomb on the Natal South Coast in 1985, five civilians were killed and 40 were injured when MK cadre Andrew Sibusiso Zondo detonated an explosive in a rubbish bin at a shopping centre killing five people, including three children, shortly before Christmas. In a submission to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission (TRC), the ANC stated that Zondo acted on orders after a recent SADF raid in Lesotho.[9]

A bomb was detonated in a bar on the Durban beach-front in 1986, killing three civilians and injuring 69. Robert McBride received the death penalty for this bombing which became known as the "Magoo's Bar bombing". Although the subsequent Truth and Reconciliation Committee called the bombing a "gross violation of human rights",[10] McBride received amnesty and became a senior police officer."

[phoenixbird]

As great a man as he turned out to be he was a founder member of the ANC's death squad.

 

Death squad ? BS.

They hadn't been targeting people. They sabotaged infrastructure. They fought against a terrible regime.

Or should I say, they fought against a terrorist regime.

Would have saved thousands of lives if the US, GB, France and other global players had supported the ANC

instead of the apartheid regime.

 

Just some of the results of sabotaging infrastructure.

"Landmark events in MK's military activity inside South Africa consisted of actions designed to intimidate the ruling power. In 1983, the Church Street bomb was detonated in Pretoria near the South African Air Force Headquarters, resulting in 19 deaths and 217 injuries. During the next 10 years, a series of bombings occurred in South Africa, conducted mainly by the military wing of the African National Congress.

In the Amanzimtoti bomb on the Natal South Coast in 1985, five civilians were killed and 40 were injured when MK cadre Andrew Sibusiso Zondo detonated an explosive in a rubbish bin at a shopping centre killing five people, including three children, shortly before Christmas. In a submission to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission (TRC), the ANC stated that Zondo acted on orders after a recent SADF raid in Lesotho.[9]

A bomb was detonated in a bar on the Durban beach-front in 1986, killing three civilians and injuring 69. Robert McBride received the death penalty for this bombing which became known as the "Magoo's Bar bombing". Although the subsequent Truth and Reconciliation Committee called the bombing a "gross violation of human rights",[10] McBride received amnesty and became a senior police officer."

tut, tut, it amazes me that some people havent got a clue about the dirty war, assassinations, death squads that was waged by the apartheid regime on south africans that protested that racist apartheid regime. If u dont have the foggiest idea, then dont post hogwash !

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[phoenixbird]

As great a man as he turned out to be he was a founder member of the ANC's death squad.

Utter rubbish! At least we cant take the cooments on this public forum serious! Leave your crazy rants to yourself....

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[bigbamboo]

Hardly a role model for Thais..

Saint Mandela's charges in full..

• One count under the South African Suppression of Communism Act No. 44 of 1950, charging that the accused committed acts calculated to further the achievement of the objective of communism;

• One count of contravening the South African Criminal Law Act (1953), which prohibits any person from soliciting or receiving any money or articles for the purpose of achieving organized defiance of laws and country; and

• Two counts of sabotage, committing or aiding or procuring the commission of the following acts:

1) The further recruitment of persons for instruction and training, both within and outside the Republic of South Africa, in:

(a) the preparation, manufacture and use of explosives-for the purpose of committing acts of violence and destruction in the aforesaid Republic, (the preparation and manufacture of explosives, according to evidence submitted, included 210,000 hand grenades, 48,000 anti-personnel mines, 1,500 time devices, 144 tons of ammonium nitrate, 21.6 tons of aluminum powder and a ton of black powder);

( the art of warfare, including guerrilla warfare, and military training generally for the purpose in the aforesaid Republic;

(ii) Further acts of violence and destruction, (this includes 193 counts of terrorism committed between 1961 and 1963);

(iii) Acts of guerrilla warfare in the aforesaid Republic;

(iv) Acts of assistance to military units of foreign countries when involving the aforesaid Republic;

(v) Acts of participation in a violent revolution in the aforesaid Republic, whereby the accused, injured, damaged, destroyed, rendered useless or unserviceable, put out of action, obstructed, with or endangered:

(a) the health or safety of the public;

( the maintenance of law and order;

© the supply and distribution of light, power or fuel;

(d) postal, telephone or telegraph installations;

(e) the free movement of traffic on land; and

(f) the property, movable or immovable, of other persons or of the state.

Source: The State v. Nelson Mandela et al, Supreme Court of South Africa, Transvaal Provincial Division, 1963-1964, Indictment.

You are seriously quoting the Supreme Court of fascist country, a racist country against a black man, who was fighting for equal rights...to discredit that man?

They were a fair minded bunch in those days! Remind me of the joke about the KKK man who went to get a job in a mine in apartheid South Africa because no one else would employ him. The boss looked him up and down and said, "We 'ave terrible trouble 'ere with the blicks so I need to know you are the right mun for the job. Take this gun and go and shoot six blicks..... and then a rabbit."

The KKK man looked puzzled, then asked "Why do I have to shoot the rabbit?

The boss laughed. "Hey.......you got the job!"

[khunken]

This seems to have turned into a vilify Mandela thread.

No mention of the Sharpville Massacre. One of the most oppressive regimes of the 20th century, supported by the US, UK, Australia, Israel and others who still - to this day - think that trade is more important than human rights.

Of course Mandela wasn't perfect but he was responsible for far fewer acts of terror in comparison to the Apartheid regime. Will Thailand learn from him? I doubt it as any local person fighting for human rights here is either kidnapped & murdered or assassinated. Lawlessness predominates, right from the current government down.

[Thailand]

As great a man as he turned out to be he was a founder member of the ANC's death squad.

Utter rubbish! At least we cant take the cooments on this public forum serious! Leave your crazy rants to yourself....

Sent from my GT-P3100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Really don't know much do you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umkhonto_we_Sizwe

[Thailand]

As great a man as he turned out to be he was a founder member of the ANC's death squad.

Death squad ? BS.

They hadn't been targeting people. They sabotaged infrastructure. They fought against a terrible regime.

Or should I say, they fought against a terrorist regime.

Would have saved thousands of lives if the US, GB, France and other global players had supported the ANC

instead of the apartheid regime.

Just some of the results of sabotaging infrastructure.

"Landmark events in MK's military activity inside South Africa consisted of actions designed to intimidate the ruling power. In 1983, the Church Street bomb was detonated in Pretoria near the South African Air Force Headquarters, resulting in 19 deaths and 217 injuries. During the next 10 years, a series of bombings occurred in South Africa, conducted mainly by the military wing of the African National Congress.

In the Amanzimtoti bomb on the Natal South Coast in 1985, five civilians were killed and 40 were injured when MK cadre Andrew Sibusiso Zondo detonated an explosive in a rubbish bin at a shopping centre killing five people, including three children, shortly before Christmas. In a submission to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission (TRC), the ANC stated that Zondo acted on orders after a recent SADF raid in Lesotho.[9]

A bomb was detonated in a bar on the Durban beach-front in 1986, killing three civilians and injuring 69. Robert McBride received the death penalty for this bombing which became known as the "Magoo's Bar bombing". Although the subsequent Truth and Reconciliation Committee called the bombing a "gross violation of human rights",[10] McBride received amnesty and became a senior police officer."

tut, tut, it amazes me that some people havent got a clue about the dirty war, assassinations, death squads that was waged by the apartheid regime on south africans that protested that racist apartheid regime. If u dont have the foggiest idea, then dont post hogwash !

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umkhonto_we_Sizwe

[phoenixbird]

Foeitog! Foeitog! Translate that. Ur probably the type that sits on the Net and trawl forums like this. If you've never been involve in the Struggle or if you are an expat that fled SA, then my response would be an exercise in futility. At worse your comments about SA and our recent history is lacking to the extreme! I suggest you read more scholarly articles on SA, rather than copying and pasting Wikipedkia links. Any scholar will tell you that Wikipedia is not a moderated or peer scientically peer reviewed reference!

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[Thailand]

Foeitog! Foeitog! Translate that. Ur probably the type that sits on the Net and trawl forums like this. If you've never been involve in the Struggle or if you are an expat that fled SA, then my response would be an exercise in futility. At worse your comments about SA and our recent history is lacking to the extreme! I suggest you read more scholarly articles on SA, rather than copying and pasting Wikipedkia links. Any scholar will tell you that Wikipedia is not a moderated or peer scientically peer reviewed reference!

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I am sorry you are becoming a bit of a boer.

[SABloke]

Foeitog! Foeitog! Translate that. Ur probably the type that sits on the Net and trawl forums like this. If you've never been involve in the Struggle or if you are an expat that fled SA, then my response would be an exercise in futility. At worse your comments about SA and our recent history is lacking to the extreme! I suggest you read more scholarly articles on SA, rather than copying and pasting Wikipedkia links. Any scholar will tell you that Wikipedia is not a moderated or peer scientically peer reviewed reference!

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I think he's just a poes Oh did I spell 'poet' wrong..oh well

[khunken]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umkhonto_we_Sizwe

And it came about because of the Sharpville massacre. Mandela's response:

Motivation for formation of the MK

In 1961, MK published a manifesto entitled "Umkhonto we Sizwe (Military wing of the African National Congress): We are at War!

"At the beginning of June 1961, after a long and anxious assessment of the South African situation, I, and some colleagues, came to the conclusion that as violence in this country was inevitable, it would be unrealistic and wrong for African leaders to continue preaching peace and non-violence at a time when the government met our peaceful demands with force.

This conclusion was not easily arrived at. It was only when all else had failed, when all channels of peaceful protest had been barred to us, that the decision was made to embark on violent forms of political struggle, and to form Umkhonto we Sizwe. We did so not because we desired such a course, but solely because the government had left us with no other choice. In the Manifesto of Umkhonto published on 16 December 1961, which is exhibit AD, we said:

'The time comes in the life of any nation when there remain only two choices – submit or fight. That time has now come to South Africa. We shall not submit and we have no choice but to hit back by all means in our power in defence of our people, our future, and our freedom.'

Firstly, we believed that as a result of Government policy, violence by the African people had become inevitable, and that unless responsible leadership was given to canalise and control the feelings of our people, there would be outbreaks of terrorism which would produce an intensity of bitterness and hostility between the various races of this country which is not produced even by war. Secondly, we felt that without violence there would be no way open to the African people to succeed in their struggle against the principle of white supremacy. All lawful modes of expressing opposition to this principle had been closed by legislation, and we were placed in a position in which we had either to accept a permanent state of inferiority, or take over the Government. We chose to defy the law. We first broke the law in a way which avoided any recourse to violence; when this form was legislated against, and then the Government resorted to a show of force to crush opposition to its policies, only then did we decide to answer with violence."

Totally justified except to white supremacists.

[Thailand]

Foeitog! Foeitog! Translate that. Ur probably the type that sits on the Net and trawl forums like this. If you've never been involve in the Struggle or if you are an expat that fled SA, then my response would be an exercise in futility. At worse your comments about SA and our recent history is lacking to the extreme! I suggest you read more scholarly articles on SA, rather than copying and pasting Wikipedkia links. Any scholar will tell you that Wikipedia is not a moderated or peer scientically peer reviewed reference!

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I think he's just a poes Oh did I spell 'poet' wrong..oh well

They are useful I believe.

Just to clarify, from my first post. I think Mandela was a great man, particularly in his later years, but to try to propose that he was not involved in violence ,murder etc to help achieve the ANC's objectives then you simply have your head stuck in the sand.

[Scott]

A post in a foreign language has been deleted.

[Soutpeel]

Hardly a role model for Thais..

Saint Mandela's charges in full..

• One count under the South African Suppression of Communism Act No. 44 of 1950, charging that the accused committed acts calculated to further the achievement of the objective of communism;

• One count of contravening the South African Criminal Law Act (1953), which prohibits any person from soliciting or receiving any money or articles for the purpose of achieving organized defiance of laws and country; and

• Two counts of sabotage, committing or aiding or procuring the commission of the following acts:

1) The further recruitment of persons for instruction and training, both within and outside the Republic of South Africa, in:

(a) the preparation, manufacture and use of explosives-for the purpose of committing acts of violence and destruction in the aforesaid Republic, (the preparation and manufacture of explosives, according to evidence submitted, included 210,000 hand grenades, 48,000 anti-personnel mines, 1,500 time devices, 144 tons of ammonium nitrate, 21.6 tons of aluminum powder and a ton of black powder);

( the art of warfare, including guerrilla warfare, and military training generally for the purpose in the aforesaid Republic;

(ii) Further acts of violence and destruction, (this includes 193 counts of terrorism committed between 1961 and 1963);

(iii) Acts of guerrilla warfare in the aforesaid Republic;

(iv) Acts of assistance to military units of foreign countries when involving the aforesaid Republic;

(v) Acts of participation in a violent revolution in the aforesaid Republic, whereby the accused, injured, damaged, destroyed, rendered useless or unserviceable, put out of action, obstructed, with or endangered:

(a) the health or safety of the public;

( the maintenance of law and order;

© the supply and distribution of light, power or fuel;

(d) postal, telephone or telegraph installations;

(e) the free movement of traffic on land; and

(f) the property, movable or immovable, of other persons or of the state.

Source: The State v. Nelson Mandela et al, Supreme Court of South Africa, Transvaal Provincial Division, 1963-1964, Indictment.

You are seriously quoting the Supreme Court of fascist country, a racist country against a black man, who was fighting for equal rights...to discredit that man?  

Question for you, how come Mandela was on the US terrorist watchlist as late as 2008 ?

So it would seem the US considered him a terrorist as well...

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[DocN]

Hardly a role model for Thais..

Saint Mandela's charges in full..

• One count under the South African Suppression of Communism Act No. 44 of 1950, charging that the accused committed acts calculated to further the achievement of the objective of communism;

• One count of contravening the South African Criminal Law Act (1953), which prohibits any person from soliciting or receiving any money or articles for the purpose of achieving organized defiance of laws and country; and

• Two counts of sabotage, committing or aiding or procuring the commission of the following acts:

1) The further recruitment of persons for instruction and training, both within and outside the Republic of South Africa, in:

(a) the preparation, manufacture and use of explosives-for the purpose of committing acts of violence and destruction in the aforesaid Republic, (the preparation and manufacture of explosives, according to evidence submitted, included 210,000 hand grenades, 48,000 anti-personnel mines, 1,500 time devices, 144 tons of ammonium nitrate, 21.6 tons of aluminum powder and a ton of black powder);

( the art of warfare, including guerrilla warfare, and military training generally for the purpose in the aforesaid Republic;

(ii) Further acts of violence and destruction, (this includes 193 counts of terrorism committed between 1961 and 1963);

(iii) Acts of guerrilla warfare in the aforesaid Republic;

(iv) Acts of assistance to military units of foreign countries when involving the aforesaid Republic;

(v) Acts of participation in a violent revolution in the aforesaid Republic, whereby the accused, injured, damaged, destroyed, rendered useless or unserviceable, put out of action, obstructed, with or endangered:

(a) the health or safety of the public;

( the maintenance of law and order;

© the supply and distribution of light, power or fuel;

(d) postal, telephone or telegraph installations;

(e) the free movement of traffic on land; and

(f) the property, movable or immovable, of other persons or of the state.

Source: The State v. Nelson Mandela et al, Supreme Court of South Africa, Transvaal Provincial Division, 1963-1964, Indictment.

You are seriously quoting the Supreme Court of fascist country, a racist country against a black man, who was fighting for equal rights...to discredit that man?

Question for you, how come Mandela was on the US terrorist watchlist as late as 2008 ?

So it would seem the US considered him a terrorist as well...

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The USA has basically the whole world on a watchlist, right now, as they spy on basically everyone they want.

Apart (sic!) from that, the USA are paranoid.

[tingtongteesood]

Those saying bad things about Mandela's past, I don't know what really happened back then, I wasn't there and as we all know only too well, history is written by the winners and his jailers probably made it sound a lot more than it really was. All I can speak of with any authority is what I have seen him do in the 20 years or so since he left prison and in my book he is a top man. Judge a man by his legacy, see his life as a whole instead of holding a few acts from 60 years ago against him. I admit Declerk did a lot of good things too and there are of course many others worthy of praise. I wish there were more. I would rather live under the rule of Mandela than almost any other politician I can think of in the world today, all world leaders now seem to be total crap ! At least Mandela tried hard to serve his country with honour and integrity...1 Mandela is worth more than every politician in Thailand of the last 20 years combined...

Edited December 7, 2013 by tingtongteesood

[Soutpeel]

Those saying bad things about Mandela's past, I don't know what really happened back then, I wasn't there and as we all know only too well, history is written by the winners and his jailers probably made it sound a lot more than it really was. All I can speak of with any authority is what I have seen him do in the 20 years or so since he left prison and in my book he is a top man. Judge a man by his legacy, see his life as a whole instead of holding a few acts from 60 years ago against him. I admit Declerk did a lot of good things too and there are of course many others worthy of praise. I wish there were more. I would rather live under the rule of Mandela than almost any other politician I can think of in the world today, all world leaders now seem to be total crap ! At least Mandela tried hard to serve his country with honour and integrity...1 Mandela is worth more than every politician in Thailand of the last 20 years combined...

Using the rational in your post one could argue that our man in dubai has only committed a few acts as well LOL and TV finest want to hang draw and quarter the poor misunderstood chap

I do agree with the sentiment of living under Mandela rule but one suspects you may not like living under the rule of the legacy he has left behind ie the ANC lot currently in power, and very similar to Thailand in the corruption stakes one must realise in SA all that has really happened is a white elite has been replaced by a black elite and people who had nothing under the national party still have nothing under the ANC

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[Thesis]

Learn a lesson from Mandela?? LOL are you guys serious?

Nelson Mandela was a terrorist and a co-founder of a terrorist group called the co-founder of Umkhonto we Sizwe (MK). They were an armed group that believed in violence and killing is necessary to liberate your homeland and people.

They used terrorism as a means to fulfill their agenda, were responsible for many attacks which many civilians and military personel died.

Terrorists shouldn't be sponsored even if they were black.

[noitom]

There is a very gray line between a terrorist and a freedom fighter.

Mandela a terrorist? Because he was fighting Apartheid?

So you call the Jewish Resistance in WW2 Germany terrorists, too!?

[Semeya]

We're aware... how important it is to maintain your racist attitudes.....knowing you can no longer present the ideology been part of the human race. There's...no white Jesus...Adam & Eve was not the first on earth and Napoleon is still upset about the pyramids.

Have you seen the white man with hair like wool, skin like bronze? Have you ever seen white dirt? Have you heard of the

Aboriginals? Do you think that some of us aren't aware, of the injection giving to African to prevent aides that causes aides?. Do you think we aren't aware that Africans are trading their diamonds, to pay for the medications that causes aides .Do you think we have forgotten how many Africans in American where given small pocks infections. Do you think we aren't aware of your prisons system, testing black men going to prisons for aides, but not tested when released. Do you think some of us aren't aware of young black men been affected with aid, so that they can go back to infect their communities.

We overstand the teachings of Marcus Garvey" Africa for the Africans at home and aboard" and we love and respect Mandela.

We know..... who is the real terrorist and the devil is. Thailand will understand soon......if they aren't already...LOL

Edited December 8, 2013 by Semeya

[zyphodb]

Two entirely different situations. Mandela was fighting against his people being enslaved based on the color of their skin. In Thailand the fight is among factions who have the opportunity of being in power and are fighting for the bigger piece of the pie.

Most Thai's don't even know where South Africa is - let alone Mandela !

Mandela had a good vision and was a remarkable man - however his legacy and vision is not been carried forward in South Africa - it's a disaster country !!

Sad to sad I've yet to meet any Thai who's heard of him or South Africa come to that, Thais aren't encouraged to learn about anywhere else than Thailand, it might give them ideas above their station.

[Mudcrab]

We're aware... how important it is to maintain your racist attitudes.....knowing you can no longer present the ideology been part of the human race. There's...no white Jesus...Adam & Eve was not the first on earth and Napoleon is still upset about the pyramids.

Have you seen the white man with hair like wool, skin like bronze? Have you ever seen white dirt? Have you heard of the

Aboriginals? Do you think that some of us aren't aware, of the injection giving to African to prevent aides that causes aides?. Do you think we aren't aware that Africans are trading their diamonds, to pay for the medications that causes aides .Do you think we have forgotten how many Africans in American where given small pocks infections. Do you think we aren't aware of your prisons system, testing black men going to prisons for aides, but not tested when released. Do you think some of us aren't aware of young black men been affected with aid, so that they can go back to infect their communities.

We overstand the teachings of Marcus Garvey" Africa for the Africans at home and aboard" and we love and respect Mandela.

We know..... who is the real terrorist and the devil is. Thailand will understand soon......if they aren't already...LOL

Interesting questions you pose?

How about some answers from verified sources?