Here in the Lake district in the UK the locals get some things cheaper.

Its the same all over the world. If you don't like it go somewhere else.

Honestly, most people I come across are honest and I make a point to be honest with them. However, you always have to be looking when dealing with people you don't know. My favorite (happened in Thai language):

Me: How much are the watermelons?

Vendor: It's called Daeng Mo

Me: Yeah, I know...how much is this one?

Vendor: It's called daeng mo

Me: I know the word, but how much is it?

....confused look, gears churning, just as they had been the whole time....he was trying to size me up as he was talking to me. I just told him "fine....other people sell watermelons as well" and walked away.

Always be ready to walk away, don't give them time to think, and be polite. I walked down the way for about 30 seconds and someone had watermelons of the same size with marked prices. PURCHASE. I see the guy all the time at the market and he knows that I am the "one that got away" as he sells a variety of products and I will not buy a single one of them.

This happens to me all the time. I ask: thao rai krab? annee sappalot......chai krabhom, thao rai krab? annee sappalot wan.... then i know i 'm being fooled and leave the place. I don't understand that trick of them, why they don't want to tell the price when i ask them?

It is the same when i buy plants, they won't tell the price but instead tell me what plant it is, from now on i walk away after asking it 1 time only. They are lucky anyway when i ask for the price because my rule is never ask the price, let them make a pricetag.

I noticed they do that especially for more expensive items in their shop. Fruitshops always forget to pricetag the Namdocmai mango's. The fishstand always forgets to price the big seafish (most expensive item in the shop). That fish they sell with the guts and all, so if you buy 1 kg of grouper you get the guts with it. If you order fillet then they weigh 1 kg and then make a fillet out of it but you still paid for the guts as well. I m so tired of that so i only buy in Foodland if i am near them.

But even there they cheat, i bought many kg of meat there including a kg of chicken-thighs. It was in promotion for something like 90 baht. When i paid at the cashier i saw 135 baht on the screen, so i examined the bag and it was 1 kg. I walked back to the butcher and showed him the pricetag, he asked 135 while it should be 90. I ordered him to make a new pricetag which he did. Still 135 baht. I gave him the chicken back and told him i don't want any chicken, mai au kai krab (and don't cheat me in english). Then he came with me to the cashier and told her to get it off my bill. What a hassle but next time he won't cheat me again or i go to the manager as well.

Anyway don't let them cheat you! You have to check the Thai all the time. Also there are good Thai, i remember one day i had to pay 100 on the market and accidently i gave 1000 and walked away. The lady called me back and gave me the 900 change.

Also when you hire company's to do services to your house or car, ALWAYS check them. I can write 10 pages here how they cheated me all the time but they also do that to my Thai neighbours. They have no idea what quality is and if they damage something in your house then you pay for it. They have never heard of an insurance for that.

Ok enough Thai bashing for today.

I learned something new from your post - mai au kai krab - And I have been looking for what phrase to use in this situation occurs, but up till now I had no point of context apart from mai au (no want) - So thanks for the wisdom to help me now relate better to the cheating context using " mai au kai krab" and finding the key word "kai" - Good work here.

when i lived in phuket i had a table i wanted to sell, a lot of farang living near me so i put it out of the front of my house with "for sale 300 baht farang 500 baht thai i was told by thai people living near me i should take the sighn down as it might offend thai people and i might get hurt

Honestly, most people I come across are honest and I make a point to be honest with them. However, you always have to be looking when dealing with people you don't know. My favorite (happened in Thai language):

Me: How much are the watermelons?

Vendor: It's called Daeng Mo

Me: Yeah, I know...how much is this one?

Vendor: It's called daeng mo

Me: I know the word, but how much is it?

....confused look, gears churning, just as they had been the whole time....he was trying to size me up as he was talking to me. I just told him "fine....other people sell watermelons as well" and walked away.

Always be ready to walk away, don't give them time to think, and be polite. I walked down the way for about 30 seconds and someone had watermelons of the same size with marked prices. PURCHASE. I see the guy all the time at the market and he knows that I am the "one that got away" as he sells a variety of products and I will not buy a single one of them.

This happens to me all the time. I ask: thao rai krab? annee sappalot......chai krabhom, thao rai krab? annee sappalot wan.... then i know i 'm being fooled and leave the place. I don't understand that trick of them, why they don't want to tell the price when i ask them?

It is the same when i buy plants, they won't tell the price but instead tell me what plant it is, from now on i walk away after asking it 1 time only. They are lucky anyway when i ask for the price because my rule is never ask the price, let them make a pricetag.

I noticed they do that especially for more expensive items in their shop. Fruitshops always forget to pricetag the Namdocmai mango's. The fishstand always forgets to price the big seafish (most expensive item in the shop). That fish they sell with the guts and all, so if you buy 1 kg of grouper you get the guts with it. If you order fillet then they weigh 1 kg and then make a fillet out of it but you still paid for the guts as well. I m so tired of that so i only buy in Foodland if i am near them.

But even there they cheat, i bought many kg of meat there including a kg of chicken-thighs. It was in promotion for something like 90 baht. When i paid at the cashier i saw 135 baht on the screen, so i examined the bag and it was 1 kg. I walked back to the butcher and showed him the pricetag, he asked 135 while it should be 90. I ordered him to make a new pricetag which he did. Still 135 baht. I gave him the chicken back and told him i don't want any chicken, mai au kai krab (and don't cheat me in english). Then he came with me to the cashier and told her to get it off my bill. What a hassle but next time he won't cheat me again or i go to the manager as well.

Anyway don't let them cheat you! You have to check the Thai all the time. Also there are good Thai, i remember one day i had to pay 100 on the market and accidently i gave 1000 and walked away. The lady called me back and gave me the 900 change.

Also when you hire company's to do services to your house or car, ALWAYS check them. I can write 10 pages here how they cheated me all the time but they also do that to my Thai neighbours. They have no idea what quality is and if they damage something in your house then you pay for it. They have never heard of an insurance for that.

Ok enough Thai bashing for today.

I learned something new from your post - mai au kai krab - And I have been looking for what phrase to use in this situation occurs, but up till now I had no point of context apart from mai au (no want) - So thanks for the wisdom to help me now relate better to the cheating context using " mai au kai krab" and finding the key word "kai" - Good work here.

what word? Kai or Gai (ไก่) 'chicken'. You get ripped off for chicken a lot then?

when i lived in phuket i had a table i wanted to sell, a lot of farang living near me so i put it out of the front of my house with "for sale 300 baht farang 500 baht thai i was told by thai people living near me i should take the sighn down as it might offend thai people and i might get hurt

Perfect example - Of the answer to if it was dual pricing other way around - What would be the reaction?

when i lived in phuket i had a table i wanted to sell, a lot of farang living near me so i put it out of the front of my house with "for sale 300 baht farang 500 baht thai i was told by thai people living near me i should take the sighn down as it might offend thai people and i might get hurt

Perfect example - Of the answer to if it was dual pricing other way around - What would be the reaction?

It will not go well, 5555.

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Why are you guys having a fit on this double pricing? I don't get it. I am sorry but I see it as a privilege of being Thai to be able to pay less than foreigners. If you are not Thai, you can expect to be charged more when you make your purchase. I would suggest before buying anything, you should bargain for a lower price especially with the street vendors. You can also have a Thai person making a purchase for you. It is how Thais do their business, and it does not seem to be hurting them since you guys keep coming back Thailand.

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To the OP.

Give me the courage to change the things I can.

Give me the serenity to accept the things I can't.

Give me the wisdom to know the difference.

I tried to buy some sliced yellow mango from a stall at the MaeJo Ag fair, 60bht ..... I don't think so.

Went to the next stall and paid 20bht.

And that sums it up.If you think you are being ripped off you do not have to go far to find what you think is a fair price to both partys. I love that Mango

Didn't the fruit cart have some sort of pricing cards displayed?

Knowing how to read Thai numbers is a huge advantage for us all. I would recommend it. When I mention the prices, they all freak out and do not argue with me.

Actually that makes good sense and worth learning these for sure - Good input!

I am assuming that you are not saying that there is a different system of numbers and you are just referring to the written word, used to spell the number in Thai?

For example: Nine = เก้า

Thai numerals AND their respective written from. But most vendors use the numerals. Easier to learn how to read those.

I am pretty sure Thais do not really care. As a Farang, you are expected to be automatically rich by most here...

However, I very seldom come across special Farang pricing here - unless I go to the tourist areas. But even there my GF will be ripped off.

Edited December 7, 201312 yr by khunpa

In Vietnam double-pricing is more rampant than Thailand...

and in the west it's more extreme (quintuple pricing for foreigners for medical services, education, etc), at least in Thailand farangs earn more for equivalent jobs.

when i lived in phuket i had a table i wanted to sell, a lot of farang living near me so i put it out of the front of my house with "for sale 300 baht farang 500 baht thai i was told by thai people living near me i should take the sighn down as it might offend thai people and i might get hurt

Perfect example - Of the answer to if it was dual pricing other way around - What would be the reaction?

Perfect example indeed! Happens all the time. Don't tell me you don't know. How much money do you have to have in the bank and job and reasons to go back to your country to get a travel visa to come to Thailand? How much money and job and reasons does a Thai need to get a visa to your country?

Edited December 8, 201312 yr by thailiketoo

The take-home messages of these endless posts whining about double-pricing is how little the complainers know about economics where double-pricing goes by the name "price discrimination." Basically vendors will always charge whatever they think buyers will pay. In the US some types of discrimination are against the law, such as that based on race, religion, etc., but other than on those grounds price discrimination is legal and widely practiced, for example, (taken from the US)

1. college tuition - not everyone pays the same. Reductions may be based on academic, athletic, musical or other performance, geographical origin, college attended by parents, etc. Complaints are sometimes heard above admissions preferences based on race (but never such preferences based on alumni status of parents), but there are no complaints about price discrimination.

2. airplane tickets - the person sitting next to you probably did not pay the same as you. Airlines go to great lengths to charge businesses more than individuals to the point of charging more for a round-trip if it did not include a Saturday stay-over since that is a reliable indicator of a business trip. There were no voices raised in outrage against this unfairness that I recall.

3. medical services - if you don't have an insurance company to negotiate rates for you the hospitals and providers will gouge you without pity. The discrimination starts with $1.50 for an aspirin tablet that costs less that 10% of that at even a retail price. $500 for a single stitch in stitching a wound. Complaints about this discriminatory practice are growing, but no attempt has yet been made to make it illegal in the US.

4. wedding services - when my wife made a appointment with her hairdresser prior to the wedding in the US the price of a hairdo suddenly jumped from $60 to $400. Same service, but people are willing to pay more for weddings. (I got the hairdo for $60 by threatening to go elsewhere.) Nearly every service provided at a wedding costs much more than the same service for any other occasion.

The cases of price discrimination in Thailand may appear to be based on race, but really it's based on the (correct) expectation that foreigners have more money to spend. I usually try to pay the least for anything that I can, including in Thailand. Sometimes I have to pay more than the locals, but then it is almost always much cheaper than in the US so I figure I am still coming out ahead. If that were not the case in a serious way I would leave Thailand. The advantage I enjoy because of the still favorable valuation of the dollar is not one I earned myself.

So, my advice to those expats who feel hard done by is to look around at how pricing actually works around the world and try to develop a perspective a little larger than your own self-interest.

Mmmmm, well, is it right , of course not, does it happen evetywhere, absolutely not, it is a fact of life here, it does happen, you can only vote with your feet and if you encounter it, walk away. I doubt it will ever changd in our lifetime.

Some Thais, particularly in certain situations will charge as much as they think they can get away with, to Thai or Ferang, its just their nature, and greed.

I have come across far more honest Thais than greedy ones, but I do agree that double pricing is wrong.

I dont know what it is but i never ever get charged more ,maybe its because i look as if i am a local living here in Pattaya ,at entertainment venues just show my driving licence and get Thai price ,only once been charged farang price and that was on the yellow sumbmarine ,but as it was our sons birthday treat could hardly walk away.

is it because you look like a tourist op?

Yup you are probably right - I knew I should have hidden my maps, stopped taking pics of the food I was eating and stopped asking every tuc tuc driver how much it costs to go to Central world.

Pattaya I feel, (but I do not really know for sure) works in a non dual pricing only if you do know the systems and how they should operate. I remember the first time I went to Pattaya and I got out the songthaew and asked how much - He said 20Baht (because I asked - He knew I didn't know and he then knew that there was an opportunity for gain) - Yep its only 10 Baht (Beach rd) and then also 6 weeks ago I took the songthaew from bus station to walking street - Everyone got off and I was the last - Chinese girl was charged 30 Baht and the same for two English guys - I refused to pay the inflated price. We only got back to the correct price when I pointed to the local bobby across the road indicating we ask him what the fixed price was.

But obviously when you know your way around then you don't walk into these tourist traps since you know they are there i.e now when I now get to the bus station in Pattaya I walk over the road and pay my10 Baht to a passing songthaew without the waiting and herding that goes on at the bus terminal for tourists.

That's also what I do, then get another bus from the Dolphin roundabout, 20 Baht all in. Probably a lot more if you get a baht bus in the bus station.

Singapore has a better system for offering different rates for hotels: they promote the discount for citizens AND residents. It makes sense to discount to fill vacant rooms and does so in a way that doesn't discriminate..

Airfares are more complicated: why does Thai airways charge 20% more for tickets issued in Australia than those ex Thailand? Eg, BKK-SYD-BKK is 20% lower than the reverse ( there might be some logic to it but nothing to do with tax as far as I know). Qantas does a similar thing.

Same old, same old.

In a nice world free from government poking its nose into every aspect of our lives any seller would be free to offer their property to another person at any price they care to choose for any reason whatsoever. The buyer can negotiate and/or walk away. If a seller say, charges people with dark skin more then they are likely to lose business and suffer lost sales. Here in Thailand farangs are entitled to walk away when confronted with higher prices.

But different groups of people have different elasticities of demand and farangs here are likely to have more money and hence more likely to accept a higher price. Fruit sellers know this and overall make more profit from this strategy, it is nothing to do with racism but even if it is it should be up to them.

Certain businesses offer child discounts, they do not do this because they like children or feel sorry for parents, they do this to maximise profits. A child on an airplane takes a seat the same as me yet will often pay 25% or more less for the ticket but we don't hear people moaning endlessly about this. Most people don't gripe when night clubs provide free entry for ladies, the ladies like it and the men appreciate the greater quantity of ladies the policy encourages but again the night club owner does not hate men he simply wants to maximise profits.

Yet a fruit seller who prices her fruit differently to a farang likely on 100,000bt a month to a lady on 10,000bt is seen as racist.

price discrimination is fair, economically efficient and really quite beautiful

Racism/discrimination should not be accepted anywhere, in any form.

Oh well, the subject has been done to death, funeralised, buried, dug up, beaten to a pulp, cremated and the ashes resurrected so many times, but for what it's worth here's my tuppence worth: this is not just Thailand, it's Asia and it's been like this probably since before the Buddha was born. If you want to let it bother you, or if you want to spend time making sure you always get the "Thai price" (whatever that is) then I say go for it. As for me, I walk away from obvious double pricing and for the rest I pay what I think is reasonable, if it's not then I walk away. And yes, I also get cheated occasionally.

As I say, welcome to Asia.

Where's Bilbo Baggins? I think we need his blade sting.

There are many times that Disneyland charges a lower fee to resident of Southern Californian than they charge to anyone else. You have to prove you live there. This is blantant discrimination against Texans.

In Hawaii, I flash my Hawaii drivers license for a discount in many (most) restaurants & shops. They even have a word for it, kamaaina discount (google it). I am not ethnic Hawaiian, but I am a resident. What sort of discrimination is this?

Oh well, the subject has been done to death, funeralised, buried, dug up, beaten to a pulp, cremated and the ashes resurrected so many times, but for what it's worth here's my tuppence worth: this is not just Thailand, it's Asia and it's been like this probably since before the Buddha was born. If you want to let it bother you, or if you want to spend time making sure you always get the "Thai price" (whatever that is) then I say go for it. As for me, I walk away from obvious double pricing and for the rest I pay what I think is reasonable, if it's not then I walk away. And yes, I also get cheated occasionally.

As I say, welcome to Asia.

Everybody loves a discount as long as they are on the receiving end. If not then it is racist, discrimination, horrible, not fair, illegal or worse.

I'm sure all the whiners always refuse every discount offer they receive around the world ..you know the ones...discount for kids, discount for seniors, ladies night free admission, discount for local residents, discount for early or last minute bookings, happy hour discounts, etc....after all everyone should always pay exactly the same price as everyone else...no exceptions.

As for your hotel example I have seen some places where expats pay less than Thais. As for the fruit example say you want Thai price, if you don't get it walk away. However you are right I hate double pricing. Especially at government attractions. I take the Thai family to one and then I have to pay more. If I wasn't paying for the family they wouldn't be going. I find that I take the family to less attractions, not because I mind paying for them, but because I resent paying more than them.

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It may be described as dual pricing, but not generally double pricing.

"I take the Thai family to one and then I have to pay more. "

Or, you have to pay less of your money for them. I suppose it depends on whether you see yourself as the victim of some loss of face, which tends to send some farang up the wall, or you feel happy that you're saving your money because the other members of your family are receiving a discount.

Assuming it's the principle (isn't it always?), I'm sure if you insisted on paying the full amount for everyone in your family, they'd allow it. It would mean you would end up paying more, but it is the principle not the money, right?

I can see that this is a form of discrimination, albeit trivial to most rational people, but the fact that some farang can't get over it just means that they have a major "loss of face" hang up. When I board an airplane knowing that I paid full fare and some family with numerous loud and obnoxious children board, I sometimes wonder why the children fly at a fraction of the full fare. In my view they ought to pay at least twice as much considering the disturbance they often cause to everyone else. I don't know why I should end up subsidizing their drive to over-populate the world. But then I let it go rather than sink into a depression over it.

When I attended universities in my state in the US, "foreigners" from other states were charged considerably more than I was. I always found that to be a thoroughly logical form of discrimination, not so much based on principle, but because it benefited me. Perspective often trumps principle.

Edited December 8, 201312 yr by Suradit69

Where's Bilbo Baggins? I think we need his blade sting.

Sadly I couldn't find the bit from the movie when it glows blue ...

.

There are many times that Disneyland charges a lower fee to resident of Southern Californian than they charge to anyone else. You have to prove you live there. This is blantant discrimination against Texans.

In Hawaii, I flash my Hawaii drivers license for a discount in many (most) restaurants & shops. They even have a word for it, kamaaina discount (google it). I am not ethnic Hawaiian, but I am a resident. What sort of discrimination is this?

That sounds like it's based on taxes. You can get that in Thailand, too....people with work permits, etc., can produce those...driver's licenses, company ID cards or tabien bahn....have heard all of these work (search for stories on TV) and I have personally used a company ID for it. That is for things like national parks, etc. At the market....they are going to try to get what they think they can get. Know someone in the hotel industry and you might even get a hotel room CHEAPER than Thai guests could.

I have been out of the US for a long time, so unless I returned to the same place I lived when I left, I wouldn't get in-state tuition until after living and paying taxes in that state for 2 years. Americans move for that very reason all the time.

The first time I arrived in Thailand, Sept 1993 as expat this was already the case.

Since then nothing changed, only increased. So, uyou all know this, and all went to come to Thailand.

So, blame youreslf for going to Thailand instead of to .. Latin America or .. what other place.

Thais do not give a damn for you, are only interested in your money, till your last baht is subtracted, so..

I dont know what it is but i never ever get charged more ,maybe its because i look as if i am a local living here in Pattaya ,at entertainment venues just show my driving licence and get Thai price ,only once been charged farang price and that was on the yellow sumbmarine ,but as it was our sons birthday treat could hardly walk away.

is it because you look like a tourist op?

Yup you are probably right - I knew I should have hidden my maps, stopped taking pics of the food I was eating and stopped asking every tuc tuc driver how much it costs to go to Central world.

Pattaya I feel, (but I do not really know for sure) works in a non dual pricing only if you do know the systems and how they should operate. I remember the first time I went to Pattaya and I got out the songthaew and asked how much - He said 20Baht (because I asked - He knew I didn't know and he then knew that there was an opportunity for gain) - Yep its only 10 Baht (Beach rd) and then also 6 weeks ago I took the songthaew from bus station to walking street - Everyone got off and I was the last - Chinese girl was charged 30 Baht and the same for two English guys - I refused to pay the inflated price. We only got back to the correct price when I pointed to the local bobby across the road indicating we ask him what the fixed price was.

But obviously when you know your way around then you don't walk into these tourist traps since you know they are there i.e now when I now get to the bus station in Pattaya I walk over the road and pay my10 Baht to a passing songthaew without the waiting and herding that goes on at the bus terminal for tourists.

The irony is Thais only pay 5 baht for a songthaew in Pattaya (short trip).

Edited December 8, 201312 yr by edwardandtubs

I usually point to the displayed price and state the price before i hand over the cash,, if the price is different then i go elsewhere, otherwise i just give cash to the girlfriend and she pays,, the sellers soon know me and don't cheat me...for now anyway.