Why are so many foreigners backing Suthep?

[haroldcane]

...supporting the real crooks. (Army and Elite)

you say the army are "crooks"? you'd better don't do that

if you insult the royal army, you insult especially the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces

the supreme commander has just 'invited' suthep on Saturday "to find a way out for Thailand"

he may have invited tax-sin too if he was no tax-sinner & fugitive criminal. this is why so many foreigners backing suthep

suthep meets thai top brass: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/12/us-thailand-protest-idUSBRE9BA16120131212

[haroldcane]

...the way to ovoid the truth about yourself is to attack, with no evidence, those who you consider are your 'enemy'....

Don't forget the reason why Central World burnt was beause Mr S and his handlers had turned off the power and the water so the sprinkers COULDN'T work -

there is doubt it was the red-shirts anyway.

what a joker! just read these 2 sentences! where is the evidence for his hateful totally unbiased inflammatory attack?

we always thought something is burnt beCause somebody puts fire on it. we now know who YOU consider YOUR 'ENEMY'

so many foreigners are backing Suthep (Mr S is wrong spelling of a name says metisdead) because of his 'enemies' like YOU!

[Water Buffalo]

Perhaps we would like a government which doesn't treat expats and their Thai families as unreasonably as the current one.

If Suthep gets control, it will be much worse as he has an inferiority complex when it comes to farang.

When he was fronted with the suggestion that they bring in a UN observer group for the elections, his reply was "we Thai will never be told what to do by farang"...............Dumb, ask yourself what this means ?

If Suthep gets control? Come on!

He cannot get control. He will never be Prime Minister.

Open your eyes and switch on your brain please.

Do i have to spell it out?

[jaideeguy]

IMHO.........Thais are not yet mature or disciplined enough for a true democracy and they are better off with a 'strongman' as their leader. Yeah, there was a lot of collateral damage with the last strongman that they ousted, but compare that damage with the opposition's ongoing disruptions....................But, what do I know, I'm just another stupid falang that shouldn't be involved in Thai politics.

Edited December 13, 2013 by jaideeguy

[geriatrickid]

The large multinational investors do not support any group that seeks to overthrow a legally elected government that has a record of compliance with international trade agreements and understandings. Thailand's major foreign investors, when they have made any statement in response to a question from analysts asked on quarterly calls, have steered clear of taking sides and do not comment on the political aspects of current events. (Some companies have hundreds of millions of dollars/euro tied up in infrastructure and other investments and there are financial analysts asking if the investments are "safe".) You can listen for yourself at the next broadcast for a few of these companies.

The foreign affair representatives of foreign governments have given their tacit support of the current government. Recent examples are the UK, USA and China. There is not one foreign government to have made any statement in support of the protestors.

The UK position as of November 29 is representative of the international community follows. I have bolded the important part of the comment which hopefully drives home the point.

"The Ambassador discussed the current situation in Thailand with both the Prime Minister and leader of the Opposition. It is, of course, for Thailand, as a sovereign state, to resolve the current situation in the country. The primary power and responsibility lies with the Thai people and their representatives, rather than the international community. In that context, we trust that all sides will work together for the national interest and the future of the country. The UK, in line with other members of the international community, hopes that all sides will use peaceful methods and dialogue to find a way forward. As stated by Minister Hugo Swire and in line with the position expressed by the European Union, the UK believes that issues should be resolved within the framework of the democratic system, respecting the rule of law. The UK views the right to peaceful protest as an inherent part of freedom of expression, which should be guaranteed in a democracy. There should be no place for use of violence or undemocratic methods, including the unsanctioned occupation of property."

Even Russia has made clear its position, albeit in diplomatic talk;

We continue to follow closely the development of the situation in Thailand, where a dissolution of the lower chamber of parliament was announced amidst large scale anti-governmental manifestations. The Government headed by Yingluck Shinawatra performs its obligations existing as a temporary cabinet of ministers.

We express our hope that the internal political crisis in Thailand will be settled by peaceful means which will be based on generally accepted democratic principles, and in a manner consistent with constitutional rights. We view the extraordinary parliamentary elections scheduled for 2nd February 2014, which will result in the formation of a new cabinet of ministers, as an important step toward the resolution of the situation in the country.

Under these circumstances, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs re-asserts its earlier recommendations to Russian tourists for the near future, and that they should refrain from visiting Bangkok wherever possible.

A word of caution to those foreigners who decide to involve themselves in an internal domestic political issue of Thailand: You are most likely acting against the stated public interest of your respective homeland. As such, if the foreigner is arrested or injured as a result of his activity, he should not expect anything but the required minimal assistance from his respective country. Don't get involved.

[wilcopops]

The Nation newspaper has an agenda.

Many Thai Visa members mistakenly think they are reading the news and end up supporting the real crooks. (Army and Elite)

A newspaper with an agenda? Really?

What I find so worrying about that is not that the paper has an agenda, but that it looks like the poster thinks other papers DON"T or at least has only spotted this one - now that could be a serious obstacle to making informed opinions.

(BTW, love the use of the word "agenda" - it has so many sub-texts and undertones!)

[kikoman]

I for one never liked Thaskin, and thought his family being elected as PM based on his political machine, was his taking advantage of the poor and farmers in Thailand, I saw the installing of the Democrats to the PM was a step in the right directions, my approval of the Democrats quickly faded, as they while in office failed to look out for the needs of the less affluent citizens of Thailand.

After the elected government was forced out of office, The Democrat's the party of the rich old elite families power structure who have not won a national election in 20 years, continued with their old business as usual politics that favored the old power structure.

In our village in central Thailand, the popular support for Yingluck is very prominent and some members of my family posted in social media this support for the government, as close family members within my household posted such support to social media. I took it upon myself to pick their brain as to why they supported Yingluck and not the call for political change in the country, the underlying response was that the change would involve the dismantling of the 30 baht medical coverage, government loans to the villages and other programs that help make life easier for the less affluent in Thai society.

As I never read any where that the political change would involve the dismantling of the populist polices already in place in Thailand, until I read today's issue of the Bangkok Post, That stated directly from the self proclaimed Secretary General of the demonstrators IE:" In enacting laws to prevent the implementation of populist policies" that in itself are channels of graft.

Now I understand why the protesters are dead set against having a free election in Thailand to replace the current government. Because the majority of Thailand's voters will only re-elect the present government, PERIOD! They know they will continue another 20 years of not winning a national election and they refuse to amend their party platform to include the needs of the vast majority of voter "the less affluent Thai voters".

I think the political reform by the Yingluck government to pass a law that excludes all Thai's convicted in a Thai court for political corruption to never be able to have their convictions set aside by any type of Amnesty and go on with the February 2 election and may the best man (or women win).

That's how a Democracy works, the majority rules.

Just my 2 centavos!

Cheers

[haroldcane]

...I think the political reform by the Yingluck government to pass a law that excludes all Thai's convicted in a Thai court for political corruption

to never be able to have their convictions set aside by any type of Amnesty...

That's how a Democracy works, the majority rules...

we don't understand your sentence about "political reform by the Yingluck government". she wanted an amnesty for her criminal brother at any price.

THAT started this whole protest with many red-shirts from issan protesting too

its NOT democracy if a billionaere buys himself as many parties & PMs as he can & buys most votes through corruption gets a majority

and the opposition who is lesser corrupt & buys lesser votes stays the minority forever. thailand needs education more than money bribes

the oldest political party in thailand are the democrats http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democrat_Party_%28Thailand%29

never dissolved by the courts for corruption and/or vote buying. compare that with tax-sin & the many bought new parties. none survived for long

their first serious crime was a bill which allwed the tax-sinner to evade taxes he owed to the poor thai rice-farmers

his biggest scam was corruption on a grand scale through an extremely expensive rice scheme, while the poor still wait for the promised riches

his last crime was the attempt to be pardoned for all his crimes through an amnesty at any price, upsetting even his own red-shirts

THATs NOT how a democracy should work: a fugitive rich criminal rules from dubious dubai or cambodia

[pomchop]

It sure seems to me that the number of falangs posting their support of Suthep is declining on a daily basis as he continues to run his mouth and make outrageous claims as to how HE will decide exactly what "good people" will be in charge and exactly how he isn't the least bit interested in any elections.

Just maybe Suthep is making a few of the Taksin haters realize that there are plenty of NUTS in the political bowl and Suthep might be the biggest NUT of them all.

[culicine]

Perhaps we would like a government which doesn't treat expats and their Thai families as unreasonably as the current one.

If Suthep gets control, it will be much worse as he has an inferiority complex when it comes to farang.

When he was fronted with the suggestion that they bring in a UN observer group for the elections, his reply was "we Thai will never be told what to do by farang"...............Dumb, ask yourself what this means ?

Suthep is as polarising as Thaksin - so, no I don't think he would ever be in control in this country. As for Suthep's attitude to farangs, I thought that was the underlying feeling among most Thais anyway. Lucky Thai Thais are a tolerant people, or we would not be able to live here as easily as we do.

[losworld]

Some good points but democracy in the long game does not work very well if it becomes a vote buying business and this is the business Thaksin is in. Ironically, as a robber baron similar to Carlos Slim in Mexico perhaps worse, he has extracted milked the Isaan people with his monopolized cell phone company. He has actually bought them with their own money. Anyone who sees this is disgusted and takes corruption to dizzying new heights. Time for Thaksins to move on but they won't. Yingluck says she will resign for the good of the country. Well where is the resignation?

I for one never liked Thaskin, and thought his family being elected as PM based on his political machine, was his taking advantage of the poor and farmers in Thailand, I saw the installing of the Democrats to the PM was a step in the right directions, my approval of the Democrats quickly faded, as they while in office failed to look out for the needs of the less affluent citizens of Thailand.

After the elected government was forced out of office, The Democrat's the party of the rich old elite families power structure who have not won a national election in 20 years, continued with their old business as usual politics that favored the old power structure.

In our village in central Thailand, the popular support for Yingluck is very prominent and some members of my family posted in social media this support for the government, as close family members within my household posted such support to social media. I took it upon myself to pick their brain as to why they supported Yingluck and not the call for political change in the country, the underlying response was that the change would involve the dismantling of the 30 baht medical coverage, government loans to the villages and other programs that help make life easier for the less affluent in Thai society.

As I never read any where that the political change would involve the dismantling of the populist polices already in place in Thailand, until I read today's issue of the Bangkok Post, That stated directly from the self proclaimed Secretary General of the demonstrators IE:" In enacting laws to prevent the implementation of populist policies" that in itself are channels of graft.

Now I understand why the protesters are dead set against having a free election in Thailand to replace the current government. Because the majority of Thailand's voters will only re-elect the present government, PERIOD! They know they will continue another 20 years of not winning a national election and they refuse to amend their party platform to include the needs of the vast majority of voter "the less affluent Thai voters".

I think the political reform by the Yingluck government to pass a law that excludes all Thai's convicted in a Thai court for political corruption to never be able to have their convictions set aside by any type of Amnesty and go on with the February 2 election and may the best man (or women win).

That's how a Democracy works, the majority rules.

Just my 2 centavos!

Cheers

[GinBoy2]

i support suthep.

I can vote.

Well as soon as Suthep gets his way that voting right will be gone! Be careful what you wish for

[DrTuner]

Backing Suthep, or just wanting the Shins out ? I imagine once they got rid of the Shin clan, Suthep would be next in the firing line. AFAIK there's not a single one Thai politician interested in driving the benefits of Farangs in Thailand, so the question is simply trying to get a least irritating one.

[Smokemachine]

Suthep is the only one who dare to bring them down openly. But too bad because of his past wrongdoing, people start to question his credibilty and his real intention. Accusing him of trying change the current " TS DEMOCRACY" system to his dictatorship.

The reform party should have find a new face with clean records to challenge the TS regime. Then probably will shut these pro-TS mouth up.

All these TS supporters conveniently pointing on Suthep while nothing is talk about the current govt.

The current picture is painted like a ex-con man, a madman, a <deleted> man, or whatever man they can put Suthep as is trying to take down our beloved YL govt. A government who is scamming caring for the nation and the thai people.

So many are helping TS. What will Thailand's destiny be??

Sa toot........

[Kudel]

Suthep is the only one who dare to bring them down openly. But too bad because of his past wrongdoing, people start to question his credibilty and his real intention. Accusing him of trying change the current " TS DEMOCRACY" system to his dictatorship.

The reform party should have find a new face with clean records to challenge the TS regime. Then probably will shut these pro-TS mouth up.

All these TS supporters conveniently pointing on Suthep while nothing is talk about the current govt.

The current picture is painted like a ex-con man, a madman, a cun_t man, or whatever man they can put Suthep as is trying to take down our beloved YL govt. A government who is scamming caring for the nation and the thai people.

So many are helping TS. What will Thailand's destiny be??

Sa toot........

je ne understaind pas what you are saying????

[featography]

I personally think that, as foreigners being guest in this country, we shouldn't involve in national matters that we mostly do not understand.

1- We have accepted (for different personal - good - reasons) to have no domestic right.

2- Paying taxes and spending money here didn't change our blood. None of us can become Thai nor can "think Thai"

3- Even after 10 or 20 years here, we will not understand totally the positions of each side.

4- If we want Thai people to respect us, let's start to be respectable. Let's be out of these national matters concerning Thais only.

5- Whatever the government is or will be, if we want to live in Thailand we must follow the rules.

6- If we are not happy, so let's go back to our countries and be fine there ;-)

I am totally against the foreigners who are taking position for this color or against that one, blablabla.

This is kid game played by old kids who have nothing to do in Thai people stories.

I am sure that most of Thai people do not appreciate this kind of behavior from some farangs...

My wife is Thai.

I share some of her points of view, I disagree with some others. I talk with her and try to help her comparing different possibilities, avoiding straight and strong positions.

At the end of the day, I will always back her (and protect her) just because she is my wife, and also because she is bright and totally involve in a positive social life.

But I will never go to protest in the streets, nor I will take any political position in public.

It doesn't mean that I cannot be an observer and have my own analysis of the country and current situation.

But I do know that can understand only a very small part of the problem.

This is my own way to show respect to Thai people who have welcomed me, and to give them a good picture about foreigners as well. As I told above, if we want to be respected we should start first to be respectable.

Any country out of mine that I have visited, I have never got any trouble with local people.

I can hear and read so many complains from foreigners here that I often wonder why they stay in Thailand...

Why do they want to get more trouble by involving in Thai private matters?...

Cheers ;-)

I am married to a Red Shirt, we discuss politics in the privacy of our home, I too, stay out of it in public. My answer to questions posed by people as to my beliefs, is short and simple. ''I am not sedang, not seleung, I am se-farang''. That gets chuckles, head nods, and other positive reactions

[wamberal]

Never, ever get involved in politics or political discussions, except in the privacy of your own home. Actually, I try to avoid politics at home, my wife is as fixed in her opinions as some of the posters here. And that's saying something.

[Ricardo]

"I am glad he came into power because something started to change in Thai society"

​What exactly "started to change"?

They are changing back to the traditional corrupt ways instead.of the new fangled ones like trains and water projects.

Agree! Thailand desperately needs those infrastructure projects, 2nd to education though! Keep them stupid and in the dark ages, easier to control & manipulate.

"Keep them stupid and in the dark ages, easier to control & manipulate."

I often wonder, after a decade in-power, is that a deliberate part of TRT/PPP/PTP's strategy, or merely an unintended side-effect ?

To answer the OP, I think that many of the people, and also the farang partners he refers to, were upset by the way the Thaksin-Amnesty-Bill was rammed-through Parliament. It was seen as being entirely self-serving, nepotistic & undemocratic.

Which is why so many Thais came out to protest, and PM-Yingluck finally stopped smirking & called an election.

At that point most of them went home, point made, and job achieved.

The remaining few Suthep-loyalists are flogging a deal horse, and will eventually realise it. If that means he's completed his contribution, to Thai political life, then well & good.

This is not the best time, in the run-up to an election, to consider upgrades to the 2007-Constitution.

Suthep's view is that it must be changed, before an election, but I think few farangs would agree with him. That's something for after-the-election, and perhaps the PM will even show up, for the reform council, or whatever it's called.

In summary, I don't agree that many foreigners are backing Suthep now, but they were during the massive peaceful-protests leading-up to the dissolution, for good reasons.

Oh, and we're not all fascists, either.

[tgeezer]

The inescapable fact is that there is no 'Rule of Law' in Thailand.

It's like a game of football with an ineffective referee and it will never change. Taksin's thinks that the side with possession makes up their own rules, or at least picks the ref. who's job it is to stop the other side getting the ball. The home team supporters saw this and occupied the pitch, and he lost the ball. Then his supporters occupied the pitch and he got the ball back by threatening to destroy the pitch. Now the home supporters are on the pitch, and the funny thing is while all this has been going on both sides have been breaking the rules, making up new rules, and generally ruining the game for all the spectators on both sides, but no player is ever sent off!

The only thing needed is a ref. with the power to control the game; The Rule of Law.

[UncleJ]

Why can't the democrats win an election?

Suthep:" Thaksin pays for votes."

Why don't you invite international observers?

Suthep: "I don't trust farangs" "Our election commission does a good job."

Why can't the democrats win?

Suthep: Thaksins pays for votes.....

...........

[geriatrickid]

Never, ever get involved in politics or political discussions, except in the privacy of your own home. Actually, I try to avoid politics at home, my wife is as fixed in her opinions as some of the posters here. And that's saying something.

Or one can receive a formal warning from an employer and then be terminated with just cause because of one's terms and conditions of employment.

[metisdead]

A post in violation of this forum rule has been removed:

31) Bangkok Post do not allow quotes from their news articles or other material to appear on Thaivisa.com. Neither do they allow links to their publications. Posts from members containing quotes from or links to Bangkok Post publications will be deleted from the forum. Please note that this is a decision by the Bangkok Post, not by Thaivisa.com and any complaints or other issues concerning this rule should be directed to them. Quotes from and links to Phuketwan are also not allowed and will also be removed. In special cases forum Administrators or the news team may use these sources.

Replies to that post were also removed.

Other off topic and inflammatory baiting posts and replies have been removed as well.

[gerry1011]

Foreigners are brainwashed by the very biased English language media.

Most foreigners don't understand what really happens because they don't understand the Thai language, live exclusively in an expat environment and have very little contact with the Thai society.

Many foreigners, who belonged to the lower class in their own country, like to consider themselves "better" than the Thais and feel like they are part of the "middle class" or the "educated people". They thus side with the democrats and Suthep, identify themselves to the Thai upper class, and support the actions of the old elite that could not adapt to the changing world. In their own country these foreigners would do the exact opposite.

Many foreigners like to think that only Thaksin is bad and corrupt. This blinds them completely and they naively side with the Dems and Suthep as if it was the solution to everything.

There are many other reasons that make foreigners support Suthep and the Dems in their crusade to topple elected governments. Frustration, anger, bias, personal failure in life, ... But in any case, to support someone like Suthep is totally irrational.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[UncleJ]

Right Gerry. I can instantly spot the posts of The Nation readers.

They start almost every post with 'the criminal fugitive!'

The Nation has been drilling that into their heads for years. Day after day..and they drink it up like good little north koreans too.

The Nation was always quik to note (without proof) that "criminal fugitive Thaksin" financed the red shirt protests but I have not seen one mention of the 5 million baht / day supporting the current yellow shirt protests.

Who's paying this mob and why is The Nation not investigating?

Edited December 16, 2013 by UncleJ

[GreenSnapper]

A few corrections:

The mob is not "Thai upper class". Those who claim that have never been to some of their demonstrations.

The mob is not payed. But there is free food, transport, shelter and the guards/thugs get about 1000 Baht per day.

This is not your Western class struggle fairytale. So stay off from buzzwords like "fascists", "democrats", "left" or "right". This is still Thailand (TIT).

[GreenSnapper]

Suthep has sold land and pays a lot from his own pocket. Others certainly support him too.

Without money, you cannot set up such big demonstrations. Not different to the times, when the red mob was out on the street.

This is how life and politics work. Get used to it.

[UncleJ]

It's only a problem when Thaksin does it?

[Pops]

Below from OP is my favourite

uneducated people are the ones who understand and respect democracy

We give you 500 baht and you vote for us

We give you Chinese tablet and you vote for us

We buy rice from you for more than its worth and you vote for us

Yes, they most certainly do understand and respect democracy

Yeah and the alternative:

You either vote for us or we forcefully overthrow you, with or without help of army, under guidance of an equally corrupt protest leader, is much better of course.

Wakey wakey !!

Problem is, that there is so much going on in Thai politics and society that we do not know nor understand, that it is almost impossible to judge, for us foreigners.

To me it seems that the Thai people can only chose a lesser evil of both parties/groups.

Both have their plusses and minuses, but I do think, the Thais have a better understanding of their country's politics, than most foreigners give them credit for.

[txp158]

IMHO.........Thais are not yet mature or disciplined enough for a true democracy and they are better off with a 'strongman' as their leader. Yeah, there was a lot of collateral damage with the last strongman that they ousted, but compare that damage with the opposition's ongoing disruptions....................But, what do I know, I'm just another stupid falang that shouldn't be involved in Thai politics.

What is true democracy anyway? Do you think america is more mature in terms of democracy when there is a large amount of rich bussiness men taking a lot of benefit from agricultural subsidy in the US? What the difference between thai government paying for the rice from thai farmer more than its worth and the agricultural subsidy program? Why are there so many people in the US think gasoline is too expensive and why doesn't the government do something about it?

The problem is not about disciplined or mature but basic knowledge in economy and democracy. If you wanna talk about discipline, I'm willing to bet there are ten of thousands of Thai kids who are more discipline than you are.

Edited December 18, 2013 by txp158

[simondan]

Is the US a more mature democracy? Good question. It is certainly a more robust democracy since they sorted out the civil war. But when you have a sizable proportion of the population who think they should have a right to bear arms so they the citizens can keep a check on executive power, you have to wonder if the message has really sunk in. In their concepts of rule of law and the principles of democracy, the US gun lobby arent that far from the mobs in Bangkok, minus the automatic weapons (mostly!).

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