Thailand's 'up country' boom fuels political divide

[webfact]

Thailand's 'up country' boom fuels political divide
By Peter Shadbolt, CNN

(CNN) -- Thailand's warring political factions hardly need red shirts and yellow shirts to identify themselves: a short few hours by road from Bangkok reveals a dramatic shift in culture.

In central Bangkok, the young and moneyed throng the bars of Thong Lo where the men have the well-groomed detachment of the younger Abhisit -- the Eton and Oxford-educated leader of the opposition, whose 2008-2011 government launched a violent crackdown on the largely rural pro-Thaksin Shinawatra red-shirt protesters in 2010.

Amid the jazz bars and cool beer gardens of Thong Lo, these young Thais represent not only an urban and educated middle class but also the money of some of Thailand's most established families.

Just a few hours to the northeast and the prevailing culture gives way to pick-up trucks, cowboy hats and the whine of electric organ and guitar that comes from "mor lam" music: the Thai "up country" version of country and western. [read more...]

Full story: http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/10/world/asia/thailand-protests-society/

-- CNN 2013-12-12

[lovetotravel]

Very interesting article.

[noitom]

With that level of "boom" and growth, it appears that the Thaksin years have been very good for the "upcountry folk."

[EvilDrSomkid]

Very interesting article.

Yes, it is. However, this has been in effect for a long time already, but has passed unnoticed in Bangkok for the most part.

K'Thitinan is correct in that most Bangokians ignore what happens outside their city, like it is irrelevant.

They will have to acknowledge this or suffer. It is also one of the reasons why it is increasingly difficult to find affordable staff.

There is more and more work in Isaan besides farming.

Watch these videos of Chris Baker and Thitinan at the FCCT from last year.

[rijb]

“What has been happening in Thailand is not about Thaksin or not even about conflicts among the elite — it’s socioeconomic change, enormous change that has taken place for the past two decades,” said Nidhi Eoseewong, a prominent historian.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/04/world/asia/thailand-protests-reflect-searing-divisions-of-changing-country.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&

[Katipo]

My wealthier Isaan friends (whether they live there of in Bangkok) all dispise Thaksin. So it really is a general socio-economic divide up there.

I truly believe that if the poorer Isaan folk were better educated and more financially independent, they too would have no time for Thaksin. The paradox is that these people (rightly or wrongly) believe that Thaksin is the only way to achieve this higher standard of living.

So while I can understand their point of view, I believe the damage to Thailand as a whole far outweighs any gains, real or percieved.

[citizen33]

My wealthier Isaan friends (whether they live there of in Bangkok) all dispise Thaksin. So it really is a general socio-economic divide up there.

I truly believe that if the poorer Isaan folk were better educated and more financially independent, they too would have no time for Thaksin. The paradox is that these people (rightly or wrongly) believe that Thaksin is the only way to achieve this higher standard of living.

So while I can understand their point of view, I believe the damage to Thailand as a whole far outweighs any gains, real or percieved.

I wonder if this poster has actually lived in the NE. Among the middle class there are people supporting both sides, but many do stand behind Yingluck's government. Last week I attended a dinner with a small group of fairly well-to-do people in a a central Isaan town (several with Ph.D.s); I was a little surprised to find that they were unanimous in their condemnation of the demands of the protesters in Bangkok.

[animatic]

" Economic growth in the region hit 40% from 2007 to 2011,

compared with 23% for the rest of Thailand over that period

and just 17% for greater Bangkok, according to government figures." * CNN article.

Actually this shows it was POST-Thaksin and Pre-Yingluck

and during the gradual returning of the world economy that all this BOOM has been taking place.

A recovery made possible by the work of Korn as Finance minister,

and ignored prior to him by Somchai and Samaks FM's.

Of course 40% growth in Issan is chicken feed compared to the Bangkok economy,

and would venture that a lot of the money applied in Isaan, is generated by tourist business,

and work in Bangkok money sent home.

We do know Issan wages are still not up to the 300 baht a day they are now down south.

But the minimum wage certainly has helped, even if that doesn't fit in the 2007-2011 figures above.

Edited December 12, 2013 by animatic

[Local Drunk]

“What has been happening in Thailand is not about Thaksin or not even about conflicts among the elite — it’s socioeconomic change, enormous change that has taken place for the past two decades,” said Nidhi Eoseewong, a prominent historian.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/04/world/asia/thailand-protests-reflect-searing-divisions-of-changing-country.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&

It's a good read... Thanks for the link and your post reminds I point I made to Emptyset yesterday is that we often know more about Thailand than the Thais do themselves. I've got an idea... Everyone who reads this post ask yourself and then ask a Thai who Nidhi Eoseewong is or who Wimon Sainimnuan is. I think that you will google and find out because you question things. They won't because they haven't been taught to.

[Credo]

" Economic growth in the region hit 40% from 2007 to 2011,

compared with 23% for the rest of Thailand over that period

and just 17% for greater Bangkok, according to government figures." * CNN article.

Actually this shows it was POST-Thaksin and Pre-Yingluck

and during the gradual returning of the world economy that all this BOOM has been taking place.

A recovery made possible by the work of Korn as Finance minister,

and ignored prior to him by Somchai and Samaks FM's.

Of course 40% growth in Issan is chicken feed compared to the Bangkok economy,

and would venture that a lot of the money applied in Isaan, is generated by tourist business,

and work in Bangkok money sent home.

We do know Issan wages are still not up to the 300 baht a day they are now down south.

But the minimum wage certainly has helped, even if that doesn't fit in the 2007-2011 figures above.

And much of that time, the country was ruled by which party? Is it the one that isn't controlled by a puppet?

And the economic growth of 40% started prior to 2007.

[bangon04]

The writer seems desperate to relate the Thai social picture to US values - maybe to appeal to the readers. Cowboy hats, pickups, C&W music etc. Superficial and naïve - a "boom" which is based on conspicuous consumption - spending today, often using unsustainable borrowing, is not an ideal measure for prosperity.

Education remains the key, and precious little improvement in education for the masses can be seen. Rather like the US masses, I guess.

[Prbkk]

Bangkok is going to have to recognize that it can't expect to get rich on the back of paying slave labour wages to those who generate the real wealth. They have had it too good for too long and want it to continue forever. Some of the characterization on social media sites are dreadful: people from regional areas being called buffaloes and donkeys ( probably by the same people attracted to the new promotion announced in today's Bangkok Post: buy a luxury handbag/other useless item from one of the mega malls and get 6 months free interest period....so-called hi-so but no cash, but very good at looking down their noses at others).

[spirit47]

Most Thais upbringing let them respect and observe rich and older people without asking anything. A new big car, an I-Phone, Designer clothes make most people look up. And sorry, I wonder the first time here how many people look down to the poor and employees. Now everyone have a TV, and see the rich Thais in the soap Operas, looking the livestyle of the rich.

These in the Bars of Tong Lo and in the TV are not Thailand, these are copies from the Yuppies of the western countrys. You find them everywhere.

[JRSoul]

Bangkok is going to have to recognize that it can't expect to get rich on the back of paying slave labour wages to those who generate the real wealth. They have had it too good for too long and want it to continue forever. Some of the characterization on social media sites are dreadful: people from regional areas being called buffaloes and donkeys ( probably by the same people attracted to the new promotion announced in today's Bangkok Post: buy a luxury handbag/other useless item from one of the mega malls and get 6 months free interest period....so-called hi-so but no cash, but very good at looking down their noses at others).

I hope that by 'those who generate the real wealth' you are not referring to the rice industry, which by any measure has been a nett loss for the nation over the last few years. I'm sorry to say that bought votes have little if any economic value.

[Jasun]

Good article. You know when Sansiri starts building in Khon Kaen that times are changing.

[papa al]

No wonder that HRM the King wears a cowboy hat when upcountry. After all, he was born in America. Long live the King!

[bkkfaranguy]

My wealthier Isaan friends (whether they live there of in Bangkok) all dispise Thaksin. So it really is a general socio-economic divide up there.

I truly believe that if the poorer Isaan folk were better educated and more financially independent, they too would have no time for Thaksin. The paradox is that these people (rightly or wrongly) believe that Thaksin is the only way to achieve this higher standard of living.

So while I can understand their point of view, I believe the damage to Thailand as a whole far outweighs any gains, real or percieved.

And lets not forget they have no ohter options besdies Thaksin, the other party offers them nothing and I am not talking about vote buying and tells them they are not smart enough to vote in the first place, makes it a very easy decision to vote for thaksin!

[kimamey]

My wealthier Isaan friends (whether they live there of in Bangkok) all dispise Thaksin. So it really is a general socio-economic divide up there.

I truly believe that if the poorer Isaan folk were better educated and more financially independent, they too would have no time for Thaksin. The paradox is that these people (rightly or wrongly) believe that Thaksin is the only way to achieve this higher standard of living.

So while I can understand their point of view, I believe the damage to Thailand as a whole far outweighs any gains, real or percieved.

I wonder if this poster has actually lived in the NE. Among the middle class there are people supporting both sides, but many do stand behind Yingluck's government. Last week I attended a dinner with a small group of fairly well-to-do people in a a central Isaan town (several with Ph.D.s); I was a little surprised to find that they were unanimous in their condemnation of the demands of the protesters in Bangkok.

That's not the same as supporting either Thaksin or the government. My Isaan wife does not support Thaksin or the government but dislikes much of what Suthep is doing.

[comeondoit]

i have never reed a more stupid article, this reporter is only some kind of tourist,,or just plain stupid???. the guys in the governement are coming from up country (many of them) and are the masters in incompetency and deep pockets. this is methodical, keep the rural people stupid and they will follow you because they cannot live anymore without getting the handouts. example: in the 2 years we saw four education ministers coming (obviously the education ministry is a reward to followers to fill their pockets) everyone had a big mouth and started something what the following stopped. the newest one has publicly said "because of the one child one tablet policy, children have improved by 50%."..based on what? he probably wetted his finger and held it in the wind???? (guess, is he just stupid or a wicked politician?) but in meantime in the wake of the 300 BHT minimum wage, school uniforms became more expensive (just one examample) by up to 20%, the paddy field worker gets 300BHT per day now,,,,are you kidding me!!!!, he still gets what he always was getting150 to 200 a day for a 12 to 14 hours and a bag of rice eventually,...but his kids cannot go to better schools, no cash, normally they stop going to school with 14 years....they need to work to support the family...and, and, and. that is reality (he will grateful take the 500 or 1000 BHT he will get to vote for the red shirts) with statistics you can proof what ever you want...just look at the notoriuos liers and beautiful speakers in the house of parliament.

i am living upcountry and i am doing from time to time as a volunteer some basic english lessons in matayom schools. the last time i was there 100 kids were sitting in front of me...there is not enough room and there are not enough desks, not enough teachers speaking english and so on. ...figure out what could have been done in sustainable improvement if only a fraction of the wasted money (the one which goes in the pockets of the rich millers in the rice pledging scheme) would have been used for the schools. yes, there are some things which go back to taksim, like the practically free health care system...but go into one of the governement hospitals and you could see again what musted be done to improve that INFRASTRUCTURE (THAIS ARE VERY PROUD AND THEY WANT TO PLAY WITH THE BIG GUYS AND GET A HIGHSPEED TRAIN SYSTEM, WHICH ONLY THE RICH WILL BE ABLE TO USE, money spent which will bring nothing for the upcountry people) but no one of the big guys would think of asking the simple people who are using the actual trains practically for free, about what they really want and need.

i love that country and the people but i am sad about the missing education...the kids should, would and must be the future, and the health care system needs a revamping......but that kind of article is not helping at all

[comeondoit]

i have never reed a more stupid article, this reporter is only some kind of tourist,,or just plain stupid???. the guys in the governement are coming from up country (many of them) and are the masters in incompetency and deep pockets. this is methodical, keep the rural people stupid and they will follow you because they cannot live anymore without getting the handouts. example: in the 2 years we saw four education ministers coming (obviously the education ministry is a reward to followers to fill their pockets) everyone had a big mouth and started something what the following stopped. the newest one has publicly said "because of the one child one tablet policy, children have improved by 50%."..based on what? he probably wetted his finger and held it in the wind???? (guess, is he just stupid or a wicked politician?) but in meantime in the wake of the 300 BHT minimum wage, school uniforms became more expensive (just one examample) by up to 20%, the paddy field worker gets 300BHT per day now,,,,are you kidding me!!!!, he still gets what he always was getting150 to 200 a day for a 12 to 14 hours and a bag of rice eventually,...but his kids cannot go to better schools, no cash, normally they stop going to school with 14 years....they need to work to support the family...and, and, and. that is reality (he will grateful take the 500 or 1000 BHT he will get to vote for the red shirts) with statistics you can proof what ever you want...just look at the notoriuos liers and beautiful speakers in the house of parliament.

i am living upcountry and i am doing from time to time as a volunteer some basic english lessons in matayom schools. the last time i was there 100 kids were sitting in front of me...there is not enough room and there are not enough desks, not enough teachers speaking english and so on. ...figure out what could have been done in sustainable improvement if only a fraction of the wasted money (the one which goes in the pockets of the rich millers in the rice pledging scheme) would have been used for the schools. yes, there are some things which go back to taksim, like the practically free health care system...but go into one of the governement hospitals and you could see again what musted be done to improve that INFRASTRUCTURE (THAIS ARE VERY PROUD AND THEY WANT TO PLAY WITH THE BIG GUYS AND GET A HIGHSPEED TRAIN SYSTEM, WHICH ONLY THE RICH WILL BE ABLE TO USE, money spent which will bring nothing for the upcountry people) but no one of the big guys would think of asking the simple people who are using the actual trains practically for free, about what they really want and need.

i love that country and the people but i am sad about the missing education...the kids should, would and must be the future, and the health care system needs a revamping......but that kind of article is not helping at all

[Jimbob1]

"On the other side you have the anti-government protesters. They don't reject the electoral democracy but they prefer the monarchy-based social and political hierarchy at the top. That's why they keep calling for good people to run a good government to eradicate corruption."

I think that quote nails it .... if only ..

[Curt1591]

The term is 'boon', not 'boom'. One might hope a western 'journalist' might know that.

As far as CNN's stories go, I believe that, at least in the case of Thailand, most of the insights are gathered from the barstool. During the 2010 protests, their "man in Bangkok" couldn't identify Centralworld. Most be too far west of Nana!

[LomSak27]

What you will find in the towns of Central and in some northern provinces is the town - provincial capital is firmly yellow - and the province itself overwhelmingly red, Nakhon sawan, Tak, Sukkothai, Phtisanuloke all fall into that model. Makes for great splintered socio-economic-ethnic deconstructions.

[JRSoul]

What you will find in the towns of Central and in some northern provinces is the town - provincial capital is firmly yellow - and the province itself overwhelmingly red, Nakhon sawan, Tak, Sukkothai, Phtisanuloke all fall into that model. Makes for great splintered socio-economic-ethnic deconstructions.

You seem to use "yellow" as an equivalent to "not red."

Let me express it better for you. Those in the towns/provincial capitals are running businesses and working for semi-decent wages while those stuck on the tiny farms still haven't grasped that you can't make a decent living growing rice on small plots, and rely on government handouts to survive. While they feel indebted to those promising the subsidies, the town dwellers who pay the tax feel a bit differently.

[englishoak]

Very interesting article.

Yes, it is. However, this has been in effect for a long time already, but has passed unnoticed in Bangkok for the most part.

K'Thitinan is correct in that most Bangokians ignore what happens outside their city, like it is irrelevant.

They will have to acknowledge this or suffer. It is also one of the reasons why it is increasingly difficult to find affordable staff.

There is more and more work in Isaan besides farming.

Watch these videos of Chris Baker and Thitinan at the FCCT from last year.

This and it is a very good synopsis on where it is going sooner or later, you cant put the genie back in the bottle.

watch the vids if you want a real and clear vision on where things are and why, ultimately also where it will go, you dont have to like it but you had better believe its accurate... excellent info thx for posting

Edited December 14, 2013 by englishoak