Establish People's Council, or no Election: Suthep

[chooka]

Suthep calls himself democratic???? Why doesn't he want elections? Simple, because the Taksinites will most likely win again.

Exactly and he is trying to take the country by force.

[Just1Voice]

Let's play Devil's Advocate for a minute and say he get's his wish and establishes his "People's Council". All hand picked by him of course. He says it would only be for "about 15 months", and then new elections would be called. But, what if, after those 15 month, this "People's Council" decided they like their position and decide to "hand on for a while longer" (re: indefinitely), and elections become a thing of memory.

[kirk0233]

The term "loose cannon" comes to mind. He must know something I don't to carry on like this without getting busted for the Thai equivalent of treason. The Shins must know something to let him get away with it. Do they all believe he has the backing of the military?

What's going on that no one will touch him?

Most likely something we cannot discuss

[smedly]

Suthep calls himself democratic???? Why doesn't he want elections? Simple, because the Taksinites will most likely win again.

when did he say he didn't want elections ?

Perhaps you should go look again and when you have it right come back and post here exactly what he did say

It doesn't matter if PTP win the next elections as long as there are rules in place that stop them from the constant abuse of power and denial of the law and courts and procedures are put in place to force fiscal transparency, scrap parlamentry immunity to prosecution and Ban convicted MP's for life not 5 years, also for any charter or constitutional change will require 2/3 majority in the house therefor ensuring such changes are representative of all the people

Simple things that would make significant changes for the good of all

[Just1Voice]

The term "loose cannon" comes to mind. He must know something I don't to carry on like this without getting busted for the Thai equivalent of treason. The Shins must know something to let him get away with it. Do they all believe he has the backing of the military?

What's going on that no one will touch him?

Most likely something we cannot discuss

I have a feeling that the "something we cannot discuss" will be discussed quite openly when the "torch is passed on".

and I wouldn't be surprised to see a "pardon" being granted to the "main enemy" of the Dems and Suthep

Just my opinion

[smedly]

Let's play Devil's Advocate for a minute and say he get's his wish and establishes his "People's Council". All hand picked by him of course. He says it would only be for "about 15 months", and then new elections would be called. But, what if, after those 15 month, this "People's Council" decided they like their position and decide to "hand on for a while longer" (re: indefinitely), and elections become a thing of memory.

do you honestly need anyone to answer that nonsense especially given what has happened the last 4 weeks - you think the Thai people or the military would accept such a thing

seriously

[smedly]

"Absolute Democracy".. Sounds like a term DPRK, Mao Zedong or other failed communist experiment would use... Being the complete opposite of what a normal person defines Democracy like... History tells us that if he gets what he wants Thailand might be in for more serious problem than they faced in a very long time... Scary to say the least...

The only right move I can see the country take is a new election, and yea, PTP will probably win again, but so be it. The Democrats should get out in the provinces and fight to convince people to why they should change their minds, they will get much resistance in the beginning. But most of the PTP supporters wont be winning in the long run, and just as some "Farangs" get thrown out of the family when the money and support runs out, many PTP supporters will give up on them when they see that in fact nothing got better for them in the long run... And even though the process will be slow, it's the only democratic way I can see for changing the ruling side.

Just the fact that he refuses ANY form of negotiation and dialogue is scary enough, and shows well what kind of person he is... I smell doom... Doooooommmmmmmm

I wonder if the Thai English Translation has an accuracy issue here for the word "Absolute"

I get exactly what he is trying to do, just read my post above and so will you

[Jingthing]

Thaksin's Proxins to Suthep ... out of the frying pan into another frying pan.

[englishoak]

Thaksin's Proxins to Suthep ... out of the frying pan into another frying pan.

Stupid is as stupid does.

[Emdog]

"vowing instead to fight on until Thailand is ruled by an unelected ′People′s Council′ which would transform the nation into "absolute democracy"." I think there was a translation problem here. What he really said was "absolute Dems" and part of the plan is to hold elections, contrary to general opinion. Just one small feature most will not mind: only candidates of Dem party allowed to run. But they promise to have a committee look into allowing others to run just after absolute democracy brings happiness, honesty, truth and justice to all in Thailand.

[falangadang]

The term "loose cannon" comes to mind. He must know something I don't to carry on like this without getting busted for the Thai equivalent of treason. The Shins must know something to let him get away with it. Do they all believe he has the backing of the military?

What's going on that no one will touch him?

There are not only two ways to solve the crisis, the third and best way is to take out this dictator.

Certifiable !

He should be locked in a bare room with Chalerm for company.

All of the comments about Suthep being a mad dictator and an ego maniac etc I can understand. He certainly is behaving like a dictator and a take-over artist.

Clearly he is trying to hijack Thai politics and many may say that its purely for personal gain and glory but I see something different.

I see a guy that recognises that the current parliamentary system with its vote and allegiance buying, nepotism and cronyism is like trying to play a fair game with a stacked deck. It can't be done,- it's a house of cards destined to fall.

If things keep going the way that they had been then there is a real risk that Thailand could fall into an abyss of unserviceable debt and massive problems that would take generations to fix.

Therefore, the current system does in fact need to be hijacked and turned upside down in order for something better to prevail.

Like him or not, at least he is showing true leadership. He has the tenacity to follow through on his convictions with the intent of producing a government based on accountability and having the best interests of the nation at heart.

Notice that he is not suggesting a sole dictatorship or "council of 7" but a council of 400 made up of 300 seasoned politicians and 100 experts or specialists in various aspects of business and management. I personally don't see that as a bad thing in principle at least despite the unorthodox manner in which he suggests it should be actuated.

Time will tell whether Suthep is genuine and not just a megalomaniacal ego maniac but at least he's willing to stick his neck out and offer something that could save Thailand from being railroaded on the path to destruction at the hands of those that clearly couldn't care less about their countrymen or the nation's future just as long as their own bank accounts are stuffed to overflowing!

[Jingthing]

Is this really the best government Thai people can buy? If so, they got taken!

Edited December 13, 2013 by Jingthing

[bkkfaranguy]

Let's play Devil's Advocate for a minute and say he get's his wish and establishes his "People's Council". All hand picked by him of course. He says it would only be for "about 15 months", and then new elections would be called. But, what if, after those 15 month, this "People's Council" decided they like their position and decide to "hand on for a while longer" (re: indefinitely), and elections become a thing of memory.

do you honestly need anyone to answer that nonsense especially given what has happened the last 4 weeks - you think the Thai people or the military would accept such a thing

seriously

Actually yes many believe and I am not sure what news you have been reading lately you must only pay attention to the yellow propaganda! Sure he does not oppose elections as long as they can put into place a law that only allows the well educated to vote thus swaying the elections his way. There have also been other post by his supporters not just asking for a short term peoples concil, but to put one in place for 10years. While I am sure any sinerio would outrage the majority of the Thai people he has the money because he has the backing of the BKK rich elite and he has the backing of the military as they are joined together at the hip!

Edited December 13, 2013 by bkkfaranguy

[rijb]

Is this really the best government Thai people can buy? If so, they got taken!

Depends on how much they paid (or got paid) for it.

[BudRight]

nice touch the thai flag on his shirt, he must be a real patriot, you can trust him

It reminds me of the insipid little American flag US presidents have taken to wearing.

[Emptyset]

The term "loose cannon" comes to mind. He must know something I don't to carry on like this without getting busted for the Thai equivalent of treason. The Shins must know something to let him get away with it. Do they all believe he has the backing of the military?

What's going on that no one will touch him?

Well, the plan for this was in place before Suthep even got involved, it's true. It's not so much the military though, rather key playings in a powerful royalist network which operates entirely behind the scenes. One of the key players is supposedly Prawit Wongsuwan. He's probably taking care of the military side of things. Ultimately the military will back the protests rather than the government, but it's obvious they don't want to be seen to be involved if they can help it. A coup is out because they fear international backlash, not to mention the red shirt reaction. That's why this whole 'People's Coup' thing is necessary. Back in 2008, the key movers behind the scenes and the backers of the PAD movement were people like Piya Malakun, Khunying Jarungjit and Prasong Soonsiri. Basically ex-military and members of the aristocracy.

Now there will probably be people similar to these, but the names of key actors and the power they have shifts and I don't think anyone can really say, because it happens entirely behind closed doors. The names involved if they were ever revealed, might well be totally unfamiliar to us. But the funding is, as others have suggested, almost certainly provided by key Bangkok business families, most of which also fund the Democrats. Their combined wealth and ability to fund such a movement is obviously far greater than Thaksin's, that's one reason I've always thought the idea Thaksin can 'buy' whatever he wants (elections, movements etc) is a bit of a myth. If it was all about money... well the Democrats have more of it and I'm pretty sure Suthep's movement is better funded than the UDD.

Anyway, all that said, there's another more practically reason they can't arrest Suthep. The police would have to get through the protesters and the 3k guards they supposedly have, plus Suthep's personal phalanx of bodyguards. How are they supposed to do that? Remember the UDD leaders couldn't be arrested in 2010 until they handed themselves in, and they were probably more accessible than Suthep.

Also, what would they gain from arresting him? Sure he might be the most effective leader at the moment. But someone else could step into his position if required. And the arrest would likely galvanize his supporters more than it deflates them. In fact his arrest could be exactly the shot in the arm his movement needs if it comes in the near future - although I'm sure he can still get the support he needs, even as people are becoming turned off by his extremism and dictatorial manner.

Edited December 13, 2013 by Emptyset

[HKChris]

I understand he has announced his 'Peoples Council' will be 400 people... all moral citizens mostly from various sectors of business and industry. Where is he going to get that many from? How much is he going to pay and promise them to lure them away from their current employment? Completely delusional - be afraid Thailand.... be very, very afraid of this guy.

Perhaps he's suffering from the new Suthep disease: Insurrectile Dysfunction!

[smedly]

Let's play Devil's Advocate for a minute and say he get's his wish and establishes his "People's Council". All hand picked by him of course. He says it would only be for "about 15 months", and then new elections would be called. But, what if, after those 15 month, this "People's Council" decided they like their position and decide to "hand on for a while longer" (re: indefinitely), and elections become a thing of memory.

do you honestly need anyone to answer that nonsense especially given what has happened the last 4 weeks - you think the Thai people or the military would accept such a thing

seriously

Actually yes many believe and I am not sure what news you have been reading lately you must only pay attention to the yellow propaganda! Sure he does not oppose elections as long as they can put into place a law that only allows the well educated to vote thus swaying the elections his way. There have also been other post by his supporters not just asking for a short term peoples concil, but to put one in place for 10years. While I am sure any sinerio would outrage the majority of the Thai people he has the money because he has the backing of the BKK rich elite and he has the backing of the military as they are joined together at the hip!

lol again you are quoting stuff that you seem to have made up - I'll use this one example to discredit your whole post - please provide the quote from Suthep (or anyone for that matter) that states - only the well educated will be allowed to vote

seriously dude if you are just going to plaster this forum with your own made up incorrect spam/quotes you are simply wasting every ones time

Now it's a different matter if that is your opinion about sutheps intention but there is a huge difference between posting an opinion and actually claiming it as a fact - if it is an opinion then you have every right to have one but please state that in you post

[01322521959]

Why do I have the mad urge to jump up on the stage and sing OOO OOO OOO the funky gibbon, we are here to show you how, OOO OOO OOO the..... Made er'indoors laugh, but I must control myself.

[smedly]

I understand he has announced his 'Peoples Council' will be 400 people... all moral citizens mostly from various sectors of business and industry. Where is he going to get that many from? How much is he going to pay and promise them to lure them away from their current employment? Completely delusional - be afraid Thailand.... be very, very afraid of this guy.

Perhaps he's suffering from the new Suthep disease: Insurrectile Dysfunction!

you are asking were they are going to be paid from ? next week we will have some 600 MP's off the payroll IMO

[Emptyset]

Let's play Devil's Advocate for a minute and say he get's his wish and establishes his "People's Council". All hand picked by him of course. He says it would only be for "about 15 months", and then new elections would be called. But, what if, after those 15 month, this "People's Council" decided they like their position and decide to "hand on for a while longer" (re: indefinitely), and elections become a thing of memory.

do you honestly need anyone to answer that nonsense especially given what has happened the last 4 weeks - you think the Thai people or the military would accept such a thing

seriously

Actually yes many believe and I am not sure what news you have been reading lately you must only pay attention to the yellow propaganda! Sure he does not oppose elections as long as they can put into place a law that only allows the well educated to vote thus swaying the elections his way. There have also been other post by his supporters not just asking for a short term peoples concil, but to put one in place for 10years. While I am sure any sinerio would outrage the majority of the Thai people he has the money because he has the backing of the BKK rich elite and he has the backing of the military as they are joined together at the hip!

lol again you are quoting stuff that you seem to have made up - I'll use this one example to discredit your whole post - please provide the quote from Suthep (or anyone for that matter) that states - only the well educated will be allowed to vote

seriously dude if you are just going to plaster this forum with your own made up incorrect spam/quotes you are simply wasting every ones time

Now it's a different matter if that is your opinion about sutheps intention but there is a huge difference between posting an opinion and actually claiming it as a fact - if it is an opinion then you have every right to have one but please state that in you post

Well, no one will be able to vote for this People's Council. It'll be selected, 300 from various professions and 100 chosen by Suthep's group. How they then reform the constitution to achieve the election result they want after the proposed 12 - 18 months of the People's Council is an open question... after having gone to all this trouble, they'll either have to rig the system so that they're absolutely certain they'll win, or hang onto power long enough to eradicate the 'Thaksin regime' completely (5 years, 10 years?). The military apparently spent 56 billion baht of public money to try to win the 2007 election, and that didn't work, so the Council will have to go much further than the junta did.

Edited December 13, 2013 by Emptyset

[blaze]

He told the delegates the People′s Council would contain 400 seats: 300 selected from "occupation-based" quota and another 100 seats would be given to "experts" selected by the PCAD.

Suthep must have been reading Gibbon's The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire and decided that winding the clock back 2000 years to create a new Roman 'senate' is the way to go.

Not, perhaps, what most people would regard as 'absolute democracy'.

You don't have to go back that far. The March on Rome and Grand Council of Fascism - everything he's doing is a carbon copy of Mussolini.

[blaze]

The comparison of Suthep's 'People's Council' with the Grand Council of Mussolini is more than apt- almost uncanny,

And elections can be held under such a system- as Sondhi L earlier suggested and Suthep has promised. Each occupation could elect and forward a reprentative to the grand council. Each state department could do the same. There would be no corruption because all elected representatives could be screened by the appointed component of the regirme- who themselves are good people- (If they weren't they wouldn't be appointed by the good people doing the appointing).

This is a kind of Democracy- it is Fascist- (why beat around the bush?)- and it includes elections. Bear in mind that under Stalinism, there were constant elections in the old USSR- representatives of "The People'l were permitted to vote on certain issues. (Such as where to erect a new stature praising Stalin).

Edited December 13, 2013 by blaze

[smedly]

Well, no one will be able to vote for this People's Council. It'll be selected, 300 from various professions and 100 chosen by Suthep's group. How they then reform the constitution to achieve the election result they want after the proposed 12 - 18 months of the People's Council is an open question... after having gone to all this trouble, they'll either have to rig the system so that they're absolutely certain they'll win, or hang onto power long enough to eradicate the 'Thaksin regime' completely (5 years, 10 years?). The military apparently spent 56 billion baht of public money to try to win the 2007 election, and that didn't work, so the Council will have to go much further than the junta did.

again wrong - nowhere has suthep claimed he intends to win an election or even stand in one - all I have heard him say elections will be held once the political reforms (much needed IMO) have taken place

I wish people would stop posting this made up rubbish

[smedly]

The comparison of Suthep's 'People's Council' with the Grand Council of Mussolini is more than apt- almost uncanny,

And elections can be held under such a system- as Sondhi L earlier suggested and Suthep has promised. Each occupation could elect and forward a reprentative to the grand council. Each state department could do the same. There would be no corruption because all elected representatives could be screened by the appointed component of the regirme- who themselves are good people- (If they weren't they wouldn't be appointed by the good people doing the appointing).

This is a kind of Democracy- it is Fascist- (why beat around the bush?)- and it includes elections. Bear in mind that under Stalinism, there were constant elections in the old USSR- representatives of "The People'l were permitted to vote on certain issues. (Such as where to erect a new stature praising Stalin).

I think you are confused - just another misguided imagination

This council will only be in place to carry out some very needed reforms, once their job is complete then free nationwide elections will be held a far cry form anything you have stated above

[chuang]

I understand he has announced his 'Peoples Council' will be 400 people... all moral citizens mostly from various sectors of business and industry. Where is he going to get that many from? How much is he going to pay and promise them to lure them away from their current employment? Completely delusional - be afraid Thailand.... be very, very afraid of this guy.

Perhaps he's suffering from the new Suthep disease: Insurrectile Dysfunction!

And 100 " experts " nominated by PCAD....

[Zolt]

Thaksin was charged, found guilty and sentenced. Then conveniently allowed to flee the country. Why was he never pursued with an international arrest warrant?

Because there's no such thing as an international arrest warrant. Only local arrest warrants and extradition treaties. And most countries will only extradite for universally recognized crimes like murder, pedophilia or terrorism - if they even have an extradition agreement with Thailand in the first place. Extradition for a relatively small crime - abuse of power in a land deal - would be unheard of.

Unless more serious charges are levied against T (and the evidence will have to convince a foreign extradition panel), no chance for that.

[Zolt]

I think you are confused - just another misguided imagination

This council will only be in place to carry out some very needed reforms, once their job is complete then free nationwide elections will be held a far cry form anything you have stated above

- What makes this council mandated and qualified to make these reforms?

- This council is not legal under the framework of the current constitution. What laws would then govern the work of this council?

- What guarantee is there that the council would actually hold the election on time?

- What guarantee is there that the government will still be designated by elections in the new framework devised by the council? (If it's anything like the PAD's "New politics" then the House would be 70% appointed, 30% elected, so the elections would essentially mean nothing)

- What guarantee is there that the council and the people behind it would actually abide by the result of said elections? They didn't the last several times.

Edited December 13, 2013 by Zolt

[Exsexyman]

The comparison of Suthep's 'People's Council' with the Grand Council of Mussolini is more than apt- almost uncanny,

And elections can be held under such a system- as Sondhi L earlier suggested and Suthep has promised. Each occupation could elect and forward a reprentative to the grand council. Each state department could do the same. There would be no corruption because all elected representatives could be screened by the appointed component of the regirme- who themselves are good people- (If they weren't they wouldn't be appointed by the good people doing the appointing).

This is a kind of Democracy- it is Fascist- (why beat around the bush?)- and it includes elections. Bear in mind that under Stalinism, there were constant elections in the old USSR- representatives of "The People'l were permitted to vote on certain issues. (Such as where to erect a new stature praising Stalin).

I think you are confused - just another misguided imagination

This council will only be in place to carry out some very needed reforms, once their job is complete then free nationwide elections will be held a far cry form anything you have stated above

What will these much needed reforms be? Who will be making them, Suthep? Laughable. Whatever reforms are made, even if vote buying, ( by all sides), is eradicated, in any one person-one vote election, the current government will win again hands down. Suthep and his backers know this, that is why he says he will not allow the election to go ahead in February. The only reforms he will be interested in is gerrymandering, to somehow nullify the majority vote by any means he can. If you honestly believe that once he and his few hundred of the self appointed great and good have got their grubby hands on power they will hold free nationwide elections, knowing that the result would be their annihilation at the ballot box, you are clearly capable of believing six impossible things before breakfast!

[diehard60]

" unelected ′People′s Council′ which would transform the nation into "absolute democracy"." Question????? How can an un-elected government be full democracy?????????? But I think he really means absolute dictatorship.