Thai Democrats resolve to boycott February 2 election

[dru2]

Finally Benito Sutheppi and his brownshirts reveal their true colors!

That any posters here from democratic countries, can defend this fascist behaviour is beyond me!!

Compared to the idea of a "peoples council" of the elite, North Korea looks like a democracy!!

And no, I am not a fan of Thaksin.

No, you are just a complete idiot if you think anywhere - anywhere in this world - is worse than the DPRK. What a dumbo!

[monkeycountry]

Everyone rattles on here about the Democrats not upholding democracy and the law in Thailand. Do most people here believe Thailand is a democracy, and if so do the current government work in a democratic way? Its a Shinawatra dictatorship, who now have also bought some of the military. The ordinary people of Thailand deserve a better government who work for the people. Something needs to be done.

Who are you to talk about Shinawatra dictatorship maybe you do not known but they work for the people. Did you ever meet any Shinawatra's? Where do you get your ideas about them do you known anyone except me that has meet them?

Work for SOME of the people based on geography. Why do you think the rural poor in the south don't vote for him?

Harry, you sound like Sarah Palin who thought she was an expert on foreign policy because she could see Russia from her home :-)

If the Shinawatras are really working for the people, why does virtually every financial institution in the world urge them to stop the rice scam?

Edited December 21, 2013 by monkeycountry

[sjaak327]

Does anyone know what is the legal situation regarding an opposition party refusing to participate in a general election? Does this nullify any result even if there is an overwhelming majority for the PTP?

The election can continue as normal. Where there is only one candidate in an electorate, that candidate has to get more than 20% of the vote. (Voters can vote "None of the above".)

Parliament can't be formed if less than 95% of the seats are filled.

In the 2006 election, because there weren't enough seats filled, they couldn't form parliament, which meant that the MPs couldn't elect a PM, and the PM couldn't form government.

And this is exactly the problem. By boycotting the elections, the democrats have the opportunety to frustrate the system due to their popularity in the south. This should have been amended with the 2007 constitution as it is quite clearly wrong. All that is needed is to mandate a lower amount of seats having to be filled (like 70%) and after this have by elections. That way no single political party can willingly frustrate the system.

This is exactly the undemocratic part of the election boycot by the "democrats". They are using their supporters to prevent the democratic system from functioning. Once again they show their complete disregard for people in the north and north-east.

I find it unbelieveable that people that support democracy in general can support this kind of behavior, as any way you look at it, it is undemocratic.

Democracy is more than just election and then "shut up for the next 4 years.". I can understand that an opposition, which is not even given the time to speak in parliament, which is tyrannized by the majority, has absolutely no democratic role to play in such a system, as we have seen in the recent past.

This must be reformed first, otherwise such elections are but window dressing for a system which is fundamentally undemocratic, because the majority is abusing the system.

Of course it is more than that. Of course how effective has the opposition been, and how can the opposition ever hope to beat the PT when they don't even field candidates in an election.

Reform in a democratic system can only be done when those reforms have a clear electoral mandate, not the way it was done in 2007 when the abolished 1999 constitution was replaced with a less democratic one by a militairy government in a take it or leave it vote.

Why are the democrats hell bend on circumventing the democratic system, instead of using the system to their advantage, and why have they yet to figure out that Thaksin's popularity isn't rooted in vote buying, and that their actions (boycotting elections, trying to ride on a coup) are only making things worse.

Contrary to their own belief, the Thai electorate isn't stupid nor is it uneducated.

[Spalpeen]

"Democrats to boycott election" HaHaHa! What next, police to boycott bribes, fishermen to boycott boats, army to boycott guns?

Here's the only number that matters....Thai army, about 250,000 personnel, many tied up in the south. Redshirt voters, about 15 million. The generals know this.

[rreddin]

In reality, what is the point in the Dems going into the election??.....they're going to lose big time....!

Now they're going to lose bigger time!....

There cannot be an effective government without an opposition.....someone's gonna have to take the lead here....and all I can see is the impish military.....!

An alternative view: The Dems are scared their party will be banned. So, announcing the Democratic Party will not contest the next election gives them a way back in under the guise of a new political party.

[Ulic]

Can't win the election so stall to give Suthep time to force either an interim government election or military coup

so Suthep can install his hand picked council and elections can be eliminated.

[Maestro]

Interesting take on the election......

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25475644

Yes, quite interesting. Haven't seen the part about the general mentioned before.

21 December 2013 Last updated at 11:00 GMT

Thai opposition to boycott 2 February elections

Thailand's main opposition Democrat Party has announced it will boycott snap elections set for 2 February.

Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva told a news conference it would not be fielding candidates, saying: "Thai politics is at a failed stage".

...

General Prayuth Chan-ocha has proposed a "people's assembly" - made up of civilians from both sides, not the leaders, to heal the divisions.

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25475644

-- BBC 2013-12-21

[Tedhead]

Instead of insulting people and throwing names around, it would be interesting to explain why the Democrats decided to boycot the elections, what will happen?

Will they simply be excluded so that Pheu Thai and affiliate will get 100% of the votes or will the election be cancelled for lack of at least 2 candidates per circonscription?

If the latter is true, then indeed the Democrates have been smart, because that means the care-taker government is in big troubles. They cannot decide and new government expenses (like paying the rice pledging farmers etc), which could play into the hands of the Thaksin opposition.

But it would give the opposition an opportunity to educate people all around the country what is wrong with Thaksin and Cronies, something we have not see too much lately.

Does someone know what are the consequences of the election boycot?

The Democrats' boycott of the election is simply because they can't win it. If Suthep, portions of the military, judiciary etc want to wrest control from PT, then they will have to do outside the democratic process, because that's a game they keep losing.

But let's dig a little deeper and work out the two possible scenarios. Scenario one is that there's a general election and the Democrats take part in it. Just the simple fact of having an election takes 90% of the steam out of the street protests. Wadda we want?!! Elections!!! When do we want them?!! Now...oh hang on... So the impending election refocuses everyone on the democratic process. The lack of street protest robs the yellow shirt backers of the ability to speak of civil war, suspension of democracy, establishment of a People's Assembly etc. Then the election happens. The Democrats lose - they always do - and then what? Every card has been played. The Democrats have nothing. A Pheu Thai government is returned.

Scenario two is a boycott of the election and a concentration on street protests. Much more promising. Make the country ungovernable, make the democratic process redundant and mutter increasingly about civil war. Why, if the country is on the verge of collapse, the army would have to step in to save the state itself. It would be rude not to. Army steps in. Judiciary and palace do the necessary legal manoeuvres to suspend democracy. Leave the junta in place for ten years and take a look at at this whole 'democracy' thing again some time after 2025.

You can see why scenario two might appeal to Suthep and friends more.

[CMBob]

Once again I can't beleive how stupid some people are... In my 11+ years of living in Thailand I have been in the villages for many elections, and for elections "All Parties" have their supporters who are giving out Baht, Gifts or both to encourage people to Vote for their party... And the supposedly unintelligent, uneducated villagers just take the Baht / Gifts and then vote for whomever they prefer regardless of who paid what... In my view that makes them the smarter ones, they vote their choice and still get baht / gifts for all...

Exactly right. I've asked Thai friends who they accept money from and they quickly tell me that they take all the money offered by all the parties. When I ask them if they feel obligated to vote for whoever gives them money or even the most money, they also quickly tell me "no." They say that they vote in secret and they assert they vote for who they want to vote for.

That has been the consistent answer I've received from trusted Thais over the years and I have no reason to question their responses or veracity. The claim by those who say that Peua Thai (or Thai Rak Thai, People's Power Party, etc.) only wins because of money paid for votes is simply a claim borne out of bias and ignorance of the reality on the ground.

[bkkgooner]

What exactly is this magic political reform they want before an election anyway?

Reform has to happen in a democracy, isn't it just such a pity that decent Thais have NO ONE to vote for?

[Alwyn]

So many people have told me it;s a fact about Thaksin and Suthep is squeaky clean that it must all be true if they say so then. I will change my opinion immediately, I will stop thinking Suthep is a maniac and blame my flatulence on Thaksin

[Netizen]

Thaksin destroyed democracy in Thailand by liberal use of his wallet to buy the loyalty of PTP elected representatives. This disgraceful and public act of corruption guarantees that democracy cannot take root.

The only recourse the opposition has is street demonstrations as they have proven.

Thaksin publicly purchased the prime minister position for Yingluck as his stooge.

Edited December 21, 2013 by Netizen

[Mackie]

Once again I can't beleive how stupid some people are... In my 11+ years of living in Thailand I have been in the villages for many elections, and for elections "All Parties" have their supporters who are giving out Baht, Gifts or both to encourage people to Vote for their party... And the supposedly unintelligent, uneducated villagers just take the Baht / Gifts and then vote for whomever they prefer regardless of who paid what... In my view that makes them the smarter ones, they vote their choice and still get baht / gifts for all...

Exactly right. I've asked Thai friends who they accept money from and they quickly tell me that they take all the money offered by all the parties. When I ask them if they feel obligated to vote for whoever gives them money or even the most money, they also quickly tell me "no." They say that they vote in secret and they assert they vote for who they want to vote for.

That has been the consistent answer I've received from trusted Thais over the years and I have no reason to question their responses or veracity. The claim by those who say that Peua Thai (or Thai Rak Thai, People's Power Party, etc.) only wins because of money paid for votes is simply a claim borne out of bias and ignorance of the reality on the ground.

So then you might as well live on the Mars. The current government just deliberately lost 12 billion USD just to stay popular in the rural Thailand and you talk about the reality. They blew massive hole in Thai economy which is already causing all sorts of problems. But hey, let's talk about your anonymous friends and what they say.

[gfinbkk]

What do I know, but here are my thoughts. Thailand is not a democracy, it is a constitutional monarcy. However, the voting process is supposed to be the foundation of the democratic side of the government. The voting structure and accountability is a joke. I do not believe anyone can argue against that. For a few Baht anyone will vote for whom ever they are told to vote for. Is that really democracy? Elections are a fraud.

Until elections are properly governed and honest how can any party feel it is legitimate?

Thailand is not ready for true democracy, in my opinion. Suthep may have his history and all, but the idea of reforms before elections seems to be a way to true democracy. Get people who truly care about Thailand to sit down and talk about what needs to be done and think about it how it can be done.

Its difficult not to mention political names, but when a PM successfully changes tax laws that favors him, and not the country he governs, before a major business deal takes place screams for reform.

Thais want democracy, but most do not know what it really is.

Parties need to sit down and talk about real issues and Chuwit should be at the table, as well, to tell the real truth about the corruption and the real issues in Thailand. He, the corrupt one, should be the mouthpiece.

Maybe some eyes will open up and democracy will have a chance.

[boomerangutang]

Contest the election, and push for reform before during and after it. If the Dems had the cojones to run, and won, then they could get the the reform process going. For the Dems to expect PT to clean up their electorial pig shit prior to an election (or anytime) is borderline ridiculous. Reason: Ultimately this whole thing reflects badly on the Thai people, and the ding dongs they've allowed to grab power (and grab the big money which comes with political power).

[connda]

Thai Democrats resolve to boycott February 2 election

I'm sure that will suit the Puea Thai Party just fine. Landslide victory at the polls.

[dukebowling]

The general hate rally cry against Thaksin reminds me of another in history - Hitler and his rally for the country to hate the Jews. Point to a scapegoat for all the country's problems and create a mob. Hate is the heart of a mob's mentality. Truly sad.

I still can't find any solid evidence of what Thaksin did wrong. Can anyone tell me?

[StealthEnergiser]

Thai Democrats resolve to boycott February 2 election

I'm sure that will suit the Puea Thai Party just fine. Landslide victory at the polls.

Do you honestly think the election will go ahead ?

[spirit47]

Reforms are needed before election, the Dems make the right decision. After there push, the PTP normaly must be banned. No Institution have the power and the people to take care the Constitution, millions of people stand up to fight this Government. An election in Februrary is only burning Taxpayers money. But I dont believe, that there will be an election...

[mca]

I feel for the millions of Thais who have no interest in politics and just want to get on with the real stuff like their lives, their jobs, their families and read stuff like "civil war", "Democrats doing this", "Suthep's doing that", "Yingluck's doing the other"," "retired army generals say this" etc. and think <deleted>.

[TVGerry]

The general hate rally cry against Thaksin reminds me of another in history - Hitler and his rally for the country to hate the Jews. Point to a scapegoat for all the country's problems and create a mob. Hate is the heart of a mob's mentality. Truly sad.

I still can't find any solid evidence of what Thaksin did wrong. Can anyone tell me?

Let's throw in some historical names to make us look intelligent. Ooo Hitler! Ahh Musolini!

Well Thaksin reminds me off Mugabe and Marcos!

[rebelplatoon]

Some people don't seem to understand why this is. It is NOT because Suthep wants to control anything else but the WAY elections are being held. During the Mr. "T" regime the constituents have been altered to fit the TRT party. Very large constituents with large numbers of voters would give one party only one seat (These they changed and were Democratic strongholds) much smaller constituents, with much fewer people were divided up in several constituents with one seat each. This means that even when people did not vote a 100% for the TRT they would still have a "glorious victory" over the Democrats.

In numbers: The TRT and Dems had respectively: 15,744,190 and 11,433,762 people vote for them. A difference in % of the population of resp. (TRT, Dems) 48.41% and 35.15%. (say 13%) This was NOT reflected in the seats in Parliament by the self dividing rule of the TRT who changed the constituents. (TRT/ Dems) 265 seats against 159 seats or in seats 106 (!!). If this had been in the range of anything like 225 to 196 this would have been a fair and acceptable result. (the difference being about 13%) or in seats 29. This would have allowed (just an example) the Democrats to team up with some other parties and still form a Government. Besides in the opposition it would have given them lots more control.

Then due to certain constituents differences it could have been anything in the range of 210 to 235 for the TRT and 190 to 220 for the Dems and it would be acceptable, justifiable and explainable.

NOW do we understand why Suthep wants a hand in the way the elections are set up?

Mind you, I do not agree with an interim Government and all that, unless it would be an agreed upon (by both parties) Business Government to boost the country back on the map first. But that would demand restraint, patience and understanding. Values that are the foundation of Buddhism, but are hard to be found in politricks.

Just my two cents worth....

[boomerangutang]

Once again I can't beleive how stupid some people are... In my 11+ years of living in Thailand I have been in the villages for many elections, and for elections "All Parties" have their supporters who are giving out Baht, Gifts or both to encourage people to Vote for their party... And the supposedly unintelligent, uneducated villagers just take the Baht / Gifts and then vote for whomever they prefer regardless of who paid what... In my view that makes them the smarter ones, they vote their choice and still get baht / gifts for all...

Exactly right. I've asked Thai friends who they accept money from and they quickly tell me that they take all the money offered by all the parties. When I ask them if they feel obligated to vote for whoever gives them money or even the most money, they also quickly tell me "no." They say that they vote in secret and they assert they vote for who they want to vote for.

That has been the consistent answer I've received from trusted Thais over the years and I have no reason to question their responses or veracity. The claim by those who say that Peua Thai (or Thai Rak Thai, People's Power Party, etc.) only wins because of money paid for votes is simply a claim borne out of bias and ignorance of the reality on the ground.

Perhaps true in some regions, but not in my part of northern Thailand. I know for a fact that the Pu Yai Ban (PYB, a.k.a. village headmen) of a neighboring villages know just how each of their minions vote. PYB are the key to the corrupt election process. They are held personally responsible (via carrot and stick) for contributing their villages' block of votes to the PT. If the PYB succeed, they get very nice gifts (new SUV, etc). If any village minion doesn't vote they way he/she is paid to vote, the PYB (and possibly the whole village) find out, and each stray voter is penalized. Do you want to know the various ways to penalize an errant voter? I can make a list, if you want. Edited December 21, 2013 by boomerangutang

[Tedhead]

What do I know, but here are my thoughts. Thailand is not a democracy, it is a constitutional monarcy. However, the voting process is supposed to be the foundation of the democratic side of the government. The voting structure and accountability is a joke. I do not believe anyone can argue against that. For a few Baht anyone will vote for whom ever they are told to vote for. Is that really democracy? Elections are a fraud.

Until elections are properly governed and honest how can any party feel it is legitimate?

Thailand is not ready for true democracy, in my opinion. Suthep may have his history and all, but the idea of reforms before elections seems to be a way to true democracy. Get people who truly care about Thailand to sit down and talk about what needs to be done and think about it how it can be done.

Its difficult not to mention political names, but when a PM successfully changes tax laws that favors him, and not the country he governs, before a major business deal takes place screams for reform.

Thais want democracy, but most do not know what it really is.

Parties need to sit down and talk about real issues and Chuwit should be at the table, as well, to tell the real truth about the corruption and the real issues in Thailand. He, the corrupt one, should be the mouthpiece.

Maybe some eyes will open up and democracy will have a chance.

Everything you say is true, but here's the thing. Neither I, nor you, or a boy named Sue get to choose the results of democratic elections. That's the damnable thing about democracy. Elections are not exercises in sagacity, perspicuity or taste. They're popularity contests and if you don't like the results of this one, then win the next one.

As for the 'not ready for democracy' argument, you could make that self-same argument as forcefully, perhaps more forcefully, about the American electorate who saw fit to elect George W. Bush twice with all the global ramifications that his election ended up having. (We could also note about the 2000 election that it's not just the Thai judiciary that gets involved in tipping the scales in a particular direction). We could further note the multi-billion dollar corruption of Cheney, Halliburton and government contracts.

Yet no one suggested the suspension of American democracy. Because that would, well, ludicrous.

[Bluespunk]

"Democrats resolve to boycott election"

Oh <deleted>, what is going on? The dems cannot be buying into suthep's fascist BS. What choice does the country now have? A criminal PT who will continue to drive the country into bankruptcy through greed and idiotic schemes or the nationalistic, fascist BS Suthep is pushing. The poisoned chalace or the hangman's noose. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

What they can do if they don't have the funds for vote buying?

To make a reform panel against corruption and vote buying isn't fascist....can't recall Hitler or Mussolini fought for clean Democracy....

No, but both claimed they alone had the vision to save their nation, they both claimed that the suspension of democracy was required in order to root out the evils of the current system, they both spouted nationalistic rhetoric about how others were betraying the nation. Suthep is a fascist who has no tolerance for any way or system that does not support his vision. He has hijacked a movement that legitimately protested the corruption and incompetence of PT. I completely accept the argument that the system in Thailand is flawed because their is no way of reigning in govts that blatantly manipulate the electoral process, ignore or subvert the law, enrich themselves at the expense of the country. Reform is required but suthep is not the man to bring it about. His solution is no better than the problem.

[MrSlatersParrot]

Saw this coming 50 days ago. Think the PTP realizes it's time to mobilize now. And so now it really begins. I fear for the people of Thailand who go about their business, day in and out, without political aspiration or purpose. They simply want to live their lives, raise their families and feel safe.

What is the point of government? Of politics?

It's the art of the do-able.

To enable people to get on with their lives under the rule of the law.

take that away you have chaos and anarchy and then you have the rule of the gun. Much like we have seen in many african states.

Perhaps what these protestors need is a state within a state. A hiso Bangkok with its own little government and the real governments ministries spread throughout the country with elected governors elected village heads etc.

[Puccini]

...

The Democrats' boycott of the election is simply because they can't win it. If Suthep, portions of the military, judiciary etc want to wrest control from PT, then they will have to do outside the democratic process, because that's a game they keep losing.

But let's dig a little deeper and work out the two possible scenarios. Scenario one is that there's a general election and the Democrats take part in it. Just the simple fact of having an election takes 90% of the steam out of the street protests. Wadda we want?!! Elections!!! When do we want them?!! Now...oh hang on... So the impending election refocuses everyone on the democratic process. The lack of street protest robs the yellow shirt backers of the ability to speak of civil war, suspension of democracy, establishment of a People's Assembly etc. Then the election happens. The Democrats lose - they always do - and then what? Every card has been played. The Democrats have nothing. A Pheu Thai government is returned.

Scenario two is a boycott of the election and a concentration on street protests. Much more promising. Make the country ungovernable, make the democratic process redundant and mutter increasingly about civil war. Why, if the country is on the verge of collapse, the army would have to step in to save the state itself. It would be rude not to. Army steps in. Judiciary and palace do the necessary legal manoeuvres to suspend democracy. Leave the junta in place for ten years and take a look at at this whole 'democracy' thing again some time after 2025.

You can see why scenario two might appeal to Suthep and friends more.

I see it the same way. This excerpt from the 2006 interim constitution gives an idea about the "necessary legal manoeuvres to suspend democracy" employed at that time:

Whereas the Leader of the Council for Democratic Reform, which successfully took over the administration of the country on 19 September B.E. 2549 (2006), made submissions to His Majesty the King that the reasons for the takeover of power and the abrogation of the Constitution of the Kingdom of Thailand were to stave off further erosion of faith and trust in the countrys administration, to rectify the gross mismanagement of the countrys administration and the failure to check the exercise of State power, which had led to rampant corruption and malfeasance the offenders of which could not be found and punished, resulting in severe political crisis, as well as to heal the widening divisions among the people who were being incited to take sides, eroding unity among the people within the nation and leading to a severe social crisis.

Various sectors of society had tried to resolve this crisis, but their efforts were in vain. Instead, the crisis seemed to have deteriorated to such an extent that armed clashes would ensue, leading to bloodshed and loss of life.

This was considered a grave threat to the democratic system with the King as Head of State, to the economy and to public order.

It was, therefore, necessary to set up a provisional mechanism of governance suitable to prevailing conditions, taking into consideration the rule of law in accordance with the Thai administrative custom of democratic government under the Constitutional Monarchy, the need to restore national unity, the economy and public order, the strengthening of a vigorous system of checks against corruption and an ethical code of conduct, the promotion and protection of the rights and civil liberties of the people, adherence to the United Nations Charter as well as obligations under treaties or international agreements, the promotion of friendly relations with other countries and the philosophy of Sufficiency Economy as a way of life.

At the same time, there was the need to expedite the process of drafting a new Constitution, one which would involve extensive public participation at all stages. In order for all this the case for which having been submitted to His Majesty the King to be achieved, be it, therefore, commanded by His Majesty the King that the following provisions form the Constitution of the Kingdom of Thailand (Interim) until the promulgation of a constitution that is to be drafted and submitted to His Majesty the King.

I bet Suthep has a draft of his interim constitution already written up.

[kingalfred]

Oh isnt it great to hear the PTP red lovers on here jumping up and down " we want our election,we want the same,How dare these people not take part" stamp stamp tantrum . Boo hoo

[fernando widjaja]

well im going to thailand next july but i think there will be republic of nort thailand and kingdom of thailand?

[Thailand]

Oh isnt it great to hear the PTP red lovers on here jumping up and down " we want our election,we want the same,How dare these people not take part" stamp stamp tantrum . Boo hoo

Impressive and eloquent, the sort of quality post that should be pinned for reference.