The Wa

[...Ken]

The Wa .......'interesting' chaps for certain.

I wonder if anyone here has any experience or understanding of the Wa.

Recently, I have learned that the Wa occupied Shan State prior to the migration of the Tai Yai

from Lan na. It seems that the Tai Yai outnumbered the Wa and simply moved in ; resulting with Kham Meuang words being assimilated into the present day Wa language. This appears to be behind the thrust of the Wa (re) occupation of the Shan State.

Obviously, the physical control over Khun Sa's previous empire was a motivator and provided the funds to resettle the Wa into their (possibly) former homeland.

I know very little of this....just interested.

...Ken

[ThaiPauly]

Sorry but I don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Could you start from the begining and tellus Wa's Wa

[Loaded]

I met three members of the United Wa Shan Army (UWSA) at a tea stop on a journey from Mandalay to Taungi about 4 years ago. They rested their weapons against the wall, rolled up a large ball of opium and then smoked it using a waterpipe. The other tea shop customers never even glanced at them, that indicated to me that a holiday snap with my new 'friends' would not be a particularly good idea.

[meadish_sweetball]

Some basic info about the Wa .

A bit about opium poppies.

[sabaijai]

I met three members of the United Wa Shan Army (UWSA) at a tea stop on a journey from Mandalay to Taungi about 4 years ago. They rested their weapons against the wall, rolled up a large ball of opium and then smoked it using a waterpipe. The other tea shop customers never even glanced at them, that indicated to me that a holiday snap with my new 'friends' would not be a particularly good idea.

Never seen anyone smoke opium using a water pipe. Are you sure it was opium? If they were sitting up while smoking it, it was something else. Opium can't be burnt, only cooked.

[sabaijai]

The Wa .......'interesting' chaps for certain.

I wonder if anyone here has any experience or understanding of the Wa.

Recently, I have learned that the Wa occupied Shan State prior to the migration of the Tai Yai

from Lan na. It seems that the Tai Yai outnumbered the Wa and simply moved in ; resulting with Kham Meuang words being assimilated into the present day Wa language. This appears to be behind the thrust of the Wa (re) occupation of the Shan State.

Obviously, the physical control over Khun Sa's previous empire was a motivator and provided the funds to resettle the Wa into their (possibly) former homeland.

I know very little of this....just interested.

...Ken

The Western Wa and related Waic groups - sometimes collectively known as Lawa - were all over what is now northern Thailand, northern Laos and the Shan State well before Tai groups - including what developed into Shan, Siamese, Lao, etc - were in the area. Tai immigration into these areas did supplant the Waic (Wa/Lawa/Luwa/etc), not just in the Shan State but throughout Lanna, particularly in and around Chiang Mai.

For the Wa in northern Shan State to use this as an excuse to attack the Shan is a bit absurd, might as well retake Chiang Mai, a city that was originally founded by nine Lawa families.

More info at Ethnologue

[p1p]

Interesting - How did the Wa come to tie in with the old Kuomintang in running the drug trade?

[Ulysses G.]

I met three members of the United Wa Shan Army (UWSA) at a tea stop on a journey from Mandalay to Taungi about 4 years ago. They rested their weapons against the wall, rolled up a large ball of opium and then smoked it using a waterpipe. The other tea shop customers never even glanced at them, that indicated to me that a holiday snap with my new 'friends' would not be a particularly good idea.

Never seen anyone smoke opium using a water pipe. Are you sure it was opium? If they were sitting up while smoking it, it was something else. Opium can't be burnt, only cooked.

I can verify this.

They were not smoking opium; it was tobacco.

[Tywais]

Never seen anyone smoke opium using a water pipe. Are you sure it was opium? If they were sitting up while smoking it, it was something else. Opium can't be burnt, only cooked.

Actually it is cooked first to remove various compounds to make it more suitable for smoking. Perhaps it was hashish being water piped.

[Loaded]

I met three members of the United Wa Shan Army (UWSA) at a tea stop on a journey from Mandalay to Taungi about 4 years ago. They rested their weapons against the wall, rolled up a large ball of opium and then smoked it using a waterpipe. The other tea shop customers never even glanced at them, that indicated to me that a holiday snap with my new 'friends' would not be a particularly good idea.

Never seen anyone smoke opium using a water pipe. Are you sure it was opium? If they were sitting up while smoking it, it was something else. Opium can't be burnt, only cooked.

I can verify this.

They were not smoking opium; it was tobacco.

I assumed it was opium - a large black ball rolled up and placed in a waterpipe. Definetly not tobacco. I've experienced opium smoked through a pipe before, it has a similar consistency to hash resin and a dull numbing effect - Never been on a trek (in the old days) where you stopped and had a few pipes of opium?

[sabaijai]

Interesting - How did the Wa come to tie in with the old Kuomintang in running the drug trade?

I'm no expert on that aspect of their history, but I would guess that when the KMT renegades fled into northeastern Burma following the communist victory in China, they brought the opium trade with them, and introduced the Wa to the cultivation and refining of opiates. There's an American academic living here in Chiang Mai who probably knows more about Wa involvement in the drug trade than any other living foreigner - Ron Renard, author of The Burmese Connection: Illicit Drugs and the Making of the Golden Triangle (1996) and several other books on the trade.

He recently gave a lecture on the Wa for the Informal Northern Thai Group in Chiang Mai. There was a report in the Chiang Mai Mail awhile back. Ron has travelled in the Wa Special Region a couple of times, consulting for the UNODC.

[Ulysses G.]

Opium must be smoked with a special pipe in which the flame never actually touches the drug in order to obtain the desired results. That is why one has to lie down on one's side while smoking. I believe that this is what Sabai Jai means by "cooked".

By the way, chasing the dragon on tin foil, or mixing the opium with ganja or tabacco will not get the drug user stoned either. Eating it will do the trick, but it packs a powerful punch!

[...Ken]

Interesting - How did the Wa come to tie in with the old Kuomintang in running the drug trade?

Prior to the overthrow of Khun Sa and the MTA the Wa were not running the drug trade, but would be producers and act as armed transport for Khun Sa and the various Chinese groups.

Since this thread has wandered off to an opium discussion....

The Wa words for cutting the opium pod are "gat phen' which are the same/similar to the Thai words for the same process. Since the Wa have been historically a very insular people you might believe that it was the Tai Yai who introduced the Wa to opium cultivation.

...Ken

[p1p]

Never felt the urge to experiment with it.

Morphine makes me feel so ill I have actually prefered the pain to the opiate buzz in the past.

Now for that damned Moderator's hat again; We are on thin ice here because discussion of illegal drugs is specifically verboten by the TV rules & Regs. So please back to original subject for further posts.

[Ajarn]

The proper smoking position

[chanchao]

LOL. Get a bigger moderator hat, p1p. (Or a large club. )

[Ajarn]

LOL. Get a bigger moderator hat, p1p. (Or a large club. )

No discussion, only photos

[Ulysses G.]

To warn members in case someone tries to trick them into violating the law!

[up-country_sinclair]

i've got a friend who is a pipe collector.....

are these type of pipes available for sale in chiang mai?

perhaps the night market?

would it be considered illegal to mail one out of the country?

[Ulysses G.]

i've got a friend who is a pipe collector.....

are these type of pipes available for sale in chiang mai?

perhaps the night market?

would it be considered illegal to mail one out of the country?

When I first came here, you could easily buy them at the Night Market right along with the weights used to measure opium.

Not sure if you still can.

[tigerbeer]

i've got a friend who is a pipe collector.....

are these type of pipes available for sale in chiang mai?

perhaps the night market?

would it be considered illegal to mail one out of the country?

why not make a trip up to golden triangle, take the boat to the market in Laos. I've seen so many pipes for sale there. chiang mai, never seen any.

[Maejo Man]

why not make a trip up to golden triangle, take the boat to the market in Laos. I've seen so many pipes for sale there. chiang mai, never seen any.

Can you please be more specific TB. What boat? What market? What city?

[tigerbeer]

why not make a trip up to golden triangle, take the boat to the market in Laos. I've seen so many pipes for sale there. chiang mai, never seen any.

Can you please be more specific TB. What boat? What market? What city?

oppss realized that the mekong does flow all through Laos. sorry. well the place is Donsao Island, just across the border from Golden Triangle. There are touristy little boats that take u on a small ride along the river showing u the three borders. prices are about 400 to 600 per boat and can accomodate up to 6 people. they would ask you if you would like to go to the market at Laos, and let you shop there until you are ready to go back. When you get to the market, they (the Laos officer) charge you THB20 as an "entrance fee". I have seen pipes for sale there together with many interesting items.

[Maejo Man]

OK that explains a lot. Yes i know the Island, but you referred to Lao it's self which threw me off somewhat.

It's just that I was interested in an old genuine pipe as a gift for an antique collector friend of mine overseas.

Most of what I have seen there is "new" made to look antique....Thanks

[tigerbeer]

OK that explains a lot. Yes i know the Island, but you referred to Lao it's self which threw me off somewhat.

It's just that I was interested in an old genuine pipe as a gift for an antique collector friend of mine overseas.

Most of what I have seen there is "new" made to look antique....Thanks

ah sorry to dissapoint you MM. antiques, if there is a chance of finding something old for sale, why not try near the JJ market just after Kamtiang flower market? I have seen many stalls set up on the roadside selling antiques just before you reach Royal Peninsula hotel if you come from Lotus side/Superhighway. They just might have what you are looking for. (if they are still there)

[Maejo Man]

Thanks TB I'm through there every other day, and all they seem to have is junk. Maybe I'll find what I'm looking for in Mae Sot next trip...Thanks

[Johpa]

The Wa .......'interesting' chaps for certain.

I wonder if anyone here has any experience or understanding of the Wa.

Recently, I have learned that the Wa occupied Shan State prior to the migration of the Tai Yai

from Lan na. It seems that the Tai Yai outnumbered the Wa and simply moved in ; resulting with Kham Meuang words being assimilated into the present day Wa language. This appears to be behind the thrust of the Wa (re) occupation of the Shan State.

Obviously, the physical control over Khun Sa's previous empire was a motivator and provided the funds to resettle the Wa into their (possibly) former homeland.

I know very little of this....just interested.

...Ken

The Wa and related Mon'Khmer groups were certainly in the region prior to the arrival of the Tai groups. The first substantial migrations of Tai people into the region were the Shan. Thus when later migrations ventured into the region and encountered the Shan, they gave the name Thai Yai, great Thais, to the Shan and the name stuck even after the newer immigrants, the Khon Muang, became the majority.

For whatever reason, and it is debated, the indigenous Mon-Khmer groups such as the Wa, Lawa, & K'mu were displaced, moving, as displaced groups do, to less desireable lands in the hills and to higher elevations. In northern Thailand, many of these people assimilated to become Khon Muang just as many Mon assimilated to become Thai. I do not know much about the Wa language or its borrowing of words from Kham Muang, but my wife's village was in recent past times a K'mu village and although the people are now Khon Muang, the local slang, especially the men's slang, is very heavily laced with K'mu words.

Khun Sa was not Shan just as his former branch manager (and my former drinking buddy) Laota was not Lisu. I would imagine that the current leaders of the Wa involved in the drug trade are not ethnic Wa.

As far as those pipes, one can easily make them using two pieces of bamboo, a thick piece for the bowl and a thinner piece for the stem. Seal the joint with some wax. They are far too easy to make to believe one could find an "antique" sample.

And without going into detail, one must "cook" the raw substance first. But with the various hill people making far more money these days growing carrots and cabbages, I think any discussion of opium usage in Thailand is for historical reference only.

[...Ken]

OK that explains a lot. Yes i know the Island, but you referred to Lao it's self which threw me off somewhat.

It's just that I was interested in an old genuine pipe as a gift for an antique collector friend of mine overseas.

Most of what I have seen there is "new" made to look antique....Thanks

Some years I was collecting opium culture artifacts for an exhibit and finally gave up. I had enlisted a few neighbourhood chaps who worked for the road department and who working were out in the Wieng Haeng area. I offered a good price for whatever they could retrieve. Nothing of value turned up. The belief was that when the Gov't (years back) when on the opium erradication program they destroyed much of the old paraphenalia.

When Vietnam first opened to tourists I was in Hanoi and bought three new opium pipes, a bamboo one, a carved buffalo bone one and one wooden with abalone type shell inlay. They all had factory stamped Chinese bowls. The quality was quite good except they all had these cheezy plastic mouthpieces. When I got back to Chieng Dao I cut one off to replace it with a carved wooden piece....then I found out it wasn't plastic, but ivory. Two are still intact.

There is/was an antique shop on Loi Kroh run by a Hmong fellow who might be able to source what you are looking for. He has/ had an assortment of antiques such as a few neolithic stone tools, ivory balance scales,Yao spirit knife etc. mixed in with the easier selling tourist crap.

...Ken

[Ricardo]

I once heard a rumour, about a pigmy-tribe who are related to the Wa, called the Do-Wa Diddy-Diddies. Might be related to the Oomy-goomies. But I don't believe everything I hear.