Thai Army strongly slams Thaksin’s lawyer, Robert Amsterdam

[michaeljordan]

I presume you are from New Zealand. Setting aside the obvious lack of balance in your post here, I wonder: would you be happy if the NZ army considered itself unaccountable to the government in your home country? Would you consider NZ a democracy if the army could pick and choose which government it took orders from, according to its political colour?

If this doesn't help you to acquire more perspective, here are some tips:

1. Take a deep breath (perhaps meditate for a while)

2. Forget the demon Thaksin and the (possibly in your eyes) saintly Suthep for a moment.

3. Remember 2010, when the army felt free to take orders from the then-coalition government (with saintly Suthep as deputy PM) and subsequent evidence showed it as close to certain that their bullets killed many of the 90 protesters.

4. Imagine how the families of the 2010 dead will feel if the current protests turn ugly and the army stages a coup (it didn't in 2010, did it?)

4. Open your eyes and ask: have I acquired more perspective? Have I begun to see that there are indeed two sides to this?

Failing that, have another rant and stay amongst the rank and file red/yellow, whose stance appears to be: 'la la la la la not listening I'm right and you're wrong la la la la'.

Time to wind up the cuckoo clock !............................cuckoo...cuckoo...cuckoo...........

If Thailand had not been affected by ruthless, self serving, corrupt and criminal regimes like the Shinawatras, there would be no coups to speak of over the years. In recent times the Shin gang has been the common denominator in all Thailand's major problems, the Army are protecting and serving the Thai people by eradicating these "undesirables". If there is another coup I only hope they do the job properly this time and banish the lot of them to Dubai. Perhaps then the country will have a fair chance of rebuilding an honest and fair democracy.

So if the other side would simply lose elections and let the other side win, there would be no need for coups.

Sounds like a dictatorship you are supporting.

[peterquixote]

good bye Thaksin die now you dog

[noitom]

The colonel said this lawyer will be considered an undesirable person for the country, he said.

Since when is it the decision of an army to consider someone an undesirable person?

The 64K baht question.

[noitom]

As if Thaksin is the only Thai politician or military general or police general who didn't buy their way in to power.

[daboyz1]

PTP won the election in 2011. Thaksin installed his sister as PM. No protests. No one was in the streets raising hell. It was only when they tried to pass a Thaksin amnesty bill at 4 AM that these protests began. That is the catalyst for these protests. To everyone complaining that these protesters are trying to subvert democracy, why didn't they come out in 2011 when PTP won then? This isn't about PTP winning an election. This is about one meglomaniac in Dubai trying to whitewash his crimes. I guess if you take a snapshot in time of the last few weeks, these protests seem like a bunch of elites trying to subvert democracy. If you look at all the events in total since roughly 2005, you'll understand why people are in the streets. They're sick and tired of the country being run by a criminal fugitive and the latest attempt to absolve him of his crimes was the last straw with them. I'm actually a little surprised they didn't come out sooner. Right after Mrs. clone was made PM. I guess people didn't think they would actually go as far as to try and clear Thaskin of all his crimes. If they didn't do that, these folks would be sitting at home right now, not causing mass traffic jams in BKK.

[Maggusoil]

I'd say he's a realist and doesn't look at Thai politics through the lens of western governments.

Well, if one looks at it through the lens of an oppressive totalitarian state such as Zimbabwe or Belarus, then yes, I can see your point.

Nice try. Even you know that comparison is laughable.

I'm looking at this purely from what's on the table.

Democracy has been reduced in people's minds to having a vote. That is for those involved and those looking on.

Party politics guarantee that centralised power groups take precedence in the running of government,

over, for example an independent member of parliament who is directly representing his constituency.

Too many people seem to imagine that a "vote" is the entirety of democracy. After the vote, you just get on

with whatever those you voted for dish out.

The next important ingredient of democracy, is the countries constitution. Thailand has recently had a direct attack on its constitution

from both "parties" in vying for power. The Amnesty bill and the reaction to it and secondly the power mad idiots that used that ruction

to up the ante and try to turn the whole democratic process on it head and run the country with an unelected council. Look at America if you want a great example and remember that recently George Bush attacked his own countries constitution with the Patriot Act.

How did he do that? By the destabilising of the political and social structure brought about by acts of terrorism, which some analysts believe had

domestic roots. Lets not get too bogged down in that comment, but it is laughable that people imagine that there are no hidden, or outside influences in what happens to and within countries, to destabilise the status quo.

It is extremely difficult to penetrate, the real workings of government even in so-called, modern, enlightened "A-list" democracies. That difficulty is always perpetuated by that countries so-called need for the secrecy needed to combat evil forces. Children's book stuff.

I think a very good example, is what happened to the whistle blower Andrew Wilkie in Australia. A straight down the line military university trained, high level intelligence officer, who blew the whistle on the so-called intelligence of weapons of mass destruction which was used to start the Iraq war. Wilkie was sacked and faced a parliamentary enquiry, not in Australia, but in England!

He was reduced to selling carpets in Tasmania. Its a wonder he is not a household name because he came from a far more right wing, conservative background than any of the other famous whistle blowers.

He has since become an effective independent politician, however the 8 pages of his book that the Lords of the English parliament, deemed "inappropriate" for public consumption are still missing from his book, while we sail on in democratic bliss.

What do we have to do to get those 8 pages of his book published? Don't forget that this censorship was not only directed at the citizens of Australia and England but affected every citizen in all the countries of the 'coalition of the willing' that became allies in the Iraq War. Thailand's autocracy has nothing on the machinations of the "democratic?" British Establishment and what it actually controls.

Do you think that most citizens in most of those countries are even aware of that? Or care? Or even have time to care? How about you? Have you thought about it?

People whose governments were all complicit in spending their people's countless billions of money on warfare and directing the profits of that warfare, into the world's most profitable business. The killing game.

Is there anything better we can spend our money on? Apparently not.

I think we can be reasonably sure there are international political influences in the State of Thailand. Destabilising is the field play of the Agent Provocateur. That's a term that has not had enough air play in modern politics, but is appearing lately in the ruminating of a number of academic,

political analysts.

[michaeljordan]

Quite often a non-democratic government, in this case Coupland, is not as stable as one might think.

When you rule through intimidation and violence, it is only a matter of time when the opposition acts upon you with the same.

I think many Farang, who enjoy Thailand and live here, are beginning to become ashamed of the ruling class.

What will Thailand's ruling Elite do should trade sanctions hit the nation due to the non-democratic and violent actions they take to stay in power over elected governments which they cannot defeat fairly?

How poor will Thailand become should trade exports be shut-off?

VERY

How dangerous will Bangkok be for Farang after Trade sanctions are put upon Thailand?

VERY

How fast will the run from Thailand be for Farang?

YEAH--VERY!

Short the Baht and make some money off this coming train wreck and for gosh sake, stay out of the fight because both sides will hurt you if you are not Thai.

Questions?

Will the army split? If so, will the nation split?

Is Cambodia an option?

[daboyz1]

As if Thaksin is the only Thai politician or military general or police general who didn't buy their way in to power.

So are you saying since it was done before, it's ok to continue doing it?

[michaeljordan]

PTP won the election in 2011. Thaksin installed his sister as PM. No protests. No one was in the streets raising hell. It was only when they tried to pass a Thaksin amnesty bill at 4 AM that these protests began. That is the catalyst for these protests. To everyone complaining that these protesters are trying to subvert democracy, why didn't they come out in 2011 when PTP won then? This isn't about PTP winning an election. This is about one meglomaniac in Dubai trying to whitewash his crimes. I guess if you take a snapshot in time of the last few weeks, these protests seem like a bunch of elites trying to subvert democracy. If you look at all the events in total since roughly 2005, you'll understand why people are in the streets. They're sick and tired of the country being run by a criminal fugitive and the latest attempt to absolve him of his crimes was the last straw with them. I'm actually a little surprised they didn't come out sooner. Right after Mrs. clone was made PM. I guess people didn't think they would actually go as far as to try and clear Thaskin of all his crimes. If they didn't do that, these folks would be sitting at home right now, not causing mass traffic jams in BKK.

I politely disagree and please consider these things.

I believe even if Thaksin and his sister had nothing to do with the Reds and Reds started a new party, that the people up North would vote for that new Red party and that the Yellow mobs would indeed protest and push for another coup. The Yellows do not believe in Democracy and I am afraid that the Reds might not either.

The Yellows do not just hate Thaksin. They hate the people up North. The people up North do not just hate the Yellows. They hate the people who back them. The leaders are not the problem. The problem is that the two sides cannot reach an agreement as to how a modern Thailand will go forward.

It is inaccurate to think it is just the leaders that cause this fight.

I think you could nominate a dead rat and put red on his back and he would win the election.

The Yellows would vote for a dead rat as long as he wore their yellow.

Just my view.

This fight will not end just because the leaders change.

[daboyz1]

I politely disagree and please consider these things.

PTP won the election in 2011. Thaksin installed his sister as PM. No protests. No one was in the streets raising hell. It was only when they tried to pass a Thaksin amnesty bill at 4 AM that these protests began. That is the catalyst for these protests. To everyone complaining that these protesters are trying to subvert democracy, why didn't they come out in 2011 when PTP won then? This isn't about PTP winning an election. This is about one meglomaniac in Dubai trying to whitewash his crimes. I guess if you take a snapshot in time of the last few weeks, these protests seem like a bunch of elites trying to subvert democracy. If you look at all the events in total since roughly 2005, you'll understand why people are in the streets. They're sick and tired of the country being run by a criminal fugitive and the latest attempt to absolve him of his crimes was the last straw with them. I'm actually a little surprised they didn't come out sooner. Right after Mrs. clone was made PM. I guess people didn't think they would actually go as far as to try and clear Thaskin of all his crimes. If they didn't do that, these folks would be sitting at home right now, not causing mass traffic jams in BKK.

I believe even if Thaksin and his sister had nothing to do with the Reds and Reds started a new party, that the people up North would vote for that new Red party and that the Yellow mobs would indeed protest and push for another coup. The Yellows do not believe in Democracy and I am afraid that the Reds might not either.

The Yellows do not just hate Thaksin. They hate the people up North. The people up North do not just hate the Yellows. They hate the people who back them. The leaders are not the problem. The problem is that the two sides cannot reach an agreement as to how a modern Thailand will go forward.

It is inaccurate to think it is just the leaders that cause this fight.

I think you could nominate a dead rat and put red on his back and he would win the election.

The Yellows would vote for a dead rat as long as he wore their yellow.

Just my view.

This fight will not end just because the leaders change.

I guess we'll never know, because Thaksin will never release his grip on a portion of Thai politics. I'll be curious how to see how much the people in Isaan continue to support Thaksin and his proxies since the rice bribe seems to be blowing up in their face. I don't believe it is inaccurate in the least to describe Thaksin's policies as supporting class warfare. That's how he got elected in the first place. That's where he gets his power. He smartly understood that there was an untapped voting base in Isaan that was being ignored. He promised them the world and delivered enough to keep them somewhat happy. In the mean time filling his own pockets. I mean seriously "All Thais will be rich in 6 months" What kind of campaign promise is that?

You're right that this fight may not end simply because the leaders change, but a good start is to rid the country of Thaksin's influences. Until that happens, we'll never really know. He refuses to allow that though. You have to admit, it's like giving the people that disagree with him the big middle finger by making his sister the PM. People around here like to piss and moan about Abhisit not winning elections. What election has Yingluck won? She's party list #1. At least back in the day Abhisit ran in a local election and won a seat that way.

On a somewhat unrelated note I saw on Bangkok Bank's webiste the other day that the govt. is selling bonds and offering 3.85% per annum. How is that possible? Seems like they're desperate for cash.

[Maggusoil]

PTP won the election in 2011. Thaksin installed his sister as PM. No protests. No one was in the streets raising hell. It was only when they tried to pass a Thaksin amnesty bill at 4 AM that these protests began. That is the catalyst for these protests. To everyone complaining that these protesters are trying to subvert democracy, why didn't they come out in 2011 when PTP won then? This isn't about PTP winning an election. This is about one meglomaniac in Dubai trying to whitewash his crimes. I guess if you take a snapshot in time of the last few weeks, these protests seem like a bunch of elites trying to subvert democracy. If you look at all the events in total since roughly 2005, you'll understand why people are in the streets. They're sick and tired of the country being run by a criminal fugitive and the latest attempt to absolve him of his crimes was the last straw with them. I'm actually a little surprised they didn't come out sooner. Right after Mrs. clone was made PM. I guess people didn't think they would actually go as far as to try and clear Thaskin of all his crimes. If they didn't do that, these folks would be sitting at home right now, not causing mass traffic jams in BKK.

This is quite spot on, however, what it has raised since has been a profound escalation of the awareness, that the side of politics that should

present the checks and balances available in democratic government, are as hairy as the ape in Dubai. Scary hairy.

[ianf]

It is not Amsterdam who is narrow minded with a hidden agenda - it is the Thai armed forces who are the biggest hindrance for real democracy in Thailand. The army chief should have been removed a long time ago and replaced by a professional soldier - if there is such a thing in Thailand.

No one is actually surprised that you are wholeheartedly endorsing a proven liar and accept lies and propaganda as truth. That speaks volumes about your own character.

Anyway it appears that you don't understand how Thai political system works. It's a constitutional monarchy. So the priorities are different. When soldiers take oath they swear to protect the independence and the sovereignty of the state, the security of the monarchy, national interests, and government administration under a democratic regime with the King as Head of State. So you'd better pay more attention to wording of the oath and the order of priorities.

yes sure hahaha....but you are surely not talking about the Thai army here!

Or better their leadership!

The single most corrupt entity in this country - they have been robbing the country blind since they exist! The leadership has only two priorities - to fill their deep pockets and protect the way of life for the corrupt elite.

You must be new to Thailand - you know what an oath means in this country? It is not worth the paper it is written on!

They are a business enterprise using tax payers money for personal gain - not accountable to anybody.Or why do you think they have billions in "secret military funds" which can not be scrutinized?

Why not have the armed forces leadership personal wealth declared - oh I forgot they will not do that - because nobody will force them to!

The glorious army with the most generals in the world - has been fighting mostly their own people in the last 50 years! If they encounter an enemy who fights back they don't look so good!

It's strange that when I talk country people, they love the army, but absolutely hate the police. It's strange that at Mae On the head of Bangkok police has a massive house and 30 staff, but the ex-army senior officer has a small house and coffee bar opposite. It;s strange that when I went across two check points not far from the Burma border, the army boys would not accept a gift of some energy drinks, whereas the police did. I think my experience and those of many people I know does not accord with the blinkered view of some posters here. They talk of the army as if we are in Burma. Chalk and cheese.

[ianf]

PTP won the election in 2011. Thaksin installed his sister as PM. No protests. No one was in the streets raising hell. It was only when they tried to pass a Thaksin amnesty bill at 4 AM that these protests began. That is the catalyst for these protests. To everyone complaining that these protesters are trying to subvert democracy, why didn't they come out in 2011 when PTP won then? This isn't about PTP winning an election. This is about one meglomaniac in Dubai trying to whitewash his crimes. I guess if you take a snapshot in time of the last few weeks, these protests seem like a bunch of elites trying to subvert democracy. If you look at all the events in total since roughly 2005, you'll understand why people are in the streets. They're sick and tired of the country being run by a criminal fugitive and the latest attempt to absolve him of his crimes was the last straw with them. I'm actually a little surprised they didn't come out sooner. Right after Mrs. clone was made PM. I guess people didn't think they would actually go as far as to try and clear Thaskin of all his crimes. If they didn't do that, these folks would be sitting at home right now, not causing mass traffic jams in BKK.

I politely disagree and please consider these things.

I believe even if Thaksin and his sister had nothing to do with the Reds and Reds started a new party, that the people up North would vote for that new Red party and that the Yellow mobs would indeed protest and push for another coup. The Yellows do not believe in Democracy and I am afraid that the Reds might not either.

The Yellows do not just hate Thaksin. They hate the people up North. The people up North do not just hate the Yellows. They hate the people who back them. The leaders are not the problem. The problem is that the two sides cannot reach an agreement as to how a modern Thailand will go forward.

It is inaccurate to think it is just the leaders that cause this fight.

I think you could nominate a dead rat and put red on his back and he would win the election.

The Yellows would vote for a dead rat as long as he wore their yellow.

Just my view.

This fight will not end just because the leaders change.

Absolute nonsense. Eg: my wife is a farm girl from the south east Cambodia border. She likes Isaan and the people, she loves the army, her family same, she hates Thaksin; her neighbours in the hills the same etc etc boring etc. Don't jump to conclusions without evidence to reinforce your ideological point.

[Thait Spot]

Amsterdam is an undesirable person in any country.

Really? Have you informed the UK government where he practices as a solicitor?

Did you advise Canada? He was educated there and his firm maintains an office in Toronto?

Did you call up the US State Department and tell them that Mr. Amsterdam, who was born in the USA, must close his office in the USA?

Oddly enough, Mr. Amsterdam is regularly consulted by the aforementioned countries' government officials and political representatives. He continues to represent people oppressed in some countries and to receive platitudes from various human rights organizations. He must be doing something that makes him worth their support and/or interest.

Pure invention.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[ianf]

what has this got to do with Thaksin? - The army was as corrupt as it is - long before - during - and after Thaksin. They killed Thai people since the 30s - during the 70s, 80 s 90 s and until recently - it does not matter who is in government.

I would love to see any civilized country where the army kills almost 90 protestors by suffocating them - and NOBODY is held accountable! The officer in charge was later promoted!

The larger part of the armed forces leadership is arrogant, power hungry and corrupt - a waste of tax payers money.

Any laws passed after a coup by them should be void and their self proclaimed amnesties canceled - they should be arrested and tried for treason - already having their replacements ready to take over the reign immediately during their arrest.

The Thai armed forces should be reduced to 1/3 of their size and turned into a modern professional army with professional leadership.

As long as this bunch of children is around playing their games this country can never progress!

To say that the army 'killed almost 90 people' is to continue the Thaksin lie. Anyone with any acumen knows this.

[godden]

Try and imagine Thailand with out an army.

[daboyz1]

It's strange that when I talk country people, they love the army, but absolutely hate the police. It's strange that at Mae On the head of Bangkok police has a massive house and 30 staff, but the ex-army senior officer has a small house and coffee bar opposite. It;s strange that when I went across two check points not far from the Burma border, the army boys would not accept a gift of some energy drinks, whereas the police did. I think my experience and those of many people I know does not accord with the blinkered view of some posters here. They talk of the army as if we are in Burma. Chalk and cheese.

I think that says alot. I don't know much about the coups prior to 2006, but it seemed to me that the army took over in 2006 to temporarily fill a power vacuum. The held elections the next year, and handed over power to the winners. The winners happened to be Thaksin's party. Now if these generals were so hell bent on being in power, why did they relinquish power then? The cops on the other hand are useless. They didn't do anything to stop what happened in 2010 when an armed camp was built in the middle of Bangkok. It took the military to clear them out. Maybe if the cops did their job, not so many would have died.

[Thait Spot]

The army deserves to be criticized. They do very little to help calm the situation. Keep staying in the cave and avoid your duty.

And what on earth do you think the army's job is?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Prbkk]

The way the police and the military manage money is a little like "new money, old money" in the west. One groups tends to flaunt it, the other is more careful about public displays of wealth. The old money group has vastly more real assets than the others

[waza]

There is a horrible stench in this room, seem whenever an Amsterdam topic comes up the 50 shades of red fornicate over each other to defend his honour. Like seagulls fighting over that last juicy chip.

[moonao]

Amsterdam is spot on with his assessment. If you don't like the truth and it irritates you, the for your own sake, leave this topic.

[noitom]

Shameful that the Thai army chief would stoop so low as to publicly comment that Amsterdam or anyone in particular is an "undesirable."

[Roadman]

Shameful that the Thai army chief would stoop so low as to publicly comment that Amsterdam or anyone in particular is an "undesirable."

One does not call a dog shit on the road a chocolate bar. Good on the good general for being courteous and calling crap so lightly. Would love to have a few whiskey's with him and get his views on the peoples court Dubai fugitive convicted criminal Edited January 12, 2014 by Roadman

[animatic]

Since when was it amsterdams place to blast the Thai army.

Oh yes, he is Thaksins mouthpiece so he is talking for the convicted crim.

How dare the army attempt to prevent the chosen one from returning to claim his rightful place as the dictator.

The problem with that is that you would only permit information/news/argument supporting YOUR perspective to be available. It's healthy to be able to hear all sides....even that which might be considered by some to be extreme

.

.

.

Ah, you mean like how, the Democratic Party can openly campaign in the north the last 10 years,

without violent intimidation from Redshirts and TRT / PPP / PTP / Rak Chaing Mai supports?

Yes, this makes it all clear now!

[mikemac]

So if the other side would simply lose elections and let the other side win, there would be no need for coups.

Sounds like a dictatorship you are supporting.

Sounds like you need to brush up on your English language skills if that is the impression you got from my comment.

Read the last sentence I wrote in my comment, an "honest and fair democracy" is a bit different to a dictatorship.

[mikemac]

Amsterdam is spot on with his assessment. If you don't like the truth and it irritates you, the for your own sake, leave this topic.

But if we did that, who would you direct your troll comments at ?

[jayboy]

There is a horrible stench in this room, seem whenever an Amsterdam topic comes up the 50 shades of red fornicate over each other to defend his honour. Like seagulls fighting over that last juicy chip.

How difficult is it to grasp a simple point? I don't see anyone engaged in defending Amsterdam:I certainly have no interest in doing so.

The thread subject matter deals only with his comments on the Thai army and to date these have not been refuted.

Since the observations are undeniably true, the only alternative is to spew random abuse.But I am afraid you and others of your persuasion have lost the argument.

[Arkady]

Maybe not such good timing for anyone ostensibly working for Thaksin to publicly rile the military.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[SjaakNL2013]

If you follow the blog over a longer time you see who write the content. The man who pays the bills from Mr. Amsterdam Mr. Thaksin. But if you try to read between the lines and not see all black and white then there is some ground for what he wrote.

The Army, better speak about the top of the Army, is almost involved in every step the Thai society does. Their influence is much to big and are a serious power in the Thai government without representing any voters.

[mikemac]

There is a horrible stench in this room, seem whenever an Amsterdam topic comes up the 50 shades of red fornicate over each other to defend his honour. Like seagulls fighting over that last juicy chip.

How difficult is it to grasp a simple point? I don't see anyone engaged in defending Amsterdam:I certainly have no interest in doing so.

The thread subject matter deals only with his comments on the Thai army and to date these have not been refuted.

Since the observations are undeniably true, the only alternative is to spew random abuse.But I am afraid you and others of your persuasion have lost the argument.

........................................."Since the observations are undeniably true"............................................

?????????????????????????????

Thanks jayboy, when I read your amazing comment I sprayed coffee all over my laptop screen, again !