We want our rice back, plus compensation, angry Thai farmers say

[webfact]

We want our rice back, plus compensation, angry farmers say
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- A GROUP of farmers in Phitsanulok are demanding that the government return paddy submitted to the government's rice pledging scheme, plus financial compensation for delayed payments for rice.

Instead of waiting for payment of Bt15,000 per tonne for paddy from the tainted scheme, some 150 farmers said yesterday they now want to get their paddy back to sell to normal rice millers, who are ready to immediately give them Bt9,000 per tonne.

"And because of the delay in payments under the scheme, the government should pay affected farmers Bt3,279 per rai of paddy fields as compensation," said Chatree Ampoon, a farmer leader in Phrom Phiram district.

The government has repeatedly postponed payments to farmers who participated in the scheme in recent months. The delay has forced many farmers to turn to loan sharks to get money.

Some 150 farmers rallied at the Indochina Intersection in Phitsanulok yesterday to press for their demands.

Protests by farmers were also being staged in several other provinces.

Kittisak Rattanawaraha, who chairs the Network of Northern Farmers, said if the government failed to pay farmers, it should no longer stay in power.

"We will rise against the government," he warned, adding that if his group managed to get money for a trip to Bangkok, they might join the People's Democratic Reform Committee (PDRC) in its efforts to overthrow the current administration.

The PDRC has demanded that the caretaker government resign to pave way for reform before an election. Its supporters have now occupied major intersections in the capital.

In Tak, a number of farmers have joined hands with PDRC supporters in blocking the City Hall. Lawyers showed up there yesterday also to help farmers prepare lawsuits against relevant authorities over the troubled rice scheme, which has also incurred massive financial losses.

In Nakhon Ratchasima, farmers from some 20 provinces in the Northeast gathered yesterday to prepare their next move, after the government failed to respond to their demand last Friday for immediate payment.

The government is now struggling to secure a loan to finance the scheme, one of the most controversial of Pheu Thai Party's populist policies.


-- The Nation 2014-01-28

[EricBerg]

The demands sound fair enough, provided the rice hasn't yet rotted away.

[Thait Spot]

The farmers clearly know where the blame lies.

Clearly they don't read the distortions of some within this marvellous forum

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Robby nz]

The demands sound fair enough, provided the rice hasn't yet rotted away.

They want the new seasons rice back not the old stuff.

That will continue to rot away as nobody wants it.

[NongKhaiKid]

The farmers clearly know where the blame lies.

Clearly they don't read the distortions of some within this marvellous forum

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

A lot has been written on this forum about the quality of reporting by the international media.

Yesterday Yahoo UK carried a story by a female journalist working for Reuters who was adamant that the farmers in the North and North East were unwavering in their support for the government. I wonder if she did her research without ever leaving Bangkok ?

[Ricardo]

Great idea wasn't it, to help the poor farmers and 'make everyone rich within six months', except it didn't have a fairy-tale ending.

Perhaps once the DSI have finished freezing protesters' bank-accounts, or assembling black-lists, they might try to investigate where all the money has gone, and lay a few charges ?

Meanwhile the poor suffer from the corruption-scam, and that's before the government ever start to find the money in their budget, to repay the loans & medium-term bonds with which the scam has been part-funded, and before the effects of releasing the stock-piles onto the world market depress the real prices even further.

Classify it all as 'top secret', or at least 'commercially confidential', do a murky barter-deal to hide the true costs of the write-downs or write-offs, sell the stocks off to a paper-company with no tangible assets, so that they can be run through-the-loop one more time, what to do ?

Whatever government emerges, from the current messy election, will have to shoulder the burden of this scheme, and will probably be blamed for the cutbacks elsewhere resulting from it.

Unless they can borrow a couple-of-trillion, over 50-years, and 'lose' the debts in a far greater 'scheme'.

Yay for 'Essential Infrastructure-Spending' ! Saviour of the Declining Economy !

[ramrod711]

The government told the farmers last year that they could not continue to pay 15,000 baht per tonne, they simply could not afford it. The farmers blocked the roads, the government caved, continued to pay a price that was non sustainable. The votes mattered more than the economy. While i am sympathetic to the plight of the farmers, they decided that they would hold the government to the 15,000 baht price and now they will sell for 9,000 baht plus Bt3,279 per rai compensation from the government. Perhaps they've never heard the expression "if it's too good to be true".

[worgeordie]

Thaksin the great leader,this rice pledging scam was his idea,

why does he not dig into his deep pockets and help the poor

people he is supposed to love and care about so much ?

While in Dubai he told the Red shirts all he had to eat there

was camel meat and camel milk ! and they will have believed

him, they also believed him when he said this rice scheme would

make them all rich, whats happened is ,the farmers are deeper in

debit,the country has been brought to its knees by the rice mountain,

some people will have done very nicely out of this with very little work,

and its not the farmers.

regards Worgeordie

[Katipo]

The government told the farmers last year that they could not continue to pay 15,000 baht per tonne, they simply could not afford it. The farmers blocked the roads, the government caved, continued to pay a price that was non sustainable. The votes mattered more than the economy. While i am sympathetic to the plight of the farmers, they decided that they would hold the government to the 15,000 baht price and now they will sell for 9,000 baht plus Bt3,279 per rai compensation from the government. Perhaps they've never heard the expression "if it's too good to be true".

It's easy for us to rationalise it this way, but not so much for certain other secros of society. I've spoken to several locals who still believe the Thaksin's have 'good credit' (I guess this means have lots of money) and thus everything will be Ok in the end.

When you believe in something so much, it can be very hard to let it go even in the face of overwhelming evidence. A scenario that has played itself out again and again throughout history.

[Crushdepth]

2 February is fast approaching. If they don't have the cash by then it will cease to be a 'rush'.

[ericthai]

The demands sound fair enough, provided the rice hasn't yet rotted away.

As long as the rice is stored properly it will not rot and can last indefinitely.

I agree their demands do sound fair.

Edited January 28, 2014 by ericthai

[ginjag]

The demands sound fair enough, provided the rice hasn't yet rotted away.

As long as the rice is stored properly it will not rot and can last indefinitely.

I agree their demands do sound fair.

The rice does not last indefinitely ---it slowly deteriorates ---it wouldn't last indefinitely if it was cooked and deep frozen.

Like everything it has a storage life, IF it is stored properly. Do you think all these mountains of rice is stored properly ??? some are in warehouses in heaps, open to vermin, birds, damp you name it.

The farmers are asking for new rice back and rightly so.

I say to the farmers go and register a no vote, object with the other protesters, now is your chance to shine, and show you are not the low life people of issan as many claim you are.

[Mosha]

Compensation? They'll be lucky if the government doesn't charge them for the storage, so that the government can raise some cash to pay the farmers who are protesting.

[ericthai]

The demands sound fair enough, provided the rice hasn't yet rotted away.

As long as the rice is stored properly it will not rot and can last indefinitely.

I agree their demands do sound fair.

The rice does not last indefinitely ---it slowly deteriorates ---it wouldn't last indefinitely if it was cooked and deep frozen.

Like everything it has a storage life, IF it is stored properly. Do you think all these mountains of rice is stored properly ??? some are in warehouses in heaps, open to vermin, birds, damp you name it.

The farmers are asking for new rice back and rightly so.

I say to the farmers go and register a no vote, object with the other protesters, now is your chance to shine, and show you are not the low life people of issan as many claim you are.

Sorry to tell you, but you are wrong. I didn't say anything about cooking and deep forzen, if it's uncooked it will last.

I worked in the rice industry for over 15 years in the engineering of storage, processing, conveying, packaging etc. As I stated if stored properly it can last indefinitely. I didn't say anything on how the govt is storing it was I making a comment that rice will not rot if stored properly.

[meand]

My question is, why did they give the rice without payment. I am not in this industry, but I thought the way this worked was you bring the rice in, they weigh it and pay you. Why give it without the payment?

[scorecard]

The demands sound fair enough, provided the rice hasn't yet rotted away.

As long as the rice is stored properly it will not rot and can last indefinitely.

I agree their demands do sound fair.

The rice does not last indefinitely ---it slowly deteriorates ---it wouldn't last indefinitely if it was cooked and deep frozen.

Like everything it has a storage life, IF it is stored properly. Do you think all these mountains of rice is stored properly ??? some are in warehouses in heaps, open to vermin, birds, damp you name it.

The farmers are asking for new rice back and rightly so.

I say to the farmers go and register a no vote, object with the other protesters, now is your chance to shine, and show you are not the low life people of issan as many claim you are.

Sorry to tell you, but you are wrong. I didn't say anything about cooking and deep forzen, if it's uncooked it will last.

I worked in the rice industry for over 15 years in the engineering of storage, processing, conveying, packaging etc. As I stated if stored properly it can last indefinitely. I didn't say anything on how the govt is storing it was I making a comment that rice will not rot if stored properly.

Well that's nice by the text book, however the reality is that most if not all of it is not being stored properly and there have been many photos on this and other websites / TV news items etc etc showing that it's not being stored properly. End of story.

[PS2]

The demands sound fair enough, provided the rice hasn't yet rotted away.

As long as the rice is stored properly it will not rot and can last indefinitely.

I agree their demands do sound fair.

The rice does not last indefinitely ---it slowly deteriorates ---it wouldn't last indefinitely if it was cooked and deep frozen.

Like everything it has a storage life, IF it is stored properly. Do you think all these mountains of rice is stored properly ??? some are in warehouses in heaps, open to vermin, birds, damp you name it.

The farmers are asking for new rice back and rightly so.

I say to the farmers go and register a no vote, object with the other protesters, now is your chance to shine, and show you are not the low life people of issan as many claim you are.

Sorry to tell you, but you are wrong. I didn't say anything about cooking and deep forzen, if it's uncooked it will last.

I worked in the rice industry for over 15 years in the engineering of storage, processing, conveying, packaging etc. As I stated if stored properly it can last indefinitely. I didn't say anything on how the govt is storing it was I making a comment that rice will not rot if stored properly.

http://www.eatbydate.com/grains/rice-shelf-life-expiration-date/

[tezzainoz]

My question is, why did they give the rice without payment. I am not in this industry, but I thought the way this worked was you bring the rice in, they weigh it and pay you. Why give it without the payment?

Maybe they believed in what Yingluk promised them

Edited January 28, 2014 by tezzainoz

[BlueNoseCodger]

I count 8 farmer looking people in that photo and one very expensive white car, presumably the PR man writing this.

[tominbkk]

I can understand the plight of the farmers. But it goes for anyone, if the deal sounds too good to be true, it probably is!

[gemini81]

Can't fool all the people all the time PTP, especially when you ARE a pack of fools! Nowadays even country bumpkins have wi fi etc. Back to the drawing board Thaksin, on how to keep a feudal system in operation and the working and poor class duped. It ain't working anymore. All that bad stuff you paid for to happen in 2010 is coming back to haunt you. Maybe even some of those thugs you hired may turn against you and bite the tail of the serpent who cheated them.

[ginjag]

The demands sound fair enough, provided the rice hasn't yet rotted away.

As long as the rice is stored properly it will not rot and can last indefinitely.

I agree their demands do sound fair.

The rice does not last indefinitely ---it slowly deteriorates ---it wouldn't last indefinitely if it was cooked and deep frozen.

Like everything it has a storage life, IF it is stored properly. Do you think all these mountains of rice is stored properly ??? some are in warehouses in heaps, open to vermin, birds, damp you name it.

The farmers are asking for new rice back and rightly so.

I say to the farmers go and register a no vote, object with the other protesters, now is your chance to shine, and show you are not the low life people of issan as many claim you are.

Sorry to tell you, but you are wrong. I didn't say anything about cooking and deep forzen, if it's uncooked it will last.

I worked in the rice industry for over 15 years in the engineering of storage, processing, conveying, packaging etc. As I stated if stored properly it can last indefinitely. I didn't say anything on how the govt is storing it was I making a comment that rice will not rot if stored properly.

I pointed out other ways of storage, to keep rice IF it is not stored properly.

You made a point that it can last indefinitely --this Is Thailand and in the majority of cases it is not stored correctly.

Now start to point out the alternatives if it is NOT stored correctly, this is the problem, so your years of experience now is needed to remedy this situation.

I know if you cure pork properly and hang it in ideal conditions it will last indefinitely.

What do we do with the rotting rice, and the mountains of unpacked rice. ?? so help us to find a solution. not to say it will last if it is stored well then end your post, you have the knowledge so inform us what is the best way round the situation.

I am asking you with a fair question as others will also want answers. The government are not doing it's job to store the rice properly in many cases.

I say give the farmer his NEW rice back, and pay only his interest charges for loans.

[animatic]

Biting the iron hand in the silk glove that isn't feeding them.

No doubt anyone needing to turn to loansharks to keep the family eating

would become highly resentful to those who have stiffed them for their hard earned paycheck.

When you mess with someones livelihood they often get angry.

Often more angry than if you mess with their children's futures.

And it has been shown repeatedly the rice is NOT being stored in a way that can last indefinitely. That would cost MUCH more, and might be done by end user resellers, but not the gross whole-sellers banking on fast and early sales to the end user/distributers.

Edited January 28, 2014 by animatic

[casualbiker]

I count 8 farmer looking people in that photo and one very expensive white car, presumably the PR man writing this.

I count 10 and a mediocre Toyota Altis on the road.. presumably driving.

[dude123]

Great idea wasn't it, to help the poor farmers and 'make everyone rich within six months', except it didn't have a fairy-tale ending.

Almost sounds like the old mutual fund scams perpetrated by banks around the world telling customers their money is secure. What Thai rice farmers painfully got was a lesson in how big business screws the little guy.

[soalbundy]

I don't know if any of you have actually done any rice farming.I have,with the missus,and although she with my son, own over 200 rai which is far more than most farmers own,i can tell you its not a good earner. The outlay for plowing costs,combine harvester costs,buying fertilizer and pesticides is very high. Add to that the transportation costs to the barn from the fields and the hard work of drying the rice,without the rice pledging scheme it isn't worth it,especially when you consider the risks of a bad harvest (flooding or drought).

The farmers in Europe and America are subsidized, i see no reason why the farmers of Thailand shouldn't enjoy the same benefits. The fact that the system is open to corruption is not the fault of the farmers. Better controls are needed and a realization that the rice will be sold at a loss, call it an equaling out of the disparity between the living standards in Bangkok and Isan.

[animatic]

I don't know if any of you have actually done any rice farming.I have,with the missus,and although she with my son, own over 200 rai which is far more than most farmers own,i can tell you its not a good earner. The outlay for plowing costs,combine harvester costs,buying fertilizer and pesticides is very high. Add to that the transportation costs to the barn from the fields and the hard work of drying the rice,without the rice pledging scheme it isn't worth it,especially when you consider the risks of a bad harvest (flooding or drought).

The farmers in Europe and America are subsidized, i see no reason why the farmers of Thailand shouldn't enjoy the same benefits. The fact that the system is open to corruption is not the fault of the farmers. Better controls are needed and a realization that the rice will be sold at a loss, call it an equaling out of the disparity between the living standards in Bangkok and Isan.

All well and good IF the government and the economy can support those subsidies.

Obviously that is not the case here.

[tim armstrong]

Meand, most agricultural products anywhere are paid for on a long term basis - after the product has been sold. The government is the seller here, but as we all know doesn't have a market for the rice and already lied about it. The main buyer - China just has to sit and wait until the price is cheap enough. India ,Vietnam and other countries must be laughing as they will be taking a large chunk of the market. Ongoing Thai exports are in trouble. Middlemen are not really the issue,

The farmers now saying they will take 9,000 baht are not bargaining - they are desperate as they have to pay the loans for the new kubotas - around 1.1million each, agrochemicals, pick ups, and all the other production costs. They haven't got the income. The next thing that will happen will be large scale loan defaults. Problem for the lenders - even if they repossess rice land they can't do anything with it,or sell it on, as only the farmers know how to use it. Farmers will soon take action in a big way against this government.

[BlueNoseCodger]

I count 8 farmer looking people in that photo and one very expensive white car, presumably the PR man writing this.

I count 10 and a mediocre Toyota Altis on the road.. presumably driving.

You are right, there's one in the back of the truck. Of the vehicles, the PR man (taking the photo) will be the car I assume.

[Mosha]

The demands sound fair enough, provided the rice hasn't yet rotted away.

As long as the rice is stored properly it will not rot and can last indefinitely.

I agree their demands do sound fair.

The rice does not last indefinitely ---it slowly deteriorates ---it wouldn't last indefinitely if it was cooked and deep frozen.

Like everything it has a storage life, IF it is stored properly. Do you think all these mountains of rice is stored properly ??? some are in warehouses in heaps, open to vermin, birds, damp you name it.

The farmers are asking for new rice back and rightly so.

I say to the farmers go and register a no vote, object with the other protesters, now is your chance to shine, and show you are not the low life people of issan as many claim you are.

Sorry to tell you, but you are wrong. I didn't say anything about cooking and deep forzen, if it's uncooked it will last.

I worked in the rice industry for over 15 years in the engineering of storage, processing, conveying, packaging etc. As I stated if stored properly it can last indefinitely. I didn't say anything on how the govt is storing it was I making a comment that rice will not rot if stored properly.

Then there was this Democrat MP who opened a sack of rotten rice in parliament. To the outrage of the PTP MPs who accused him of trespass.