Potential scam; savings lost?

[ThaiBob]

I am attempting to help a Thai friend who may be getting screwed out of his money. He has invested his savings regularly in a Thai savings/loan/cooperative in Rangsit in Patum Thani with office near DMC temple. This cooperative has been paying returns much higher than average, too good in my estimation. The bottom line is account is frozen. The rumour is either corruption, theft, or unauthorized borrowing of investors money; take your pick. He tried withdrawing his money (400,000) but was told the missing funds would be returned in about one year. What can be done? Lawyers are useless, any government oversight office he can contact?

[KarenBravo]

In other words, a chit fund.

Most chit funds end when one of it's members takes the money and runs.

[ThaiBob]

Not familiar with the term, but the question is what to do?

[meatboy]

these credit unions that's what they called them in the uk.offered interest to savers and let them borrow certain amounts on their capitol.there should be at least 3persons who all must sign a cheque before any money was withdrawn from the bank.could be something on the same scale as whats been happening here with so called pyramid schemes.its all disappeared.

[Shurup]

I'm sure nothing can be done about it as the money is gone already.

[Berkshire]

This sounds like a Madoff/pyramid scheme. My sympathies for your friend, but surely, as a Thai, your friend would know much better where to go to seek remedy than the typical farang on TV. If he's asking you and the TV membership for help, he is surely toast.

[Pib]

Check out this Bank of Thailand, Financial Consumer Protection Center web page. Link

There is also a link on above page showing a list of financial products/services above Center can deal with since the products/services on the list are governed by Bank of Thailand regulations. If your friend's institution is not on the list then that institution is probably an unregulated financial company, or worst yet a scam.

[ThaiBob]

Thank you PIB, that is a start. He was the told the money was "borrowed" and would be repaid. I personally believe the cooperative there may have been borrowing, theft or investments gone sour with the recent downturn in the SET. Being a farang, I want an investigation by the authorities to be sure everything is on the up and up. Names, who is accountable, legally responsible, etc. Hopefully the BOT has some oversight in this situation.

[inzman]

No one will be responsible, because no one is ever responsible here.

[John 1]

Thank you PIB, that is a start. He was the told the money was "borrowed" and would be repaid. I personally believe the cooperative there may have been borrowing, theft or investments gone sour with the recent downturn in the SET. Being a farang, I want an investigation by the authorities to be sure everything is on the up and up. Names, who is accountable, legally responsible, etc. Hopefully the BOT has some oversight in this situation.

You are posting like you lost your money?

[ThaiBob]

Thank you PIB, that is a start. He was the told the money was "borrowed" and would be repaid. I personally believe the cooperative there may have been borrowing, theft or investments gone sour with the recent downturn in the SET. Being a farang, I want an investigation by the authorities to be sure everything is on the up and up. Names, who is accountable, legally responsible, etc. Hopefully the BOT has some oversight in this situation.

You are posting like you lost your money?

Nope, I don't think a farang can have an account there. Just concerned as a good friend. He has other friends in the same situation. They are all worried but they have the attitude nothing can be done. I get upset when I see poor people like them get jacked around by some rich Thai or the system. People like this can be preyed upon because the perpetrators know they won't fight back. Edited January 31, 2014 by ThaiBob

[i claudius]

If it sounds to good to be true ,it usually is,.to good to be true.

[Suradit69]

Thank you PIB, that is a start. He was the told the money was "borrowed" and would be repaid. I personally believe the cooperative there may have been borrowing, theft or investments gone sour with the recent downturn in the SET. Being a farang, I want an investigation by the authorities to be sure everything is on the up and up. Names, who is accountable, legally responsible, etc. Hopefully the BOT has some oversight in this situation.

"I personally believe the cooperative there may have been borrowing, theft or investments gone sour with the recent downturn in the SET. Being a farang, I want an investigation by the authorities to be sure everything is on the up and up..."

Absent any proof, it sounds like you don't really know what's going on and have assumed the worst ... "being a farang."

Unless s/he has appointed you to represent him/her, you may end up causing more problems than you solve. Announcing that you want an investigation by the authorities sounds like you could easily upset the very people best positioned to help your friend. You'll probably get more clarity by asking for assistance in understanding the problem rather than throwing about accusations and demanding investigations regarding an account that isn't yours.

Do you even have a copy of the rules regarding account withdrawals? If the money on deposit is meant to be almost fully invested there may be some quite legitimate notice period required for making withdrawals over a certain amount.

[Suradit69]

No one will be responsible, because no one is ever responsible here.

You may be confusing Thailand with the actual focus of the banking crisis that caused the collapse of markets throughout the world about 6 years ago. No one in the US or Europe was responsible for that and taxpayers had to give the blameless bank executives billions of dollars to ensure they'd keep collecting their multi-million dollar/Euro paycheques ... since no one was responsible for the collapse or for the LIBOR rate rigging or for letting Bernie Madoff steal money for years and years in the ultra safe, well-regulated US markets or fixing precious metal prices in London or ...

Edited January 31, 2014 by Suradit69

[casualbiker]

Thank you PIB, that is a start. He was the told the money was "borrowed" and would be repaid. I personally believe the cooperative there may have been borrowing, theft or investments gone sour with the recent downturn in the SET. Being a farang, I want an investigation by the authorities to be sure everything is on the up and up. Names, who is accountable, legally responsible, etc. Hopefully the BOT has some oversight in this situation.

You are posting like you lost your money?

Nope, I don't think a farang can have an account there. Just concerned as a good friend. He has other friends in the same situation. They are all worried but they have the attitude nothing can be done. I get upset when I see poor people like them get jacked around by some rich Thai or the system. People like this can be preyed upon because the perpetrators know they won't fight back.

poor !!!! he had 400k in there.

[SheungWan]

Thank you PIB, that is a start. He was the told the money was "borrowed" and would be repaid. I personally believe the cooperative there may have been borrowing, theft or investments gone sour with the recent downturn in the SET. Being a farang, I want an investigation by the authorities to be sure everything is on the up and up. Names, who is accountable, legally responsible, etc. Hopefully the BOT has some oversight in this situation.

You are posting like you lost your money?

Nope, I don't think a farang can have an account there. Just concerned as a good friend. He has other friends in the same situation. They are all worried but they have the attitude nothing can be done. I get upset when I see poor people like them get jacked around by some rich Thai or the system. People like this can be preyed upon because the perpetrators know they won't fight back.

poor !!!! he had 400k in there.

He was chasing higher returns and underestimated the risks.

[ThaiBob]

Thank you PIB, that is a start. He was the told the money was "borrowed" and would be repaid. I personally believe the cooperative there may have been borrowing, theft or investments gone sour with the recent downturn in the SET. Being a farang, I want an investigation by the authorities to be sure everything is on the up and up. Names, who is accountable, legally responsible, etc. Hopefully the BOT has some oversight in this situation.

"I personally believe the cooperative there may have been borrowing, theft or investments gone sour with the recent downturn in the SET. Being a farang, I want an investigation by the authorities to be sure everything is on the up and up..."

Absent any proof, it sounds like you don't really know what's going on and have assumed the worst ... "being a farang."

Unless s/he has appointed you to represent him/her, you may end up causing more problems than you solve. Announcing that you want an investigation by the authorities sounds like you could easily upset the very people best positioned to help your friend. You'll probably get more clarity by asking for assistance in understanding the problem rather than throwing about accusations and demanding investigations regarding an account that isn't yours.

Do you even have a copy of the rules regarding account withdrawals? If the money on deposit is meant to be almost fully invested there may be some quite legitimate notice period required for making withdrawals over a certain amount.

As I said, I am only trying to help as a friend. The fears of "corruption" come from the depositors as their deposits are frozen. No one knows anything except they cannot access their money which they could do freely until several months ago. They have been told they cannot have their money until the person(s) who "borrowed" it return it. It seems an audit is necessary to find out what's going on. Pib has provided an excellent link, if someone else has additional contact information please provide.

[p_brownstone]

People like this can be preyed upon because the perpetrators know they won't fight back.

No - sorry.

People like this get preyed on because they are greedy.

Any Investment which offers significantly above Market returns should ring warning bells with any Investor and, if they are not greedy, they would walk away.

Patrick

[SheungWan]

Thank you PIB, that is a start. He was the told the money was "borrowed" and would be repaid. I personally believe the cooperative there may have been borrowing, theft or investments gone sour with the recent downturn in the SET. Being a farang, I want an investigation by the authorities to be sure everything is on the up and up. Names, who is accountable, legally responsible, etc. Hopefully the BOT has some oversight in this situation.

"I personally believe the cooperative there may have been borrowing, theft or investments gone sour with the recent downturn in the SET. Being a farang, I want an investigation by the authorities to be sure everything is on the up and up..."

Absent any proof, it sounds like you don't really know what's going on and have assumed the worst ... "being a farang."

Unless s/he has appointed you to represent him/her, you may end up causing more problems than you solve. Announcing that you want an investigation by the authorities sounds like you could easily upset the very people best positioned to help your friend. You'll probably get more clarity by asking for assistance in understanding the problem rather than throwing about accusations and demanding investigations regarding an account that isn't yours.

Do you even have a copy of the rules regarding account withdrawals? If the money on deposit is meant to be almost fully invested there may be some quite legitimate notice period required for making withdrawals over a certain amount.

As I said, I am only trying to help as a friend. The fears of "corruption" come from the depositors as their deposits are frozen. No one knows anything except they cannot access their money which they could do freely until several months ago. They have been told they cannot have their money until the person(s) who "borrowed" it return it. It seems an audit is necessary to find out what's going on. Pib has provided an excellent link, if someone else has additional contact information please provide.

Do you know anything about the history of this co-op and whether it is part of a national chain or association of co-ops? If so, is there a national office to direct enquiries? There might also be a financial ombudsman to contact. If the co-op has some prominence in the area (has it?) then there is a political dimension and worth directing concerns to the local MP.

[jacko45k]

People like this can be preyed upon because the perpetrators know they won't fight back.

No - sorry.

People like this get preyed on because they are greedy.

Any Investment which offers significantly above Market returns should ring warning bells with any Investor and, if they are not greedy, they would walk away.

Patrick

I have to say you are right.

Either keep a wide berth, or get your original investment out as quick as you can and play on profits.

I was greedy and became poorer!

[NoshowJones]

Thank you PIB, that is a start. He was the told the money was "borrowed" and would be repaid. I personally believe the cooperative there may have been borrowing, theft or investments gone sour with the recent downturn in the SET. Being a farang, I want an investigation by the authorities to be sure everything is on the up and up. Names, who is accountable, legally responsible, etc. Hopefully the BOT has some oversight in this situation.

You are posting like you lost your money?

Nope, I don't think a farang can have an account there. Just concerned as a good friend. He has other friends in the same situation. They are all worried but they have the attitude nothing can be done. I get upset when I see poor people like them get jacked around by some rich Thai or the system. People like this can be preyed upon because the perpetrators know they won't fight back.

Not won't fight back, can't fight back. Big difference.

[ThaiBob]

Thank you PIB, that is a start. He was the told the money was "borrowed" and would be repaid. I personally believe the cooperative there may have been borrowing, theft or investments gone sour with the recent downturn in the SET. Being a farang, I want an investigation by the authorities to be sure everything is on the up and up. Names, who is accountable, legally responsible, etc. Hopefully the BOT has some oversight in this situation.

"I personally believe the cooperative there may have been borrowing, theft or investments gone sour with the recent downturn in the SET. Being a farang, I want an investigation by the authorities to be sure everything is on the up and up..."

Absent any proof, it sounds like you don't really know what's going on and have assumed the worst ... "being a farang."

Unless s/he has appointed you to represent him/her, you may end up causing more problems than you solve. Announcing that you want an investigation by the authorities sounds like you could easily upset the very people best positioned to help your friend. You'll probably get more clarity by asking for assistance in understanding the problem rather than throwing about accusations and demanding investigations regarding an account that isn't yours.

Do you even have a copy of the rules regarding account withdrawals? If the money on deposit is meant to be almost fully invested there may be some quite legitimate notice period required for making withdrawals over a certain amount.

As I said, I am only trying to help as a friend. The fears of "corruption" come from the depositors as their deposits are frozen. No one knows anything except they cannot access their money which they could do freely until several months ago. They have been told they cannot have their money until the person(s) who "borrowed" it return it. It seems an audit is necessary to find out what's going on. Pib has provided an excellent link, if someone else has additional contact information please provide.

Do you know anything about the history of this co-op and whether it is part of a national chain or association of co-ops? If so, is there a national office to direct enquiries? There might also be a financial ombudsman to contact. If the co-op has some prominence in the area (has it?) then there is a political dimension and worth directing concerns to the local MP.

This co-op is well known locally and I believe this is their only location. My sense is the depositors are a mix of rich and poor. On Sundays there are long lines of members doing business throughout the day since the physical location is just a stone's throw from the huge temple. Members can get easy loans against their shares. I don't see this so much as investor greed as opposed to convenience. I was immediately suspicious about the big returns although a friend with a Bangkok Bank mutual fund savings account was getting similar returns. Your suggestion about local political pressure sounds good but I am sure my friend wouldn't know how to begin. He lives in Chonburi province and the coop is in Rangsit.

[jacksam]

I just don't understand a lot of posts in this forum. I mean all the ones about losing the house or condo etc to the x Thai gf or wife. Or losing money because you invested money in this type of fund. Bottom line is don't put yourselves in these situations. Many here say only put money into a girl or other gig to extent you are happy to part with. I think that's good advice and I adhere to it. This isn't my western country with many fall back protections. .

[makkam]

If the returns seem to good to be true then they will be

The only easy money in Thailand is if you're a cop or a crony with senior politicians.

[gemguy]

Thank you PIB, that is a start. He was the told the money was "borrowed" and would be repaid. I personally believe the cooperative there may have been borrowing, theft or investments gone sour with the recent downturn in the SET. Being a farang, I want an investigation by the authorities to be sure everything is on the up and up. Names, who is accountable, legally responsible, etc. Hopefully the BOT has some oversight in this situation.

I would be very cautious as to just how much you help your Thai friend concerning this matter.

Involving the Police and or any Thai authorities creates a potential for the problem, and all that it entails, to come back on you in ways that you would not expect and or comprehend.

I know from experience ( long story ) as many years ago here in Thailand I tried to help other people with their money related / business related problems and I regreted it ...big time.

They were also considered Thai friends...now they are not.

Seriously......approach with caution and plenty of skepticism on your part.......or better yet, do not get involved ....AT ALL.

[unanimosity]

Not familiar with the term, but the question is what to do?

Find a local and show them the ROI you are receiving and sell them the account for 450,000 and don't look back.

[HerbalEd]

What can he do? Absolutely nothing. He's been screwed and that's the end of it.

[ThaiBob]

Thank you PIB, that is a start. He was the told the money was "borrowed" and would be repaid. I personally believe the cooperative there may have been borrowing, theft or investments gone sour with the recent downturn in the SET. Being a farang, I want an investigation by the authorities to be sure everything is on the up and up. Names, who is accountable, legally responsible, etc. Hopefully the BOT has some oversight in this situation.

I would be very cautious as to just how much you help your Thai friend concerning this matter.

Involving the Police and or any Thai authorities creates a potential for the problem, and all that it entails, to come back on you in ways that you would not expect and or comprehend.

I know from experience ( long story ) as many years ago here in Thailand I tried to help other people with their money related / business related problems and I regreted it ...big time.

They were also considered Thai friends...now they are not.

Seriously......approach with caution and plenty of skepticism on your part.......or better yet, do not get involved ....AT ALL.

Good advice, this is not my money, if it were things would be different. I can only provide information, it will be up to the Thais to take the initiative.

[kingstonkid]

Thaibob

I would suggest that your friend get in touch with others that use the service and find out what they re doing. He may want to get in touch with the police or the amphur to see what they know.

i would also advise your friend to talk to a lawyer so that he can start any legal proceedings that are possible. I am sure he is not the only person so if a group of them hire the same lawyer they can cut their costs and get answers quickly.

Does your friend have any papers from the lender to outline anything or make any statements. They would also help.

I live in the area where is this business located?

[smotherb]

With only a few wording changes, this could be the "Song of the Falang."

I am attempting to help a friend who may be getting screwed out of his money. He has invested his savings regularly in a Thai gf in Patum Thani. His gf has been repaying him in good feelings much better than average, too good in my estimation. The bottom line is she has vanished. The rumour is either another falang with more money, or younger, or both. He tried getting some of his money back in the gifts he gave her, but was told the missing gf may return in about one year. What can be done? Lawyers are useless, any government oversight office he can contact?