Why it isn't a class struggle: Thai opinion

[Ulysses G.]

." It's a rich against rich fight with the poor caught in the middle"

Argree or disagree with the rest of the article, but this sentence is hard to argue with.

[Tatsujin]

another silly article from the elite mouthpiece

same pattern as in many other countries only difference in Thailand is that the mob is struggling AGAINST democracy whereas in every other country they fight FOR democracy TIT

the people will win through in the end but it's a long paradigm shift *sigh*

expect the elite to whine and struggle as it clings to power - the one clever thing they have done is convince some Thais and many TVF posters is that THEY (the un-democrats) are for democratic change, against corruption and want reform

clever that!!! but you can't fool all the people all of the time etc. and that is their problem (NO agenda, NO ideas, NO roadmap, NO timeline, NO suggestions of WHO these unelected 'rulers' will be)

Who exactly are the "elite" you refer to?

People with money? Business people? Someone else? Please clarify just "who" you think the elite is at the moment . . . and "why" you think they are elite . . . I'm very curious to know.

I generally agree with Binjalin and I define the "elite" as the old power structure who do TEND TO BE wealthy, well-educated, industrialists, capitalists, etc..., and are concentrated in Bangkok. What PRIMARILY DEFINES them as elitists is they are ANTI-DEMOCRATIC and believe the common people of Thailand who TEND TO BE poor, uneducated, small business owners or day-workers, farmers and dispersed throughout the rural areas are incapable of governing themselves. The "elites" believe they are the only ones who should be allowed to govern. A government built on this type of philosophy is usually some form of OLIGARCHY based on some combination of their qualities (wealth, education, birth, etc...).

That is how I define "elitists"...

Thank you, great description of what you think an "elite" is.

Now explain to me how or why Thaksin and his financial supporters are not themselves "elite" ...

[PaullyW]

It's interesting that Thailand plods along as if there is no political upheaval. The protests are annoying but doesn't really disrupt anything. It's very unfortunate that people are getting killed at the protest sites and I feel for the the people that have lost family members, but other than downward trend in tourism there hasn't been any meaningful disruption. The government says that tourism only accounts for about 3% of Thailand's income so that's not a big deal.

My point is: The military is now saying if this situation continues the nation will collapse. Really? Possible a reason, although unwarranted, for the military to step in.

Do you believe that tourism accounts for a mere 3% of GDP given the frequent government ministers and even PM going on about it weekly?

Do you also believe that these protests are not having a real impact on the overall economy?

[smileydude]

The less fortunate Thai does not feel a class struggle as in the old saying "In the water there is fish, in the fields there is rice."

Do you see or feel this unhappiness among farmers, the so called poorest population?

The majority of those in the provinces do not go hungry with the support network of relatives and friends, something uncommon in the western world.

The power struggle has always been going on in Thailand's history but now the strategy has changed with the introduction of the democratic system.

To win in this system you need numbers and no better way then populist policies and creating a cause.

Thaksin is not Che Guevara.

Thaksin is a master of manipulation and is riding a wave with the help of socialists, NGO's and Northern and Issan politicians.

As Professor Esther Duflo said in her book Poor Economics the reason people are still poor is in the feeling of hopelessness.

Those with a stronger mentality are able to claw their way out of it. The rest just pass time and accept their fate.

Many an example can be seen from those who rose up from poverty to riches did not require subsidies or free handouts.

What they had was their own will not to accept their fate.

Give people basic access to healthcare and education so that they can dig themselves out starting with their mindset.

LIke in the saying: Don't give them fish, teach them how to fish.

What the PTP and Thaksin provide is not the answer to poverty but an answer to staying in power.

[rebelplatoon]

An excellent piece. Both sides being used with different motives. The truth is in the middle. I keep repeating that the

PTP or TRT as it was called did not win the previous election with the numbers that the seats in government suggest. It was 13.5 Mil against 11.5 Mil for the Dems. A difference of only 13% which should have translated to a difference in seats of 21. Instead it was a difference in seats of 108 ! Don't let anyone tell you this is a class struggle. That would mean that nearly 40% of the people eligible to vote would be "the elite" ? All in all what needs to be done is sit down and find a way out before this beautiful country is destroyed by either side. That means: Yingluck: stop the smear campaign and Suthep: Shut up and practice the art of listening!

[zakk9]

another silly article from the elite mouthpiece

same pattern as in many other countries only difference in Thailand is that the mob is struggling AGAINST democracy whereas in every other country they fight FOR democracy TIT

the people will win through in the end but it's a long paradigm shift *sigh*

expect the elite to whine and struggle as it clings to power - the one clever thing they have done is convince some Thais and many TVF posters is that THEY (the un-democrats) are for democratic change, against corruption and want reform

clever that!!! but you can't fool all the people all of the time etc. and that is their problem (NO agenda, NO ideas, NO roadmap, NO timeline, NO suggestions of WHO these unelected 'rulers' will be)

And what exactly is wrong with the article?

[zakk9]

Yingluck Shinawatra, granddaughter of Princess Jantip na Chiangmai, born into incredible riches and power, one of the world's richest women without ever having done a days work in her life. Leading a grassroots revolt against the rich and privileged? For real?

well let me answer this became it IS a fair point...

please do not assume that those who are sympathetic to the 'red' cause are necessarily supporters of the Shins! personally I don't want Khun Thaksin back although I do believe he has been demonized for political purposes.

many of us support the present government BECAUSE it was democratically elected and the bullies who can't win at the polls want to disrupt them BECAUSE they lost - if this is not true WHY did Suthep not push for reforms when in power? WHY did Abhisit not say all these things back when he was PM? they had plenty of opportunity to push reform - they did not? WHY?

Only when they realised they could not win did they start their 'reform whinge' and let's 'destroy Bangkok' if we can't win an election

The clever part is they 'manipulated' the genuine feelings of people against corruption and so let's demonize this figure, throw out his family, an have an 'unelected elite' in power - I mean why bother with that silly thing called democracy?

and so it's not about supporting the rich Shins rather it's about supporting the poor, disenfranchised in Thailand and supporting DEMOCRACY - if Dems had won I would support them too (but probably not like them very much)

surely we MUST safeguard the basic human rights of Free Speech (no censorship/les majeste) and Free Elections (no blocking voting) and, of course, put pressure from ALL quarters against corruption (number ONE priority)

Some of what you write actually makes sense. The problematic side of it is that by supporting the Shinawatras, you are supporting corruption and supporting theft from the farmers. Now, the red shirts are preventing farmers to demonstrate and speak their opinion. That's not very democratic, is it? Most agree, even most of the demonstrators, that Suthep should never become prime minister of Thailand. He's one of the crooks as well.

Abhisit's big failure is that he didn't understand that he had to handle the problems in Isan before anything else. It's an unforgivable mistake, and one he and the nation has had to suffer for. He's not a good communicator and struggles trying to reach the masses. He, and his finance minister, do come across as reasonably honest though, at least compared to most other Thai politicians, but they also have a busload full of greedy dinosaurs with them, who are only looking for more money to grab.

I even think Yingluck is a relatively honest person. Unfortunately, she has no political experience and she probably has no influence whatsoever on the decisions. It must be a very frustrating position.

[blaze]

What a juvenile article-= and sadly so typical- By the line of reasoning that the auther employs, Obama should have paid for the new health care system out of his pocket.

However it stands to reason that the opinionator would not understand the concept of 'principles'= he only understands personal greed. And so a rich man callling for fair play makes no sense to him.

ridiculous.

[The Deerhunter]

Yingluck Shinawatra, granddaughter of Princess Jantip na Chiangmai, born into incredible riches and power, one of the world's richest women without ever having done a days work in her life. Leading a grassroots revolt against the rich and privileged? For real?

So, with that bit of information which elite group is it that the reds/UDD/Communists keep talking about that they want to kick out of power?

Why can they not see when they are being used?

[ABCer]

Not being a Thai I'm not sure giving my opinion here.

But I was ridiculed and criticized when about 2 months ago I was praying for a military coup.

I still am.

In this well written article a discourse is put forward on 'class nature' of the struggle continuing before our eyes.

Its only weak point is - too long, too academic and piss weak.

2 months ago than 1 month ago I categorically claimed that this 'struggle' is nothing but a pigs fight around the feeding trough.

I still am.

The fighting pigs will never stop fighting. They will not even stop at the unleashing a real civil war onto this long suffering nation.

Because the best fishing is in muddy waters. Or should I say bloody waters?

Edited February 26, 2014 by ABCer

[Halion]

This could be more accurately designated as a war on culture not class.

Corruption is defined by the act and not the immensity and as such the whole country is corrupted to one degree or another.

Everyone in Thailand perceive that they gain in some way from corrupt acts and as such it is part of the national heritage and every day life.

Corruption is the arch enemy of democracy and whilst corruption flourishes there can be no democracy by the very definition of the term.

Thailand's struggle in combating corruption crosses every sector of public life. The current quest for reform is a critical step but it must address the culture and not simply the administration.

[ABCer]

Yingluck Shinawatra, granddaughter of Princess Jantip na Chiangmai, born into incredible riches and power, one of the world's richest women without ever having done a days work in her life. Leading a grassroots revolt against the rich and privileged? For real?

well let me answer this became it IS a fair point...

please do not assume that those who are sympathetic to the 'red' cause are necessarily supporters of the Shins! personally I don't want Khun Thaksin back although I do believe he has been demonized for political purposes.

many of us support the present government BECAUSE it was democratically elected and the bullies who can't win at the polls want to disrupt them BECAUSE they lost - if this is not true WHY did Suthep not push for reforms when in power? WHY did Abhisit not say all these things back when he was PM? they had plenty of opportunity to push reform - they did not? WHY?

Only when they realised they could not win did they start their 'reform whinge' and let's 'destroy Bangkok' if we can't win an election

The clever part is they 'manipulated' the genuine feelings of people against corruption and so let's demonize this figure, throw out his family, an have an 'unelected elite' in power - I mean why bother with that silly thing called democracy?

and so it's not about supporting the rich Shins rather it's about supporting the poor, disenfranchised in Thailand and supporting DEMOCRACY - if Dems had won I would support them too (but probably not like them very much)

surely we MUST safeguard the basic human rights of Free Speech (no censorship/les majeste) and Free Elections (no blocking voting) and, of course, put pressure from ALL quarters against corruption (number ONE priority)

Some of what you write actually makes sense. The problematic side of it is that by supporting the Shinawatras, you are supporting corruption and supporting theft from the farmers. Now, the red shirts are preventing farmers to demonstrate and speak their opinion. That's not very democratic, is it? Most agree, even most of the demonstrators, that Suthep should never become prime minister of Thailand. He's one of the crooks as well.

Abhisit's big failure is that he didn't understand that he had to handle the problems in Isan before anything else. It's an unforgivable mistake, and one he and the nation has had to suffer for. He's not a good communicator and struggles trying to reach the masses. He, and his finance minister, do come across as reasonably honest though, at least compared to most other Thai politicians, but they also have a busload full of greedy dinosaurs with them, who are only looking for more money to grab.

I even think Yingluck is a relatively honest person. Unfortunately, she has no political experience and she probably has no influence whatsoever on the decisions. It must be a very frustrating position.

zakk9, you are thinking as a benevolent child.

Do you really believe that with any changes in high places the Thai system will change? Don't be delusional. It never will!

[The Deerhunter]

It's interesting that Thailand plods along as if there is no political upheaval. The protests are annoying but doesn't really disrupt anything. It's very unfortunate that people are getting killed at the protest sites and I feel for the the people that have lost family members, but other than downward trend in tourism there hasn't been any meaningful disruption. The government says that tourism only accounts for about 3% of Thailand's income so that's not a big deal.

My point is: The military is now saying if this situation continues the nation will collapse. Really? Possible a reason, although unwarranted, for the military to step in.

Do you believe that tourism accounts for a mere 3% of GDP given the frequent government ministers and even PM going on about it weekly?

Do you also believe that these protests are not having a real impact on the overall economy?

Well, one of the main reasons for the protests (the rice scheme/scam) has seen the Thai rice exports ranking drop from first to third or possibly 4th place. That is pretty damn serious. The economy is nearly bankrupt from either theft, or mismanagement.or they wouldn't be needing a 2-3 trillion baht loan to pay among other things the losses on the rice business. Tourism and income from resident expats is way more than 3% They account for what is known as a huge"invisible export."

[gemini81]

Not being a Thai I'm not sure giving my opinion here.

But I was ridiculed and criticized when about 2 months ago I was praying for a military coup.

I still am.

In this well written article a discourse is put forward on 'class nature' of the struggle continuing before our eyes.

Its only weak point is - too long, too academic and piss weak.

2 months ago than 1 month ago I categorically claimed that this 'struggle' is nothing but a pigs fight around the feeding trough.

I still am.

The fighting pigs will never stop fighting. They will not even stop at the unleashing a real civil war onto this long suffering nation.

Because the best fishing is in muddy waters. Or should I say bloody waters?

I am too. Not ready to reckon with a new system, and the fact that there won't be one soon- the coup will get the shinawatras out to the satisfaction of many, save lives, and at least have a lesser evil, bare minimum, than this family. People can paint lofty pictures of I'd do this, they ought to do that; but the fact as it stands is that its a constitutional monarchy & that probably won't change soon. I agree a coup will shut this family out and get things more stabilized at least- tone down bitterness in the south, division, incompetence and the epidemic level of graft. Thats just dealing with the reality of the situation.

[chainarong]

There is no class mentioned , it is the Thai Democracy that is at fault , when the constitution was designed the academic's became heavily involved in re-writes, now the long term expats will remember the abuse , intimidation and even attacks this caused the academic's, so at the end of the day a watered down version of something like a Westminster system was formed, the academic's warned that this style of democracy was open to abuse, corruption and failure , how right they were, us old timers remember .

[Suriya4]

Thaksin should not have help the poor in the fist place.

Now the poor is addicted to Money, farm subsidy, pick-up truck, smart phones, etc,

They keep asking for more.

[Ricardo]

Sometimes it's about the lesser or two evils, one parasite/elite may kill the host, the other merely bleeds it.

Then there are the RTP & the military, protecting their own fiefdoms, and able to be kept on-side for-a-price.

Throw in regionalism, religious-differences, nationalism and a bit of lobbying from two world-powers, and its a witches-brew.

[hellodolly]

On the one hand you can describe it as a battle between the old elites versus a new elites. On the other you can describe it as a battle between an old feudal system at the ballot box and a new determination for modern democratic principals of one independent-mind, one vote.

Is that one vote a freely given one or one paid for?

[zakk9]

Yingluck Shinawatra, granddaughter of Princess Jantip na Chiangmai, born into incredible riches and power, one of the world's richest women without ever having done a days work in her life. Leading a grassroots revolt against the rich and privileged? For real?

well let me answer this became it IS a fair point...

please do not assume that those who are sympathetic to the 'red' cause are necessarily supporters of the Shins! personally I don't want Khun Thaksin back although I do believe he has been demonized for political purposes.

many of us support the present government BECAUSE it was democratically elected and the bullies who can't win at the polls want to disrupt them BECAUSE they lost - if this is not true WHY did Suthep not push for reforms when in power? WHY did Abhisit not say all these things back when he was PM? they had plenty of opportunity to push reform - they did not? WHY?

Only when they realised they could not win did they start their 'reform whinge' and let's 'destroy Bangkok' if we can't win an election

The clever part is they 'manipulated' the genuine feelings of people against corruption and so let's demonize this figure, throw out his family, an have an 'unelected elite' in power - I mean why bother with that silly thing called democracy?

and so it's not about supporting the rich Shins rather it's about supporting the poor, disenfranchised in Thailand and supporting DEMOCRACY - if Dems had won I would support them too (but probably not like them very much)

surely we MUST safeguard the basic human rights of Free Speech (no censorship/les majeste) and Free Elections (no blocking voting) and, of course, put pressure from ALL quarters against corruption (number ONE priority)

Some of what you write actually makes sense. The problematic side of it is that by supporting the Shinawatras, you are supporting corruption and supporting theft from the farmers. Now, the red shirts are preventing farmers to demonstrate and speak their opinion. That's not very democratic, is it? Most agree, even most of the demonstrators, that Suthep should never become prime minister of Thailand. He's one of the crooks as well.

Abhisit's big failure is that he didn't understand that he had to handle the problems in Isan before anything else. It's an unforgivable mistake, and one he and the nation has had to suffer for. He's not a good communicator and struggles trying to reach the masses. He, and his finance minister, do come across as reasonably honest though, at least compared to most other Thai politicians, but they also have a busload full of greedy dinosaurs with them, who are only looking for more money to grab.

I even think Yingluck is a relatively honest person. Unfortunately, she has no political experience and she probably has no influence whatsoever on the decisions. It must be a very frustrating position.

zakk9, you are thinking as a benevolent child.

Do you really believe that with any changes in high places the Thai system will change? Don't be delusional. It never will!

If I didn't believe that, I would leave the country.

[kingalfred]

Look - I am rich and went to Thammasat so when I tell you this isn't a class struggle listen to me you ignorant peasants. Not that you can read this anyway, we don't bother wasting our time giving you an education. We want to continue telling you what to do but we would like to do it with an elected Government, or we will just use the army again. You have been warned!

Seriously though, who buys The Nation?

simple isnt it .If you are backing the shinawatras and the UDD you hate "the nation." You dont need to post.Your whole argument collapses if you cant make it a " class struggle",todays op ed Touched a raw nerve

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited February 26, 2014 by kingalfred

[binjalin]

another silly article from the elite mouthpiece

same pattern as in many other countries only difference in Thailand is that the mob is struggling AGAINST democracy whereas in every other country they fight FOR democracy TIT

the people will win through in the end but it's a long paradigm shift *sigh*

expect the elite to whine and struggle as it clings to power - the one clever thing they have done is convince some Thais and many TVF posters is that THEY (the un-democrats) are for democratic change, against corruption and want reform

clever that!!! but you can't fool all the people all of the time etc. and that is their problem (NO agenda, NO ideas, NO roadmap, NO timeline, NO suggestions of WHO these unelected 'rulers' will be)

Who exactly are the "elite" you refer to?

People with money? Business people? Someone else? Please clarify just "who" you think the elite is at the moment . . . and "why" you think they are elite . . . I'm very curious to know.

I generally agree with Binjalin and I define the "elite" as the old power structure who do TEND TO BE wealthy, well-educated, industrialists, capitalists, etc..., and are concentrated in Bangkok. What PRIMARILY DEFINES them as elitists is they are ANTI-DEMOCRATIC and believe the common people of Thailand who TEND TO BE poor, uneducated, small business owners or day-workers, farmers and dispersed throughout the rural areas are incapable of governing themselves. The "elites" believe they are the only ones who should be allowed to govern. A government built on this type of philosophy is usually some form of OLIGARCHY based on some combination of their qualities (wealth, education, birth, etc...).

That is how I define "elitists"...

I would add "old" money + "old" power (i.e. ammart) as the driving force of what I call 'elite'

specifically Thailand's triangular power culture (as compared to European/USA political 'flatter' structures where a President or "others" can be in Court and/or thrown out of office). Think "things we cannot discuss" and Privy Council etc.

The largest difference here is that Law is not the supreme decider (not unfettered Law anyway) whereas in other developed countries NO ONE is above the law - be they President/Prime Minister or 'other' (Spain?)

Most of Thailand's wealth is owned by very, very few families and to get on in any sphere (private or public sector) takes connections and money. A friends Uncle (as an example) is a Police General who openly admits to 'sponsoring' his rise to senior status and his family connections - he is definitely part of what I term the 'elite'.

It is a feudal society - not a meritocracy, it is a deferential culture not open and it is a few ruling over the great many

it has to change - the paradigm shift is happening and nothing can stop it - it can be painful or less painful and that depends on the players but there is a grain of truth in 'Rich vs Rich against the many' but, for me, an elected government under pressure to reform the WHOLE system top to bottom is infinitely preferable to 'unelected elites' ruling over the 'stupid' masses - that is the road to perdition

Edited February 26, 2014 by binjalin

[hellodolly]

another silly article from the elite mouthpiece

same pattern as in many other countries only difference in Thailand is that the mob is struggling AGAINST democracy whereas in every other country they fight FOR democracy TIT

the people will win through in the end but it's a long paradigm shift *sigh*

expect the elite to whine and struggle as it clings to power - the one clever thing they have done is convince some Thais and many TVF posters is that THEY (the un-democrats) are for democratic change, against corruption and want reform

clever that!!! but you can't fool all the people all of the time etc. and that is their problem (NO agenda, NO ideas, NO roadmap, NO timeline, NO suggestions of WHO these unelected 'rulers' will be)

Well you can fool some of the people all of the time.

No suggestions who these unelected rulers will be is true. But it is not true that there is no time line. The time line mentioned was a year to a year and a half. Also it is said what their purpose would be.

Now there is a lot of unknowns in here. But I for one would rather see them tried out than the continuation of what we do have as a known.

Some times you have to just say enough is enough. I don't have the answer but what I do have is no longer acceptable and must be changed.

To say that Thailand has no people capable of doing the job is ridicules. To say that they must meet with my approval is also ridicules. There should be guide lines laid out as to who they are and one of the guide lines should be people willing to work for the good of all not just the good of a certain party which as has been pointed out a certain set of elite support. Each party has there own elite supporters as they have upper class middle class and the poor supporters. It is not my belief that all the elite have political goals that they are willing to fight for and cause death and destruction. That is a myth.

Yes there is one clan and we know who there core leader is and there reason for controlling the Government. They need want the money in the treasury to be in their pocket and that of there close friends.

We can easily see what will happen down the line if we look at some of the African countries. We do how ever have a chance to change that now.

The choice is clear no mystery let it continue to slide down hill or make an attempt at changing it.

Of course just my opinion.

Edited February 26, 2014 by hellodolly

[canuckamuck]

Thaksin should not have help the poor in the fist place.

Now the poor is addicted to Money, farm subsidy, pick-up truck, smart phones, etc,

They keep asking for more.

Yes only those who are in a better class should dream of nice things.

[hellodolly]

The Nation can take their "stoppage time" opinions and shove them up their a**. Its getting extremely tedious listening to their obfuscation and one sided reporting from their journalists.

Leave Thai Visa then.

Read the Bangkok post.

Thai Visa has no other real source of articles. Occasional they will find one but for the most part they subscribe to the Nation.

I get the Bangkok post headlines on my hotmail about 5 times a day. Believe it or not there has been more people murdered by terrorists in the southern provinces in the last three months than by Government supporters against the

anti government supporters. Do we hear about that on Thai Visa from the Nation?

Haven't got through all the articles here on Thai Visa but I know Yingluck Chalerm and others are going to be charged with murder by relatives of the deceased. Rightly so.

[PREM-R]

another silly article from the elite mouthpiece

same pattern as in many other countries only difference in Thailand is that the mob is struggling AGAINST democracy whereas in every other country they fight FOR democracy TIT

the people will win through in the end but it's a long paradigm shift *sigh*

expect the elite to whine and struggle as it clings to power - the one clever thing they have done is convince some Thais and many TVF posters is that THEY (the un-democrats) are for democratic change, against corruption and want reform

clever that!!! but you can't fool all the people all of the time etc. and that is their problem (NO agenda, NO ideas, NO roadmap, NO timeline, NO suggestions of WHO these unelected 'rulers' will be)

Well you can fool some of the people all of the time.

No suggestions who these unelected rulers will be is true. But it is not true that there is no time line. The time line mentioned was a year to a year and a half. Also it is said what their purpose would be.

Now there is a lot of unknowns in here. But I for one would rather see them tried out than the continuation of what we do have as a known.

Some times you have to just say enough is enough. I don't have the answer but what I do have is no longer acceptable and must be changed.

To say that Thailand has no people capable of doing the job is ridicules. To say that they must meet with my approval is also ridicules. There should be guide lines laid out as to who they are and one of the guide lines should be people willing to work for the good of all not just the good of a certain party which as has been pointed out a certain set of elite support. Each party has there own elite supporters as they have upper class middle class and the poor supporters. It is not my belief that all the elite have political goals that they are willing to fight for and cause death and destruction. That is a myth.

Yes there is one clan and we know who there core leader is and there reason for controlling the Government. They need want the money in the treasury to be in their pocket and that of there close friends.

We can easily see what will happen down the line if we look at some of the African countries. We do how ever have a chance to change that now.

The choice is clear no mystery let it continue to slide down hill or make an attempt at changing it.

Of course just my opinion.

"But it is not true that there is no time line. The time line mentioned was a year to a year and a half."

But who says that the time line will be a year to a year and a half? Suthep!! What happens in a year to a year and a half if 'good people' decide that they are not going to call elections? What is there to compel them to do so? Once the domocratic system is destroyed it will not be back any time soon. An elected government has a set in stone, finite period, in which to operate, after which another election has to take place. No such constraint will be placed on the 'good people' which cannot, regardless of where you come from, be a good thing.

Edited February 26, 2014 by PREM-R

[Lupatria]

It's about having access to the trough for the next 50 years. One lot of oligarchs had it for the last 50, this is about settling who gets shoved out or stays for the next.

I guess it is more a struggle between the untouchable, influencial family clans who are ruling this country for decades. Sad but interesting to see that so many people regardless of the color are willingly taking the part becoming pawn sacrifice on their masters chess board.

That prooves education of the masses is not welcomed by the upper part and probably to inconvenient for the lower side. Ever heard the phrase: thinking makes me headache, overhere? The millenniums-old give ‘ em bread and games strategy works well here in form of Thai-soaps and EPL. In Thailand hese things seem far more attractive than thoughts about the strukture of the society people live in.

Edited February 26, 2014 by Lupatria

[charmonman]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

another silly article from the elite mouthpiece

same pattern as in many other countries only difference in Thailand is that the mob is struggling AGAINST democracy whereas in every other country they fight FOR democracy TIT

the people will win through in the end but it's a long paradigm shift *sigh*

expect the elite to whine and struggle as it clings to power - the one clever thing they have done is convince some Thais and many TVF posters is that THEY (the un-democrats) are for democratic change, against corruption and want reform

clever that!!! but you can't fool all the people all of the time etc. and that is their problem (NO agenda, NO ideas, NO roadmap, NO timeline, NO suggestions of WHO these unelected 'rulers' will be)

Please explain how all the wealthy PTP/Red-Shirt figures named in the article are not members of an "elite". Thaksin and Yingluck are not "elite"? Thaksin was no different from any other member of the elites, he was just greedier, more aggressive, more efficient at milking the system, and more willing to create chaos to serve his own selfish ends.

No, rather than think about whether what the writer is saying is valid, you would rather just dismiss the whole thing and call him an "elite mouthpiece".

I agree with this article and I am not an elite Thai or an "elite mouthpiece", just an observer of Thai politics since well before Thaksin emerged and poisoned everything. All this talk about this being about rich vs poor or urban elites vs. farmers is just a load of utter BS.

[mrtoad]

another silly article from the elite mouthpiece

same pattern as in many other countries only difference in Thailand is that the mob is struggling AGAINST democracy whereas in every other country they fight FOR democracy TIT

the people will win through in the end but it's a long paradigm shift *sigh*

expect the elite to whine and struggle as it clings to power - the one clever thing they have done is convince some Thais and many TVF posters is that THEY (the un-democrats) are for democratic change, against corruption and want reform

clever that!!! but you can't fool all the people all of the time etc. and that is their problem (NO agenda, NO ideas, NO roadmap, NO timeline, NO suggestions of WHO these unelected 'rulers' will be)

Who exactly are the "elite" you refer to?

People with money? Business people? Someone else? Please clarify just "who" you think the elite is at the moment . . . and "why" you think they are elite . . . I'm very curious to know.

I generally agree with Binjalin and I define the "elite" as the old power structure who do TEND TO BE wealthy, well-educated, industrialists, capitalists, etc..., and are concentrated in Bangkok. What PRIMARILY DEFINES them as elitists is they are ANTI-DEMOCRATIC and believe the common people of Thailand who TEND TO BE poor, uneducated, small business owners or day-workers, farmers and dispersed throughout the rural areas are incapable of governing themselves. The "elites" believe they are the only ones who should be allowed to govern. A government built on this type of philosophy is usually some form of OLIGARCHY based on some combination of their qualities (wealth, education, birth, etc...).

That is how I define "elitists"...

Would you be kind enough to define, what PTP's ideology and definition of democracy is? How Thaksin has promoted democracy, through his words and actions?

The Red's are quick to say anyone who disagrees with them is anti-democratic, but I've not seen anything yet from that side that suggests any democratic principles? Maybe I'm missing something? Don't wheel out "I come from Election"

[Crushdepth]

Careful. We are perilously close to having a real debate here!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[mrtoad]

Careful. We are perilously close to having a real debate here!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Don't worry, we'll get "But Suthep....."