Anti “secession” banner emerges in Phitsanulok

[webfact]

Anti “secession” banner emerges in Phitsanulok



PHITSANULOK: -- A large banner opposing the secession of the northern and northeast regions was placed at a pedestrian overpass in Phitsanulok province this morning.

The banner was placed at the side of the overpass on Singhawat road, near the Phitsanulok Muang district office.

It was not known who or which group placed the anti secession banner on the overpass.

But earlier on February 26, a large banner advocating the secession of the North and the Northeast was also placed at a pedestrian overpass on Phitsanulok-Nakhon Sawan road. The banner was quickly removed by local authorities.

Earlier last Sunday at the protest rally of the red-shirts in Nakhon Ratchasima where caretaker Interior Minister and ruling Pheu Thai party leader Charupong Ruangsuwan attended, hardcore redshirts declared to secede the country’s north and northeast regions to establish what they called “Isan-Lanna” state and also encouraged over 10 millions of people who have guns to get ready for final showdown with anti-government protesters.

Later, core members of the Pheu Thai party, including Chalerm Yoobamrung, director of the Center for Maintaining Peace and Order, came out to defend the secession threat saying it was just “political rhetorics” of politicians and they didn’t mean it seriously.

But the secession issue has enraged several groups of people in the country which include the military and anti-government protesters, saying it was tantamount to blatantly declare rebellion.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/anti-secession-banner-emerges-phitsanulok/


-- Thai PBS 2014-02-28

[coma]

"hardcore red shirts declared to secede the country’s north and northeast regions to establish what they called “Isan-Lanna” state"

Like I said in an earlier thread. A landlocked "Isan-Lanna" state bordering with the landlocked metropolis of the PDR Lao would be nothing short of a economical dust bowl. The north are kidding themselves if they think they can get by without commerce hub Bangkok, the resource rich southern provinces and those other provinces bordering the Gulf of Thailand and the Andaman sea.

[marcusd]

I must agree with the military...it is rebellion. How would the poor north survive without the intelligent people?.

Rice is a large part of Thai gdp but look how many people it takes and the return on investment?. Very poor indeed.

And only Chiang Mai is wealthy.

And who would gave the brains in this new north to run the country?

What a joke.

Marcusd. Via tapatalk

[Cuchulainn]

I must agree with the military...it is rebellion. How would the poor north survive without the intelligent people?.

Rice is a large part of Thai gdp but look how many people it takes and the return on investment?. Very poor indeed.

And only Chiang Mai is wealthy.

And who would gave the brains in this new north to run the country?

What a joke.

Marcusd. Via tapatalk

I think you've just stirred a hornet's nest!

[Cuchulainn]

"hardcore red shirts declared to secede the country’s north and northeast regions to establish what they called “Isan-Lanna” state"

Like I said in an earlier thread. A landlocked "Isan-Lanna" state bordering with the landlocked metropolis of the PDR Lao would be nothing short of a economical dust bowl. The north are kidding themselves if they think they can get by without commerce hub Bangkok, the resource rich southern provinces and those other provinces bordering the Gulf of Thailand and the Andaman sea.

Let them!!! And when it does become an economic dust bowl, we'll see just how much the Shinawatras love them by putting their hands trotters in their pockets to help them.

Not a penny.

[LevelHead]

"hardcore red shirts declared to secede the country’s north and northeast regions to establish what they called “Isan-Lanna” state"

Like I said in an earlier thread. A landlocked "Isan-Lanna" state bordering with the landlocked metropolis of the PDR Lao would be nothing short of a economical dust bowl. The north are kidding themselves if they think they can get by without commerce hub Bangkok, the resource rich southern provinces and those other provinces bordering the Gulf of Thailand and the Andaman sea.

Why would it be landlocked ? Lots of access to the sea from Chonburi all the way to the Cambodian border.

The north and central provinces generate pretty much most of Thailands GDP.

The north generates pretty much all of Thailands electrical power.

The north controls all the water flows through the country.

A seperated North/Central "Lanna/Isaan" block would have all the electrical power, all the labour, all the water and generate loads of money.

Without the Central/North block Bangkok and the south would have NO water, NO electrical power, pretty much NO labour - and soon all the factories would move out of Bangkok/South.

This is why Bangkok and the South get so upset about talk of a divide - they offer nothing and live of off the North/Central area's. power generation, water flows, crops, GDP generation etc...

All in my opnion of course.

[Spartakos]

I am sure that tarit is falling over himself in a rush to push treason charges against this idiots.

[pkspeaker]

What LevelHead is saying is correct, if the country is going to be divided then the "lanna' state (although I think they should simply call it by it's former 'Siam').. then the Northern state must have access to the GoT via LaemChabang, which would also be shared with Thailand, and the 'borderers between the 2 will have to be fluid--that's where it becomes very hard to divide the country, most people are going to fume if they have to approache a border like Cambodia or Myanmar everytime they want to go back and forth-it is this issue that will make dividing the country amicably very difficult..

more likly you might have a 'situation' like other countries that have fallen into civil war where you have all these militia controlled areas everywhere.. then tax collection becomes impossible and any divided country will likly be in economic ruin, at least for a while.

[icommunity]

What is the use of enraged when they are people feeling that they are being unjustly pushed to the edge of the cliff?

[JoeThePoster]

Stand by for the Maoists to infiltrate from the north to fight for the Isaan-Lanna cause.

[bigbamboo]

I am sure that tarit is falling over himself in a rush to push treason charges against this idiots.

And Chalerm is just falling over.

[stranger-in-paradise]

It does seem an odd objective to me. A new state would be economically fragile. It doesn't look like an obvious proposition, unless it is for something else, such as to create a stronger sense of "national" identity. Fighting for an ideal, or a strong leader, is not easy. But add a "homeland" and it may be plausible. The call to arms is ominous.

[zakk9]

"hardcore red shirts declared to secede the country’s north and northeast regions to establish what they called “Isan-Lanna” state"

Like I said in an earlier thread. A landlocked "Isan-Lanna" state bordering with the landlocked metropolis of the PDR Lao would be nothing short of a economical dust bowl. The north are kidding themselves if they think they can get by without commerce hub Bangkok, the resource rich southern provinces and those other provinces bordering the Gulf of Thailand and the Andaman sea.

Why would it be landlocked ? Lots of access to the sea from Chonburi all the way to the Cambodian border.

The north and central provinces generate pretty much most of Thailands GDP.

The north generates pretty much all of Thailands electrical power.

The north controls all the water flows through the country.

A seperated North/Central "Lanna/Isaan" block would have all the electrical power, all the labour, all the water and generate loads of money.

Without the Central/North block Bangkok and the south would have NO water, NO electrical power, pretty much NO labour - and soon all the factories would move out of Bangkok/South.

This is why Bangkok and the South get so upset about talk of a divide - they offer nothing and live of off the North/Central area's. power generation, water flows, crops, GDP generation etc...

All in my opnion of course.

They talk about Lanna plus Isan. Central Thailand is not a part of that. Neither is Chonburi. They would have no access to the sea, very little industry and the least productive agricultural areas.

[WilliamCave]

Is it really just a political tactic or is it really a start to separation , history does show in other countries this is we're things start and greasy people who want control

So there might just be something in this gossip about separation if YL is ousted .

[agent69]

Seccesion would ruin Thaksin plan of becoming the first president of United States of Thaksin by combining Myanmar, Cambodia & Thailand!

[TVGerry]

It's okay when red shirts want to secede. If the protestors did that, Chalerm would have called them traitors already and threatened to send in the police to arrest them all.

[Spartakos]

I am sure that tarit is falling over himself in a rush to push treason charges against this idiots.

And Chalerm is just falling over.

No no, I heard that he is on tough training schedule in preparations for that championship belt fight against Suthep.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[pkspeaker]

keep in mind the 'red' constitute the majority, so putting the succession card out there they are essentially asking the PAD/PDRC "Do you want a separate state so that you don't have 'to be ruled' by"tyranny of the majority"" , since that's what you keep accusing us of, ie ?

[chainarong]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I must agree with the military...it is rebellion. How would the poor north survive without the intelligent people?.

Rice is a large part of Thai gdp but look how many people it takes and the return on investment?. Very poor indeed.

And only Chiang Mai is wealthy.

And who would gave the brains in this new north to run the country?

What a joke.

Marcusd. Via tapatalk

Junta to the North, Democracy to the South

[pkspeaker]

also notice that the civil war already gets started on threads like this with people saying Chonburi is ours!, no it's ours!

i think a unity government might start to look doable after people consider the consequences of civil war..

[kikoman]

"hardcore red shirts declared to secede the country’s north and northeast regions to establish what they called “Isan-Lanna” state"

Like I said in an earlier thread. A landlocked "Isan-Lanna" state bordering with the landlocked metropolis of the PDR Lao would be nothing short of a economical dust bowl. The north are kidding themselves if they think they can get by without commerce hub Bangkok, the resource rich southern provinces and those other provinces bordering the Gulf of Thailand and the Andaman sea.

Why would it be landlocked ? Lots of access to the sea from Chonburi all the way to the Cambodian border.

The north and central provinces generate pretty much most of Thailands GDP.

The north generates pretty much all of Thailands electrical power.

The north controls all the water flows through the country.

A seperated North/Central "Lanna/Isaan" block would have all the electrical power, all the labour, all the water and generate loads of money.

Without the Central/North block Bangkok and the south would have NO water, NO electrical power, pretty much NO labour - and soon all the factories would move out of Bangkok/South.

This is why Bangkok and the South get so upset about talk of a divide - they offer nothing and live of off the North/Central area's. power generation, water flows, crops, GDP generation etc...

All in my opnion of course.

They talk about Lanna plus Isan. Central Thailand is not a part of that. Neither is Chonburi. They would have no access to the sea, very little industry and the least productive agricultural areas.

Wrong again Central Thailand is part of it, why would I know because I live in Central Thailand, the rice bowl of the country, the Farmers that were suppose to protest at the air port were from Central Thailand but did not want to be used by the PDRC or the Media as part of the protest against the government, they turned around and came home

Check it out Central Thailand voted for PTP solidly in the last elections,

Cheers

Edited February 28, 2014 by kikoman

[bulekee]

it's a numbers game,up north they forget how many northeners make a living fron bkk, i.e. taxi drivers/bar girls etc.

[Thai at Heart]

I must agree with the military...it is rebellion. How would the poor north survive without the intelligent people?.

Rice is a large part of Thai gdp but look how many people it takes and the return on investment?. Very poor indeed.

And only Chiang Mai is wealthy.

And who would gave the brains in this new north to run the country?

What a joke.

Marcusd. Via tapatalk

Not to say that they could survive, but there is a huge wealth transfer from the north and north east every year to bangkok.

Every company of any size in the country administers itself in bangkok and thus pays its vat and such there. Thus skews the GDP of bangkok up. If local authorities could levy more local taxes on businesses it would reduce this transfer to bangkok.

The wealth creation of bangkok versus the rest of the country is not as disproporionate as it appears.

[Dogmatix]

Let them knock themselves out and try this. The North would probably end up begging to be a part of Burma and Isaan could go back to being a part of Laos again.

Agriculture including rice (and many other products) is actually only 10% if GDP but occupies over 30% of the work force. So it is hugely inefficient. The taxpayers' money that has been squandered (including the govt's bad debts) on rice production in two years is equivalent to around 3% of GDP and the only result to show is the destruction of Thailand's rice export competitiveness that will take years to recover, if ever.

If they form their own state(s) in the North and the Northeast ruled by Chinese and Southerner dictators (Jatuporn, Nattawut, Veera, Thida etc are all Southerners), Bkk and the South can let their rice rot and import what they need from India and Vietnam - better quality and lower prices.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Dogmatix

[ikurauni]

Thaksin might want to create a new country in the north just like Korea. He has strong supporters in the north and does not care people is the south.

It will be a civil war and the dark age of Thailand will begin. It is time to move out.

[pkspeaker]

seems like the current option:

* 'just let the protesters stay there forever while the government stumbles from caretaker to caretaker as PMs role switches hands as MPs are shot down by courts.

so far this has been the best option for the last three months, maybe central bangkok can just be a fairsground, they been there so long everyone's gotten used to it, the local malls suffer but a bunch of unauthorized street vendors have opened up. why would that change in another 3 months, the protesters won't come down because they can't 'loose face' so it seems very difficult to ever get rid of them w/o doing something grouse.

[zakk9]

"hardcore red shirts declared to secede the country’s north and northeast regions to establish what they called “Isan-Lanna” state"

Like I said in an earlier thread. A landlocked "Isan-Lanna" state bordering with the landlocked metropolis of the PDR Lao would be nothing short of a economical dust bowl. The north are kidding themselves if they think they can get by without commerce hub Bangkok, the resource rich southern provinces and those other provinces bordering the Gulf of Thailand and the Andaman sea.

Why would it be landlocked ? Lots of access to the sea from Chonburi all the way to the Cambodian border.

The north and central provinces generate pretty much most of Thailands GDP.

The north generates pretty much all of Thailands electrical power.

The north controls all the water flows through the country.

A seperated North/Central "Lanna/Isaan" block would have all the electrical power, all the labour, all the water and generate loads of money.

Without the Central/North block Bangkok and the south would have NO water, NO electrical power, pretty much NO labour - and soon all the factories would move out of Bangkok/South.

This is why Bangkok and the South get so upset about talk of a divide - they offer nothing and live of off the North/Central area's. power generation, water flows, crops, GDP generation etc...

All in my opnion of course.

They talk about Lanna plus Isan. Central Thailand is not a part of that. Neither is Chonburi. They would have no access to the sea, very little industry and the least productive agricultural areas.

Wrong again Central Thailand is part of it, why would I know because I live in Central Thailand, the rice bowl of the country, the Farmers that were suppose to protest at the air port were from Central Thailand!

Check it out Central Thailand voted for PTP solidly in the last elections,

Cheers

Neither the planned airport protest nor the last election has anything to do with it, and if anything, the cancelled protest was against the government. The support for the government and the reds is sinking fast now, also among the farmers. Also, the red-shirt leaders spoke specifically about a Lanna-Isan state. Central Thailand has never been a part of either Lanna or Isan.

[LevelHead]

"hardcore red shirts declared to secede the country’s north and northeast regions to establish what they called “Isan-Lanna” state"

Like I said in an earlier thread. A landlocked "Isan-Lanna" state bordering with the landlocked metropolis of the PDR Lao would be nothing short of a economical dust bowl. The north are kidding themselves if they think they can get by without commerce hub Bangkok, the resource rich southern provinces and those other provinces bordering the Gulf of Thailand and the Andaman sea.

Why would it be landlocked ? Lots of access to the sea from Chonburi all the way to the Cambodian border.

The north and central provinces generate pretty much most of Thailands GDP.

The north generates pretty much all of Thailands electrical power.

The north controls all the water flows through the country.

A seperated North/Central "Lanna/Isaan" block would have all the electrical power, all the labour, all the water and generate loads of money.

Without the Central/North block Bangkok and the south would have NO water, NO electrical power, pretty much NO labour - and soon all the factories would move out of Bangkok/South.

This is why Bangkok and the South get so upset about talk of a divide - they offer nothing and live of off the North/Central area's. power generation, water flows, crops, GDP generation etc...

All in my opnion of course.

They talk about Lanna plus Isan. Central Thailand is not a part of that. Neither is Chonburi. They would have no access to the sea, very little industry and the least productive agricultural areas.

I think you are not on the ball here in regards to what has been discussed in many places.

Take a look at the map on the link below :

http://www.correntewire.com/random_observations_on_the_situation_in_thailand

That map shows the often of late dsicussed split. A northern red coloured "Siam". A middle bit Bangkok and the South being "Thailand" and then the problem area in the south.

From that you can see the North/Central area has all the power generation, all the agri-land, all the GDP generation, all the water and all the labour.

Bangkok and the South would be pretty much useless, just some Palm Oil and Rubber sold to Bangkok traders to sell on - if they had an electricity and of course any water and indeed any labour ?

Of course this is being discussed purely as a discussion point, nobody is saying it will happen or has to happen.

All of course is just opinon and discussion.

[kikoman]

Let them knock themselves out and try this. The North would probably end up begging to be a part of Burma and Isaan could go back to being a part of Laos again.

Agriculture including rice (and many other products) is actually only 10% if GDP but occupies over 30% of the work force. So it is hugely inefficient. The taxpayers' money that has been squandered (including the govt's bad debts) on rice production in two years is equivalent to around 3% of GDP and the only result to show is the destruction of Thailand's rice export competitiveness that will take years to recover, if ever.

If they form their own state(s) in the North and the Northeast ruled by Chinese and Southerner dictators (Jatuporn, Nattawut, Veera, Thida etc are all Southerners), Bkk and the South can let their rice rot and import what they need from India and Vietnam - better quality and lower prices.

Yea and the Suthep people will eat palm oil and rubber instead of rice and could drink red bull instead of water!

Cheers

[Dogmatix]

I must agree with the military...it is rebellion. How would the poor north survive without the intelligent people?.

Rice is a large part of Thai gdp but look how many people it takes and the return on investment?. Very poor indeed.

And only Chiang Mai is wealthy.

And who would gave the brains in this new north to run the country?

What a joke.

Marcusd. Via tapatalk

Not to say that they could survive, but there is a huge wealth transfer from the north and north east every year to bangkok.

Every company of any size in the country administers itself in bangkok and thus pays its vat and such there. Thus skews the GDP of bangkok up. If local authorities could levy more local taxes on businesses it would reduce this transfer to bangkok.

The wealth creation of bangkok versus the rest of the country is not as disproporionate as it appears.

That is probably correct but Bangkok itself still generates a huge chunk of the nation's GDP even adjusting for this. Then there is the Eastern Seaboard, Pattaya, Phuket and Samui vs only Chiang Mai in the North and Northeast. Other provincial cities up there cannot generate tax revenue, even with local collection of VAT and corporate profit tax to support their inefficient agrarian bases outside the cities. The result would be a sudden, sharp drop in living standards and requests for aid from Bkk and the South.