Saw a guy assaulting his lady - my girlfriend wanted to turn a blind eye

[Runamile]

Noi657 Hehehe. Love it! Cats and pigeons. Maybe you should make the question two part, though:

1. Where she is just a farang woman.

2. Where she is the Thai guy's girlfriend.

That said, I think we both know the answer in both cases!

[stickylies]

self-defence implies there is an act of physical offense (agression). the latter is always wrong too of course.

but human race is a violent lifeform (then, now, tomorrow), nature of the beast...

[sean in udon]

A conundrum this one. Should I shouldn't I?

As always on TV, I enjoy the many and varied replies.

I think a mix of judging the circumstance, your own ability to protect yourself, personal experience and your own moral code are in play as to the reaction at the precise moment you become aware of a situation like this.

People slapping each other about, even if it's one way, screaming and shouting is one thing. And can sometimes be entertaining.

When someone, male or female, or something (dog or other animal) is taking an absolute one sided beating, I draw the line. A few years ago, I would have physically intervened without thinking. Now, I would interrupt with a question. 'Excuse me. Did this person kill someone in your family?' 'Did this dog savage your child?'

'I think they've had enough'

However, if the person did kill someone in their family or the dog had savaged their child, 'may I help?'

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Toscano]

Your girlfriend probably knows best . Thailand is a tricky place , you might easily be beaten up too , or find yourself as the accused by the woman , because you can always make a Farang pay .

Likewise never stop for any kind of motor accident you are not involved in , or you'll be accused of causing it , because a Farang has money and can pay .

[BWPattaya]

One danger I've seen for getting involved in domestics (back home as well as in Thailand) is that the victim can sometimes become protective of the abuser and turn on the person coming to her aid.

This has happened to me twice. Intervened and the girlfriend turned on me.

[Runamile]

@BWPattaya: Frankly, that's quite a regular response - but at least you can feel you did the right thing. That said, even that can be argued against. You might have brought them back together - until the next time! Hugely, difficult - and split-second decisions. We can only do our best from the information available, and given it's out particular brain interpreting it. Perhaps the biggest point is to never, subsequently, beat yourself up!

[JimHuaHin]

I totally share your concern, and would have done the same thing ... fully aware of the potential repercussions for me ... the Thai male and his friends find out where I live and come bash me to death (I have heard of this happening several times when I was living in Bangkok in the late 1990s).

People may want to read an opinon piece in today's (Sunday's) "Bangkok Post" on the high rate of domestic violence in Thailand.

This is not an issue of Western values vs. non-Western values, it is about human rights and human dignity, and certainly it is about Buddhist values.

One hopes that the growing number of Thais who are active in the anti-domestic violence arena, gain more influence and power over time, and we see more public and school education programmes about, and stronger enforced laws against, domestic violence in Thai society.

[louse1953]

Chivalry's a cultural artifact of western, Christian culture.

Good on ya, but be prepared to sleep in that bed. . .

As I hinted, it was not about chivalry. I would have done the same thing if it was a guy getting the ess kicked out of him. I am aware that this is a cultural thing, one that I can even sympathize with to some extent, but not when someone may be about to get seriously injured.

No way this is a cultural thing,it's domestic violence,not to be tolerated.If you let things like this pass,you are part of the problem.Next step it will be like India,small stands must be made.

[AussieSteve]

Not all Thai's are like most of the one's mentioned in these replies. Some do have compassion.

I know the thread is about intervening in violent attacks, but it has been suggested on this and previous threads that we don't stop for traffic accidents either.

I was driving down a busy freeway near Don Muang airport with my Thai GF and we came across a motorcyclist who was laying in the middle of one of the lanes with a police officer standing at the side of the road on his phone. There were a few motorbike riders standing around him, one of them was warning the traffic.

I remarked to my GF that anywhere but Thailand and maybe a few other countries I would have stopped to see if I could help. Her reply was why not stop here. I mentioned I could be held accountable for his injuries which they could have attributed to my handling of him. But she was concerned about his health. I am a trained E.M.T. but I don't know what if any standing that would have here.

I don't know what she would say about me intervening in a physical assault though.

By the way I did notice he was conscious, couldn't see any major bleeds, so there wasn't a lot I could have done for him anyway.

[Nayet]

Mom? Is that you making all the posts about intervening being fraught with danger? Don't worry, I've been watching self defense videos on youtube:

By the way, I did mention the guy was Asian - not sure what nationality, but had he been Thai, I would have said he was Thai. Does it make any difference? Maybe, maybe not.

Of course I realize that intervening is never 100% risk-free. I sized the guy up and decided it was worth the risk of having five of his Japanese buddies appearing out of nowhere, and since I didn't even have to touch him, an armed response seemed unlikely. I know that few good deeds go unpunished, and like I have already said, I rarely find reason to get mixed up in other people's business, but I still think it is reasonable to evaluate each scenario on its own merits instead of living by a blanket policy of never intervening.

Again, there may have been good reasons not to step in - who knows, for example, what nefarious s*** the lady had been up to - but concern for my own safety was not one of them in this case. If there is nothing inside you that moves you when you see someone getting their face rearranged, then I completely understand why you wouldn't get involved, but if you do feel moved and still do nothing, then that sounds like a textbook definition of "spineless," bearing in mind the aforementioned circumstances.

If you think it's stupid to intervene merely because it goes against Thai norms, then you are a sheep. If there is one thing we have too much of, it is people whose highest goal in life is to fit in. In my opinion, only dead fish go with the flow.

To those who think that I made it worse for the girl; of course I can't control what happens after I have left the scene, but at least I gave her a chance to escape relatively unharmed. If she doesn't stay away from the guy, then that is up to her. Would you reason the same way if it was your child getting assaulted by class mates? After all, if you intervene, your kid may be facing hell when he/she returns to school the next day.

What I wanted to discuss, of course, was my girlfriend's reaction, and it did occur to me that she may have been concerned about my safety. So I guess I won't break up with her just yet.

[wonder6281]

As a man i always thought it was wrong to hit a woman, i still do.

However in Thailand, when it comes to this sort of things, even police stays out of it.

As sickening as it sounds and looks, best to stay out of it, as most possibly you would be in the wrong.

This coming from someone in another thread about growing balls .. So if a woman is getting beaten you stay out of it but on the other hand if it doesn't involve a woman, you grow balls!

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Runamile]

@ Wonder6281 My God. I've got so much cultural learning to do. But I've got it -man on man, intervene. Man on woman, don't intervene. OK, so far, so good, but, in Thailand, I've one rather obvious problem - all those katoeys. What do I do about them? Do I have to ask for physical evidence of the extent of their conversion? If so, what level of surgical intervention do I take as proof of what?

Hell, this would be getting difficult, if I weren't joking. Worthy of thought, though, is how interventionist we'd be if it were a katoey being knocked around. Bit like when someone asked earlier for us to imagine the girl were a farang.

[wonder6281]

A person who stops to treat another person after a medical emergency or accident can be held liable unless they possess "first responder" certification, it's for that reason that lots of people stand around watching as people die following accidents. Perhaps the issues are related, fear of reprisal, fear of liability?

Are you sure of this? Also, in most countries if you stand back and witness a crime and do nothing you can be charged. You can claim that you would place yourself in physical danger by helping however.

In Australia you are indemnified if deemed as casual volunteer if you have no training. In Thailand I'd suggest you are deemed nosey!

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited March 2, 2014 by wonder6281

[wonder6281]

@ Wonder6281 My God. I've got so much cultural learning to do. But I've got it -man on man, intervene. Man on woman, don't intervene. OK, so far, so good, but, in Thailand, I've one rather obvious problem - all those katoeys. What do I do about them? Do I have to ask for physical evidence of the extent of their conversion? If so, what level of surgical intervention do I take as proof of what?

Hell, this would be getting difficult, if I weren't joking. Worthy of thought, though, is how interventionist we'd be if it were a katoey being knocked around. Bit like when someone asked earlier for us to imagine the girl were a farang.

You misunderstood my post! My actions are not to intervene at all! I never trust that a Thai will fight fair or alone.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Benmart]

Chivalry's a cultural artifact of western, Christian culture.

Good on ya, but be prepared to sleep in that bed. . .

Protecting the weak and defenseless can be found in most cultures, not just the Christian variety.

Coming to the aid of another, be it an assault, natural or medical emergency, is a personal choice. Sleep, for me, comes much easier with a clear conscience.

[manarak]

OP might oversee that in situations in Thailand such as which he described, it is not unheard of that suddenly a gun gets pulled out of nowhere and emptied into the white knight.

[louse1953]

Your morals and ethics are in the right place, good for you. I think most folk would want to do what you did. The thing here isn't that your gf didn't care, she was just looking out for you.

You go to try and stop the fight, not only could you be on the receiving end of a knife or gun, but if any Thai guys saw your grappling with the Asian guy; they would take his side and help him; however wrong that might be.

Tough call. Not sure what I would have done, natural instinct says yes; my head may say no.

Saw a farang guy repeatedly punch a Thai girl in the face in Robin Hood, a couple of months back. It was such a shock, that no-one did anything for the first minute as it was all a blur and you couldn't believe what you witnessed. The guy acted like he was some sort of legend, it was only when the rest of the male population of the bar moved in on the guy (all held back by their ladies by the way), that the guy was hurried out of the bar.

I hate to admit it but you are 100% correct. It would go against the grain but as my wife has often warned, you can get yourself and/or anyone with you, badly damaged or killed by trying to help a victim in these circumstances. You might even find that his "victim" will turn on you as well. Sad but true!

It happens all over the world, ask any Cop from any country but here in Thailand there is this feeling of apathy when it comes to "getting involved in an attempt to right a wrong."

Lets hope your not on the receiving end one day and i walk past and turn a blind eye.Then it will be"the farang guy didn't even help.Personally i don't forget everything that makes me.me.You take a chance in life all the time.

[Runamile]

Hell , Wonder6281. You put in a disclaimer! I was going to seek compensation from you if I got hurt in one of these men on men situations. Hell, I'm not quite sure "men on men situations" is quite true to my intended meaning!!

Edited March 2, 2014 by Runamile

[Noi657]

Chivalry's a cultural artifact of western, Christian culture.

Good on ya, but be prepared to sleep in that bed. . .

As I hinted, it was not about chivalry. I would have done the same thing if it was a guy getting the ess kicked out of him. I am aware that this is a cultural thing, one that I can even sympathize with to some extent, but not when someone may be about to get seriously injured.

No way this is a cultural thing,it's domestic violence,not to be tolerated.If you let things like this pass,you are part of the problem.Next step it will be like India,small stands must be made.

However sometimes it's impossible to educate the uneducated!

[Hawkman]

Saw a farang guy repeatedly punch a Thai girl in the face in Robin Hood, a couple of months back. It was such a shock, that no-one did anything for the first minute as it was all a blur and you couldn't believe what you witnessed. The guy acted like he was some sort of legend, it was only when the rest of the male population of the bar moved in on the guy (all held back by their ladies by the way), that the guy was hurried out of the bar.

Hooker bar?

Anyway, op did a good thing. However im with the girl-stay out of it. Statistically -hours after the incident girl was probably making hot love to the guy and will probably be beaten another time. Domestic disputes are best handled by peo[ple who know whats actually happening.

Funny op described guy as asian but not specifically thai. Could have been business dispute............lol. Some guys just dont want to pay.

Nah, not a hooker bar, a British bar along Sukhumvit (though, I guess the odd bad girl would often visit).

At a guess, the Thai girl was up to no good, may have ripped off the guy or something or she was an ex or on the flip side, maybe he was up to no good and he cheated on her or something (she was with a couple of farang girls and had walked past him where he and his mates sat), but his reaction was inexcusable; and afterwards he sat down like he was a king and his mates weren't bothered what he had just done. True idiot.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Hawkman

[dukebowling]

Let's face it, you need to beak up with your girlfriend. She does not hold the same community standard as you do.

Find yourself a stronger girl with true society evolution as you do. The idea of turning the other cheek in this situation is an embarrassment to human kind.

All who suggest to ignore this kind of situation are small minded and weak.

[thailandbeachisland]

Let's face it, you need to beak up with your girlfriend. She does not hold the same community standard as you do.

Find yourself a stronger girl with true society evolution as you do. The idea of turning the other cheek in this situation is an embarrassment to human kind.

All who suggest to ignore this kind of situation are small minded and weak.

Hope your family appreciate when someone will have killed you because you were thinking you were Zorro avenger...

Edited March 2, 2014 by thailandbeachisland

[wym]

Chivalry's a cultural artifact of western, Christian culture.

Good on ya, but be prepared to sleep in that bed. . .

Protecting the weak and defenseless can be found in most cultures, not just the Christian variety.

Coming to the aid of another, be it an assault, natural or medical emergency, is a personal choice. Sleep, for me, comes much easier with a clear conscience.

You do understand the meaning of "good on ya" right? I was commending him for his personal choice.

And of course there are individuals in every culture that will sacrifice their own self-interest and risk a beating or even death to help a random stranger; I was in no way trying to imply that only Christian cultures have the monopoly on such noble behaviour.

However I do believe the strong incorporation of the ideals of chivalry - which happened to arise in a Christian context historically - into western culture is responsible for the idea that ordinary people are somehow OBLIGATED to do so and should be ashamed if they aren't so unselfish and brave.

I haven't come across other cultures (yet) that put that idea into practice quite so strongly as ours.

If you know of any then do please let us know, I'd like to learn more.

No way this is a cultural thing,it's domestic violence,not to be tolerated.If you let things like this pass,you are part of the problem.Next step it will be like India,small stands must be made.

Yes it is domestic violence, but many if not most cultures in the world do tolerate that; many in fact encourage it.

In fact I've got quite a few western friends that swear the only way they've kept their marriage together is by giving their wife an occasional slap to keep her insanity from tearing the household apart.

I'm not condoning this myself, have never laid hands on a woman - now that I think about it, except for grabbing wrists and bear-hug wrestling in self-defense against knives.

As I said, if you want to bring your own cultural ideas into play in this way with random strangers in the street in Thailand you're welcome to do so, and there are certainly contexts where I'd agree you're doing the right thing.

Just realize that you may pay for your idealism with your life, I don't want people underestimating the risk they're taking, that would be irresponsible.

[Mark T]

Let's face it, you need to beak up with your girlfriend. She does not hold the same community standard as you do.

Find yourself a stronger girl with true society evolution as you do. The idea of turning the other cheek in this situation is an embarrassment to human kind.

All who suggest to ignore this kind of situation are small minded and weak.

You try get the whole package, someone like the pix

[wolfmuc]

Be careful my farang friend. Notwithsanding your well-intended rescue, it may be seen by "observers" as Farang aggression against a Thai man, and you find out suddenly out of nowhere 5 or 6 of his friends commence giving you a beating.

Well said. Happened to me 10 years ago. Consequence 11 days hospital. - Take off your hands. All the same. Women or men, Farang or Thai.

[Maggusoil]

Chivalry's a cultural artifact of western, Christian culture.

Good on ya, but be prepared to sleep in that bed. . .

This is not necessarily so. There is plenty of chivalry in Asia.

Intervene?

That is a very good question.

Last time I used a camera to intervene in something, thinking it would stop, it did.

However I was then requested for the camera and the footage.

I ended up in hospital. It was not that serious, and I can handle myself at a great age, however intervening can be successful

and it can come at a price. The girlfriend was right, but we all have our conscience to deal with.

Thai men are harder on their women and less shy about showing it.

What is culturally acceptable to them is not to us.

That's one of the reasons their women find us attractive. We're definitely more civilised in this department. Not all of us, but enough

to get a good reputation.

[onlycw]

I hold strong views on one's obligation to protect women and children.

When I was 16, a drunk father was beating his adult daughter at a train station. There was a circle of onlookers and the daughter was crying.

I stepped forward and threw snow into the attackers face. He cursed and ran off.

On another occasion, a pitbull was pestering some woman with shopping bags. She sounded distressed. I wore sandals but delivered a kick into the dog's ribcage, prepared to follow up with a vicious karate strike to the spine from above (while expecting to get bitten badly). Well, the woman was angry at me - seems it was her dog! *** I'd been attacked by soi dogs and it's not a nice experience.

You, the OP, did the right thing. No matter what, physical abuse and violence against women is something I don't want to witness, doing nothing. Many a neighbor knew something when later comes out a child was starved or beaten to death.

Likewise, I've witnessed some motorcycle accidents and I always run out to assist the victims, if I can. Some locals said that's stupid, I might get "charged". But helping a bleeding woman get up and get to the the pavement can't be bad, can it?

[Seastallion]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

A person who stops to treat another person after a medical emergency or accident can be held liable unless they possess "first responder" certification, it's for that reason that lots of people stand around watching as people die following accidents. Perhaps the issues are related, fear of reprisal, fear of liability?

more like "not my business" to "cool show!"

and most places now have protective good samaritan laws

Yes, in fact in Australia it's an offence to not offer aid to an injured person.

[somchaismith]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

A person who stops to treat another person after a medical emergency or accident can be held liable unless they possess "first responder" certification, it's for that reason that lots of people stand around watching as people die following accidents. Perhaps the issues are related, fear of reprisal, fear of liability?

more like "not my business" to "cool show!"

and most places now have protective good samaritan laws

Yes, in fact in Australia it's an offence to not offer aid to an injured person.

Piffle! You will find that is an urban legend.

[wym]

A person who stops to treat another person after a medical emergency or accident can be held liable unless they possess "first responder" certification, it's for that reason that lots of people stand around watching as people die following accidents. Perhaps the issues are related, fear of reprisal, fear of liability?

more like "not my business" to "cool show!"

and most places now have protective good samaritan laws

Yes, in fact in Australia it's an offence to not offer aid to an injured person.

Not for civilians. Maybe on-duty security guards, EMS etc, but only up to what's covered by their training.