Missing Malaysia Airlines jet carrying 239 triggers Southeast Asia search

[NeverSure]

Well for me, if it's not in the Indian Ocean, I'd go for the Malaysia 'shoot down clean up story' as most likely.

If it was shot down and/or landed anywhere on Malaysian territory, then there would have to be at least a few who saw it.

Don't forget that there are numerous people that claim to have seen it. From fisherman off the Malay Peninsular to people in the Maldives. Reports of a large aircraft flying over head at very low altitude. Some of these reports were out before it was announced that the aircraft did a 180.

But for what has come of it now is anybody's guess. You cannot keep such a secret as what would be required to make this aircraft, its passengers and crew disappear like this seems to have done.

I don't know. Bin Laden was caught hiding in a house not more than 100 yards from the entrance to the Kakul Military Academy where Pakistan's top military brass train. He was within 60 miles of the country's capital city.

All of the 10 years he was hiding after he was ID'd as the mastermind behind 9/ll, people were hiding him, bringing him messages, food, medicines and whatever else he needed.

10 years before someone dropped a dime on him, and there was a big reward on his head.

Edited April 25, 2014 by NeverSure

[P45Mustang]

Well for me, if it's not in the Indian Ocean, I'd go for the Malaysia 'shoot down clean up story' as most likely.

If it was shot down and/or landed anywhere on Malaysian territory, then there would have to be at least a few who saw it.

Don't forget that there are numerous people that claim to have seen it. From fisherman off the Malay Peninsular to people in the Maldives. Reports of a large aircraft flying over head at very low altitude. Some of these reports were out before it was announced that the aircraft did a 180.

But for what has come of it now is anybody's guess. You cannot keep such a secret as what would be required to make this aircraft, its passengers and crew disappear like this seems to have done.

I don't know. Bin Laden was caught hiding in a house not more than 100 yards from the entrance to the Kakul Military Academy where Pakistan's top military brass train. He was within 60 miles of the country's capital city.

All of the 10 years he was hiding after he was ID'd as the mastermind behind 9/ll, people were hiding him, bringing him messages, food, medicines and whatever else he needed.

10 years before someone dropped a dime on him, and there was a big reward on his head.

Yes.

Please excuse the diversion.

Somebody dropped more than a dime on him.

[canuckamuck]

Problems with the Malaysian shoot down theory:

-No one reported a rocket flight or a crashing (exploding) aircraft. Unless you think that is what the rig worker saw, and if he saw it where he saw it, then it wasn't far off course, wasn't a threat, and it wouldn't have been shot down.

-Nobody has reported any debris or crash site.

- If Malaysia shot it down they would have had to react very quickly to make sure they got it over open water, and then the cleanup would have been in a busy shipping area. It would have been too hard to conceal all that activity.

-There would have been additional radio chatter if planes were scrambled and Malaysia ground crews were assessing the situation. This would have been overheard by Thailand or Singapore military and civilian air control.

-It would be too difficult to keep it all quiet. Many people involved.

- It is unlikely they would have shot it down without being 99% sure it was a terror act, and if they were that sure, they have nothing to hide.

Edited April 25, 2014 by canuckamuck

[coma]

Well for me, if it's not in the Indian Ocean, I'd go for the Malaysia 'shoot down clean up story' as most likely.

If it was shot down and/or landed anywhere on Malaysian territory, then there would have to be at least a few who saw it.

Don't forget that there are numerous people that claim to have seen it. From fisherman off the Malay Peninsular to people in the Maldives. Reports of a large aircraft flying over head at very low altitude. Some of these reports were out before it was announced that the aircraft did a 180.

But for what has come of it now is anybody's guess. You cannot keep such a secret as what would be required to make this aircraft, its passengers and crew disappear like this seems to have done.

I don't know. Bin Laden was caught hiding in a house not more than 100 yards from the entrance to the Kakul Military Academy where Pakistan's top military brass train. He was within 60 miles of the country's capital city.

All of the 10 years he was hiding after he was ID'd as the mastermind behind 9/ll, people were hiding him, bringing him messages, food, medicines and whatever else he needed.

10 years before someone dropped a dime on him, and there was a big reward on his head.

Your right but that was one individual. Not quite on the same scale as this.

[P45Mustang]

Problems with the Malaysian shoot down theory:

-No one reported a rocket flight or a crashing (exploding) aircraft. Unless you think that is what the rig worker saw, and if he saw it where he saw it, then it wasn't far off course, wasn't a threat, and it wouldn't have been shot down.

-Nobody has reported any debris or crash site.

- If Malaysia shot it down they would have had to react very quickly to make sure they got it over open water, and then the cleanup would have been in a busy shipping area. It would have been too hard to conceal all that activity.

-There would have been additional radio chatter if planes were scrambled and Malaysia ground crews were assessing the situation. This would have been overheard by Thailand or Singapore military and civilian air control.

-It would be too difficult to keep it all quiet. Many people involved.

- It is unlikely they would have shot it down without being 99% sure it was a terror act, and if they were that sure, they have nothing to hide.

Yep. Some good points. I'll have a think.

Mind you the PRC would have got mighty angry I reckon, even if it was proven beyond doubt that it was going to hit the KL Towers.

[retell]

I don't believe the shoot down theory, and the malaysians spent four days collecting debris before revealing it turned almost 180 degrees. The problem with that is that not everyone will keep their mouths shut. Someone is always seeking his 15 minutes of fame, so somebody would have leaked it by now, but that presumes more than one person was collecting debris, and there must have been hundreds.

Don't know.

Military action directed by high ups?

'Need to know basis'?

Remote location?

Sounds like somebody somewhere is closing ranks.

Uh uh and if all of a sudden a large group of malaysian military personell die ,, well there is the proof

[P45Mustang]

Any malaysian military man telling his story would need to do it from the safe asylum of a neutral country.

Why bother?

Fame, money and justice?

Nevertheless, the factual credibility of military shooting the plane needs to be priority number 1 before conjecture about how ranks might be closed?

[Carmine6]

Problems with the Malaysian shoot down theory:

-No one reported a rocket flight or a crashing (exploding) aircraft. Unless you think that is what the rig worker saw, and if he saw it where he saw it, then it wasn't far off course, wasn't a threat, and it wouldn't have been shot down.

-Nobody has reported any debris or crash site.

- If Malaysia shot it down they would have had to react very quickly to make sure they got it over open water, and then the cleanup would have been in a busy shipping area. It would have been too hard to conceal all that activity.

-There would have been additional radio chatter if planes were scrambled and Malaysia ground crews were assessing the situation. This would have been overheard by Thailand or Singapore military and civilian air control.

-It would be too difficult to keep it all quiet. Many people involved.

- It is unlikely they would have shot it down without being 99% sure it was a terror act, and if they were that sure, they have nothing to hide.

์Not to mention that satellites were pointed over this area early on, including that web hunt which also covered the Andaman Sea and Bay of Bengal. And there were two search areas right from the start. One on the west as well as the Gulf of Thailand, involving the US and some other countries. If this happened, there's no way other countries didn't know about it as well.

Plus, I just don't think those guys have the ability to pull something like this off. Assemble and manage a flotilla of boats to gather up all the stuff that can't be sunk, then have another operation on land to deal with the debris, and the more unpleasant things floating. All without any one of those people taking pictures on their cell phones or blabbing. No way they have that coordination skill.

Then there's the issue of the Inmarsat ping which occurred every hour for 8 hours, giving a measurable distance from the satellite. The Malaysians wouldn't on the spur of the moment be able to spoof that uplink for the remaining 5 or 6 hours, and traveling so that it reached certain arcs at certain times. Maybe that is theoretically possible, but not on a spur of the moment. Who even knew there was such a thing as the handshake with the satellite at that point? Then it has to send the right id to the satellite and on the right period. It wasn't reporting on the hour, it was I think 11 minutes after the hour, every hour.

[Credo]

Any malaysian military man telling his story would need to do it from the safe asylum of a neutral country.

Why bother?

Fame, money and justice?

Nevertheless, the factual credibility of military shooting the plane needs to be priority number 1 before conjecture about how ranks might be closed?

Anybody who has any information that is first hand would probably be charged with terrorism, so good luck with finding a 'neutral' country that would give you cover. If it were a military person, then it would treason.

I don't think any gov't had much to do with this. There were too many people from too many countries to keep it low key.

If the passengers were being held somewhere, they would probably all be dead now, especially if they were feeding them airline food for this long.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Credo

[P45Mustang]

Problems with the Malaysian shoot down theory:

-No one reported a rocket flight or a crashing (exploding) aircraft. Unless you think that is what the rig worker saw, and if he saw it where he saw it, then it wasn't far off course, wasn't a threat, and it wouldn't have been shot down.

-Nobody has reported any debris or crash site.

- If Malaysia shot it down they would have had to react very quickly to make sure they got it over open water, and then the cleanup would have been in a busy shipping area. It would have been too hard to conceal all that activity.

-There would have been additional radio chatter if planes were scrambled and Malaysia ground crews were assessing the situation. This would have been overheard by Thailand or Singapore military and civilian air control.

-It would be too difficult to keep it all quiet. Many people involved.

- It is unlikely they would have shot it down without being 99% sure it was a terror act, and if they were that sure, they have nothing to hide.

์Not to mention that satellites were pointed over this area early on, including that web hunt which also covered the Andaman Sea and Bay of Bengal. And there were two search areas right from the start. One on the west as well as the Gulf of Thailand, involving the US and some other countries. If this happened, there's no way other countries didn't know about it as well.

Plus, I just don't think those guys have the ability to pull something like this off. Assemble and manage a flotilla of boats to gather up all the stuff that can't be sunk, then have another operation on land to deal with the debris, and the more unpleasant things floating. All without any one of those people taking pictures on their cell phones or blabbing. No way they have that coordination skill.

Then there's the issue of the Inmarsat ping which occurred every hour for 8 hours, giving a measurable distance from the satellite. The Malaysians wouldn't on the spur of the moment be able to spoof that uplink for the remaining 5 or 6 hours, and traveling so that it reached certain arcs at certain times. Maybe that is theoretically possible, but not on a spur of the moment. Who even knew there was such a thing as the handshake with the satellite at that point? Then it has to send the right id to the satellite and on the right period. It wasn't reporting on the hour, it was I think 11 minutes after the hour, every hour.

Yes.

Some very fair points.

Particularly the issue of being able to do all this in a state of emergency rather than as a planned premeditated exercise.

[P45Mustang]

Any malaysian military man telling his story would need to do it from the safe asylum of a neutral country.

Why bother?

Fame, money and justice?

Nevertheless, the factual credibility of military shooting the plane needs to be priority number 1 before conjecture about how ranks might be closed?

Anybody who has any information that is first hand would probably be charged with terrorism, so good luck with finding a 'neutral' country that would give you cover. If it were a military person, then it would treason.

I don't think any gov't had much to do with this. There were too many people from too many countries to keep it low key.

If the passengers were being held somewhere, they would probably all be dead now, especially if they were feeding them airline food for this long.

Fair points.

So do we go back to the theory of pilot suicide as the reason for what appears to be a planned premeditated exercise?

[coma]

I have it on good authority that a drunk passenger tried to break into the cockpit of this flight. So the captain diverted to Bali. But here is what is coming out.....

An Australian Virgin passenger plane has been hijacked on the way to Bali, according to Indonesian media reports.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2014/04/25/17/25/virgin-australia-passneger-jet-hijacked

[davidstipek]

Oh, goodness, I am going to feel really bad for deleting some of the conspiracy posts if this is accurate....

If you were sincere in your comment, you could at least have ended your post with, Sorry 3 times.

I am sincere, so here they are: Sorry, sorry, sorry.

Actually, I don't think there were very many (if any) posts deleted simply for being conspiracy theories, at least not by me. It's hard to call something a conspiracy when nobody seems to have a firm clue on what happened to that plane.

Scott...

My wife just read this and Emailed me link... She firmly says was wrong to do but accepts what seems to be a sincere approach. She is not going to post it again as still doesn't feel secure using Thai-Visa again....

[davidstipek]

The investigative team have also admitted that the earlier calculations derived from information provided by Inmarsat were not entirely reliable, because communication satellites cannot detect crucial details such as a plane's direction, altitude and speed.

I find this statement incredibly ironic.

No doubt somebody on here can come up with a blindingly funny analogy.

The best I can do is: 'about as much use as a chocolate fireguard.'

As I understood it, the pings from the Inmarsat satellite were ongoing, so the aircraft could be tracked by those??

Don't know. Presumably they had good reason to go for the southerly arc, rather than the northerly arc.

It they thought the plane was south ot the Equator... then yes! they would be correct in thinking this.

But what happens if it was if flight was above (North of) Equator? Then as Stated before here by several, they would be exactly 180 degrees off as signal would have mirrored itself. There I said it for her..

[davidstipek]

Which begs the question what was picked up four times pulsing at the appropriate interval and frequency to be a Black Box, and why would they be looking for it where they are?

Ah, I get it. The Malaysians planted it there.

And then moved it.

Gosh I'm getting good at this making s*** up stuff.

Chicog... Not getting "Good at"... you have always been "Good"... But since when did you switch sides. Normally you can be found Kicking things down, Now you are working Defencively??? Her I'll help you... remember how deep the silt is here... maybe a B.B. was intentionaly knocked overboard.... If found, won't be any plane wreckage anyway near, probably hoping not found because Equiptment I.D doessn't match up with Aircraft.... Why did it take so long for Bluefin21 to get deployed? Waiting for signal to start dropping as B.B. sank deeper? Or wait until there was a Plausable signal in place to afirm search in Indian Ocean....? Again don't believe just thinking about alternatives and why... Indonesenia ever let anyone fly into their Airspace or (Hiding??) search in their Territorial waters??

[P45Mustang]

I'm open to suggestion on this.

Inmarsat communications satellite data plus extrapolations, do not fill me with confidence.

The Aussie search team appear to be not entirely confident either now.

So. in computer technology... potentially GIGO.

Garbage in, garbage out.

[davidstipek]

I don't believe the shoot down theory, and the malaysians spent four days collecting debris before revealing it turned almost 180 degrees. The problem with that is that not everyone will keep their mouths shut. Someone is always seeking his 15 minutes of fame, so somebody would have leaked it by now, but that presumes more than one person was collecting debris, and there must have been hundreds.

Remember there was a Life Raft found in Straits... Reported to Authorities... They responded (fisherman were smart enough to take pictures of "Board Here" lettering on Aircraft style Life Raft.

Then as they transfered Raft to Authorities... The Authorities dropped it and it sank.... Mistake? or a Planned exercise... to finish clean-up?? So called earthquake that so convienenty occurred days after Aircraft disappeared, with no wave action also so far away from any fault areas...

[P45Mustang]

I do find the idea of false black boxes in the Ocean a bit tricky though.

An attempt at false closure?

An attempt to divert attention from searching elsewhere?

[boomerangutang]

So do we go back to the theory of pilot suicide as the reason for what appears to be a planned premeditated exercise?

For me, I never strayed, from day 1, from 'pilot suicide' and mass murder. If I were an attorney for passengers, I think it would be a slam dunk. ...Though I presume attorneys will, as much as possible, try to implicate those with deepest pockets, like Boeing - but they'll be stretching too far in that regard.

It they thought the plane was south of the Equator... then yes! they would be correct in thinking this.

But what happens if it was if flight was above (North of) Equator? Then as Stated before here by several, they would be exactly 180 degrees off as signal would have mirrored itself. There I said it for her..

Very unlikely it would have flown N of the equator anywhere near that arc. There are several countries there on war footings (of facsimile thereof), with radar on high alert.

[P45Mustang]

Asia Pacific, especially South China Sea also being monitored closely?

I cannot believe the flight path of MH370 is not on somebody's radar or satellite data bank somewhere.

NASA know the plate number on my Toyota in Thailand.

[Chicog]

I don't believe the shoot down theory, and the malaysians spent four days collecting debris before revealing it turned almost 180 degrees. The problem with that is that not everyone will keep their mouths shut. Someone is always seeking his 15 minutes of fame, so somebody would have leaked it by now, but that presumes more than one person was collecting debris, and there must have been hundreds.

Remember there was a Life Raft found in Straits... Reported to Authorities... They responded (fisherman were smart enough to take pictures of "Board Here" lettering on Aircraft style Life Raft.

Then as they transfered Raft to Authorities... The Authorities dropped it and it sank.... Mistake? or a Planned exercise... to finish clean-up?? So called earthquake that so convienenty occurred days after Aircraft disappeared, with no wave action also so far away from any fault areas...

It was not a 777 Door slide, it was a raft from a ship, probably washed overboard in a storm.

So no mystery there even if you want to try and invent one.

[draftvader]

Asia Pacific, especially South China Sea also being monitored closely?

I cannot believe the flight path of MH370 is not on somebody's radar or satellite data bank somewhere.

NASA know the plate number on my Toyota in Thailand.

They really don't. Seriously, don't. I have been through this before further back (it is a HUGE thread so totally excuse people not going back).

Worked in raster based imagery for mapping (i.e. satellite, aerial).

Worked with DGIA (UK military mapping) as a customer and had access to some of their data (not highly classified (only 10 years OFA) but to demonstrate their abilities)

Still good friends with a key leader on the Mars projects at JPL

AT BEST they are looking at 15cm resolution. This is simply down to atmospheric conditions and available technology, it will be easier to get this resolution of the moon as there is no atmosphere to get in the way. If you are seeing colour images at higher resolution then this is aerial. If you are seeing colour images at this resolution (i.e. 15cm) then it is "combined" data using satellite and aerial to "colour" the images (or interpretation of remote sensing data) and this is not real time or done for military purposes. This technique was formulated by my friend at JPL on a project we worked on in 2001. Even the O&G industry do not require data at this level and they have HUGE money invested in the satellites.

15cm pixel size will NOT provide number plate information, in fact it can barely show a dinner plate. Also the ability to move these satellites is limited by:

Fuel considerations - they only have so much

Likelihood of hitting debris in orbit

Sorry if this comes across as a little "curt" but these fanciful tales of satellites watching you take a dump are SO over the mark and may never happen. This is why they send up so many drones. Yes, once in a while they attack somebody with them but mostly they fly them around over the battle field to get real-time imagery. Why would they do that if they could just "Moonraker" a satellite into position?

[P45Mustang]

I bow to your superior knowledge draftvader.

I remain a little sceptical though, cos NASA pics of my home in Thailand available on Google Earth clearly show whether the missus has washed the Toyota or not.

The plate number was an exaggeration merely to make the point.

[draftvader]

I bow to your superior knowledge draftvader.

I remain a little sceptical though, cos NASA pics of my home in Thailand available on Google Earth clearly show whether the missus has washed the Toyota or not.

The plate number was an exaggeration merely to make the point.

Out of curiosity where are you viewing NASA data?

Sent from my HTC Desire using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[retell]

I bow to your superior knowledge draftvader.

I remain a little sceptical though, cos NASA pics of my home in Thailand available on Google Earth clearly show whether the missus has washed the Toyota or not.

The plate number was an exaggeration merely to make the point.

Haha the google earth from where i live still shows the situation over 10 years ago , not even tarmac on the roads

[Tywais]

I bow to your superior knowledge draftvader.

I remain a little sceptical though, cos NASA pics of my home in Thailand available on Google Earth clearly show whether the missus has washed the Toyota or not.

The plate number was an exaggeration merely to make the point.

Google Earth images are composites of Satellite and aerial. The current satellite technology is limited simply by physics (optics - the equations are available), the physical limitations of the device and atmosphere. A license plate can be identified on a vehicle but the lettering can not.

[retell]

I bow to your superior knowledge draftvader.

I remain a little sceptical though, cos NASA pics of my home in Thailand available on Google Earth clearly show whether the missus has washed the Toyota or not.

The plate number was an exaggeration merely to make the point.

Google Earth images are composites of Satellite and aerial. The current satellite technology is limited simply by physics (optics - the equations are available), the physical limitations of the device and atmosphere. A license plate can be identified on a vehicle but the lettering can not.

Maybe he is mistaken with streetview

[wprime]

I have it on good authority that a drunk passenger tried to break into the cockpit of this flight. So the captain diverted to Bali. But here is what is coming out.....

An Australian Virgin passenger plane has been hijacked on the way to Bali, according to Indonesian media reports.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2014/04/25/17/25/virgin-australia-passneger-jet-hijacked

Australian man got drunk doesn't hook in readers.

[P45Mustang]

There appears to be some doubt then that any surveillance satellite or any aerial has picked up MH370.

So we are left with the dubious extrapolation from the inmarsat communications satellite.

Cos it doesn't seem to be appearing on anybody's radar either.

40,000 feet, no cloud.

[P45Mustang]

BTW. A Boeing 777 is slightly bigger than a licence plate. Especially at 40,000 feet.