Vegetarians live... less long

[Kitsune]

Right the picture of health ...

01 - The inuit were confirmed to have cancer, while eating a purely native paleo style diet.

02 - The inuit bodies were riddled with carcinoma, while eating wholly natural traditional wild foods.

03 - The inuit while on their paleo primal diet were found to have extensive bone joint lesions.

04 - The inuit gave birth to children with birth defects while eating paleolithic type diet.

05 - The inuit were found to have given birth to a child with downs syndrome (sloped forehead, demented) while on paleo diet

06 - Inuit bodies were found stricken with perthes disease, a wastage & disintegration of the leg bone (hip), and may have gone limp.

07 - A female inuit, on the inuit traditional primal solution diet, was possibly hit with breast cancer.

08 - The inuit cancer in the woman had metasticized and spread throughout her body in multiple lesions while eating paleo.

09 - All of the inuit person's teeth had fallen out, while eating paleo, and appeared to be infected with gum disease.

10 - While on the meat based paleo diet, they got infected with pinworms - small parasites living in their abdomen, often sourced from ingesting meat.

11 - All of the paleo inuit meat-eaters were infested with head lice - nits. As well as egg-larvae.

Medical evidence now confirms that the inuit got cancer while on a pre-contact primal paleo diet.

Pure reactionary balderdash. Since the traditional papaleodiet way hasn't existed for decades, perhaps you could provide a

link to the documentation of your claims for the inuit , say around, 1906.

http://www.archive.org/stream/mylifewitheskim00andegoog#page/n6/mode/2up

the link is already provided in my previous post.

I just opened it for you as people tend to criticize without even reading the content

[BugJackBaron]

Right the picture of health ...

01 - The inuit were confirmed to have cancer, while eating a purely native paleo style diet.

02 - The inuit bodies were riddled with carcinoma, while eating wholly natural traditional wild foods.

03 - The inuit while on their paleo primal diet were found to have extensive bone joint lesions.

04 - The inuit gave birth to children with birth defects while eating paleolithic type diet.

05 - The inuit were found to have given birth to a child with downs syndrome (sloped forehead, demented) while on paleo diet

06 - Inuit bodies were found stricken with perthes disease, a wastage & disintegration of the leg bone (hip), and may have gone limp.

07 - A female inuit, on the inuit traditional primal solution diet, was possibly hit with breast cancer.

08 - The inuit cancer in the woman had metasticized and spread throughout her body in multiple lesions while eating paleo.

09 - All of the inuit person's teeth had fallen out, while eating paleo, and appeared to be infected with gum disease.

10 - While on the meat based paleo diet, they got infected with pinworms - small parasites living in their abdomen, often sourced from ingesting meat.

11 - All of the paleo inuit meat-eaters were infested with head lice - nits. As well as egg-larvae.

Medical evidence now confirms that the inuit got cancer while on a pre-contact primal paleo diet.

Pure reactionary balderdash. Since the traditional papaleodiet way hasn't existed for decades, perhaps you could provide a

link to the documentation of your claims for the inuit , say around, 1906.

http://www.archive.org/stream/mylifewitheskim00andegoog#page/n6/mode/2up

the link is already provided in my previous post.

I just opened it for you as people tend to criticize without even reading the content

I read it. It is based on the analysis of a few preserved skeletons which hardly proves anything. Again, nobody said that their health was perfect. Cancer has many causes and they were living in some of the harshest conditions on the planet. It is not just about diet.

There is not a single group, including vegetarians that are immune to cancer.

Edited May 29, 2014 by BugJackBaron

[rhythmworx]

Who funds all these so called scientists?

They always miss out on the major factors of what it is they are studying.

1st its bad for you 10 years later is good for you another 10 years they are unsure.

Who is training and funding these monkeys?

[Kitsune]

Right the picture of health ...

01 - The inuit were confirmed to have cancer, while eating a purely native paleo style diet.

02 - The inuit bodies were riddled with carcinoma, while eating wholly natural traditional wild foods.

03 - The inuit while on their paleo primal diet were found to have extensive bone joint lesions.

04 - The inuit gave birth to children with birth defects while eating paleolithic type diet.

05 - The inuit were found to have given birth to a child with downs syndrome (sloped forehead, demented) while on paleo diet

06 - Inuit bodies were found stricken with perthes disease, a wastage & disintegration of the leg bone (hip), and may have gone limp.

07 - A female inuit, on the inuit traditional primal solution diet, was possibly hit with breast cancer.

08 - The inuit cancer in the woman had metasticized and spread throughout her body in multiple lesions while eating paleo.

09 - All of the inuit person's teeth had fallen out, while eating paleo, and appeared to be infected with gum disease.

10 - While on the meat based paleo diet, they got infected with pinworms - small parasites living in their abdomen, often sourced from ingesting meat.

11 - All of the paleo inuit meat-eaters were infested with head lice - nits. As well as egg-larvae.

Medical evidence now confirms that the inuit got cancer while on a pre-contact primal paleo diet.

Pure reactionary balderdash. Since the traditional papaleodiet way hasn't existed for decades, perhaps you could provide a

link to the documentation of your claims for the inuit , say around, 1906.

http://www.archive.org/stream/mylifewitheskim00andegoog#page/n6/mode/2up

the link is already provided in my previous post.

I just opened it for you as people tend to criticize without even reading the content

I read it. It is based on the analysis of a few preserved skeletons which hardly proves anything. Again, nobody said that their health was perfect. Cancer has many causes and they were living in some of the harshest conditions on the planet. It is not just about diet.

There is not a single group, including vegetarians that are immune to cancer.

Yes it shows the Inuits were far from "healthy" as you stated previously.

Cancer is spreading all over the world now but there are still a lot of disparities and there have been famous groups amazingly spared by cancer, for example the late 50's Japan and prostate cancer.

[BugJackBaron]

Repying to post 65

What a leap of logic. It shows that a few innuit who may have faced starvation or disease - we will never know - had health problems. The infestation of worms mentioned suggests that they ate raw fish out of season. Sushi is not prepared at certain times of the year because of this. Google it and learn something.

I bet you didn't read Steffensen's journal. We don't even need the innuit as some native american tribes who were mostly hunter gatherers(some cultivated vegetables). were also noted to be healthy and very "hard to kill"

The point is not to idealize their lives - they often had starvation conditions and warfare - but to learn from the best part of their lifestyle.

[Kitsune]

of course we will know, what a silly thing to say;

Bodies from centuries are studied everyday, it's called paleontology and guess what that is the science that precisely tells us what our ancestors are eating, like the fact they were not hunter-gatherers which is another myth, but gatherers

[BugJackBaron]

of course we will know, what a silly thing to say;

Bodies from centuries are studied everyday, it's called paleontology and guess what that is the science that precisely tells us what our ancestors are eating, like the fact they were not hunter-gatherers which is another myth, but gatherers

You mean they only ate seaweed? In fact, some did eat a certain amount of that but there wasn't a lot of choice in the arctic. So please enlighten me.

Or do you mean that none of our ancestors were hunter gatherers.That of course is a silly proposition.

[Kitsune]

Hunter-gatherer is one of the biggest myths promoted by western scholars.

In the beginning man would have been a vegetarian. In the Agganna Sutta man first feasted on the 'savoury earth' and later on rice. There is no mention of the consumption of animal flesh'

Neanderthals

"Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food"; and it was so." Genesis 1:30

"Starchivores" is how Dr. Nathaniel Dominy, called our ancestors. "Hunter-gatherers, the majority of their calories come from plant foods...meat is just too unpredictable." Dr. Dominy had been studying the bones, teeth and genetics of primates for his entire career as a biological anthropologist.

http://www.sundayobserver.lk/2013/10/13/spe04.asp

Edited June 1, 2014 by Kitsune

[krisb]

I'll never understand how you can say no to this...

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

If someone proclaimed themself a Meat-tarian but then used loopholes to eat broccoli and apples and called themselves

Cruciferous Fruit Meat-tarians then people would laugh their asses off.

Other meat-tarians would take non food supplements that mimic the bio chemistry of vegetables in the body.

Everybody would call these phonies out but vegetarians have been running this same misleading semantics game for decades.

It's just not sexy, morally superior and PC for someone to say Omnivore who mostly eats vegetables. fruits and nuts.

[Kitsune]

I'll never understand how you can say no to this...

You mean decomposing carcasses of dead beings?

One day we will look back upon this era of daily industrial Shoah of our own kingdom in disgusts.

Just glad I am not part of it

[Kitsune]

If someone proclaimed themself a Meat-tarian but then used loopholes to eat broccoli and apples and called themselves

Cruciferous Fruit Meat-tarians then people would laugh their asses off.

Other meat-tarians would take non food supplements that mimic the bio chemistry of vegetables in the body.

Everybody would call these phonies out but vegetarians have been running this same misleading semantics game for decades.

It's just not sexy, morally superior and PC for someone to say Omnivore who mostly eats vegetables. fruits and nuts.

Since when are apples cruciferous?

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

cruciferous = broccoli etc

fruit = apples

When someone claims they are

Lacto Ovo vegetarians are not implying Lacto is Ovo

understand?

[Kitsune]

cruciferous = broccoli etc

fruit = apples

When someone claims they are

Lacto Ovo vegetarians are not implying Lacto is Ovo

understand?

...............and the relation to the topic is ?

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

^

We don't know if vegetarians live less long because most of them really aren't vegetarians

As pointless as studying my hypothetical pretend meat-tarian.

[rhythmworx]

No food you buy from a supermarket is 100 percent safe, I wont go into the details why, you should know already.

If you are so bothered about it, grow your own veg on non poisoned soil, don't use pesticides, and the same goes for your cattle don't feed them , and don't live near industrial chemical plants or near somewhere where car exhaust fumes can get into the rain.

On that note do not use toothpaste, deodorant, make up and its removers, soap, shampoo the list is almost endless.

Just because the FDA or a similar body has deemed something safe it literally means it is legal to sell to the masses, not it is safe to use.

Vegetarians unless they live at the top of a mountain in places like Jamaica are just annoying people.

Think they are doing good, no smoking no drinking, eat pesticide ridden food, go running 10 miles every day then die of a heart attack in their 30's.

Might aswell have drank and took drugs everyday and enjoyed it while they were here.

If your going to choose to be a vegetarian or vegan do it 'Ital'.

Edited June 4, 2014 by rhythmworx

[piersbeckett]

I am confused about word "protein", that means sually meat,

but I consume rice protein each day and a shake, so will that affect my liver in any way?

It is raw rice protein, I guess nobody made this study?

I remember being taught that protein is made up of eight (essential) amino acids which are present, for example, when beans and rice are eaten together in the proportion of two thirds rice and one third beans per mouthful; the point being that 'protein wise' meat and fish are not necessary provided one can get sufficient protein from other sources.

The oldest person I've met to date was 102 and according to his daughter (a customer of mine) had always been vegetarian and had only ever drank water! He was quite tall and thin and able to walk around, inside his house and able to talk - he was clad in a suit and looked to me like a dead person walking but I was full of admiration for him.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

There is an old joke

"How do you get someone to tell you they are vegetarian or vegan?"

punch line

"Do nothing and wait 10 minutes and they will announce it"

Being a former longterm vegetarian I have to laugh at myself and others for that tendency.

The protein argument is somewhat accurate but it's side stepping the important deficiencies that a vegetarian diet of food only can't supply or address.

The important missing nutrients from animal foods are essential fatty acids like DHA/CLA, vitamin D, B-12

http://www.poliquingroup.com/ArticlesMultimedia/Articles/Article/844/Vegetarians_Beware_Nutrient_Deficiencies.aspx

[h90]

^

We don't know if vegetarians live less long because most of them really aren't vegetarians

As pointless as studying my hypothetical pretend meat-tarian.

Meattarian? Someone called me?

[Kitsune]

^

We don't know if vegetarians live less long because most of them really aren't vegetarians

As pointless as studying my hypothetical pretend meat-tarian.

Meattarian? Someone called me?

Serious studies are based on controlled groups.

Vegetarians eat eggs and dairy which is liquid meat, so there is little point / no point in trying to prove anything with them.

Vegans who survive on diet coke and french fries are as unhealthy as anyone on SAD.

The only difference is based on groups with vegan diet with positive omega 3 / omega 6 ratio and proper B12 supplement.

[Kitsune]

There is an old joke

"How do you get someone to tell you they are vegetarian or vegan?"

punch line

"Do nothing and wait 10 minutes and they will announce it"

Being a former longterm vegetarian I have to laugh at myself and others for that tendency.

The protein argument is somewhat accurate but it's side stepping the important deficiencies that a vegetarian diet of food only can't supply or address.

The important missing nutrients from animal foods are essential fatty acids like DHA/CLA, vitamin D, B-12

http://www.poliquingroup.com/ArticlesMultimedia/Articles/Article/844/Vegetarians_Beware_Nutrient_Deficiencies.aspx

1/ You get your fatty acids from fish that contain PCB, dioxins, and mercury, we get it safely from yeast/algae.

2/ Vitamin D could be a supplement to take as a vegetarian yes, no big deal a pill every now and then, that is if you don't get 15 minutes at least of sun exposure,which here (in Thailand) is difficult not to get, so no need thanks.

3/ Even meat eaters are at risk of B12 deficiency, I also know some vegans who don't take supplement and have been tested being totally fine on B12 levels. So don't think you're not at risk.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

There is an old joke

"How do you get someone to tell you they are vegetarian or vegan?"

punch line

"Do nothing and wait 10 minutes and they will announce it"

Being a former longterm vegetarian I have to laugh at myself and others for that tendency.

The protein argument is somewhat accurate but it's side stepping the important deficiencies that a vegetarian diet of food only can't supply or address.

The important missing nutrients from animal foods are essential fatty acids like DHA/CLA, vitamin D, B-12

http://www.poliquingroup.com/ArticlesMultimedia/Articles/Article/844/Vegetarians_Beware_Nutrient_Deficiencies.aspx

1/ You get your fatty acids from fish that contain PCB, dioxins, and mercury, we get it safely from yeast/algae.

2/ Vitamin D could be a supplement to take as a vegetarian yes, no big deal a pill every now and then, that is if you don't get 15 minutes at least of sun exposure,which here (in Thailand) is difficult not to get, so no need thanks.

3/ Even meat eaters are at risk of B12 deficiency, I also know some vegans who don't take supplement and have been tested being totally fine on B12 levels. So don't think you're not at risk.

DHA is rich in grass fed beef, goat etc and butter as well as cold water fish.

Yeast is not a source of B-12 but is often fortified with B-12

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutritional_yeast

"Because nutritional yeast is often used by vegans, who need to supplement their diets with vitamin B₁₂, there has been confusion about the source of the B₁₂ in nutritional yeast. Yeast cannot produce B₁₂, which is only naturally produced by bacteria. Some brands of nutritional yeast, though not all, are fortified with vitamin B₁₂. When fortified, the vitamin B₁₂ is produced separately (commonlycyanocobalamin) and then added to the yeast.^[6][7]"

^{Algae a source of B-12?}

^{http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17959839}

The usual dietary sources of vitamin B(12) are animal foods, meat, milk, egg, fish, and shellfish. As the intrinsic factor-mediated intestinal absorption system is estimated to be saturated at about 1.5-2.0 microg per meal under physiologic conditions, vitamin B(12) bioavailability significantly decreases with increasing intake of vitamin B(12) per meal. The bioavailability of vitamin B(12) in healthy humans from fish meat, sheep meat, and chicken meat averaged 42%, 56%-89%, and 61%-66%, respectively. Vitamin B(12) in eggs seems to be poorly absorbed (< 9%) relative to other animal food products. In the Dietary Reference Intakes in the United States and Japan, it is assumed that 50% of dietary vitamin B(12) is absorbed by healthy adults with normal gastro-intestinal function. Some plant foods, dried green and purple lavers (nori) contain substantial amounts of vitamin B(12), although other edible algae contained none or only traces of vitamin B(12). Most of the edible blue-green algae (cyanobacteria) used for human supplements predominantly contain pseudovitamin B(12), which is inactive in humans. The edible cyanobacteria are not suitable for use as vitamin B(12) sources, especially in vegans. Fortified breakfast cereals are a particularly valuable source of vitamin B(12) for vegans and elderly people. Production of some vitamin B(12)-enriched vegetables is also being devised.

^{Power to you if your happy with the results but it's not a real food diet as it relies on pills,capsules, extracts, tinctures etc.}

^{Do it with real whole foods and get your Omega 3/6 ratios, D levels checked etc and get back to us.}

^{Hopefully it works for you and can be validated with blood testing.}

[piersbeckett]

Going back about twenty years, I read a book entitled Food for a Future by Jon (somebody) who I think claimed among other things that the human digestive system in having to work much harder (than otherwise it might) when breaking down red meat, produced particular toxins (I think he mentioned 2 no.) the residue from which had, in certain cases, been proved to have been the cause of both mental illness (I think he referred to depression) and arthritis.

These 'conditions' may not, of course, affect lifespan but I wondered if any of the contributors to this topic had heard of this and whether or not they gave it any credence.

[robertthebruce]

No food you buy from a supermarket is 100 percent safe, I wont go into the details why, you should know already.

If you are so bothered about it, grow your own veg on non poisoned soil, don't use pesticides, and the same goes for your cattle don't feed them , and don't live near industrial chemical plants or near somewhere where car exhaust fumes can get into the rain.

On that note do not use toothpaste, deodorant, make up and its removers, soap, shampoo the list is almost endless.

Just because the FDA or a similar body has deemed something safe it literally means it is legal to sell to the masses, not it is safe to use.

Vegetarians unless they live at the top of a mountain in places like Jamaica are just annoying people.

Think they are doing good, no smoking no drinking, eat pesticide ridden food, go running 10 miles every day then die of a heart attack in their 30's.

Might aswell have drank and took drugs everyday and enjoyed it while they were here.

If your going to choose to be a vegetarian or vegan do it 'Ital'.

[robertthebruce]

I am Vegetarian for the simple reason, I feel I don't have the right to take a life just to eat it.

I do eat eggs but I don't feel that's a life yet.

I drink Alchol and enjoy it,

58 years old and in good health.. I think..

So let's see how long I live, shall keeps yous posted...

Life is all about choices and this is my choice.. I don't preach about it, I just get on with it...

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

A lot of vegetarians think there is no death to their food.

Might want to read this.

http://www.care2.com/causes/do-vegetarians-kill-more-animals-than-meat-eaters.html

[wolf5370]

All these types of human studies are flawed - unlike rats etc which are kept in a very controlled environment, we are not. There are too many variables. Too many types of cancer too - it should be limited to colon cancer or breast cancer - skin cancer, mouth and lung cancers etc have many causes such as smoking and environmental reasons.

[h90]

^

We don't know if vegetarians live less long because most of them really aren't vegetarians

As pointless as studying my hypothetical pretend meat-tarian.

Meattarian? Someone called me?

Serious studies are based on controlled groups.

Vegetarians eat eggs and dairy which is liquid meat, so there is little point / no point in trying to prove anything with them.

Vegans who survive on diet coke and french fries are as unhealthy as anyone on SAD.

The only difference is based on groups with vegan diet with positive omega 3 / omega 6 ratio and proper B12 supplement.

We may disagree on the meat....but for sure you are complete right: Diet (or not diet) coke, processed food, french fries (which often enough aren't even really french fried, more some glued together potato puree) junk pizza from pizza company or deep frozen etc etc is complete junk.

Some get more problems some get less but surely it not healthy.

[wolf5370]

I am Vegetarian for the simple reason, I feel I don't have the right to take a life just to eat it.

I do eat eggs but I don't feel that's a life yet.

I drink Alchol and enjoy it,

58 years old and in good health.. I think..

So let's see how long I live, shall keeps yous posted...

Life is all about choices and this is my choice.. I don't preach about it, I just get on with it...

There are many types of "vegetarian" - from the very extreme (Jainism - where can only east fruit and veg that grows above ground level and only when it has dropped naturally!) to those that just abstain from red meat, but eat white. I would suggest that both extremes need care to manage the correct intake of nutrients, vitamins, etc.

I am a pescatarian - i.e. I eat fish and sea food, but not mammals or birds. I have been so by choice when I was 20, now just over half my life. So I get a good source of protein with little fat - I drink fat free cow's milk or soy milk (prefer cow's) - have coffee/tea black and without sugar - but still have to be careful with respect to fat/sugar in take as I tend to eat a lot of baked items (bread mostly). It was worse in the UK as a lot of veggie food is processed and comes loaded with sugar and fat!

[h90]

I am Vegetarian for the simple reason, I feel I don't have the right to take a life just to eat it.

I do eat eggs but I don't feel that's a life yet.

I drink Alchol and enjoy it,

58 years old and in good health.. I think..

So let's see how long I live, shall keeps yous posted...

Life is all about choices and this is my choice.. I don't preach about it, I just get on with it...

There are many types of "vegetarian" - from the very extreme (Jainism - where can only east fruit and veg that grows above ground level and only when it has dropped naturally!) to those that just abstain from red meat, but eat white. I would suggest that both extremes need care to manage the correct intake of nutrients, vitamins, etc.

I am a pescatarian - i.e. I eat fish and sea food, but not mammals or birds. I have been so by choice when I was 20, now just over half my life. So I get a good source of protein with little fat - I drink fat free cow's milk or soy milk (prefer cow's) - have coffee/tea black and without sugar - but still have to be careful with respect to fat/sugar in take as I tend to eat a lot of baked items (bread mostly). It was worse in the UK as a lot of veggie food is processed and comes loaded with sugar and fat!

Do you eat eggs? What is the reason of your diet? Moral...not killing these animals? If you look how milk is produced...it is very ugly.

I eat almost only meat, but I am very disturbed by the way meat is produced. And there are no organic options available in Thailand. I'll open a new thread on this one.