Filing US Back Taxes from Thailand

[Dannyboy6]

I think they can only go back 10 years to recover anything Statute of limitations

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Scarpolo]

They have 10 years to collect, AS OF, the date of ASSESSMENT.

figure that out.

you can be audited for 2012, they can assess in 2014, and they have until 2024 to dog your ass

[JLCrab]

From the link in Post #30:

The ten-year statute of limitations on collections can be suspended in the following situations:

• For periods when the taxpayer resides outside the United States for at least six months.

[Scarpolo]

well then,

they have the indefinite long arm of the law on this group

still, I say he keeps his head down,

and his balls in his pockets

[tiffanystoyz]

You do know that when you return you will have to signup for Obummer care there in your screwed it is over priced rents in the states a rat infested house is going to cost 1000 bucks a month and depending in which state your go state taxes and if you think your going to work think again they get wetbacks to work cheaper and at even 55 damn near impossible to get job better off here. Just collect your SS and die gracefully here. The States have changed.

[slipperylobster]

Actually, there are online filing companies that you can use...which are not complex...especially for low income earners. I use ESmart Tax

I think there are limitations on how far they will go back....perhaps six or seven years limit.

The first thing I would do is go to their website (I will not research it for you) and find the form that is a listing of your expenses and what you have left over to pay taxes long overdue. If you send this form first, they will not garnish your retirement pay (if you have one).

If you fail to file this particular form, and you do not settle up, after so many notices, they may just seize assets or bank accounts and garnish a fairly large size of your retirement pay.

I would send a cover letter explaining that you want to settle up, but can only afford a certain amount per month... That could actually be pretty low, after listing all your expenses.

You may actually have missed out on quite a few refunds....which may throw a monkey wrench into the whole issue, if you file claims for back tax refunds due. Try that as well...it will bide you time.

Yes....IRS is above the law.... but you know what....you could tax your case to court, and if they do not send a representative.....you could wallk away. You are supposed to file ....income or not.

So call them...

Do a form of indebtedness/waiver for consideration of payment (i do not remember what it is called)

Tell them what you can afford to pay

Fill out some EZ quick online forms and see if you may have refunds due to you.....and offer them as payment of past taxes due....

Let them figure out the rest...

[slipperylobster]

Here is better info....

http://blog.taxact.com/owe-money-to-the-irs-steps-to-pay-off-your-tax-bill/

[ChiangraiTony]

If you didn't make over the amount specified by the IRS then you DO NOT have to file income tax return documents. However, there is no statue of limitation meaning that you will always be subject to an IRS audit.

If you are certain that you didn't make over the specified limits then I would not be to concerned about filing all those IRS forms. It will be expensive and raise a flag. I think you are ok so don't worry.

If you need someone for US Tax advise, PM me and I can put you in touch with someone in Chiang Mai.

Good luck!

[Dannyboy6]

Actually, there are online filing companies that you can use...which are not complex...especially for low income earners. I use ESmart Tax

I think there are limitations on how far they will go back....perhaps six or seven years limit.

The first thing I would do is go to their website (I will not research it for you) and find the form that is a listing of your expenses and what you have left over to pay taxes long overdue. If you send this form first, they will not garnish your retirement pay (if you have one).

If you fail to file this particular form, and you do not settle up, after so many notices, they may just seize assets or bank accounts and garnish a fairly large size of your retirement pay.

I would send a cover letter explaining that you want to settle up, but can only afford a certain amount per month... That could actually be pretty low, after listing all your expenses.

You may actually have missed out on quite a few refunds....which may throw a monkey wrench into the whole issue, if you file claims for back tax refunds due. Try that as well...it will bide you time.

Yes....IRS is above the law.... but you know what....you could tax your case to court, and if they do not send a representative.....you could wallk away. You are supposed to file ....income or not.

So call them...

Do a form of indebtedness/waiver for consideration of payment (i do not remember what it is called)

Tell them what you can afford to pay

Fill out some EZ quick online forms and see if you may have refunds due to you.....and offer them as payment of past taxes due....

Let them figure out the rest...

I think you can only go back 3 years for refunds, I could be wrong, though. You can negotiate a repayment for $100.00 a month as long as you pay something .

[Dannyboy6]

They have 10 years to collect, AS OF, the date of ASSESSMENT.

figure that out.

you can be audited for 2012, they can assess in 2014, and they have until 2024 to dog your ass

that hurts, thanks for that tidbit, didn't know that...

[ChiangraiTony]

Dude, you do realize this aint good? Regardlessof income or residence we're required by law to file an annual tax return. The biggest problem I 'think' you will encounter are the fines & penalties associated with failure to file, for that reason alone I would contact a tax attorney (NOT a CPA, an Attorney) to figure out were you stand legally

This is incorrect information.

[Dannyboy6]

If you didn't make over the amount specified by the IRS then you DO NOT have to file income tax return documents. However, there is no statue of limitation meaning that you will always be subject to an IRS audit.

If you are certain that you didn't make over the specified limits then I would not be to concerned about filing all those IRS forms. It will be expensive and raise a flag. I think you are ok so don't worry.

If you need someone for US Tax advise, PM me and I can put you in touch with someone in Chiang Mai.

Good luck!

there is statute of limitations on Federal , but not on my state of California, come after u forever and they are very aggressive in recovery...

[ChiangraiTony]

The statue of limitations for not filing a income tax return is 3 years. Thus 27 odd of your 30 odd as mentioned are of no legal concern to you nor the IRS.

If no tax was/is owed for the 3 years prior to your return then you are home free so to speak.

This is my real life experience, doing excatly what the OP is proposing to do.

If I am understanding correctly you are incorrect. If you file there is a 3 year statue where you can be audited. If you do not file for a particular year then there is no statue of limitation therefore you are subject to an IRS at any time.

[wym]

All this is fine and good for legal theoretical considerations.

In practice just do your best to correct the situation, get back onto the straight and narrow, if you don't have any assets to seize or US wages to garnish they can't get blood from a stone and actually getting penalized for stuff this minor when you've been under this limits the whole time you've been away are IMO close enough to nil.

Big Brother does enough fear mongering without us all helping him when it isn't warranted.

[Scarpolo]

do not rock the boat, is the best advice here,

you are off the radar,

stay off

[slipperylobster]

I bet the problem you are having is renewing a passport that just expired at the Embassy.

The niece of my gal has a husband....born in Greece, has a British Passport, and after that, became a US Citizen, and had been denied a US Passport (Filed no tax return/and had foreign income).

He was not allowed to renew his US Passport.

Fortunately for him, he somehow reverted to British Citizenship.

Basically, he lost his US Passport but beat the tax system there.

[slipperylobster]

They generally don't bother going after A peanuts B people that are ignorant/lazy without bad intent.

While this may be accurate - I have no way of knowing - but if the OP is facing a significant event in the future, which may be prompting his return to the U.S., and if this future event encompasses income/estate issues, then past lack of filing might incur additional scrutiny resulting in a potentially bigger tax bite?

Yes if you anticipate being a "big fish" upon return, better to start getting legit in advance. But otherwise I'd say just start the process there in person.

Why not just change your home address to Thailand on your passport?

State taxes are based on where you're actually living or working, not on any forms much less passport??

Although owning property or a business could be a factor for some states, how much time spent on "visits" home.

In my case none, and no more than a month or two in any year, so pretty straightforward.

That varies from state to state....

http://americansabroad.org/issues/taxation/us-taxes-while-living-abroad-faq/

When I retired, i opened a bank account, acquired a drivers license, stayed a year, and registered to vote in Nevada.

No taxes. No headaches.

I have not changed states since 1995.

[Kf6vci]

Start by checking the statue of limitations - then forget those xx years.

For the other years, buy the Turbotax software CDs. Ebay is your friend. Just follow the instructions, print, sign and file together with estimated payments. There will be stiff penalties (my wife had a similar issue and it started with a fine for a few hundred Dollars).

It's manageable and your Thai income will likely be excempt.

I like the TT Home & Business software but a simpler software may work for you.

Just be methodical and start with the earliest year and move forward.

You can call the IRS with the Skype flatrate, if you have broadband and a computer.

Good luck!

Chris

[Scarpolo]

This will be my last quote:

Anyone who takes tax advice from this message thread, deserves what befalls them.

Added, Anyone who doesnt file for 30 years and thinks they arent going to be called in, doesnt have a small head, or a large head to think with.

Not filing is a crime, wtih significant penalties.

If a person thinks that just because some internet phantom pulled a fast one on Uncle Sam, get ready, get Vaseline, and start whacking to pictures of Eric Holder

Edited April 5, 2014 by Scarpolo

[johnbits]

This will be my last quote:

Anyone who takes tax advice from this message thread, deserves what befalls them.

Added, Anyone who doesnt file for 30 years and thinks they arent going to be called in, doesnt have a small head, or a large head to think with.

Not filing is a crime, wtih significant penalties.

If a person thinks that just because some internet phantom pulled a fast one on Uncle Sam, get ready, get Vaseline, and start whacking to pictures of Eric Holder

Technically, if you make under some amount, like under 10,000 in the USA, you don't have to file. Living in a foreign country changes things, I don't know how. Foreign assets have to be reported.

The IRS would likely have a hard time figuring out how much you earned if you didn't have a lot of assets or a paper trail. But if they got interested, they would want to know how you lived with no income.

But if you have assets, or had / have a large bank account somewhere, they will want to know how you got that money.

They can go back as far as they want if you never filed, or filed a fraudulent return. All the statue of limitations run from the date you file. They can audit a return you did file for up to three years. But even that changes if you have omitted more than 25% of your income. You can't get a refund if it's more than 3 years old.

I would get a tax lawyer even if I didn't need to file because of my low income just for peace of mind. They likely wouldn't charge much if it were a simple case.

In most cases I don't think there will be a problem. I do wonder what would happen if you just started filing when you arrived in the USA. Without ever trying to file back tax forms.

Edited April 5, 2014 by johnbits

[wym]

No, just not filing when you are overseas is technically a violation, not sure if you'd call it a "crime" but they sure could use it to add to the fine if you were to be held to actually owe them money.

However - again, this is from experience - if you DON'T owe them any money because your income was always relatively low, for example being a teacher here, everyone knows it pays a pittance by US standards - AND if you have never had any bad record, always were a good taxpayer when you did live stateside - AND you don't have any significant assets - AND there isn't any other indication you might have been up to anything dodgy like drugs or human trafficking etc

THEN it is very likely they won't bother with you at all if you come clean and start filing everything you're supposed to once you come back home.

I imagine trying to do so while you are still overseas would be more likely to attract their attention, IMO if your "turning over a new leaf" coincided with your return that would be more straightforward.

Obviously not making any promises, but from my experience there is no need to worry nor hire any kind of professional if one's circumstances match what I outlined above.

[slipperylobster]

No, just not filing when you are overseas is technically a violation, not sure if you'd call it a "crime" but they sure could use it to add to the fine if you were to be held to actually owe them money.

However - again, this is from experience - if you DON'T owe them any money because your income was always relatively low, for example being a teacher here, everyone knows it pays a pittance by US standards - AND if you have never had any bad record, always were a good taxpayer when you did live stateside - AND you don't have any significant assets - AND there isn't any other indication you might have been up to anything dodgy like drugs or human trafficking etc

THEN it is very likely they won't bother with you at all if you come clean and start filing everything you're supposed to once you come back home.

I imagine trying to do so while you are still overseas would be more likely to attract their attention, IMO if your "turning over a new leaf" coincided with your return that would be more straightforward.

Obviously not making any promises, but from my experience there is no need to worry nor hire any kind of professional if one's circumstances match what I outlined above.

You must declare foreign income....no matter how small.

and foreign accounts.

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Income-from-Abroad-is-Taxable

[wym]

Yes already acknowledged that, but it's a technical requirement not one they'll actually punish you for IF you meet the circumstances I outlined.

Based on my recent experience anyway, YMMV.

[chuckd]

No, just not filing when you are overseas is technically a violation, not sure if you'd call it a "crime" but they sure could use it to add to the fine if you were to be held to actually owe them money.

<snip>

IRS Publication 17 has this to say about filing requirements. Failing to file because you are overseas is NOT technically a violation of US Code, as long as you do not make over the minimum amount of wages required by law for filing.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Filing status. Your filing status depends on whether you are single or married and on your family situation. Your filing status is determined on the last day of your tax year, which is December 31 for most taxpayers. See chapter 2 for an explanation of each filing status.

Age. If you are 65 or older at the end of the year, you generally can have a higher amount of gross income than other taxpayers before you must file. See Table 1-1. You are considered 65 on the day before your 65th birthday. For example, if your 65th birthday is on January 1, 2014, you are considered 65 for 2013.

Table 1-1.2013 Filing Requirements for Most Taxpayers

IF your filing status is... AND at the end of 2013 you were...* THEN file a return if your gross income was at least...

++single

under 65 $10,000 65 or older $11,500

++ married filing jointly

under 65 (both spouses) $20,000 65 or older (one spouse) $21,200 65 or older (both spouses) $22,400

++married filing separately

any age $3,900

++head of household

under 65 $12,850 65 or older $14,350

++qualifying widow(er)

with dependent child under 65 $16,100 65 or older $17,300

* If you were born on January 1, 1949, you are considered to be age 65 at the end of 2013. ** Gross income means all income you received in the form of money, goods, property, and services that is not exempt from tax, including any income from sources outside the United States or from the sale of your main home (even if you can exclude part or all of it). Do not include any social security benefits unless (a) you are married filing a separate return and you lived with your spouse at any time during 2013 or ( one-half of your social security benefits plus your other gross income and any tax-exempt interest is more than $25,000 ($32,000 if married filing jointly). If (a) or ( applies, see the Instructions for Form 1040 or 1040A or Publication 915 to figure the taxable part of social security benefits you must include in gross income. Gross income includes gains, but not losses, reported on Form 8949 or Schedule D. Gross income from a business means, for example, the amount on Schedule C, line 7, or Schedule F, line 9. But, in figuring gross income, do not reduce your income by any losses, including any loss on Schedule C, line 7, or Schedule F, line 9. *** If you did not live with your spouse at the end of 2013 (or on the date your spouse died) and your gross income was at least $3,900, you must file a return regardless of your age.

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p17/ch01.html#en_US_2013_publink1000170407

Edited April 5, 2014 by chuckd

[geodesic]

The statue of limitations for not filing a income tax return is 3 years. Thus 27 odd of your 30 odd as mentioned are of no legal concern to you nor the IRS.

If no tax was/is owed for the 3 years prior to your return then you are home free so to speak.

This is my real life experience, doing excatly what the OP is proposing to do.

Very interesting..

Please clarify this.

Imagine the following scenario is true...

The last year I had any taxable income was 2011 .

The amount owed is/was not much.

I failed to file my taxes for the year 2011.

I moved to Thailand in Jan of 2012 and have had no taxable income since coming here.

Are you saying that this statue of limitations means I am no longer required to file or pay taxes for 2010 after the end of 2014??

It sounds too good to be true!

Thanks in advance!

It sounds too good to be true because it is.

There are several rules that the IRS uses. The 3 year one is the length of time that the IRS can audit your tax return if you have already filed AND you have not committed fraud or made an error on your income of more than 25%. If either of the latter 2 are the case, then the time they can audit you for is up to 7 years. This timer begins ON THE DAY YOU FILE YOUR RETURN.

Note, if you DO NOT FILE a tax return, either because you are not legally required to or because you neglected to, the above timer never starts running. In this case, you could be held liable for taxes essentially forever. If you want to start the clock ticking, you must file a return. This is why many people file a tax return even in years they make no income and are not required to. As long as you have filed a tax return and not committed fraud, after 3 years, the IRS can't audit you any longer. If you do not file a return, you are fair game as long as you are breathing.

There is also another statute of limitations that says the IRS can only try to collect a debt for up to 10 years after the taxes have been assessed. After that point, they have to write the debt off. Lots of expats get tripped up here though...any time you spend outside the country does NOT count toward that 10 years. You have to spend that 10 years legally resident in the USA for that provision to apply, and any years you spend outside the US suspend that clock, which restarts as soon as you return. Also, just because you are living outside the US and the 10 year clock isn't running, does not mean they are not allowed to try and collect from you during this time. They have it rigged so it is never an advantage running away.

There is a significant amount of information about the IRS procedures on the internet, but sadly, there is a significant amount of misinformation as well. Do not believe everything you read.

If you have ever failed to file your taxes, it is highly recommended you file your taxes ASAP. You may not be able to get out of the fees and penalties, but you can at least start the audit clock running. That is one less thing you have to worry about.

Edited April 5, 2014 by geodesic

[Scarpolo]

The statue of limitations for not filing a income tax return is 3 years. Thus 27 odd of your 30 odd as mentioned are of no legal concern to you nor the IRS.

If no tax was/is owed for the 3 years prior to your return then you are home free so to speak.

This is my real life experience, doing excatly what the OP is proposing to do.

Very interesting..

Please clarify this.

Imagine the following scenario is true...

The last year I had any taxable income was 2011 .

The amount owed is/was not much.

I failed to file my taxes for the year 2011.

I moved to Thailand in Jan of 2012 and have had no taxable income since coming here.

Are you saying that this statue of limitations means I am no longer required to file or pay taxes for 2010 after the end of 2014??

It sounds too good to be true!

Thanks in advance!

It sounds too good to be true because it is.

There are several rules that the IRS uses. The 3 year one is the length of time that the IRS can audit your tax return if you have already filed AND you have not committed fraud or made an error on your income of more than 25%. If either of the latter 2 are the case, then the time they can audit you for is up to 7 years. This timer begins ON THE DAY YOU FILE YOUR RETURN.

Note, if you DO NOT FILE a tax return, either because you are not legally required to or because you neglected to, the above timer never starts running. In this case, you could be held liable for taxes essentially forever. If you want to start the clock ticking, you must file a return. This is why many people file a tax return even in years they make no income and are not required to. As long as you have filed a tax return and not committed fraud, after 3 years, the IRS can't audit you any longer. If you do not file a return, you are fair game as long as you are breathing.

There is also another statute of limitations that says the IRS can only try to collect a debt for up to 10 years after the taxes have been assessed. After that point, they have to write the debt off. Lots of expats get tripped up here though...any time you spend outside the country does NOT count toward that 10 years. You have to spend that 10 years legally resident in the USA for that provision to apply, and any years you spend outside the US suspend that clock, which restarts as soon as you return. Also, just because you are living outside the US and the 10 year clock isn't running, does not mean they are not allowed to try and collect from you during this time. They have it rigged so it is never an advantage running away.

There is a significant amount of information about the IRS procedures on the internet, but sadly, there is a significant amount of misinformation as well. Do not believe everything you read.

If you have ever failed to file your taxes, it is highly recommended you file your taxes ASAP. You may not be able to get out of the fees and penalties, but you can at least start the audit clock running. That is one less thing you have to worry about.

forget starting the clock

as soon as the filing gets to the computers he is flagged and will receive a computer generated letter asking him if he filed the year before, becsuse there is no record for continuity, and the certified letter comes next, and, you are only addressing Sam, no one had heard if he is in a protected state or not

rule is, dont call us, we wont call you

why upset that now?

[JDGRUEN]

OP ... regardless of the IRS rules - and bad advice you may get here. Please for your own sake - DO NOT contact the IRS yourself and do not represent yourself ... you would just be shooting yourself in the foot. It would take you years of intense study to be educated enough to spare with the IRS over this issue. If you try to do this on your own - the IRS will deliberately hammer you - knowing you do not understand all the rules - do not know the questions to ask and do not know what can and will be freely negotiated... Yes it would cost you money to hire professionals who deal in these type of matters. But it is not a staggering amount. And as soon as it can be shown that you have not had huge sums of money earned and there is little for them to get out of you, the IRS will negotiate with professionals representing you. Example - a $69,000 debt to the IRS pared down to paying $65.00 a month for two years - then paying $365.00 for one more year... then because the statute of limitations ran out allowing collection .. Nothing was paid after the third year - debt absolved. Example - ten years on non filing WAIVED completely... Estimated filings for the immediate past seven years - with small refunds awarded but not refunded ... they were applied to the debt owned. If you have not tried to conceal income or commit any fraudulent act - then most everything will be negotiated away IF YOU HIRE A PROFESSIONAL Representative ...

[RichardLee]

State taxes are not an issue for me. There are, I believe, seven states that do not levy a state income tax, and I am fortunate enough to be from one of those.

EDIT: Oh, and as for jury duty, that's not a problem either. My "home address" is that of a relative. I almost never get mail there anymore, but jury summons are sent there since that's the one I base my voter registration on. It's happened only once or twice, and the relative just contacted the authorities and explained I was living over here, and that's taken care of it.

Edited April 6, 2014 by RichardLee

[Scarpolo]

good to know on the jury duty

[RichardLee]

It's been so long since I've had a jury summons that I wonder if they've refined the system. My voting is based on my US address, but they have my address here and always mail my ballot to me here in Thailand. I wonder if they know now not to bother sending me a summons anymore since I have a foreign address also registered. Not heard anything like that, just wondering since it's been maybe 15 or 20 years since my last jury summons.