PM Yingluck admits tough rice testimony ahead

[clockman]

Dont hold your breath. Nothing will happen. Except the poor, being shafted yet again. T.I.T.

[scorecard]

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Dont hold your breath. Nothing will happen. Except the poor, being shafted yet again. T.I.T.

Agree, all the more reason why urgent and comprehensive reforms are needed, now!

[Scamper]

Yingluck, Thaksin, and Pheu Thai's war on the judicial process continues. Yingluck may smile a lot on camera, but beneath that is a determination to play out her case on TV and through the media - and not in a court of law. She is using the media in a daily campaign against the very court she is supposed to answer to. She is seeking to de-legitimize the agency. She does it with every reference to the NACC. Thaksin thinks this is not only becoming, but a winning strategy. Get the public to root against the courts. The Administrative Court last May affirmed the unconstitutionality of Tawil's transfer. She appealed. The Supreme Administrative Court affirmed exactly the same ruling - unanimously. What did she do ? She simply continues to pedal her belief that it was a lawful transfer ! Therefore, from her point of view, the courts have no meaning. Kwanchai would obviously agree with her, but that's hardly comforting.

[robblok]

its a farce, not being allowed to have witnesses to testify on your behalf, due process not allowed when reviewing evidence, case taking precedence and jumping the q.

The burden of proof is often associated with the Latin maxim semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit, the best translation of which seems to be: "the necessity of proof always lies with the person who lays charges.http://www.trans-lex.org/966000

Due process is the legal requirement that the state must respect all of the legal rights that are owed to a person. Due process balances the power of law of the land and protects the individual person from it. When a government harms a person without following the exact course of the law, this constitutes a due-process violation, which offends against the rule of law. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_process

Impartiality is a principle of justice and the NACC has the burden of proof and must adhere to due process. That means they must; give adequate time to the defence, consider all evidence, consider all cases in a timely and impartial manner, etc. The manner in which the NACC are conducting this investigation and hearing is highly suspicious, especially given the lenience and lack of haste applied to others. They are laying themselves bare to criticism which will severely undermine their foregone verdict. This has happened before with several cases against Thaksin and or his parties leading to division & hatred.

Ahem, if I may respectfully interrupt this totally unrelated lecture on courts, laws and proceedings, thank you.

The NACC has no burden of proof. It investigates, it asks questions, it recommends and it tries to be as accurate as possible. That's about it. The Senate will do some more investigation, and come to a connclusion. Now if that is negative (for Ms. Yingluck), the next step can be a criminal charge at a court. That's when we get all the 'normal' legal procedure into play.

Now back to the OP with Ms. Yingluck talking about a tough testimony. I thought she already deposited her testimony and said hello last Monday when she was at the NACC premises for 10 minutes?

Does that mean that even if the NACC has loads of evidence but an senate that is made up from "red" members nothing will happen ?

or alternatively if it is full of yellow members with almost no evidence she can get convicted ?

If so then the NACC is basically toothless ? as its the senate that bites and whoever controls that is in power ?

That would be really bad as this way you never get anything done here.

[Nickymaster]

I very much doubt she or her Govt are innocent, but to pretend this inquiry is anything other than politically motivated is just being naive.

Everyone is aware that corruption runs from top to bottom in Thailand, and has done since the beginning of time through all administrations, and other than her brother, i dont believe anyone has ever been found guilty of anything or even investigated properly.

If she is found to have been negligent she should be punished in accordance with the law, and hopefully this would set a precedent going forward so that people of all political persuasion and position are investigated and punished accordingly without any prejudice. However once she is disposed of, i doubt very much this will happen, but here's to hoping. One bad apple about to dissapear, lets hope the remaining 100's are also weeded out. I wont be holding my breath on it though!

I very much doubt she or her Govt are innocent, but to pretend this inquiry is anything other than politically motivated is just being naive.

The delay in investigating might also have been politically motivated. Maybe NACC didn't have the balls earlier on when the Shins where going full throttle ahead doing whatever they wanted to do with little resistance. The keyword here is momentum. It's a never ending story Smutcakes.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Nickymaster

[WoopyDoo]

its a farce, not being allowed to have witnesses to testify on your behalf, due process not allowed when reviewing evidence, case taking precedence and jumping the q.

The burden of proof is often associated with the Latin maxim semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit, the best translation of which seems to be: "the necessity of proof always lies with the person who lays charges.http://www.trans-lex.org/966000

Due process is the legal requirement that the state must respect all of the legal rights that are owed to a person. Due process balances the power of law of the land and protects the individual person from it. When a government harms a person without following the exact course of the law, this constitutes a due-process violation, which offends against the rule of law. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_process

Impartiality is a principle of justice and the NACC has the burden of proof and must adhere to due process. That means they must; give adequate time to the defence, consider all evidence, consider all cases in a timely and impartial manner, etc. The manner in which the NACC are conducting this investigation and hearing is highly suspicious, especially given the lenience and lack of haste applied to others. They are laying themselves bare to criticism which will severely undermine their foregone verdict. This has happened before with several cases against Thaksin and or his parties leading to division & hatred.

Ahem, if I may respectfully interrupt this totally unrelated lecture on courts, laws and proceedings, thank you.

The NACC has no burden of proof. It investigates, it asks questions, it recommends and it tries to be as accurate as possible. That's about it. The Senate will do some more investigation, and come to a connclusion. Now if that is negative (for Ms. Yingluck), the next step can be a criminal charge at a court. That's when we get all the 'normal' legal procedure into play.

Now back to the OP with Ms. Yingluck talking about a tough testimony. I thought she already deposited her testimony and said hello last Monday when she was at the NACC premises for 10 minutes?

Does that mean that even if the NACC has loads of evidence but an senate that is made up from "red" members nothing will happen ?

or alternatively if it is full of yellow members with almost no evidence she can get convicted ?

If so then the NACC is basically toothless ? as its the senate that bites and whoever controls that is in power ?

That would be really bad as this way you never get anything done here.

Actually I do what the procedures would be in that case.

If the NACC in fact produces overwhelming and irrefutable evidence for a conviction against YL.

Then the Senate would have no option but to indict her, no matter what their allegience is.

If senators were actually found to be voting against such irrefutable evidence, it could expose their bias motives and those senators if the other half lodge a petition against the bias ones, they could end up impeached themselves.

Some senators therefore could end up being indicted from their very first action in their seats.

People bandy on about the senate being able to sway democracy because they are connected to a certain political party is actually wrong, the senate is still being watched

So senators really need the NACC ruling to be in a bit of a grey area to be able to vote against impeachment. But if the case is obvious for impeachment, then they have to really love YL to risk their seat for her. The constitutional Court will be on them within days. It just takes a petition to put senators under scrutiny and in the dock.

[Nickymaster]

Yingluck, Thaksin, and Pheu Thai's war on the judicial process continues. Yingluck may smile a lot on camera, but beneath that is a determination to play out her case on TV and through the media - and not in a court of law. She is using the media in a daily campaign against the very court she is supposed to answer to. She is seeking to de-legitimize the agency. She does it with every reference to the NACC. Thaksin thinks this is not only becoming, but a winning strategy. Get the public to root against the courts. The Administrative Court last May affirmed the unconstitutionality of Tawil's transfer. She appealed. The Supreme Administrative Court affirmed exactly the same ruling - unanimously. What did she do ? She simply continues to pedal her belief that it was a lawful transfer ! Therefore, from her point of view, the courts have no meaning. Kwanchai would obviously agree with her, but that's hardly comforting.

Indeed. The shameless Shins are real cowards. They spend 900 billion with no transparency. The public has been begging for years to see figures but Yingluck refused. Now that she is being investigated she starts crying and tells the media day in day out how bad the courts are. Truly sickening.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Nickymaster

[Yunla]

I want to really like her, when I see that picture I'm thinking she's a nice cuddly News Lady, dutifully telling me about traffic hot-spots and cats trapped down wells. She looks lovely and at peace in that News Room setting. But having followed her family for a while now, I can't shake the feeling that the room is on the Death Star, and all the news is very bad indeed.

In any case, she is guilty of not taking charge of the rice policy and ruling it with an iron grip from start to finish. Whoever stole the money and led to farmers being unpaid, it is fundamentally Yingluck's fault as she is the boss and if she had not intended to do rice pledging in a secure and professional manner - she should not have done it at all. And that is the least corrupt of the possible crimes committed, yet it in itself is enough to cast grave doubts on her ability and integrity in performing such a critically important job.

[Lupatria]

If I were a judge, even in a minor traffic offense case, the last thing for me to consider would be to take a witness with the agenda of Dr. Earmedicine as a serious source.

[Nickymaster]

its a farce, not being allowed to have witnesses to testify on your behalf, due process not allowed when reviewing evidence, case taking precedence and jumping the q.

The burden of proof is often associated with the Latin maxim semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit, the best translation of which seems to be: "the necessity of proof always lies with the person who lays charges.http://www.trans-lex.org/966000

Due process is the legal requirement that the state must respect all of the legal rights that are owed to a person. Due process balances the power of law of the land and protects the individual person from it. When a government harms a person without following the exact course of the law, this constitutes a due-process violation, which offends against the rule of law. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_process

Impartiality is a principle of justice and the NACC has the burden of proof and must adhere to due process. That means they must; give adequate time to the defence, consider all evidence, consider all cases in a timely and impartial manner, etc. The manner in which the NACC are conducting this investigation and hearing is highly suspicious, especially given the lenience and lack of haste applied to others. They are laying themselves bare to criticism which will severely undermine their foregone verdict. This has happened before with several cases against Thaksin and or his parties leading to division & hatred.

The charge is negligence. Has she been negligent? UUhh let's see....dozens of warnings from all over the globe including IMF and Worldbank. Dozens of recommendations how to improve transparency and management. Has she done something with it? UUhh let's see....NO!

She is in charge of the scheme. Has she ever attended any meetings? UUhh...let's see...NO! Does she have any idea what is going on in this scheme? UUhh...let's see...I don't think so. She even said during the last no-confidence debate that she assigned her people to attend meetings for her and therefor she is not really aware what is going on.

Simple as that. Preach all you want about division and hatred but the Shins had 2.5 years to proof they learned their lesson from the past. Instead they went full steam ahead stealing what they could before they would get caught. Thaksin is a smart man. He knows that he hasn't got many changes left to steal from Thailand. Therefor he went for the big fish, and almost for an ever bigger one the 2.2 trillion infrastructure loan.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Nickymaster

[mikemac]

its a farce, not being allowed to have witnesses to testify on your behalf, due process not allowed when reviewing evidence, case taking precedence and jumping the q.

Says a lot about your comment when rich teacher "likes" it. Would not want someone like him agreeing with anything I said.

[mikemac]

I very much doubt she or her Govt are innocent, but to pretend this inquiry is anything other than politically motivated is just being naive.

Everyone is aware that corruption runs from top to bottom in Thailand, and has done since the beginning of time through all administrations, and other than her brother, i dont believe anyone has ever been found guilty of anything or even investigated properly.

If she is found to have been negligent she should be punished in accordance with the law, and hopefully this would set a precedent going forward so that people of all political persuasion and position are investigated and punished accordingly without any prejudice. However once she is disposed of, i doubt very much this will happen, but here's to hoping. One bad apple about to dissapear, lets hope the remaining 100's are also weeded out. I wont be holding my breath on it though!

I very much doubt she or her Govt are innocent, but to pretend this inquiry is anything other than politically motivated is just being naive.

The delay in investigating might also have been politically motivated. Maybe NACC didn't have the balls earlier on when the Shins where going full throttle ahead doing whatever they wanted to do with little resistance. The keyword here is momentum. It's a never ending story Smutcakes.

smutty ! and yet another one seems to be turning away from the "dark side". will wonders ever cease ?

[Dogmatix]

its a farce, not being allowed to have witnesses to testify on your behalf, due process not allowed when reviewing evidence, case taking precedence and jumping the q.

The burden of proof is often associated with the Latin maxim semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit, the best translation of which seems to be: "the necessity of proof always lies with the person who lays charges.http://www.trans-lex.org/966000

Due process is the legal requirement that the state must respect all of the legal rights that are owed to a person. Due process balances the power of law of the land and protects the individual person from it. When a government harms a person without following the exact course of the law, this constitutes a due-process violation, which offends against the rule of law. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_process

Impartiality is a principle of justice and the NACC has the burden of proof and must adhere to due process. That means they must; give adequate time to the defence, consider all evidence, consider all cases in a timely and impartial manner, etc. The manner in which the NACC are conducting this investigation and hearing is highly suspicious, especially given the lenience and lack of haste applied to others. They are laying themselves bare to criticism which will severely undermine their foregone verdict. This has happened before with several cases against Thaksin and or his parties leading to division & hatred.

You forget that the NACC is not a court of law. It is an anti-corruption investigative agency that has not power to determine guilt or innocence. The case will be referred to the Senate and then to the Supreme Court for Political Office Holders for criminal proceedings. The Senate's vote is part of a political process where legal due process has no bearing but it will come into its own in the criminal trial for dereliction of duty under Section 157 of the Penal Code. That is where due process will be important and the NACC's evidence may be found wanting. Yingluck will finally get her day in court.

[Dogmatix]

A member of the PM’s defense team, Bancha Poramesanaporn, is preparing to request that the NACC question 4 additional witnesses, including Labor Minister Chalerm Yubamrung, Deputy Commissioner General Worapong Chiwaprecha, Deputy Secretary General of the Prime Minister Tawat Boonfieng, and President of the Federation of Accounting Professions Pichai Chunhawashira.

It is unclear how Chalerm's testimony could have a bearing on this case or what credibility anyone could attach to it anyway. All of this people had nothing to do with the rice pledging scheme and have asked to tell a pack of lies to support a story that has been concocted to pretend that YL make strenuous efforts to root out corruption and prevent financial losses, as well as play for time. I am not surprised that the NACC has not fallen for this BS.

[smutcakes]

I very much doubt she or her Govt are innocent, but to pretend this inquiry is anything other than politically motivated is just being naive.

Everyone is aware that corruption runs from top to bottom in Thailand, and has done since the beginning of time through all administrations, and other than her brother, i dont believe anyone has ever been found guilty of anything or even investigated properly.

If she is found to have been negligent she should be punished in accordance with the law, and hopefully this would set a precedent going forward so that people of all political persuasion and position are investigated and punished accordingly without any prejudice. However once she is disposed of, i doubt very much this will happen, but here's to hoping. One bad apple about to dissapear, lets hope the remaining 100's are also weeded out. I wont be holding my breath on it though!

I very much doubt she or her Govt are innocent, but to pretend this inquiry is anything other than politically motivated is just being naive.

The delay in investigating might also have been politically motivated. Maybe NACC didn't have the balls earlier on when the Shins where going full throttle ahead doing whatever they wanted to do with little resistance. The keyword here is momentum. It's a never ending story Smutcakes.

smutty ! and yet another one seems to be turning away from the "dark side". will wonders ever cease ?

Dont count on it Mikey M, I have always said that this Government is useless, i just dont agree with the PDRC and the machinations which are happening, especially as the other option is also bent! and the precedent that mass protests and vote blocking causes. Not to mention there are such limited details of what the 'reform' is and by whom. If they were more detailed, you never know i may cross over to the dark side completely.

[tullynagardy]

She needs to "bend over and take it like a man"

Not sure about the "like a man" sentiment, but agree about the bending her over bit.

Some spanking as well for being such a corrupt and naughty girl.

[Dogmatix]

its a farce, not being allowed to have witnesses to testify on your behalf, due process not allowed when reviewing evidence, case taking precedence and jumping the q.

Says a lot about your comment when rich teacher "likes" it. Would not want someone like him agreeing with anything I said.

This is not a court of law. The right to call any witnesses she wants to testify on her behalf will come in her criminal trial in the Supreme Court for Political Office Holders. After indicting her (if they do) and forwarding the case to the Senate to vote on, the NACC has the obligation to initiate criminal proceedings. Whether she wins or loses the impeachment vote in the Senate has no bearing on the criminal trial.

[scorecard]

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It always makes for a great start in a legal case to declare that you are being treated unfairly and to have your legal team echo that sentiment.

If the missing/incomplete documents relate to the financial administration of the scheme then this would be an own goal as many parties have been crying out for many months for the exact figures and despite many promises that it would do so, the PTP has failed to deliver.

They could not find the missing documents because they are still with the missing 450 billion thai baht. And the incomplete records are the list of people who took the money. Also YL wants more people to testify to make it easier for her so she doesnt have to answer for herself. She would be speechless already without her legal team.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

And a million poor farmers are still waiting, now 7 and 8 months, to be paid for their produce, and in many cases cannot replant, and they have been silenced.

[soalbundy]

She wants more time,i would give it to her........about ten years with no probation possible

[soalbundy]

She needs to "bend over and take it like a man"

Not sure about the "like a man" sentiment, but agree about the bending her over bit.

Some spanking as well for being such a corrupt and naughty girl.

In suspenders and high heels

[AleG]

its a farce, not being allowed to have witnesses to testify on your behalf, due process not allowed when reviewing evidence, case taking precedence and jumping the q.

The burden of proof is often associated with the Latin maxim semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit, the best translation of which seems to be: "the necessity of proof always lies with the person who lays charges.http://www.trans-lex.org/966000

Due process is the legal requirement that the state must respect all of the legal rights that are owed to a person. Due process balances the power of law of the land and protects the individual person from it. When a government harms a person without following the exact course of the law, this constitutes a due-process violation, which offends against the rule of law. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_process

Impartiality is a principle of justice and the NACC has the burden of proof and must adhere to due process. That means they must; give adequate time to the defence, consider all evidence, consider all cases in a timely and impartial manner, etc. The manner in which the NACC are conducting this investigation and hearing is highly suspicious, especially given the lenience and lack of haste applied to others. They are laying themselves bare to criticism which will severely undermine their foregone verdict. This has happened before with several cases against Thaksin and or his parties leading to division & hatred.

That's lovely, except the NACC is not a court and they are doing is collecting the evidence to either dismiss the allegations against Yingluck or push the case to the actual courts.

Besides that the burden of proof lies with the government, they work for the people and their secrecy on the rice scheme was keeping information away from those they work for.

The government has a duty to be transparent and accountable on their use of public funds, that they have to be dragged kicking and screaming to do so shows that they want to hide the facts, and why would they want to hide the facts if there's nothing wrong with the scheme?

[ginjag]

She needs to "bend over and take it like a man"

Not sure about the "like a man" sentiment, but agree about the bending her over bit.

Some spanking as well for being such a corrupt and naughty girl.

In suspenders and high heels

Her or you ??

[Skywalker69]

Nice pic. Nice clean desk, not a piece of paperwork, but holding a pen. Obviously not a lot going on mentally or physically.

Edit: oops... not even holding a pen... it's the table line 555

If a messy desk points to a messy brain, what does an emty desk points to?

[ginjag]

Nice pic. Nice clean desk, not a piece of paperwork, but holding a pen. Obviously not a lot going on mentally or physically.

Edit: oops... not even holding a pen... it's the table line 555

If a messy desk points to a messy brain, what does an emty desk points to?

Precisely ---A good boss is a busy boss, too much work to do-that is why you have persons below you, you delegate lesser important work and deal with the VIP stuff yourself.

UNLESS you do not have the knowledge, then you have to delegate the lot.

Her desk should be full with in and out tray, all bosses have this as it is standard practice.

[Why ask]

its a farce, not being allowed to have witnesses to testify on your behalf, due process not allowed when reviewing evidence, case taking precedence and jumping the q.

Your problem is serious loss of memory. Start from the initial ( INVITE) and follow it then through. Time she had.

Loss of memory or mammory? If you can't get used to tight ass and small nom... what's the point of taking a precedence? The q. can be a mile long, and there's still nom lek//... ! that's the beauty of no due process.

[ramrod711]

If she was charged with corruption, proof would be evidence that she knew that money was changing hands, and that she possibly profited from it. Negligence requires proof that she did not perform her duties in a responsible manner. The very fact that billions of baht are missing and she knows nothing about it, that millions of farmers haven't been paid, despite many promises, that they can't sell the rice, is ample proof of negligence. No witnesses required, guilty as charged.

[namatjira]

wow, is that a genuine faux walnut telephone....wonder where she got that from

[GentlemanJim]

I think everyone she wants should be allowed to testify. There is no 5th amendment in the constitution here, let them all incriminate themselves as part of the process and maybe we can get a few more in the slammer.

[GAZZPA]

Why are her legal team questioning the motives of the NACC?

There are no hidden agendas and there is no additional motive other then simply for the NACC to perform their duty and investigate the corruption charges against Yingluck.

To me this tells me more about yingluck and her legal team then anything else. clearly they are used to looking for the hidden agenda or beneficiary for any activity.

Perhaps in this case the NACC are just doing their job and investigating the allegations.

[binjalin]

set-up!

but she knows with the present 'unbiased' system the vipers gather round

still she should take heart that the vast majority of Thais are with her and can SEE the ridiculous absurdity and unfairness

history will treat her more kindly in years to come when all the shenanigans are exposed