Sheryl Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 That's something different,. When he starts to gurgle like there is a lot of phlegm in his throat and he can't cough it out, is the point at which he'll need medication for secretions. It comes towards the very end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted June 21, 2014 Author Share Posted June 21, 2014 Thanks for the note Actually I think ha has started havering this kind of breathing Although he was able to sleep quite well from yeaterday 6 pm till this morning he has difficulties breathing, staring at the ceiling or other empty places. His breathing, stopping from time to time, like apnea, is accompanied by this noise you are describing ( like when we are gurgling ) The Neuro came by this morning and is kind of puzzled ordered e secretions to be sucked out, which is fine. As my spouse is not feeding himself he also suggested intubation which we declines. I had problems with the interned and, therefore couldn't ask me do the drugs mentioned above. I going to wait for Laksamee and ask her about them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeryble Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I'm absolutely not suggesting anything for you, but for me I sure hope someone close slips me an adequate Mickey Finn to do the job at the right time if I ever get a nasty progressive illness. That would be the true height of friendship I think. All that said it may be that Thais live less in their heads than us, and may be better at dying. Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheryl Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Thanks for the note Actually I think ha has started havering this kind of breathing Although he was able to sleep quite well from yeaterday 6 pm till this morning he has difficulties breathing, staring at the ceiling or other empty places. His breathing, stopping from time to time, like apnea, is accompanied by this noise you are describing ( like when we are gurgling ) The Neuro came by this morning and is kind of puzzled ordered e secretions to be sucked out, which is fine. As my spouse is not feeding himself he also suggested intubation which we declines. I had problems with the interned and, therefore couldn't ask me do the drugs mentioned above. I going to wait for Laksamee and ask her about them Yes, she will know and be able to order it. Which should alleviate the need for suctioning, which can be unpleasant for the patient. His condition at this point is due to his advanced cancer, nothing to do with his neuro problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted June 21, 2014 Author Share Posted June 21, 2014 I know, but as the neuro is usually his primary physician, I asked Laksamee to take care of my spouse and ask the Neuro to assist, as he is still taking his medicine for that condition and also because....you know,no loss of face. One thing, which is not directly linked to this particular situation, has been upsetting me for a while: when we ask for medical certificate it is very difficult to get one without going though a questionnaire about the why and the who and also they MUST expose the all medical condition to people who are not supposed to know ( bank and other entities ) I do feel that this is in direct violation with the medical secret Example: I asked the bank manager to fingerprint my spouse ( in order to close an account both signatures were needed ). Once done he asked me to produce a medical certificate attesting that he couldn't write ( this part, I don't understand either as all parties were physically present ). I asked the doctor to do so: the whole history was written, with so many details that the bank manager, who only needed a sentence " the patient cannot write " argued that the content indicated that my spouse couldn't understand anything. I had to ask doctor and manager to talk to each other to solve that problem ( the doctor eventually rewrote the certificate half in English and half inThai ) So much trouble for nothing How about privacy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted June 21, 2014 Author Share Posted June 21, 2014 Clarification needed: he has been sleeping ( I think ) for most of the day. He hasn't couched dor two days, the watery breathing has disappeared. Instead he breathes ( mouth wide open ) evry 30/60 seconds. I see that he is making an effort to breathe but I dint think he is in pain ( pentsmyl 50 and drip morphine 2 mg per hor)) Is it common for people in that condition? Does this indicate an end to the suffering ? Or is it just another phase I wasn't there when Laksamee came around and she dismissed the two products cited earlier on as pain killers I will talk to her tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheryl Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Yes, this is common and indicates he is deeply sedated. He is no longer in pain -- and if he should start to seem to be, then just ask to have the morphine dose increased. If he already has IV Morphine he doesn't need anything else for pain. A drug for watery breathing if necessary (i.e. if tyhe gurgling sounds come back), and that's all. His breathing will get more and more erratic, this is normal. It sounds like the end may be drawing near. As it does you will see the neck muscles working as he breathes and the breathing becoming more and more irregular, sometimes it will stop altogether and then start again and finally it will just stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted June 21, 2014 Author Share Posted June 21, 2014 I understand but it is very strange as he is only getting so little morphine. He woke up an hour ago and looked quite fine and alert, like he is back in shape Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheryl Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Then perhaps not yet his time. The important thing is that he is comfortable and not in pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted June 22, 2014 Author Share Posted June 22, 2014 Maybe it is after all Yesterday was quite strange as on top of a state of light confusion ( holding pills his palm and trying to pour water in it instead putting them in his mouth, or picking up a 5 ml plastic cup to urinate....weird but these mishaps allowed us to laugh at it ), he was continuously getting out of the bed, going, with my help, to the toilets where he would sit 10 or 15 minutes (for nothing), going back to bed, pushing buttons of the medical instruments. Twice he was unable to control himself wetting the bed. At 4am last night I woke up and found his sheets wet again. I helped him out of the bed, sat him on the couch, cleaned him, called the nurses to change the sheets: he was conscious but very weak. Afterwards , he fell asleep breathing deeply. He has been looking for his breath ever since The Neuro came by at 7AM, willing to do more but I guess he realised that nothing would better the situation. So, no more anticoagulant nor anti epileptic.... I am waiting for Laksamee to have a precise idea of the course (of course I am asking bonus of 3mg every hour ) In the meanwhile I am lying next to him, listening to his breathing, waiting for an ineluctable exit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheryl Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Yes, it sounds like it will be soon. Changes in mental status are to be expected, it is both a side effect of the morphine and also of the dying process itself. He may have moments of clarity but mostly he will be increasingly out of it. Even when he seems unresponsive he may still be able to hear, so talk soothingly to him throughout, it will help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted June 22, 2014 Author Share Posted June 22, 2014 I will. Thanks for the support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheryl Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Buddhists believe that the state of mind at the time of death is important, and that one of the best things you can do to help someone is to remind them of good deeds they have done, large or small. Remembering one's good deeds brings about a positive state of mind. I don't know your husband's degree of belief in Buddhist teachings but even if low, can't really go wrong with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted June 22, 2014 Author Share Posted June 22, 2014 This is to express my gratitude to everyone on this thread. Your sound advices coupled with straightforward facts have allowed to prevent mistakes and disappointment. Of course, Sheryl, thanks for your support. Compassion and truthfulness are two qualities difficult to mix together but your help has had a tremendous effect on the path I took since the news hit us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted June 22, 2014 Author Share Posted June 22, 2014 At 00H05, Bangkok time, on June the 23rd Jak ( Thaworn ) my spouse, turned the last page. I spent all evening with him, listening to his breathing, soft towards the end, thanks to the morphine. I stayed by his side, talking and cuddling him, up till the very last second. I consider myself privileged I was able to lay by his side and say goodbye at the very moment he was taken away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carib Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Alyx, Please accept my sincere condolences, you both have been very brave, and I would wish that if something like that were to happen to me, someone like you could be around. You have done well. Right words are hard to find, so please accept the maybe wrong ones, since it is all I have to offer. I wish you strength. C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeryble Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 So glad it wasn't too protracted Alyx. As my friend who recently died said to me "All people really want is for others to see the world through their eyes" We have seen the world through your eyes. The fallen leaves that jewel the ground They know the art of dying And leave with joy their glad gold hearts In the scarlet shadows lying When hunger calls my footsteps home The morning follows after I swim the seas within my mind And the pine-trees laugh green laughter I used to search for happiness And I used to follow pleasure But I found a door behind my mind And that's the greatest treasure Sometimes I want to murder time Sometimes when my heart's aching But mostly I just stroll along The path that he is taking October Song Full beautiful song from the Incredible String Band on YouTube (link not allowed here it seems,highly recommend a search) Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheryl Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 At 00H05, Bangkok time, on June the 23rd Jak ( Thaworn ) my spouse, turned the last page. I spent all evening with him, listening to his breathing, soft towards the end, thanks to the morphine. I stayed by his side, talking and cuddling him, up till the very last second. I consider myself privileged I was able to lay by his side and say goodbye at the very moment he was taken away. Dear Alyx, So sorry for your loss, the impact of which you may fully feel in the coming days and weeks. I find that even when the death was long expected, people are surprised by the depth of their grief, and it often peaks quote some time afterwards. Because until that very last moment they were busy taking care of the person, and then after that busy with the necessary arrangements. Please take it easy and take care of yourself, and let us know if we can help in any way. You gave Thaworn a wonderful gift, not only of the years of love as a wife but in assuring him a peaceful end with loving care up to the last second. Without you it might have gone much differently. You took on the burden and resposnibility of facing it and finding the best way for him and I know this was far from easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fletchsmile Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Dear Alyx I'm very sorry for your loss. I wish you well and our thoughts are with you. Fletch Sent from my GT-I9152 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n210mp Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Dear Alyx Our most sincere condolences to you and your family together with our heartfelt appreciation and gratitude in allowing us to be with you through this last few weeks. Your love courage and tenacity have bee a shinning example of all that is best in mankind You are in our thought and prayers. Kindest regards Harvey & Wan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litlos Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Hi, I am sorry that you spouse as passed, but unfortunately that is the way of the world. The fact that you able to be there right at the end shows a sense of caring and commitment that is enviable. Now if my experience is anything to go bye life becomes a series of little anniversaries. Made it through the first day, two days, one week, one month etc etc. This is not mournful, just shows the impact on each others life that you had and honours the memory of those passed. Please remember that the best way for your spouse to be remembered is by yourself celebrating those anniversaries along the way. Ok take a few minutes out to be sorrowful if you need to, but a life is better celebrated as lived than mourned lost. Please take care of yourself during the coming weeks and learn to humbly filter the best intentions of friends and relatives. You will know when you are ready to take on a new challenge or move on, Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted June 23, 2014 Author Share Posted June 23, 2014 Talking of challenges , I am facing quite a big one I had anticipated every problem but the one I thought wasn't has become huge: burial I have managed to get in touch with the person in charge with the Protestant cemetery in Bangkok. He told me a price and made an appointment for......Saturday morning. Having no options, I had to agree. Afterwards I contacted a funeral company who gave me a fair price, but it is only in the evening that I noticed that this burial was to take place in Nakhon Sawan. I talked to the guy a few times to be told that the couldn't provide the people for the digging and cement. I contacted another one: misunderstanding as he gave me a price for the transportation and the coffin. He got kind of angry when I said that I didn't understand why funeral companies were not taking care of the digging. He went on saying that he didn't know who was really in charge with this particular cemetery, that the staff at the cemetery were supposed to do it. When I told him that his contact number had been given to me, and warmly recommended by the " person in charge " who had already worked with him, he replied that he didn't know that guy What am I supposed to do ? I am not letting my spouse at the morgue for weeks and the Nakhon Sawan option is disturbing although it seems the right thing to do at this stage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted June 23, 2014 Author Share Posted June 23, 2014 Nakhon Nayok and not Nakhon Sawan, wherever these places are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patsycat Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Alyx, When i read about the sad news about your husband, i actually cried real down my cheeks tears for you and him. We may never meet in real life but your story has touched, i am sure, many lives on here. Keep strong, and reach out to us if you need to. If you ever come over to Europe - I am here. I am lighting a candle tonight on my window sill for Jak. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobra Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Sincere condolences, We should all be so lucky, to have someone to care for us like you near the end is a true blessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbini Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I have no words to express how much compassion I feel for you . I want to say how blessed your spouse was to have you and congratulation on your inner strength and bravery . You both have given us all so much as you displayed super human strength and determination . Thank you for sharing so much with all of us and our prayers are with you both . Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 Well, I was blessed to have such a wonderful companion I think it was a match made in heaven with, obviously, some turbulences when flying such a long route Thanks to everyone for their messages: of course they bring tears to my eyes but it makes me feel like he is not alone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 Quite difficult for me now, to let him all by himself in a cold chamber but, hopefully, this matter should be solved any day this week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 By the way, I have a month or so of medicine ( Neuro ) If anyone is interested PM me and I will let you know what I have, and mail it to you if that is legal, otherwise Ill bring the little stock to the Red Cross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertthebruce Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 You have some amazing memories and some great times, you were there from the start to the end... He will be with you every day, in your heart and soul My heart goes out to you, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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