Going Back to Nothing and Nobody.

[catweazle]

I feel this story is the best evidence to verify the saying (or should I better say - natural law) of, "What goes around, comes around"...

Equally suitable to this story would be the saying, "You can't polish a turd"...

The perfect time for your "friend" to sit back and reflect on his past life and all the people in help he ignored, the chances he flunked, the promises he did not keep, the shortcuts he took, the rides on other peoples' backs he took, the responsibilities he refused to face, the love he failed to give, the "THANK YOUs" he failed to say, the love he forgot to invest...

With 63 years under his belt, he's not too old to make a change - this change has to come from the inside, he himself is the only person who can help him. The best help you can give "your friend" is to leave him to his own devices and let life teach him how to tackle problems that HE ALONE is responsible for!

Better give the 20k for his overstay to a home for mentally challenged kids in Thailand, a school for Burmese workers' kids or something else useful.

[Donnievino]

Of all the posts I cannot believe that only one suggested getting a job. Unless he has some physical impairment he should be able to work and straighten out his life. Does the European and UK social welfare systems completely ignore personal responsibility as a virtue.

[Pralaad]

Of all the posts I cannot believe that only one suggested getting a job. Unless he has some physical impairment he should be able to work and straighten out his life. Does the European and UK social welfare systems completely ignore personal responsibility as a virtue.

63 years old is not exactly the most desirable age for employers especially 63 year olds with no address

[digibum]

Let me get this right. You actually saying and believe banks would not raise fees if no one defaulted on their payments?

You actually believe fees are raised because of unpaid debts? and not because of banks reckless gambling and investments?

Do enlighten me what was/is fraudulent? That he used his credit cards, but was unable to pay? You trying to say people who have money use credit cards?

People start businesses and fail, people loose jobs and can not pay, people have emergency's and can not pay, there is absolutely nothing fraudulent about that.

The only crime here is the bank which charges 22%-30% in interest and then also adds penalties if you late on payment.

Credit cards are unsecured loans, hence the interest 10-20 times the official interest rate.

It's all about risk management. Banks lend money (via credit cards and other loans) first to make a profit above and beyond the cost of borrowing funds. The act of loaning money has to be reasonably profitable or nobody would do it. Just like any business, you wouldn't risk your time or your money for a poor return.

For credit card issuers, they make their money on the difference between what they can borrow money at and what they charge the consumer (aka the net interest margin). A large bank can borrow money relatively cheaply, say at 0.05%. They then lend the money to you at a rate of 14.99%.

While the 14.94% difference might seem like a lot, one also has to factor in the cost of running the business. This is their gross profit margin. So, they pay for call centers to answer your questions, they pay for marketing to tell you about their credit cards, they pay for issuing you cards and sending you statements, etc, etc, etc.

You also have to factor in that about 5% of credit card loans default (this has been as high as 9% in recent times). That takes the gross profit margin down to 9.94% (roughly). That's not even counting the out and out credit card fraud via identity theft. That's just bad debt where the borrower can't pay back the loan. When you add in all of the expenses of running the actual business (which I mentioned in the previous paragraph), banks are not making an egregious amount of money on these loans.

This is why banks pass along the cost of credit card bad debt and fraud and bad debt back to consumers. So when we get charged 18%, 19% or 20%+ on credit cards it's because the bank is funneling back those costs to consumers in the form of higher interest rates.

I'm not defending predatory banks or even banks in general. I'm just explaining how banks work. I think banks pull a lot of evil stuff (fees) to maximize those margins so I don't necessarily feel sorry for them but at the end of the day, they're simply passing along the cost of bad debt to the consumers so it's somewhat difficult to feel sympathy towards a guy who is causing me to have a higher interest rate.

[Pattaya Pat]

I really do think that I need to unsubscribe from these news feeds emails.

Some very odd people on these boards.

[Pralaad]

Let me get this right. You actually saying and believe banks would not raise fees if no one defaulted on their payments?

You actually believe fees are raised because of unpaid debts? and not because of banks reckless gambling and investments?

Do enlighten me what was/is fraudulent? That he used his credit cards, but was unable to pay? You trying to say people who have money use credit cards?

People start businesses and fail, people loose jobs and can not pay, people have emergency's and can not pay, there is absolutely nothing fraudulent about that.

The only crime here is the bank which charges 22%-30% in interest and then also adds penalties if you late on payment.

Credit cards are unsecured loans, hence the interest 10-20 times the official interest rate.

It's all about risk management. Banks lend money (via credit cards and other loans) first to make a profit above and beyond the cost of borrowing funds. The act of loaning money has to be reasonably profitable or nobody would do it. Just like any business, you wouldn't risk your time or your money for a poor return.

For credit card issuers, they make their money on the difference between what they can borrow money at and what they charge the consumer (aka the net interest margin). A large bank can borrow money relatively cheaply, say at 0.05%. They then lend the money to you at a rate of 14.99%.

While the 14.94% difference might seem like a lot, one also has to factor in the cost of running the business. This is their gross profit margin. So, they pay for call centers to answer your questions, they pay for marketing to tell you about their credit cards, they pay for issuing you cards and sending you statements, etc, etc, etc.

You also have to factor in that about 5% of credit card loans default (this has been as high as 9% in recent times). That takes the gross profit margin down to 9.94% (roughly). That's not even counting the out and out credit card fraud via identity theft. That's just bad debt where the borrower can't pay back the loan. When you add in all of the expenses of running the actual business (which I mentioned in the previous paragraph), banks are not making an egregious amount of money on these loans.

This is why banks pass along the cost of credit card bad debt and fraud and bad debt back to consumers. So when we get charged 18%, 19% or 20%+ on credit cards it's because the bank is funneling back those costs to consumers in the form of higher interest rates.

I'm not defending predatory banks or even banks in general. I'm just explaining how banks work. I think banks pull a lot of evil stuff (fees) to maximize those margins so I don't necessarily feel sorry for them but at the end of the day, they're simply passing along the cost of bad debt to the consumers so it's somewhat difficult to feel sympathy towards a guy who is causing me to have a higher interest rate.

Yep, you are partly correct,

They have this rates NOT because of bad debts, but because it is an unsecured loans, so if people fail to pay, they still recover if not all, then most of the money.

Credit card interest rates move accordingly/along with reserve bank interest rates, credit card rates do not just increase without official rate increase, so it is safe to assume credit card rates are not affected by the bad debt but by the official interest rates.

[Jip99]

Let me get this right. You actually saying and believe banks would not raise fees if no one defaulted on their payments?

You actually believe fees are raised because of unpaid debts? and not because of banks reckless gambling and investments?

Do enlighten me what was/is fraudulent? That he used his credit cards, but was unable to pay? You trying to say people who have money use credit cards?

People start businesses and fail, people loose jobs and can not pay, people have emergency's and can not pay, there is absolutely nothing fraudulent about that.

The only crime here is the bank which charges 22%-30% in interest and then also adds penalties if you late on payment.

Credit cards are unsecured loans, hence the interest 10-20 times the official interest rate.

It's all about risk management. Banks lend money (via credit cards and other loans) first to make a profit above and beyond the cost of borrowing funds. The act of loaning money has to be reasonably profitable or nobody would do it. Just like any business, you wouldn't risk your time or your money for a poor return.

For credit card issuers, they make their money on the difference between what they can borrow money at and what they charge the consumer (aka the net interest margin). A large bank can borrow money relatively cheaply, say at 0.05%. They then lend the money to you at a rate of 14.99%.

While the 14.94% difference might seem like a lot, one also has to factor in the cost of running the business. This is their gross profit margin. So, they pay for call centers to answer your questions, they pay for marketing to tell you about their credit cards, they pay for issuing you cards and sending you statements, etc, etc, etc.

You also have to factor in that about 5% of credit card loans default (this has been as high as 9% in recent times). That takes the gross profit margin down to 9.94% (roughly). That's not even counting the out and out credit card fraud via identity theft. That's just bad debt where the borrower can't pay back the loan. When you add in all of the expenses of running the actual business (which I mentioned in the previous paragraph), banks are not making an egregious amount of money on these loans.

This is why banks pass along the cost of credit card bad debt and fraud and bad debt back to consumers. So when we get charged 18%, 19% or 20%+ on credit cards it's because the bank is funneling back those costs to consumers in the form of higher interest rates.

I'm not defending predatory banks or even banks in general. I'm just explaining how banks work. I think banks pull a lot of evil stuff (fees) to maximize those margins so I don't necessarily feel sorry for them but at the end of the day, they're simply passing along the cost of bad debt to the consumers so it's somewhat difficult to feel sympathy towards a guy who is causing me to have a higher interest rate.

Yep, you are partly correct,

They have this rates NOT because of bad debts, but because it is an unsecured loans, so if people fail to pay, they still recover if not all, then most of the money.

Credit card interest rates move accordingly/along with reserve bank interest rates, credit card rates do not just increase without official rate increase, so it is safe to assume credit card rates are not affected by the bad debt but by the official interest rates.

Yep - you are wrong.

Credit card rates are totally independent - which is why you will see different rates from different card providers.

digibum is spot on, bad debts are priced in. If the rate of bad debt increases then the rates go up - the bad debt premium as referred to by the Met police.

With normal bank lending the provision for bad debt (ie the costs that digibum referred to) was always in the region of 0.3% of the lending book.

ALL lending rates are affected by bad debt s - if you learn nothing else today, learn that.

[daveAustin]

He could always join the Pattaya high fliers club.

[beautifulthailand99]

If he would sober up and face up to what he has become then there would be some chance of him getting out of his rut - he is expecting charity and kindness when he seems to have given little in his life. Some religious organizations may want to help but he will find himself with little to fall back on once he's back in blighty.

[BangPaInn]

I've read hundreds of these sorts of stories on TV.... I'm just struggling to get my head around how you can end up in such a shitty situation

[beautifulthailand99]

I've read hundreds of these sorts of stories on TV.... I'm just struggling to get my head around how you can end up in such a shitty situation

You make your bed and then have to lie in it I'm afraid. Have met quite a few chaps on bar stools that are working there way through a windfall/house sale/ retirement pay off / savings who are coming to the end of the bounty. Plenty of ladies who will help you spend that money on the way. If he had made real friends or given something back I'm sure there would have been farang or Thai who would have helped him in some way but it doesn't look that way from the information we've been given. It's good that the OP has helped out in some way if true/

[donniereadit]

I'll address this from a USA standpoint, since I'm not familiar with the UK.

The US does not have debters prisons. What that means is that past debt does not matter if you don't have assets to seize. Non-issue, don't worry about it.

So your paying cash for everything, and also have everyone looking at your credit report and refusing jobs, housing and everything else for the most part for years to come.

In other words, homeless, living foot to mouth.

Most social services have a lengthy process and/or others who are in line waiting.

What I'm saying here is that once he gets off the plane, it's hit the city, walking or hitch hiking, or simply getting a taxi and not paying the fare. Once on the tarmac you look for shelter that's relatively safe, with other homeless is the best bet. Some may take you in, if not you sleep by an encampment, or if not under a bridge etc. If you can hit some homeless shelters you may get lucky and find a bed and a meal (for one night) before you are kicked out the next morning. Wash and repeat. There may be some social workers there who can help hook you up with things if your sober.

After that, you can panhandle for food money, and look for odd under the table jobs, find out where the soup kitchens are. Everyone else already hit these but you can try to keep your spirits up. If you start turning to booze or drugs (very likely) it's down hill from there. You likely turn to crime and petty theft, or you give up, keep sleeping under the bridge and basically commit suicide.

The best thing to do straight off is to find other homeless people and band together. They will know where the food is, where to sleep to keep safe, ins and outs etc. Make friends fast you will need them. Some start doing petty thefts and go in and out of the jails to get food and medical care regularly. Not a bad option. If you do something more serious you goto prison. It's so bad there it's not worth risking. Better to face the homelessness.

He should have tried some teaching English jobs before getting that low and just drop living expenses to rock bottom like the Thais who live in the corrugated housing. Not pretty, but it is livable. You have to have some self-esteem and confidence to work it though. Sounds like this guy has been beat for a long time and just gave up.

If you getting down below $10k and dipping in, I would say it's time to bail back to your home country and see what you can do. Buy an RV or something to sleep in and work the welfare/food stamp angle. Even an alcoholic should see the writing on the wall, unless they are willing to just go belly up.

[balo]

I'm not sure about the UK system but if he was a Norwegian citizen life would be easy , if you lost everything in Thailand and have nothing back home, just do a crime and get arrested, go to prison for a few months and you're back in the best welfare system in Europe. Everything will be provided for you.

All you need is a Norwegian passport.

I might try this solution one day if I really lose everything .

[benalibina]

I'm not sure about the UK system but if he was a Norwegian citizen life would be easy , if you lost everything in Thailand and have nothing back home, just do a crime and get arrested, go to prison for a few months and you're back in the best welfare system in Europe. Everything will be provided for you.

All you need is a Norwegian passport.

I might try this solution one day if I really lose everything .

On your way.....ur last sentence....hope not though

[farang000999]

The OP is a habitual troll. No way this story is at all true.

[rhodie]

OP, I think he is better off if you and his mates help him get sober and back on his feet over here. He has no chance in the UK given the state he is in.

Man up and help your mate!

[Skint]

Sounds like the guy was like many who come here with a story to hide, so what if he ran up debt at least he left and enjoyed the cash in the sun rather than burning it on the horse racing back home.

He can return to the uk as the government will help him given they will do it for non nationals I can't see why they wouldn't.

[myanmar123]

Every foreigner going to thailand to hopefully stay should be forced to read this at least 1000 times before leaving for the airport.

When they get to the airport they should be forced to read it 1000 times again.

A common theme but when will we learn!! We are all capable of ending up like this, even the I am amazing brigade!!!!

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[kjhbigv]

Why would you want to wish good luck to a common thief and fraudster.

There is no badge of honour in screwing credit card companies for a debt that the rest of us honest citizens finish up paying for.

People like this are irresponsible and the dregs of society.

He must be very proud that after 63 years of his life he cannot afford a pot to p!ss in.

Please do tell how and why an honest citizen like yourself would pay for his credit card debt??

Banks write bad debts off , they certainly do not split it between bank account holders.

Considering interest rates they charge for credit cards, there is a very good chance credit was paid in full or almost in full , the rest is interest.

And even he he did not make 1 single payment, banks loose or make billions daily, so the 20k debt really does not even get noticed in a big picture

I mean really, do some people ever think before they post or just vomit out whatever hits the brain?

Now back to OP, nothing to worry about unpaid debts, not to mention if debts were accumulated some years ago credit may already be clean as most countries put you on bad credit rating for 5-7 years.

Naturally he would be better off back in UK because UK has a social welfare system , healthcare etc.

In Thailand he has nothing and health will only get worse, so having free medical would most certainly help.

Are you REALLY that naiive ?

Any business, banks or otherwise, pass on their losses to customers. Customers ALWAYS pay at the end of the day. Losses are factored into operating costs - if those costs go up (eg by fraudent actions such as this guy) then those costs are factored into charges. Has it not occured to you that if everyone played the white man then interest rates and other charges might be lower ?

I am amazed how many people try and justify theft by credit card

Let me get this right. You actually saying and believe banks would not raise fees if no one defaulted on their payments?

You actually believe fees are raised because of unpaid debts? and not because of banks reckless gambling and investments?

Do enlighten me what was/is fraudulent? That he used his credit cards, but was unable to pay? You trying to say people who have money use credit cards?

People start businesses and fail, people loose jobs and can not pay, people have emergency's and can not pay, there is absolutely nothing fraudulent about that.

The only crime here is the bank which charges 22%-30% in interest and then also adds penalties if you late on payment.

Credit cards are unsecured loans, hence the interest 10-20 times the official interest rate.

Go read the Theft Act 1968.

Surely would be hard to prove as theft! The debt is long gone anyway!

As for the banks/lenders, pah, I worked for mortgage lenders for 23 years. Be in no doubt, we were there to maximise every penny out of the consumer, someone had to pay our bonuses!

Just look at how quickly they reduce rates when the BOE reduces bank base rate!

The Bankers have the government in their pockets....they do whatever they like and will continue to do so!

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[jacko45k]

H e will need to get to the benefits office and sign on. Not much else he can do really, or maybe the novel idea of getting a job.

He could probably work in a bar if previous experience is an asset!

I would be concerned about him getting on the plane if he has 20k in his pocket!

I wonder if the Samaritans would be prepared to help him.

[kurnell]

Get hima ajob teaching Thai kids. Similar ethics, so it shoudl work out.

[Gracas]

Sounds like it is cheaper for the OP and his mates to just buy this guy a one-way ticket out instead of giving him handouts / pay his bar bill every week.

Some have mentioned that he should get a job, but after 18 years or whatever it was of resting I would think that he does not have any usable skills.

[geronimo]

He is far better to become a Buddhist monk in Thailand and live in the monastery. Not only will he enjoy his new life, he will also rid himself of the alcohol problem (which has probably caused all his suffering)

All he needs is the desire to live a new life. I am sure he can muster that up, especially if his only other choice is the UK!

[Eloelo]

I think it is a sorry state to be in but then again not everyone can be a genius and have there life work out properly it doesn't take long for the slippery slope to appear. a business goes bad a divorce demands from children about a helping hand, loss of a job all can impact severely on your resources ,this man whether or not is a good guy or a bad guy is not in a nice position fortunately the western system will help to some degree and let him live his life in moderate circumstances the sad part is the mentioning of him having no where to go and no one to see.a little compassion for this man would be better than berating him for being a failure, I hope he gets the care and has many years left to hopefully enjoy what is obviously going to be a lonely road..

[BoogerRed]

Get a job, sir!

Sent from my iPhone using The BoogerRed ExpressNet

[sirchai]

By reading your OP.....and your many previous 1's.......inconsiderate people are only willing help inconsiderate people, springs to mind.......

Better you try to help ....with your friends....Tia Pugh....or other young children in need in Thailand

yeah sad innit...circa 50k baht for a drunk to get home.....but a dying child ?....zip

In fairness, I think 25,000 Baht will cover it.

Unless they were thinking of sending him back first class.

Cheapest one way direct, gotta make sure he gets off in London and not do his Air Rage with a break in Moscow or the Middle East !!

Might be a great idea to buy a ticket for Moscow only. He'll think he's at home, nobody puts him in jail, nobody pickpockets his credit card.

To get to the point. A thief is a thief. When you rip off banks it seems that you only hit the rich, Mr. Robin Hood.

The truth is that we the "good ones" have to pay for all that fraud that has been and will be committed.

I donate a big bottle of Lao Khao for your friend. You know that it will never happen that you pay for his overstay, nor parts of a ticket. Do you?

[Signature2013]

After a very good run in Thailand this drunk and thief needs to get his act together and stop feeling sorry for himself. Remember mate YOU made a mess of it so stop feeling sorry for yourself and p*** o** home. Don't come the "I don't know anybody in the UK" routine, that's the first thing the authorities will ask you and don't think you'll get a nice pat on the shoulder and a car waiting to take you to a nice gaff. The authorities will be desperate to unload you. As for the credit cards, yes maybe you'll never pay the money back but there are no limitations on fraud in the UK.......you're going down mate once your name pops up on a computer somewhere.

[nycjoe]

I know a guy from the UK, , he has nothing back in the U.K., after some disastrous relationships a failed Bar business and a severe alcohol problem, he has nothing here either.

He would be better off in the UK for sure but he is scared to go back as he has nothing or nobody back there, plus he took out unsecured bank loans maxed out his credit cards etc before he left UK, he has been in Thailand for 15 years and is 63 years old.

A few friends and I are willing to buy his ticket back to UK and give the 20,000 Baht for his overstay.

He's worried about what he will do when he gets to Heathrow, does anybody have knowledge of a scenario such as this ?

I've suggested he do a spot of Air Rage and get arrested at the airport on Arrival, he's a nasty drunk so should be easy, he'll get arrested straight off the plane, go to court and get prison time, but, he'll be straight back in the system and be able to get help immediately, get sorted out, medical check, get on benefits etc whilst in Prison.

He won't get arrested for Credit Card fraud and as its been too long, he got just about every Credit Card Possible and took cash advances just before leaving, so it was Fraudulent, but after a period of time, it's off the books.

It's probably not the best idea, but I don't know other alternatives, he's gonna arrive with some pocket money, about 50 Pounds, that's all, and he has no idea where to go or what to do, he has no Family to help him, and nobody else.

There must have been many guys going back to the UK with nothing over the years, is there help available at Heathrow airport ?

Happy, joyous and free

[nycjoe]

Oops. Started out bad ended up the same. I guess it's better to use other peoples money to muck up your life. It reads like a tragedy from start to finish.

Happy, joyous and free

[uptheos]

A sad story,but i am not sure about this off the books with the credit card thing,mind you if he has no money they can't get any i spose,what else can he do,live on the beach in Pattaya,going back is the best option,he is lucky he has freinds like you who are willing to help,really don't know why people open bars here,they always seem to fail.

Money owed on credit cards or loans from banks or finance companies are unsecured debts. If six or more years pass without a payment, the statute of limitations kicks in and the debt is unenforceable. The Limitation Act prevents collection of these debts after six years of non-payment as long as the creditor doesn't have a judgment against the person who borrowed the money, and the person hasn't written to the creditor in those six years acknowledging the debt. Any bad credit reports should also be wiped off Credit Agencies files, but I don't trust these buggers to do it, so chasing them and threatening to report them to TSO also stands.

Some agencies buy these non collectible debts for pennies and issue threats, In such cases inform The Trading Standards Office and tell the police that you are living in fear. If contacted by one of these scum outfits, say nothing, try and get a recording if they phone you etc.