CRACKDOWN only affects SAME-DAY exit and return

[Suradit69]

Those who are "stranded" at the border "not allowed to exit Thailand"; it's not true.

They can exit, they just can't turn around and come right back in.

There are apparently border crossings into Myanmar where foreigners cannot proceed further into Myanmar. In other words, for foreigners, the only reason they would have for leaving Thailand at that point would be to turn around and come back into Thailand. So, at those borders people are not allowed to exit without a visa or re-entry permit because they would not be allowed to re-enter Thailand again on serial 30/15 day visa exemptions.

The reason they are not being allowed to exit is that they would end up in limbo because they could not re-enter Thailand and would be unable to travel on in Burma.

[phuketrichard]

Going by the back-to-back definition with no defined time out of the country, the other foreigners that will will be severely affected will be all those people living in Laos, Cambodia etc who make regular trips into Thailand for shopping etc. I am sure they won't be too happy to make visa applications to do a few hours shopping in Big C!

this; 1. Entry shall be refused in case of "Out-In" in the form of a "Visa run" in order to extend the right to remain in the Kingdom for purposes other than tourism.

i am sure if u hold a 1 year cambodian multi entry visa they will allow u unlimited visa exempt entries as long as your living in Cambodia and they can see that as your only remaining in thailand a day or two, same will hold for those residing in laos and only using Thailand to get a new 30 days visa for laos.

at the end of the day it will be whatever immigration, when u enter by land, wants to do

Edited May 11, 2014 by phuketrichard

[Maroon Watcher]

Can anyone update ASEAN Members rules -

Philippine People who are here to visit partner/fiance/friends and "look" for work...

A friend of a friend (Really) is worried ...

Edited May 11, 2014 by Maroon Watcher

[NoshowJones]

How many days will you get at a Thai land border without a visa?

Starting November 1st, 2013, if you enter Thailand via a land border and you are a citizen of the United States, United Kingdom, France, Italy, Germany, Japan or Canada (the G7 countries), you will receive an automatic 30 days in Thailand without the need for any visa.

If you are a citizen of Brazil, Chile, Peru, South Korea, or Argentina, you will fare even better as you'll be stamped into Thailand for 90 days. A citizen from most other countries, however, and you will be worse off, with only a 15 day stamp put into your passport.

How many times can you get 15, 30 or 90 days at a Thai land border?

According to the Thailand Immigration Bureau, the number of times you can cross a land border into Thailand and be given 15, 30 or 90 days in Thailand is now unlimited.

That means, if you are an American or British citizen, for instance, and you decide to do a visa run every month while traveling around Thailand, you can do so indefinitely. Years, it now seems.

SO all this has been changed already?

Thai Immigration offices do as they please, and it is whether the IO gets out of bed on the wrong side or not that will decide how many times you will keep on getting 30 days every month ( if you are from a G7 country) at a land border or not.

[NoshowJones]

I am NOT an expert and this is a new situation, but as I interpret the new rule, it is the fact that you entered one time into Thailand on a visa free (30 day no visa) entry and then attempted to re-enter Thailand on another back-to-back visa free (30 day no visa) entry that is now not allowed.

As I understand it that is irrelevant of how long you stay out of Thailand.

It's that back-to-back visa free entry thing that is now not allowed .... at least by land entries at this time.

As I understand it, you will need at least a tourist visa for at least one of those back-to-back entries now with this new ruling.

But again I am NOT an expert, and this is a new situation just starting.to develop.

That's not my idea of back-to-back. My thought is that back-to-back applies to the person who goes to the border at say, Sadao, stamps out of Thailand, stamps in and out of Malaysia, then immediately stamps right back into Thailand. I would think that after a certain amount of time spent in the other country, the Thai entries are no longer considered back-to-back.

But I'm not an expert either and who knows for sure at this point...?

Nobody is an expert on Thai Immigration, some will do this and some won't, is the mentality, but Ubon Joe sure comes close.

[DrTuner]

If there is no time limit, tourists who visit Thailand twice in their lifetime with decades in between would be denied the second entry. I reckon this will be another mess with threads on how long you have to stay outside before you get your stamp again.

[biggles45]

"But a large protion of them are only going for the day and come back, they do not stay permanently in Thailand and are not affected.."

Not so, I know many filipinos in Pattaya who do a regular one day border run. Some have been here many years and they will be affected as there is no difference between the Visa Free rules for them and for westerners. However, if they get a Thai tourist visa in say the Thai Embassy in Manila (and I presume other embassies) they do not pay a fee as part of an ASEAN agreement.

Edited May 11, 2014 by biggles45

[sotsira]

My friends and relatives from the UK visit Thailand on a yearly basis, sometimes twice a year.

They never stay for longer than 30 days, hence always arrive without visas.

Does this mean after 12th August they will need to obtain visas for every second visit to Thailand?

Even though it's for less than 30 days.

[phuketrichard]

a friend of mine works in Burma and holds a valid wp. He still needs to leave every 90 days and fly's in and out of Bangkok ( usually stays a day or two)

so assume he will be allowed mutl visa exempts as it is quite obvious he is NOT abusing the system .

THis is only aimed at those that do an i for one think it is a good thing.

[ubonjoe]

Can anyone update ASEAN Members rules -

Philippine People who are here to visit partner/fiance/friends and "look" for work...

A friend of a friend (Really) is worried ...

There is no ASEAN rules. It is different for each country.

Those from the Philippines are under the same visa exempt entry rules as other countries and only get 15 day entries at a border crossing.

They will have to go out for tourist visas if they want to stay here for an extended period of time. No more border runs for a 15 day entry.

[ubonjoe]

My friends and relatives from the UK visit Thailand on a yearly basis, sometimes twice a year.

They never stay for longer than 30 days, hence always arrive without visas.

Does this mean after 12th August they will need to obtain visas for every second visit to Thailand?

Even though it's for less than 30 days.

They will not have a problem The rules say no more out and in again.

[elzach]

"But a large protion of them are only going for the day and come back, they do not stay permanently in Thailand and are not affected.."

Not so, I know many filipinos in Pattaya who do a regular one day border run. Some have been here many years and they will be affected as there is no difference between the Visa Free rules for them and for westerners. However, if they get a Thai tourist visa in say the Thai Embassy in Manila (and I presume other embassies) they do not pay a fee as part of an ASEAN agreement.

I would say NO Filipino here is on a tourist visa from the Manila Thai Consulate.

That's probably the "toughest" consulate in Asia to get a tourist visa from: Round-trip ticket, proof of finances (for Filipinos at least), hotel booking (I kid you not).

[belg]

ASEAN on the front door, and thailand likes to go back a few decades

[ubonjoe]

ASEAN on the front door, and thailand likes to go back a few decades

ASEAN has been around since the 1960's. Nothing new there.

If you mean the AEC it will change nothing as far as visas go.

These new rules mean nothing unless you are trying to stay here on on visa exempt entries forever.

[Suradit69]

I agree with Craig, "According to the Thailand Immigration Bureau, the number of times you can cross a land border into Thailand and be given 15, 30 or 90 days in Thailand is now unlimited."

Does anyone know when and why this was changed? Although this doesn't effect me as I'm now on non O retirement extension, I have done countless trips to the border in the past using the stamp out, stamp in, stamp out, stamp in procedure, all within minutes!

A few times I was asked by the Malay officials where I am going to which I just smiled and said straight back to Thailand...never never was this objected to by Malay or Thai immigration and NEVER was I told this was incorrect practise so always assumed it to be perfectly legal.

One more thought, how long do you think it will be before the financial requirement for Non O will be increased to say, 1 million or more? Going by this latest development, it could well happen.

"Does anyone know when and why this was changed?"

I think you answered your own question.

" I have done countless trips to the border in the past using the stamp out, stamp in, stamp out, stamp in procedure, "

One more thought, how long do you think it will be before the financial requirement for Non O will be increased to say, 1 million or more? Going by this latest development, it could well happen.

You don't have a non-o visa, you have an extension of stay. What may happen is that there will be increased proof of income required. This ruling about crossing borders has come into effect because of abuse of the privilege ("I have done countless trips to the border ") not because they wanted to change the purpose of the 30 day exemption. People are not abusing the Baht 800,000 requirement, but they are in some cases falsely claiming income they don't really have ... and some are abusing the 90 day report requirement and the overstay issue and the student visa purpose ...

Edited May 11, 2014 by Suradit69

[SanukJoeII]

Let's say that I have just been on a border hop. I am now on a 30 day visa exempt entry.

I then go to immigration and extend by 60 days for reason of being married to a Thai lady.

Can I go out again? Technically speaking I have not had back to back entries.

I think you can only extend a visa or an extension of stay. You cannot extend a "permit to stay 15 or 30 days".

If married to a Thai, why not get a proper visa at some Thai embassy, maybe even double entry. Keeps you hassle-free for 120 days (with one allowed border crossing after 60 days).

The rules were not relaxed last year, just 7 countries got 30 days, all others still 15 days.

I think when it was 15 days for all there were more real visas and less border runs.

Still it is no reason to complain: Ever tried to get into Schengen, UK, USA, without a visa? But Thailand has that: no visa required on forehand, when a tourist arrives he automatically gets a visa for the duration of his stay. Nice, isn't it?

[BudRight]

Those who are "stranded" at the border "not allowed to exit Thailand"; it's not true.

They can exit, they just can't turn around and come right back in.

There are apparently border crossings into Myanmar where foreigners cannot proceed further into Myanmar. In other words, for foreigners, the only reason they would have for leaving Thailand at that point would be to turn around and come back into Thailand. So, at those borders people are not allowed to exit without a visa or re-entry permit because they would not be allowed to re-enter Thailand again on serial 30/15 day visa exemptions.

The reason they are not being allowed to exit is that they would end up in limbo because they could not re-enter Thailand and would be unable to travel on in Burma.

I am impressed that this makes sense to you. What if the individual wishes merely to visit the town in Myanmar? These towns are going to be really screwed (by both the Thai and Myanmar governments) if restrictions against further travel are not relaxed.

[PoorSucker]

Let's say that I have just been on a border hop. I am now on a 30 day visa exempt entry.

I then go to immigration and extend by 60 days for reason of being married to a Thai lady.

Can I go out again? Technically speaking I have not had back to back entries.

I think you can only extend a visa or an extension of stay. You cannot extend a "permit to stay 15 or 30 days".

If married to a Thai, why not get a proper visa at some Thai embassy, maybe even double entry. Keeps you hassle-free for 120 days (with one allowed border crossing after 60 days).

The rules were not relaxed last year, just 7 countries got 30 days, all others still 15 days.

I think when it was 15 days for all there were more real visas and less border runs.

Still it is no reason to complain: Ever tried to get into Schengen, UK, USA, without a visa? But Thailand has that: no visa required on forehand, when a tourist arrives he automatically gets a visa for the duration of his stay. Nice, isn't it?

You can extend a permission of stay 15 or 30 days with 60 days if you are married.

From Police order 777/2551

2.24 In the case of an alien visiting a Thai spouse or child:

Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 60 days at a time.

(1) Proof of relationship.

(2) In the case of a spouse, their marital relationship shall be de jure (legitimate) and de facto.

The police order do not mention any visa as a pre-request as the 1 year extension.

[sandyf]

How many days will you get at a Thai land border without a visa?

Starting November 1st, 2013, if you enter Thailand via a land border and you are a citizen of the United States, United Kingdom, France, Italy, Germany, Japan or Canada (the G7 countries), you will receive an automatic 30 days in Thailand without the need for any visa.

If you are a citizen of Brazil, Chile, Peru, South Korea, or Argentina, you will fare even better as you'll be stamped into Thailand for 90 days. A citizen from most other countries, however, and you will be worse off, with only a 15 day stamp put into your passport.

How many times can you get 15, 30 or 90 days at a Thai land border?

According to the Thailand Immigration Bureau, the number of times you can cross a land border into Thailand and be given 15, 30 or 90 days in Thailand is now unlimited.

That means, if you are an American or British citizen, for instance, and you decide to do a visa run every month while traveling around Thailand, you can do so indefinitely. Years, it now seems.

SO all this has been changed already?

This is dated Jan 2014 from the Hull Consulate website and applies to the normal list of 48 countries.

Tourist Visa Exemption

Passport holders of the countries listed below are not required to obtain a visa when entering Thailand on an international flight for tourism purposes provided their stay in Thailand does not exceed 30 days. If such foreigners enter Thailand at Immigration Checkpoints which border neighbouring countries (overland crossing), they will be allowed to stay for only 15 days each time

[sandyf]

Thai Embassy has this to say on the subject.

Tourist Visa Exemption

Passport holders of the countries listed below are not required to obtain a visa when entering Thailand for tourism purposes and will be permitted to stay in Thailand for a period not exceeding 30 days on each visit. If such foreigners enter Thailand at immigration checkpoints, which border neighbouring countries (overland crossing), they will be allowed to stay for 15 days each time. The exemption to this is Malaysian nationals crossing overland from Malaysia who are granted a period of stay not exceeding 30 days each time.

Foreigners who enter Thailand under the Tourist Visa Exemption category and would like to leave and
re-enter may only stay for a cumulative duration, which does not exceed 90 days and is within a 6-month period from the date of first entry. (Passport or travel document must be valid for at least 6 months after the date of first entry).

Foreigners entering Thailand under the Tourist Visa Exemption category must provide proof of adequate finances for the duration of stay in Thailand at the port of entry (i.e., traveller’s cheque or cash equivalent to 10,000 Baht per person and 20,000 Baht per family).

Foreigners entering Thailand by any means under the Tourist Visa Exemption category are required at the port of entry to have proof of onward travel (confirmed air, train, bus or boat tickets) to leave Thailand within 30 days of the arrival date (otherwise a tourist visa must be obtained).

Please note that Tourist Visa Exemption only applies to foreigners holding passports issued by the countries listed below. Travel documents for aliens issued by these countries are not acceptable.

It would also appear that there has been no change to "Visa Exemption" since 2005, nothing about Nov 2013 and G7 countries.

According to the Interior Ministerial Announcements dated 1 October B.E. 2545 (2002), 20 December B.E. 2545 (2002), 18 October B.E. 2547 (2004) and 6 May B.E. 2548 (2005), passport holders from 41 countries and 1 special administrative region - Hong Kong SAR - are not required to obtain a visa when entering Thailand for tourism purposes and will be permitted to stay in Thailand for a period not exceeding 30 days on each visit. If such foreigners enter Thailand at immigration checkpoints which border neighbouring countries (overland crossing), they will be allowed to stay for 15 days each time. The exemption to this is Malaysian nationals crossing overland from Malaysia who are granted a period of stay not exceeding 30 days each time.

Edited May 11, 2014 by sandyf

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

It's kind of pointless for people to keep posting PAST statements regarding Thai Immigration's policy on visa exempt entries...

There have been a multitude of policies over the years with different rules and interpretations. But the thing they all share is... they're all in the PAST.

There's now, apparently, a NEW policy, and it's going to take some time to shake out just how it's going to be enforced.

It's seemingly clear that the past days of unlimited back-to-back visa-exempt entries are gone -- at least for now.

What's not clear at all, however, is just how Thai Immigration is going to enforce their latest prohibition against back-to-back visa exempt entries for purposes other than tourism.

Does that mean it's OK if you get a tourist visa or non-O visiting the wife visa inbetween? How about if you stay in the adjoining country for a week instead of trying to return to Thailand the same day. How about if you only do visa-exempt entries between B visas that have expired? These are the questions for which no one has answers right now.

And of course there's always the familiar -- will the new policy be enforced one way at some border crossing and entirely differently at other crossings?

Edited May 11, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[slipperylobster]

How many days will you get at a Thai land border without a visa?

Starting November 1st, 2013, if you enter Thailand via a land border and you are a citizen of the United States, United Kingdom, France, Italy, Germany, Japan or Canada (the G7 countries), you will receive an automatic 30 days in Thailand without the need for any visa.

If you are a citizen of Brazil, Chile, Peru, South Korea, or Argentina, you will fare even better as you'll be stamped into Thailand for 90 days. A citizen from most other countries, however, and you will be worse off, with only a 15 day stamp put into your passport.

How many times can you get 15, 30 or 90 days at a Thai land border?

According to the Thailand Immigration Bureau, the number of times you can cross a land border into Thailand and be given 15, 30 or 90 days in Thailand is now unlimited.

That means, if you are an American or British citizen, for instance, and you decide to do a visa run every month while traveling around Thailand, you can do so indefinitely. Years, it now seems.

SO all this has been changed already?

Glad you posted that. We obviously "abused" the unlimited part. However, only a well trained dog will refrain from eating the fourth biscuit you lay out for him. In my case, I only had 3 back to backs until I went in and got a double entry. I was waiting on a Fiancee Visa that got shot down (no residence in the USA..only in the Philippines. Next visa they want me to give a residence certificate and proof of income (written on my visa) .. I have both...by the way. I a now wary of staying long time here (thanks to all the advice on ownership issues and having to move alot of money here during this political crises. An example how the innocent can get hurt as well.

[ubonjoe]

Any thing you find on an embassy website is more than likely outdated.or flat wrong.

I have seen nothing official from immigration about the G7 country rule. But there are many people that have been getting 30 day entries from it and will continue to get them as long as they are within the new rules.

[MikeandDow]

How many days will you get at a Thai land border without a visa?

Starting November 1st, 2013, if you enter Thailand via a land border and you are a citizen of the United States, United Kingdom, France, Italy, Germany, Japan or Canada (the G7 countries), you will receive an automatic 30 days in Thailand without the need for any visa.

If you are a citizen of Brazil, Chile, Peru, South Korea, or Argentina, you will fare even better as you'll be stamped into Thailand for 90 days. A citizen from most other countries, however, and you will be worse off, with only a 15 day stamp put into your passport.

How many times can you get 15, 30 or 90 days at a Thai land border?

According to the Thailand Immigration Bureau, the number of times you can cross a land border into Thailand and be given 15, 30 or 90 days in Thailand is now unlimited.

That means, if you are an American or British citizen, for instance, and you decide to do a visa run every month while traveling around Thailand, you can do so indefinitely. Years, it now seems.

SO all this has been changed already?

Glad you posted that. We obviously "abused" the unlimited part. However, only a well trained dog will refrain from eating the fourth biscuit you lay out for him. In my case, I only had 3 back to backs until I went in and got a double entry. I was waiting on a Fiancee Visa that got shot down (no residence in the USA..only in the Philippines. Next visa they want me to give a residence certificate and proof of income (written on my visa) .. I have both...by the way. I a now wary of staying long time here (thanks to all the advice on ownership issues and having to move alot of money here during this political crises. An example how the innocent can get hurt as well.

Don't forget to close the door on your way out, and stop the whinging like it or lump it.

Edited May 11, 2014 by MikeandDow

[sandyf]

Any thing you find on an embassy website is more than likely outdated.or flat wrong.

I have seen nothing official from immigration about the G7 country rule. But there are many people that have been getting 30 day entries from it and will continue to get them as long as they are within the new rules.

Are you suggesting that when they revised the documentation in January, that they only amended the bits that suited them.

[ubonjoe]

Any thing you find on an embassy website is more than likely outdated.or flat wrong.

I have seen nothing official from immigration about the G7 country rule. But there are many people that have been getting 30 day entries from it and will continue to get them as long as they are within the new rules.

Are you suggesting that when they revised the documentation in January, that they only amended the bits that suited them.

I did not say or mean that. There is a good chance that they were unaware of it.

What they have on there is years old anyway there was nothing new.posted.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Part of the problem with that info is the Embassies and Consulates are under the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, which does a pretty poor job of maintaining its websites, whereas Thai Immigration is part of the Royal Thai Police in a different ministry, which does almost as poor a job of maintaining their websites. And if you're actually expecting them to effectively coordinate with each other across ministry lines, good luck!

[swissie]

As long as the in/out is not quantified within a time frame, this issue could well become the number 1 question asked in the "Visa-Forum" for a long time to come.

Especially, since it is in the power of local Immigration- Lords to decide what's in/out and what not !

Cheers

[brewsterbudgen]

Can anyone update ASEAN Members rules -

Philippine People who are here to visit partner/fiance/friends and "look" for work...

A friend of a friend (Really) is worried ...

There is no ASEAN rules. It is different for each country.

Those from the Philippines are under the same visa exempt entry rules as other countries and only get 15 day entries at a border crossing.

They will have to go out for tourist visas if they want to stay here for an extended period of time. No more border runs for a 15 day entry.

Do you know if the rules for Lao citizens have been changed? I know many Lao citizens who have been living legally in Thailand for years on 30-day border runs.

Edited May 11, 2014 by brewsterbudgen

[Mario2008]

1 post removed for trolling/flaming.