Thai Police say no high-level politicians found involved in rice mortgage graft yet

[ableguy]

How about the minister for commerce and his phoney govt to govt sale scam, is that not high enough. Lucky the army are in charge the bib are a joke.

[aimbc]

Many on here wouldn't bother about evidence , procedure, trial. Pronouncements of guilt already made, just move straight to the penalty phase. True proponents of fairness and real democracy.

I think most people see the evidence.

• 1 million farmers not being paid!
• Fake G2G deals.
• The first year of the rice program rice went missing with no explanation.
• Non transparency in the policy.
• Withholding information from the public. Sorry playing stupid and pointing fingers is no excuse for not providing information.
• Government moving the finance auditor who first brought the irregularities.
• There are also formal complaint filed with NACC that has yet been reviewed, but there are some damning information about corruption in the deal.

But let me explain to you about fairness and real democracy. Fairness would have been turning over the paper work for more competent people to review. Fairness is not to lie to the people about the fake G2G deals so that they can get more loans over the set cap. Are all these signs of fairness. And even what you spout as real democracy. I don't even think you are in the ball park on this. Funny you say no one bothered to consider the evidence first, when the govt. withholds information, how can we consider it? Another unfair thing and the most undemocratic action ever. In the USA, you know that would never happen. Subpoena, especially when a project goes over budget.

Sorry, need to go back and look up those two definition again. It is what you do best again, just trying to disseminate information to steer people away from the truth. And the scary part are the likes.

[Chris Lawrence]

The concept of the rice plan was a good one. However changes in world rice markets affected the price offered.

I understand that the information is pointing more to those red culprits. Unfortunately information on the corrupt is still coming in from the yellow angels.

How dare a democratic government develop business relationships outside the respected, trusted in house, local business networks, old-boys, and the Mr 10+ percenters that the Democrats would have developed and dealt with. The Democrats networks have all this catered for, with payments being more anonymous and sophisticated then any program the Pheu Thai party could have developed. Plus any over-payments would have gone to the right people, not Yinglucks crew.

Plus there were more whistle blowers in the civil service keeping their hand on it, that knew when and how to get blown.

Concept a good one Only the really die hard red supporters or those with little gray matter still support it.

- The poorest farmers subsistence farmers never got helped as they did not sell the rice.

- Wealthy big farmers were helped while it was not needed for them

- The moment the program was made public prices of rent for farmland and fertilizer went up

- Rice from other countries got imported

- Major losses were incurred 500 billion (conservative) while a positive result was budgeted

- People who told the truth about the program were bullied and transferred

- GTG deals were faked (proven) and the difference pocketed by the Shins (alleged for now)

- Thailand lost its place as seller of rice

- Quality of rice went down

- Farmers did not get paid on time (even before the problems started)

- Farmers killed themselves because of it

- When the government went into caretaker mode they did not make sure they could keep on paying the farmers (incompetence)

It would have been so much easier and less corruption and less cost to pay farmers by the amount of land they had with a maximum so the poor farmers would have benefited and not the rich ones. This would also not have led to an increase in fertilizer and land costs. However the scam possibility would be so much less so that is why this is not done.

PTP = corruption.

My comment was concept. Similar concepts operate around the world in agriculture. You seem to want to blow any thought that does not fit with your mind set into an attack on one side against the other?

Concept means idea.

I haven't commented on the mechanics of the idea as I do agree there were flaws.

The other factor is that there appears to be this need to hang-em high notion, that is endemic with the elite Thai side of politics. This is an observation on Thai politics.

Sometimes when you step back, question what is happening, you can see the wood for the trees.

[realfunster]

I wouldn't be jumping up and down for joy too much, as the whole world said the same thing about Iraq's WMD's and to this day, there hasn't been any stockpile of any such weapons discovered or uncovered, and in that one you had all the big superpowers "Intelligence" agencies super confident and reeled off hundreds of accounts of where they were, and they were proven to be false

There's no doubt there's irregularities, maybe the NACC can come over to Iraq and find the WMD once they find all the "missing rice/money"

I also doubt that the Police would be "dragging their heels" here either so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss their lack of efficiency as it's been evident this week that General Prayuth has been moving high ranking Policemen from various posts, you think he's going to NOT wish to have this particular case looked at by people he can trust to get the job done?

Talking of Iraq .. What about The Great Australian Wheat Scam... AWB paid Huge kickbacks to Saddam Hussain .. This corruption scandal went all the way to the top of Australian politics ... That case started in 2005 and right until now no-one has been convicted ... That Australia for you... The most corrupt Western country in the whole world... and I see Aussies on here complaining about PTP, Australia makes Thailand look like a novice in the corruption game... John Howard and Thaksin ... same Devil..

Oh no, I think UK takes that title - money laundering capital of the world.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Chris Lawrence]

The concept of the rice plan was a good one. However changes in world rice markets affected the price offered.

I understand that the information is pointing more to those red culprits. Unfortunately information on the corrupt is still coming in from the yellow angels.

How dare a democratic government develop business relationships outside the respected, trusted in house, local business networks, old-boys, and the Mr 10+ percenters that the Democrats would have developed and dealt with. The Democrats networks have all this catered for, with payments being more anonymous and sophisticated then any program the Pheu Thai party could have developed. Plus any over-payments would have gone to the right people, not Yinglucks crew.

Plus there were more whistle blowers in the civil service keeping their hand on it, that knew when and how to get blown.

A good plan? What specific change to the world rice markets are you talking about? Taksin thought he could manipulate the global market for rice as a small percentage of total production is actually traded internationally. He built warehouses to withhold the rice from the market with the stupid hope that the price would go up. Well another failed attempt to corner a market as has been done in silver, etc. IT was a greedily designed devious plan that was doomed to fail from the beginning (check my posts made at the initial announcements). The only the thing the world market did was take advantage of Taksin's stupidity.

What impact did India have on the world rice market when it re-entered the market after 2011? Prior to this they were not selling rice onto the world market.

Have a look at effect this had on variances in world rice markets after this date.

I didn't say plan, I said concept?

What research did you do?

[phutoie2]

Many on here wouldn't bother about evidence , procedure, trial. Pronouncements of guilt already made, just move straight to the penalty phase. True proponents of fairness and real democracy.

I think most people see the evidence.

• 1 million farmers not being paid!
• Fake G2G deals.
• The first year of the rice program rice went missing with no explanation.
• Non transparency in the policy.
• Withholding information from the public. Sorry playing stupid and pointing fingers is no excuse for not providing information.
• Government moving the finance auditor who first brought the irregularities.
• There are also formal complaint filed with NACC that has yet been reviewed, but there are some damning information about corruption in the deal.

But let me explain to you about fairness and real democracy. Fairness would have been turning over the paper work for more competent people to review. Fairness is not to lie to the people about the fake G2G deals so that they can get more loans over the set cap. Are all these signs of fairness. And even what you spout as real democracy. I don't even think you are in the ball park on this. Funny you say no one bothered to consider the evidence first, when the govt. withholds information, how can we consider it? Another unfair thing and the most undemocratic action ever. In the USA, you know that would never happen. Subpoena, especially when a project goes over budget.

Sorry, need to go back and look up those two definition again. It is what you do best again, just trying to disseminate information to steer people away from the truth. And the scary part are the likes.

In the USA,

So sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but this is Thailand, but I first spilt my beer when you wrote " fairness and real democracy".

Not to worry about anything now as the junta will look after us all.

[Thai at Heart]

In reality there was very little 'corruption' in the rice pledging farm subsidy.. the notion that 'it incurred billions in losses' is a joke, it's a subsidy, of course 'it incurs losses'.. but ultimately the entire program was maybe 5% of the national budget-with most of this 'wasted money' going to poor farmers- under the Abhisit regime the rice subsidy was the 'Farmers Insurance' program, and what , an 'insurance' subsidy is going to have 0 graft, not-liklyand it was just as expensive as the pledging program.. The entire case against Yingluck and her commerce minister is based on the notion that they 'knew corruption was happening but did nothing to stop it'.. EVERY entitlement program is going to have some 'corruption', this article is proof that the 'corruption' wasn't that bad, just a few forged documents.

the entire smear campaign was just a tool for the establishment to sabotage the democratically elected government, notice how as soon as the military took over the farmers were immediately paid because the 'caretaker' government for 6 months was not allowed to pay them, legal restrictions, Banks refusing to give the govt short term loads, and rich Thai's affiliated with the pdrc threatening to run on any bank that loaned money to the government. If it hadn't been the rice pledging 'scheme' then the establishment would have made something else an 'isssue of corruption' like they could have said that there was cost overruns in infrastructure spending and this was 'corruption'.

The RPPs positioned as profitable and 'only' needing a revolving funds for initial payments was a disaster. Even now we only seem to know that 500 billion Baht (i.e. 500,000,000,000) has been lost. Poor farmers still poor, some farmers only being paid after six or more months. No transparency neither responsibility by the Yingluck administration. Utterly criminally negligent.

The possible losses seem to approach the level which would have seen the deficit in the National Budget almost double for THREE years in a row. The wasted money, where is it? Till now no one knows. The only thing we know is that it is NOT with the poor farmers is was meant for.

The Abhisit government 'minimum price guarantee' payable directly to farmers let to complaints that it wasn't enough. Still it went directly to farmers.

The only campaign I see now it some people desperately trying to obfuscate, tell halftruths or even lies.

A Yingluck government which said mid-2013 to need only 270 billion Baht for 2013/2014 RPPS and to have the funding. Many months bills not paid till in December the caretaker government tried to borrow 'only' 130 billion Baht.

Now it seems to become clear why the suddenly 'blanket' amnesty bill covered not only Thaksin's last two years in/out of office, but even the first two years of Yingluck administration. They simply KNEW they would need it.

Lost to whom?

How much was pilfered and how much is simply the difference between the global and paid price?

That is the issue, not the subsidy loss.

[tomacht8]

Yes there are not existing any Nattawut Transport companys carrying rice bags.
No. No. No.

[northernjohn]

I wouldn't be jumping up and down for joy too much, as the whole world said the same thing about Iraq's WMD's and to this day, there hasn't been any stockpile of any such weapons discovered or uncovered, and in that one you had all the big superpowers "Intelligence" agencies super confident and reeled off hundreds of accounts of where they were, and they were proven to be false

There's no doubt there's irregularities, maybe the NACC can come over to Iraq and find the WMD once they find all the "missing rice/money"

I also doubt that the Police would be "dragging their heels" here either so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss their lack of efficiency as it's been evident this week that General Prayuth has been moving high ranking Policemen from various posts, you think he's going to NOT wish to have this particular case looked at by people he can trust to get the job done?

Just following your off topic post but the U S government knew there was no WMD in Iraq. There intelligence organizations had told them that. But Chaney had to have war to hand over nice big un bid on contracts to his buddies in his former employment position with Halliburton.

[Tokay]

Gotta love this place.

[DrDweeb]

I wouldn't be jumping up and down for joy too much, as the whole world said the same thing about Iraq's WMD's and to this day, there hasn't been any stockpile of any such weapons discovered or uncovered, and in that one you had all the big superpowers "Intelligence" agencies super confident and reeled off hundreds of accounts of where they were, and they were proven to be false

There's no doubt there's irregularities, maybe the NACC can come over to Iraq and find the WMD once they find all the "missing rice/money"

I also doubt that the Police would be "dragging their heels" here either so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss their lack of efficiency as it's been evident this week that General Prayuth has been moving high ranking Policemen from various posts, you think he's going to NOT wish to have this particular case looked at by people he can trust to get the job done?

Talking of Iraq .. What about The Great Australian Wheat Scam... AWB paid Huge kickbacks to Saddam Hussain .. This corruption scandal went all the way to the top of Australian politics ... That case started in 2005 and right until now no-one has been convicted ... That Australia for you... The most corrupt Western country in the whole <deleted> world... and I see Aussies on here complaining about PTP, Australia makes Thailand look like a novice in the corruption game... John Howard and Thaksin ... same Devil..

"John Howard and Thaksin ... same Devil.."

I thought it was the entire ALP and Labour movement that were in the dock under investigation for corruption? In any case, it has already been proven in a lower court that the former PM was responsible for setting up trade union corruption slush funds (read: active participant in theft and corruption). With an ounce of good luck, she will do gaol time.

Howard left Australia with 45 billion in the bank and a massive public surplus. I suggest you take a look at the national accounts now and ask yourself who did that and how they did it.

[The Deerhunter]

Not surprising as this investigation is more focusing on the "nuts and bolts" of the scam. The thing is not to prove that they were involved, but more that they were aware of it.

I wonder what Supa has to say about this though?

Oh that's right she won't dribble information out as the investigation by the NACC is progressing. The NACC will wait until it has fully completed its investigation and present its findings.

That is the one I am looking forward to.

I agree.

The key word being 'YET'.

The NACC are looking at the whole structure of money movement and where all of it has ended up.

The police findings have just added to the paper trail and unearthed previously unmentioned techniques of fraud.

The bigger picture is that claims were made at the highest government levels, and that includes Finance and Commerce ministers releasing statements of which will soon be proven lies.

The government have had the luxury of 7 months to hide stuff and destroy all incriminating evidence that points directly at the upper structures.

But rest assured that missing evidence (and there must be lots) will be just as guilt bearing as a smoking gun.

It is the money that can't be hidden or destroyed as it always leaves a paper trail and the majority of the missing cash will have been transferred electronically... you can't just carry hundreds of billions of baht around, and even if you could, the paper trail would stop at YOU.... All money is documented right up to it hitting a person's palm.

I have heard stories about gas contracts being let & money just never landing in the government accounts, in other words just passing directly to someone's private or overseas slush funds. I wonder if records of transfers of large amounts rice of exports will be found but with no records of payments that match. Well, that is the type of thing forensic auditors look for and it takes time. Hell, it is it less than two weeks, isn't it!

[Mackie]

The police say no high-level politicians found involved in rice mortgage graft yet. It really made me laugh. The police in this country really takes people for absolute idiots. Everyone knows that Chalerm (man with many functions) was effectively running the police force on behalf of his master.

"I'm Thaksin's servant"

Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yubamrung

The police force in Thailand had better refrain from making any statements in the future. They're simply insulting Thais and everyone else's intelligence with their ridiculous announcements.

[The Deerhunter]

The police say no high-level politicians found involved in rice mortgage graft yet. It really made me laugh. The police in this country really takes people for absolute idiots. Everyone knows that Chalerm (man with many functions) was effectively running the police force on behalf of his master.

"I'm Thaksin's servant"

Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yubamrung

The police force in Thailand had better refrain from making any statements in the future. They're simply insulting Thais and everyone else's intelligence with their ridiculous announcements.

Chalerm. Haven't heard much from him lately. How's this coup thing working out for him anyway? (Can rhetorical questions still be off topic?)

Edited May 31, 2014 by The Deerhunter

[kurnell]

Since high level politicians are not involved in any corruption, then how does all these billions of baht suddenly appear in their bank accounts.

[The Deerhunter]

There are 4 important words in that headline. "Thai police say" and "yet". It's early days "yet" (that word again). Early enough "yet" for the red trolls to still be vociferously hopeful. Time will tell.

Yet: adverb

1. at the present time; now: Don't go yet. Are they here yet?

2. up to a particular time; thus far: They had not yet come.

3. in the time still remaining; before all is done: There is yet time.

4. from the preceding time; as previously; still: He came here on a vacation 20 years ago, and he is here yet.

5 in addition; again: The mail brought yet another reply.

[fab4]

Since high level politicians are not involved in any corruption, then how does all these billions of baht suddenly appear in their bank accounts.

You tell us. You obviously know, right? Please let us know what politicians have had "billions of baht suddenly appear in their bank accounts"

[djjamie]

Since high level politicians are not involved in any corruption, then how does all these billions of baht suddenly appear in their bank accounts.

Yes that is quite correct. With over 500+billion baht stolen from the scheme and 3 million tons missing I would call the PTP MP's magicians not politicians.

They can magically make money and rice disappear.

[Thai at Heart]

Since high level politicians are not involved in any corruption, then how does all these billions of baht suddenly appear in their bank accounts.

Yes that is quite correct. With over 500+billion baht stolen from the scheme and 3 million tons missing I would call the PTP MP's magicians not politicians.

They can magically make money and rice disappear.

How much rice has passed through the system so far? 60mn tonnes?

And you reckon with milling and moisture loss, that 3mn is definitely stolen? If it is, they are never going to be able to find it.

I tried to find the same problem in a purchase of 5000 Mt. 30,000,000? No way. They will never prove 3mn tonnes loss.

[uty6543]

Since high level politicians are not involved in any corruption, then how does all these billions of baht suddenly appear in their bank accounts.

Yes that is quite correct. With over 500+billion baht stolen from the scheme and 3 million tons missing I would call the PTP MP's magicians not politicians.

They can magically make money and rice disappear.

How much rice has passed through the system so far? 60mn tonnes?

And you reckon with milling and moisture loss, that 3mn is definitely stolen? If it is, they are never going to be able to find it.

I tried to find the same problem in a purchase of 5000 Mt. 30,000,000? No way. They will never prove 3mn tonnes loss.

Accountants know almost exactly how much is lost through milling and moisture loss and will have allowed for this. So yes they will be able to prove there is 3 million tones unaccounted for. That's 24 billion baht at 8,000 per ton not a small amount that can be just written off.

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Since high level politicians are not involved in any corruption, then how does all these billions of baht suddenly appear in their bank accounts.

You tell us. You obviously know, right? Please let us know what politicians have had "billions of baht suddenly appear in their bank accounts" alt=coffee1.gif width=32 height=24>

On the other hand fabie, you have access to every little detail of everything, so you come up with a detailed accounting of every baht and where every baht is right now and in full detail and with proof.

This is activity by the government, therefore all details should be readily available and with fully transparency, so not too difficult for you to find, especially with you access. 'State secrets' doesn't wash and never will and in any case goes against the high principles of strong democracy as espoused a million times by the pt and udd.

No doubt with your access you can find the details in a second and prove that nobody has benefitted other than the poor famers (many of whom waited 8 months to be paid) .

Waiting for your detailed report.

Edited May 31, 2014 by scorecard

[Seastallion]

"According to Pol. Gen. Ek, so far no high-level politicians or civil servant have been found to be involved with the irregularities"

Not yet but there will be.

Not if it continues to be a police investigation.

[Thai at Heart]

Since high level politicians are not involved in any corruption, then how does all these billions of baht suddenly appear in their bank accounts.

Yes that is quite correct. With over 500+billion baht stolen from the scheme and 3 million tons missing I would call the PTP MP's magicians not politicians.

They can magically make money and rice disappear.

How much rice has passed through the system so far? 60mn tonnes?

And you reckon with milling and moisture loss, that 3mn is definitely stolen? If it is, they are never going to be able to find it.

I tried to find the same problem in a purchase of 5000 Mt. 30,000,000? No way. They will never prove 3mn tonnes loss.

Accountants know almost exactly how much is lost through milling and moisture loss and will have allowed for this. So yes they will be able to prove there is 3 million tones unaccounted for. That's 24 billion baht at 8,000 per ton not a small amount that can be just written off.

I doubt it very much.

The stuff is bought over many months, all at different moistures, stored at multiple places across the country. The only reliable number they have is the tonnage bought on the day of purchase.

Machinery varies across factories, different factories have different yields, different times of the year have different yields, different qualities have different yields. Ambient moisture, paddy moisture and paddy quality change through the months.

Put one tonne of paddy in on Monday and get 650 kilos out put it in on Tuesday and get 600. This assumes that they weight everything on the way into the factory at the moment you process it, or use the figures you have from processing.

3mn tonnes in a process this big and widespread is barely beyond acceptable loss. They would be better to chase neglignece for letting it go mouldy.

[fab4]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Since high level politicians are not involved in any corruption, then how does all these billions of baht suddenly appear in their bank accounts.

You tell us. You obviously know, right? Please let us know what politicians have had "billions of baht suddenly appear in their bank accounts" alt=coffee1.gif width=32 height=24>

On the other hand fabie, you have access to every little detail of everything, so you come up with a detailed accounting of every baht and where every baht is right now and in full detail and with proof.

This is activity by the government, therefore all details should be readily available and with fully transparency, so not too difficult for you to find, especially with you access. 'State secrets' doesn't wash and never will and in any case goes against the high principles of strong democracy as espoused a million times by the pt and udd.

No doubt with your access you can find the details in a second and prove that nobody has benefitted other than the poor famers (many of whom waited 8 months to be paid) .

Waiting for your detailed report.

I'm not the one stating categorically that billions of baht has been allegedly stolen by politicians so the burden of proof is not on me. I asked a simple question. kurnell made the statement - if he doesn't provide proof I shall ignore his claim as most intelligent people on this forum would.

However, there are some that will take this claim as gospel - that has been demonstrated time after time on here.

[djjamie]

Since high level politicians are not involved in any corruption, then how does all these billions of baht suddenly appear in their bank accounts.

Yes that is quite correct. With over 500+billion baht stolen from the scheme and 3 million tons missing I would call the PTP MP's magicians not politicians.

They can magically make money and rice disappear.

How much rice has passed through the system so far? 60mn tonnes?

And you reckon with milling and moisture loss, that 3mn is definitely stolen? If it is, they are never going to be able to find it.

I tried to find the same problem in a purchase of 5000 Mt. 30,000,000? No way. They will never prove 3mn tonnes loss.

I don't reckon it is missing. The audit committee does.

Don't tell me about the excuses. I am sure you have many. Tell the NACC.

For all the rice and money that magically disappeared, excuses magically appear in there place.

Abra Kadabra Ala Kazam!!

[djjamie]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Since high level politicians are not involved in any corruption, then how does all these billions of baht suddenly appear in their bank accounts.

You tell us. You obviously know, right? Please let us know what politicians have had "billions of baht suddenly appear in their bank accounts" alt=coffee1.gif width=32 height=24>

On the other hand fabie, you have access to every little detail of everything, so you come up with a detailed accounting of every baht and where every baht is right now and in full detail and with proof.

This is activity by the government, therefore all details should be readily available and with fully transparency, so not too difficult for you to find, especially with you access. 'State secrets' doesn't wash and never will and in any case goes against the high principles of strong democracy as espoused a million times by the pt and udd.

No doubt with your access you can find the details in a second and prove that nobody has benefitted other than the poor famers (many of whom waited 8 months to be paid) .

Waiting for your detailed report.

I'm not the one stating categorically that billions of baht has been allegedly stolen by politicians so the burden of proof is not on me. I asked a simple question. kurnell made the statement - if he doesn't provide proof I shall ignore his claim as most intelligent people on this forum would.

However, there are some that will take this claim as gospel - that has been demonstrated time after time on here.

The fact is scorecard the PTP cannot account for every baht. They cannot account for about 500 billion baht. That is proof enough that they have stolen it otherwise they would show where the money is to clear their names.

That is like you having 500 billion baht in the closet and I asked you were it was. You won't tell me. I say I will call the police because I think you stole it. You still won't tell me. You are investigated and found guilty and go to jail knowing all along that if you told me the money was in the closet you would be free and will have proven to the world that you did not steal it.

And then your defenders say you didn't steal it. You are just keeping it a secret.

That is undoubtably, unequivocally, without question PTP logic right there.

Oh I will finish by saying…Only unintelligent people with disagree with that…..

[robblok]

The concept of the rice plan was a good one. However changes in world rice markets affected the price offered.

I understand that the information is pointing more to those red culprits. Unfortunately information on the corrupt is still coming in from the yellow angels.

How dare a democratic government develop business relationships outside the respected, trusted in house, local business networks, old-boys, and the Mr 10+ percenters that the Democrats would have developed and dealt with. The Democrats networks have all this catered for, with payments being more anonymous and sophisticated then any program the Pheu Thai party could have developed. Plus any over-payments would have gone to the right people, not Yinglucks crew.

Plus there were more whistle blowers in the civil service keeping their hand on it, that knew when and how to get blown.

Concept a good one Only the really die hard red supporters or those with little gray matter still support it.

- The poorest farmers subsistence farmers never got helped as they did not sell the rice.

- Wealthy big farmers were helped while it was not needed for them

- The moment the program was made public prices of rent for farmland and fertilizer went up

- Rice from other countries got imported

- Major losses were incurred 500 billion (conservative) while a positive result was budgeted

- People who told the truth about the program were bullied and transferred

- GTG deals were faked (proven) and the difference pocketed by the Shins (alleged for now)

- Thailand lost its place as seller of rice

- Quality of rice went down

- Farmers did not get paid on time (even before the problems started)

- Farmers killed themselves because of it

- When the government went into caretaker mode they did not make sure they could keep on paying the farmers (incompetence)

It would have been so much easier and less corruption and less cost to pay farmers by the amount of land they had with a maximum so the poor farmers would have benefited and not the rich ones. This would also not have led to an increase in fertilizer and land costs. However the scam possibility would be so much less so that is why this is not done.

PTP = corruption.

My comment was concept. Similar concepts operate around the world in agriculture. You seem to want to blow any thought that does not fit with your mind set into an attack on one side against the other?

Concept means idea.

I haven't commented on the mechanics of the idea as I do agree there were flaws.

The other factor is that there appears to be this need to hang-em high notion, that is endemic with the elite Thai side of politics. This is an observation on Thai politics.

Sometimes when you step back, question what is happening, you can see the wood for the trees.

The concept was flawed.. you are flawed i pointed it out and you had no defense as saying the concept was right

If you mean the concept of paying money to farmers helping them.. then there are other much better ways. Just admit that the rice scheme was totally wrong but the idea of helping farmers is not. Then we agree.

Subsidizing small farmers can be done much better if they pay per amount of land owned or rented with a maxium. This way you include the poor farmers and leave out the rich ones. Its also much easier to check and less room for corruption.

Though in general I am against subsidizing as you keep people bound to you a trick Taksin knew well. Its better to help them to become self sufficient. If Thailand can't compete with Vietnam then its stupid to pour money in there. Then its better to change method or even crop. Help them with that not keep them depended on handouts.

[kurnell]

Since high level politicians are not involved in any corruption, then how does all these billions of baht suddenly appear in their bank accounts.

You tell us. You obviously know, right? Please let us know what politicians have had "billions of baht suddenly appear in their bank accounts"

Are you George, Paul, Ringo or John?

[kurnell]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Since high level politicians are not involved in any corruption, then how does all these billions of baht suddenly appear in their bank accounts.

You tell us. You obviously know, right? Please let us know what politicians have had "billions of baht suddenly appear in their bank accounts" alt=coffee1.gif width=32 height=24>

On the other hand fabie, you have access to every little detail of everything, so you come up with a detailed accounting of every baht and where every baht is right now and in full detail and with proof.

This is activity by the government, therefore all details should be readily available and with fully transparency, so not too difficult for you to find, especially with you access. 'State secrets' doesn't wash and never will and in any case goes against the high principles of strong democracy as espoused a million times by the pt and udd.

No doubt with your access you can find the details in a second and prove that nobody has benefitted other than the poor famers (many of whom waited 8 months to be paid) .

Waiting for your detailed report.

I'm not the one stating categorically that billions of baht has been allegedly stolen by politicians so the burden of proof is not on me. I asked a simple question. kurnell made the statement - if he doesn't provide proof I shall ignore his claim as most intelligent people on this forum would.

However, there are some that will take this claim as gospel - that has been demonstrated time after time on here.

You're right Liverpool lad, all pollies are golden. Did you just land?

[Soutpeel]

Since high level politicians are not involved in any corruption, then how does all these billions of baht suddenly appear in their bank accounts.

You tell us. You obviously know, right? Please let us know what politicians have had "billions of baht suddenly appear in their bank accounts"

Are you George, Paul, Ringo or John?

now now lets not associate truly legendary musician's /song writers with the likes of "Fab4", who is legendary only in his own imagination