"Saving face"

[benalibina]

With the Liars you described they both sound like my 2 X-wives and neither one of them were Thai.

To deal with "Saving Face" the first thing you have to deal with is yourself, which you know. Ask yourself, "How important is it to me to prove I am right?". "To prove he was wrong?". I would guess this is high on your personality list. But really, how important is that when you already know the answer? Is it worth arguing over? Is it worth fighting over? Is it worth getting upset about?

As long as you know the truth the rest doesn't matter. Sure! A friendly argument about Football with Friends over a few beers is fun. Thais do that to! But you wouldn't joke with a friend about his wife being unfaithful behind his back when he doesn't know, even if you do know the truth, just to prove you are right. Would You? Or even if he does know or suspects. Which is Saving Face!

Saving Face is supposed to be a 2-Way Street. Saves you the embarrassment of being wrong to. I guess it goes back to that old joke that "If you ask me no questions I will not tell you no lies." I don't have to deal with that much so not a big deal with me. But if I had a Thai Staff of say 25 or more, it would be quite different I am sure. So best I wait for there comments.

I am still breaking in My Thai Wife, and away from this, with some success.

How important is it to prove that i am right ?

Depends on the issue and person. If somebody knows/should know, by normal acceptable behaviour, that one has done seriously wrong (i.e.hurt) consciously or subconsciously, and said person, upon confrontation, does not show any reciprocity by admitting their wrongdoing because of FACE, yes, then it is important to let him/her to understand their wrong. Moreover, if it is a close relationship it is vital to have mutual understanding and respect. Not adressing it can mean a loss of one's own dignity and respect.

On the first bold point: From whose point of view are you looking at "normal acceptable behaviour" ? A Thai viewpoint or a Farang viewpoint ?

On the second bold point: That is where the dreaded silent treatment comes in

1) Worldwide acceptable human behaviour

2) That says it all then.....to add....walking away too.

[AYJAYDEE]

With the Liars you described they both sound like my 2 X-wives and neither one of them were Thai.

To deal with "Saving Face" the first thing you have to deal with is yourself, which you know. Ask yourself, "How important is it to me to prove I am right?". "To prove he was wrong?". I would guess this is high on your personality list. But really, how important is that when you already know the answer? Is it worth arguing over? Is it worth fighting over? Is it worth getting upset about?

As long as you know the truth the rest doesn't matter. Sure! A friendly argument about Football with Friends over a few beers is fun. Thais do that to! But you wouldn't joke with a friend about his wife being unfaithful behind his back when he doesn't know, even if you do know the truth, just to prove you are right. Would You? Or even if he does know or suspects. Which is Saving Face!

Saving Face is supposed to be a 2-Way Street. Saves you the embarrassment of being wrong to. I guess it goes back to that old joke that "If you ask me no questions I will not tell you no lies." I don't have to deal with that much so not a big deal with me. But if I had a Thai Staff of say 25 or more, it would be quite different I am sure. So best I wait for there comments.

I am still breaking in My Thai Wife, and away from this, with some success.

How important is it to prove that i am right ?

Depends on the issue and person. If somebody knows/should know, by normal acceptable behaviour, that one has done seriously wrong (i.e.hurt) consciously or subconsciously, and said person, upon confrontation, does not show any reciprocity by admitting their wrongdoing because of FACE, yes, then it is important to let him/her to understand their wrong. Moreover, if it is a close relationship it is vital to have mutual understanding and respect. Not adressing it can mean a loss of one's own dignity and respect.

On the first bold point: From whose point of view are you looking at "normal acceptable behaviour" ? A Thai viewpoint or a Farang viewpoint ?

On the second bold point: That is where the dreaded silent treatment comes in

1) Worldwide acceptable human behaviour

2) That says it all then.....to add....walking away too.

there is no such thing as worldwide acceptable behaviour

[sdanielmcev]

In the short amount of time I've been in LOS I've observed a dearth of jerks and jerkettes demanding this, that and the other, from Thais. However, I have seen it from dirtbag farangs. Saving face is important to Thais. If you want to come to paradise, you gotta suspend disbelief.

[benalibina]

With the Liars you described they both sound like my 2 X-wives and neither one of them were Thai.

To deal with "Saving Face" the first thing you have to deal with is yourself, which you know. Ask yourself, "How important is it to me to prove I am right?". "To prove he was wrong?". I would guess this is high on your personality list. But really, how important is that when you already know the answer? Is it worth arguing over? Is it worth fighting over? Is it worth getting upset about?

As long as you know the truth the rest doesn't matter. Sure! A friendly argument about Football with Friends over a few beers is fun. Thais do that to! But you wouldn't joke with a friend about his wife being unfaithful behind his back when he doesn't know, even if you do know the truth, just to prove you are right. Would You? Or even if he does know or suspects. Which is Saving Face!

Saving Face is supposed to be a 2-Way Street. Saves you the embarrassment of being wrong to. I guess it goes back to that old joke that "If you ask me no questions I will not tell you no lies." I don't have to deal with that much so not a big deal with me. But if I had a Thai Staff of say 25 or more, it would be quite different I am sure. So best I wait for there comments.

I am still breaking in My Thai Wife, and away from this, with some success.

How important is it to prove that i am right ?

Depends on the issue and person. If somebody knows/should know, by normal acceptable behaviour, that one has done seriously wrong (i.e.hurt) consciously or subconsciously, and said person, upon confrontation, does not show any reciprocity by admitting their wrongdoing because of FACE, yes, then it is important to let him/her to understand their wrong. Moreover, if it is a close relationship it is vital to have mutual understanding and respect. Not adressing it can mean a loss of one's own dignity and respect.

On the first bold point: From whose point of view are you looking at "normal acceptable behaviour" ? A Thai viewpoint or a Farang viewpoint ?

On the second bold point: That is where the dreaded silent treatment comes in

1) Worldwide acceptable human behaviour

2) That says it all then.....to add....walking away too.

there is no such thing as worldwide acceptable behaviour

There is.

If nothing better to post....try Word Association on Pubforum....a post is a post.

[AYJAYDEE]

With the Liars you described they both sound like my 2 X-wives and neither one of them were Thai.

To deal with "Saving Face" the first thing you have to deal with is yourself, which you know. Ask yourself, "How important is it to me to prove I am right?". "To prove he was wrong?". I would guess this is high on your personality list. But really, how important is that when you already know the answer? Is it worth arguing over? Is it worth fighting over? Is it worth getting upset about?

As long as you know the truth the rest doesn't matter. Sure! A friendly argument about Football with Friends over a few beers is fun. Thais do that to! But you wouldn't joke with a friend about his wife being unfaithful behind his back when he doesn't know, even if you do know the truth, just to prove you are right. Would You? Or even if he does know or suspects. Which is Saving Face!

Saving Face is supposed to be a 2-Way Street. Saves you the embarrassment of being wrong to. I guess it goes back to that old joke that "If you ask me no questions I will not tell you no lies." I don't have to deal with that much so not a big deal with me. But if I had a Thai Staff of say 25 or more, it would be quite different I am sure. So best I wait for there comments.

I am still breaking in My Thai Wife, and away from this, with some success.

How important is it to prove that i am right ?

Depends on the issue and person. If somebody knows/should know, by normal acceptable behaviour, that one has done seriously wrong (i.e.hurt) consciously or subconsciously, and said person, upon confrontation, does not show any reciprocity by admitting their wrongdoing because of FACE, yes, then it is important to let him/her to understand their wrong. Moreover, if it is a close relationship it is vital to have mutual understanding and respect. Not adressing it can mean a loss of one's own dignity and respect.

On the first bold point: From whose point of view are you looking at "normal acceptable behaviour" ? A Thai viewpoint or a Farang viewpoint ?

On the second bold point: That is where the dreaded silent treatment comes in

1) Worldwide acceptable human behaviour

2) That says it all then.....to add....walking away too.

there is no such thing as worldwide acceptable behaviour

There is.

If nothing better to post....try Word Association on Pubforum....a post is a post.

I doubt you speak for the whole world

[AYJAYDEE]

With the Liars you described they both sound like my 2 X-wives and neither one of them were Thai.

To deal with "Saving Face" the first thing you have to deal with is yourself, which you know. Ask yourself, "How important is it to me to prove I am right?". "To prove he was wrong?". I would guess this is high on your personality list. But really, how important is that when you already know the answer? Is it worth arguing over? Is it worth fighting over? Is it worth getting upset about?

As long as you know the truth the rest doesn't matter. Sure! A friendly argument about Football with Friends over a few beers is fun. Thais do that to! But you wouldn't joke with a friend about his wife being unfaithful behind his back when he doesn't know, even if you do know the truth, just to prove you are right. Would You? Or even if he does know or suspects. Which is Saving Face!

Saving Face is supposed to be a 2-Way Street. Saves you the embarrassment of being wrong to. I guess it goes back to that old joke that "If you ask me no questions I will not tell you no lies." I don't have to deal with that much so not a big deal with me. But if I had a Thai Staff of say 25 or more, it would be quite different I am sure. So best I wait for there comments.

I am still breaking in My Thai Wife, and away from this, with some success.

How important is it to prove that i am right ?

Depends on the issue and person. If somebody knows/should know, by normal acceptable behaviour, that one has done seriously wrong (i.e.hurt) consciously or subconsciously, and said person, upon confrontation, does not show any reciprocity by admitting their wrongdoing because of FACE, yes, then it is important to let him/her to understand their wrong. Moreover, if it is a close relationship it is vital to have mutual understanding and respect. Not adressing it can mean a loss of one's own dignity and respect.

On the first bold point: From whose point of view are you looking at "normal acceptable behaviour" ? A Thai viewpoint or a Farang viewpoint ?

On the second bold point: That is where the dreaded silent treatment comes in

1) Worldwide acceptable human behaviour

2) That says it all then.....to add....walking away too.

there is no such thing as worldwide acceptable behaviour

There is.

If nothing better to post....try Word Association on Pubforum....a post is a post.

I doubt you speak for the whole world

[Stargeezer9889]

Saving Face is complicated! After taking nearly an hour to read all the entries, I have

concluded this. I have been married to my Thai/Canadian wife for 15 years, and I still can not

figure out to save face, or save myself. It seems that Thai to Thai face saving is different from Thai to Farang ,or Farang to Thai face savings. I have observed this especially when I am with my Thai family in Thailand. If I ask what is the problem when they are in the process of

saving face, I get "not your business", or my wife will say, "it is just Thai troubles".

I occasionally get an honest answer and I say "you are right I should not have asked".

So far the best times I have in Thailand is when I get asked for the Farang opinion, then they laugh when I give it. Mostly I just sit in the shadows and enjoy a Coffee Yen, or a cool beer.

Maybe if I live part of the year for 20 more years in Thailand I may come to understand

how to save face better. To conclude, I am more successful at gazing at the stars and figuring out

which constellation is which, and which of the fuzzy little objects I can recognize. I am still trying to travel far enough to the south to be able to see the SMC or the LMC and southern

constellations. I know this will not save a face, but it will distract those around me. 555

Stargeezer9889

[Strangebrew]

If it is a good looking Thai chick just change subject and let it go you findout later your glad you did. If it is a guy to ease tension pull over to side talk softly let him know your on to it and move on. Just don't do it in public then none issue.

[LawrenceN]

LOL. <- That's my advice (since you asked), not schadenfreude. Like when I go into HomePro and the twenty-something employee tells me something is not available, and I find it on the shelf a minute later. I then go tell the employee where to find it, and he replies with some totally lame BS excuse. I LOL. They get it, and know they have been caught out, but that's acceptable here.

[AYJAYDEE]

LOL. <- That's my advice (since you asked), not schadenfreude. Like when I go into HomePro and the twenty-something employee tells me something is not available, and I find it on the shelf a minute later. I then go tell the employee where to find it, and he replies with some totally lame BS excuse. I LOL. They get it, and know they have been caught out, but that's acceptable here.

so you got your purchase and he now knows he was wrong but knows where to find it for next time. acceptable? so whats the problem? or are you not satisfied unless he admits the error of his ways and grovels before the sahib?

[teatree]

I agree with the author Tom Robbins who says that the oriental 'face' is a highly sensitive ego.

[Tomtomtom69]

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I don't know why you find the concept so hard to understand

Thais are a lot more social than people in the West where one could live in a neighborhood for ten years and not know the people living four houses away

because they are more social their reputation (face) is a lot more important than people in the west.

It's the same in Thailand, in fact, I would say in Thailand you generally DON'T know your neighbors unless you happen to live in a rural part of the country and everyone living in your neighborhood have been living in the same place for decades, perhaps even generations. What I have stated is especially true in Bangkok. I have never seen very much interaction between my neighbors (I live in a moo baan btw) and Thais generally care about their family, friends and business partners/other people they have become acquainted with (in that order) rather than strangers, including neighbors they haven't been introduced to.

Therefore I don't think Thais are more social at all. On the contrary if anything. People in the west value their privacy, but so do Thais (in a different sort of way though - they will open up about certain things but not others). The main difference is Thais are open and social with their families and people they already know. They are much more comfortable living in multi-generational households than most westerners. But to suggest they are more likely to talk to neighbors etc. I have to completely disagree with. Either you are living out in the sticks, or your neighbors are exceptionally friendly or it's because you're a westerner.

Thai people I've been introduced to have always been quite friendly, even very friendly (in a way I would expect that) but as for neighbors really bonding and becoming family with each other, I strongly doubt that occurs much at all in Thailand. Most neighbors living in moo baans get along just fine, by not talking to each other unless necessary. They guard their belongings and privacy. That's what I've noticed.

I used to make similar assumptions to you when I first came to Thailand too, sirieneou, but after years spent living in various accommodation, vague smiles are about the most I can expect from neighbors.

Get a Thai Wife like Mine!

In a week she would have made many Thai Friends already, tell you who the good and bad ones are and why, where everyone works and which Thai Wives stay at home, which Farang gets drunk a lot and yells at his Thai Wife, who lived in your place before you, who's kids are who's, and even who's dog and cat they all belong to. I am not surprised to see her come home the first week we are their with some ones kid under her arm.

Never had a problem getting to know who lived near me and all their personal problems. I just have a problem trying to figure out what my Thai Wife said about me to get all this information?

I have a Thai fiance who will soon become my wife. She is perfectly civil with the neighbors and other strangers as am I, but as I and other posters have pointed out, Thai neighbors don't talk to each other unless necessary. So either your wife is very extroverted, has lived abroad or certainly doesn't live in Bangkok. I can guarantee you that the situation I'm describing here is very normal - while I might have a nice little conversation with the clerk at the local store (inside the moo baan) generally speaking it doesn't get very personal. As far as ordinary neighbors are concerned, unless they're having a wedding and want to inform you they'll temporarily be some noise, there just isn't any interaction here! And even if you did talk to someone, it would probably only be the immediate neighbors you can see when you are leaving your driveway and again, only if there is a good reason to do so - people here are not just private but also quite busy, so at best it would take a long time to get acquainted with neighbors, one week like you say I highly doubt unless people are attracted to you due to being a foreigner. Remember that Thais are rather shy, therefore it explains a lot as to why they don't go up to strangers (even if they have to live next to them) and start baking cookies (or rather Tom Yum Kung) for them! Sorry, but this just doesn't happen in Thailand, especially not in Bangkok. Your wife is rather unusual in that context. And as for bringing a neighbors kid home, that just sounds weird, even creepy.

BTW Latin cultures are the most extroverted and it's there that neighbors will interact with each other quite regularly, inviting neighbors over for dinner from time to time. Neighbors having dinner with each other in Thailand? Except at weddings and funerals, unheard of.

Edited June 5, 2014 by Tomtomtom69

[Berkshire]

LOL. <- That's my advice (since you asked), not schadenfreude. Like when I go into HomePro and the twenty-something employee tells me something is not available, and I find it on the shelf a minute later. I then go tell the employee where to find it, and he replies with some totally lame BS excuse. I LOL. They get it, and know they have been caught out, but that's acceptable here.

How would any young employee in the west behave if proven wrong about something that they should know? Would it help to jump on the guy and try to get him to admit that he's wrong? Would it help your fragile ego if he were to get on his knees and repeat over and over again "I'm not worthy!"

If we're honest, we'll admit that the Thais in most cases behave pretty much the same as farangs or any other nationality.

[raybal5]

Soutpeel, you really are a tosser. 14,000+ comments and the best you can cotribute is "stay in your own country". As i am sure your parents taught you that if you do not have something good to say then do not say anything. Yes i am being a hypocrite but cannot help myself. Ignorant people like you p#ss me off. If i could be bothered i would go back all your other posts and can imagine they would all be of the same high standard of contribution. In fact I read your 2 other posts on this topic and they contributed absolutely nothing. Then again I guess with 14000 plus posts you dont get out very often and communicate in real life to people, just do it all from behind a screen. Turn off the computer and go outside occasionally and you will see that the world isnt quite like it was when you left it for a computer.

Well said Callaway. There are too many idiots on this forum who add nothing to the debate. The moderators might consider ways of enforcing the rule...

• 9) Do not post inflammatory messages on the forum, or attempt to disrupt discussions to upset its participants, or trolling.Trolling can be defined as the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

They seem to delight in putting other people down rather than making intelligent comments.

[socksy01]

Fortunately im british. We dont play the face game so much, but we do skirt around the flower garden a little. Just learn to be indirect or 'diplomatic' and voila, you understand 'face'. If you still dont understand, spend a month with copies of yes minister/prime minister and watch Sir Humphrey until you get the general gist.

im a brit too,

but im not sure i agree with this,

you live in a street, go buy a new car, i bet there would bo some down that street go and get a new car even if it skint them or on tick, just to show face, like we can afford one too,

i used to call it keeping up with the johnes,

ive seen it mant times, new conservetory,,, next door get one,,,

its all face

It's not just the face thing over here it's the noseyness, wanting to know everyone's business and backstabbing, but been here long enough to just get on and ignore it. They always want to know where you are going and check-out (no pun intended) how many of them look into the trolley of a foreigner to see what's in it. Their customs.

[AYJAYDEE]

Soutpeel, you really are a tosser. 14,000+ comments and the best you can cotribute is "stay in your own country". As i am sure your parents taught you that if you do not have something good to say then do not say anything. Yes i am being a hypocrite but cannot help myself. Ignorant people like you p#ss me off. If i could be bothered i would go back all your other posts and can imagine they would all be of the same high standard of contribution. In fact I read your 2 other posts on this topic and they contributed absolutely nothing. Then again I guess with 14000 plus posts you dont get out very often and communicate in real life to people, just do it all from behind a screen. Turn off the computer and go outside occasionally and you will see that the world isnt quite like it was when you left it for a computer.

Well said Callaway. There are too many idiots on this forum who add nothing to the debate. The moderators might consider ways of enforcing the rule...

• 9) Do not post inflammatory messages on the forum, or attempt to disrupt discussions to upset its participants, or trolling.Trolling can be defined as the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

They seem to delight in putting other people down rather than making intelligent comments.

so if someone is antagonized or responds emotionally to a contrary opinion, would it be trolling?

[Berkshire]

Soutpeel, you really are a tosser. 14,000+ comments and the best you can cotribute is "stay in your own country". As i am sure your parents taught you that if you do not have something good to say then do not say anything. Yes i am being a hypocrite but cannot help myself. Ignorant people like you p#ss me off. If i could be bothered i would go back all your other posts and can imagine they would all be of the same high standard of contribution. In fact I read your 2 other posts on this topic and they contributed absolutely nothing. Then again I guess with 14000 plus posts you dont get out very often and communicate in real life to people, just do it all from behind a screen. Turn off the computer and go outside occasionally and you will see that the world isnt quite like it was when you left it for a computer.

Well said Callaway. There are too many idiots on this forum who add nothing to the debate. The moderators might consider ways of enforcing the rule...

• 9) Do not post inflammatory messages on the forum, or attempt to disrupt discussions to upset its participants, or trolling.Trolling can be defined as the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

They seem to delight in putting other people down rather than making intelligent comments.

so if someone is antagonized or responds emotionally to a contrary opinion, would it be trolling?

Raybal seems to be describing himself pretty accurately.

[raybal5]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I guess i need to learn how to handle it.
Any suggestions?

Stay in your own country ?

Soutpeel, you really are a tosser. 14,000+ comments and the best you can cotribute is "stay in your own country". As i am sure your parents taught you that if you do not have something good to say then do not say anything. Yes i am being a hypocrite but cannot help myself. Ignorant people like you p#ss me off. If i could be bothered i would go back all your other posts and can imagine they would all be of the same high standard of contribution. alt=facepalm.gif>In fact I read your 2 other posts on this topic and they contributed absolutely nothing. Then again I guess with 14000 plus posts you dont get out very often and communicate in real life to people, just do it all from behind a screen. Turn off the computer and go outside occasionally and you will see that the world isnt quite like it was when you left it for a computer.

Well said Callaway. There are too many idiots on this forum who add nothing to the debate. The moderators might consider ways of enforcing the rule...

• 9) Do not post inflammatory messages on the forum, or attempt to disrupt discussions to upset its participants, or trolling.Trolling can be defined as the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

They seem to delight in putting other people down rather than making intelligent comments.

so if someone is antagonized or responds emotionally to a contrary opinion, would it be trolling?

Well in regard to the original comment by Soutpeel that we were commenting on, I reckon that is definitely a troll. Your question about responding emotionally will depend on what is actually written.

All of the forum rules are here so I'll let you have a read and you can form your own view.

[raybal5]

Soutpeel, you really are a tosser. 14,000+ comments and the best you can cotribute is "stay in your own country". As i am sure your parents taught you that if you do not have something good to say then do not say anything. Yes i am being a hypocrite but cannot help myself. Ignorant people like you p#ss me off. If i could be bothered i would go back all your other posts and can imagine they would all be of the same high standard of contribution. In fact I read your 2 other posts on this topic and they contributed absolutely nothing. Then again I guess with 14000 plus posts you dont get out very often and communicate in real life to people, just do it all from behind a screen. Turn off the computer and go outside occasionally and you will see that the world isnt quite like it was when you left it for a computer.

Well said Callaway. There are too many idiots on this forum who add nothing to the debate. The moderators might consider ways of enforcing the rule...

• 9) Do not post inflammatory messages on the forum, or attempt to disrupt discussions to upset its participants, or trolling.Trolling can be defined as the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

They seem to delight in putting other people down rather than making intelligent comments.

so if someone is antagonized or responds emotionally to a contrary opinion, would it be trolling?

Raybal seems to be describing himself pretty accurately.

And what is the basis of this comment? I welcome feedback but troll replies like yours are lazy and incomplete

[Berkshire]

Well said Callaway. There are too many idiots on this forum who add nothing to the debate. The moderators might consider ways of enforcing the rule...

• 9) Do not post inflammatory messages on the forum, or attempt to disrupt discussions to upset its participants, or trolling.Trolling can be defined as the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

They seem to delight in putting other people down rather than making intelligent comments.

so if someone is antagonized or responds emotionally to a contrary opinion, would it be trolling?

Raybal seems to be describing himself pretty accurately.

And what is the basis of this comment? I welcome feedback but troll replies like yours are lazy and incomplete

Soutpeel is a respected member of this community and doesn't deserve the vile comments being shoveled at him by you and your buddy callaway. I can certainly ask what rock you crawled out from, but frankly, I really don't care.

[AYJAYDEE]

I have never been able to understand the definition of trolling in any forum.Of course some opinions will be controversial and will inflame some who disagree with the post. The emotional response is often the actual problem rather than the original post. just because an opinion is controversial doesnt mean it is wrong. Its a difficult thing to decide if it is a deliberate provocation or not. So the definition becomes very vague and open to abuse.

Edited June 5, 2014 by AYJAYDEE

[NoThainess4U]

I don't know why you find the concept so hard to understand

Thais are a lot more social than people in the West where one could live in a neighborhood for ten years and not know the people living four houses away

because they are more social their reputation (face) is a lot more important than people in the west.

i lived in a bkk suburb for 4 months,

not one neighbor spoke to the other

[AYJAYDEE]

I don't know why you find the concept so hard to understand

Thais are a lot more social than people in the West where one could live in a neighborhood for ten years and not know the people living four houses away

because they are more social their reputation (face) is a lot more important than people in the west.

i lived in a bkk suburb for 4 months,

not one neighbor spoke to the other

but that is a modern aberration. the face thing comes from the past when folks lived in villages

Edited June 5, 2014 by AYJAYDEE

[NoThainess4U]

I don't know why you find the concept so hard to understand

Thais are a lot more social than people in the West where one could live in a neighborhood for ten years and not know the people living four houses away

because they are more social their reputation (face) is a lot more important than people in the west.

i lived in a bkk suburb for 4 months,

not one neighbor spoke to the other

their yapping freakin dogs though, they spoke to each other, all day and night

that was one place where sleeping in, was never gonna happen,

where I live now is as quiet as a funeral home, jut the way I like it

[spidermike007]

Saving face, or the very need to do so, in my opinion is the very essence of cowardice. It is an excuse to not look within, to reflect on a problem or issue, and to introspect and do the inner work required to grow as a human being. It prevents spiritual growth, and is the enemy of the soul. Who cares what people think of me? I could give a rats ass. I know I will be lectured about how inherent the whole concept is within Asian society, but does that mean it is right, or good, or proper, or positive on any level? I think not. It is an abomination, and I have had many discussions about my feelings with my Thai woman. She sort of gets it now, and is not quite as sensitive about how she appears to others. Friends, and family are important to please. But strangers? Who cares?

[AYJAYDEE]

Saving face, or the very need to do so, in my opinion is the very essence of cowardice. It is an excuse to not look within, to reflect on a problem or issue, and to introspect and do the inner work required to grow as a human being. It prevents spiritual growth, and is the enemy of the soul. Who cares what people think of me? I could give a rats ass. I know I will be lectured about how inherent the whole concept is within Asian society, but does that mean it is right, or good, or proper, or positive on any level? I think not. It is an abomination, and I have had many discussions about my feelings with my Thai woman. She sort of gets it now, and is not quite as sensitive about how she appears to others. Friends, and family are important to please. But strangers? Who cares?

saving face is what someone shows the outside world. you have no idea what introspection might be going on internally

[spidermike007]

You missed my point. Many use the idea of face to avoid confrontation, dialogue and resolution. It can be, and often is an excuse to not introspect. That was my point.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Sandman77]

Ok I read now every post here!

But one question , for me still not answered !

Why is it nearly impossible to win a loosing face back?

That kind of people want protect there face , are also that one

That not can handle self criticism !

I have a friend at home very straight man, married Thai wife

20 year come here for more then 40 times!

He says Thais also ignoring our face, he don't care about loosing

There're face policy in Thailand !

He say what he think!

And when airplane change price half our before take off

He. Stand inside the office counter and complaining load

That all can here!

People that want protect there face all the time,

Live in a illusion of lies to themself, and proberbly phosical ill!

This are also the reason why loosing the face people are bull headed , and cannot accept a good meaning advice from others !

Using a signal horn in traffic in other Asian country's , no problem, in Thailand someone can point a gun on you! This fact should aswer all question!

In my opinion it has absolutely nothing to do with the culture itself

It's only a excuse!

[tifino]

I think, S77, some of your query gets touched upon in the following experience:

Not speaking of Forums, but of real life. The real life that passes by between a Farang and his Thai missus( and how Save/Lose Face , and Trolling both co-exist:

It was about 5 weeks before getting married. We are driving and visit one of her temple-chat friends at her house.

We later get home, and fiancée is quiet.

Took about 3 days for it to come out:

Fiancee is angry she lose face to 'friend' who can’t come to wedding

Okaaayee I’m wondering to myself what this time??

Turned out her friend is a WL, and blabbed something that I was her customer…!!!

Mind churns fast.

Set some things straight – without delay this time…

…Mainly that:

I from day one have always been typical farang, always honest and hide nothing from my Thai girl.

I never hid that I had been a customer of WLs in the years preceding us two being together.

Still, fiancée has now lost face big time because her ‘friend’ cannot be at wedding as “she too embarrasse see me, and me see her”, because of it.

Well I didn’t show any sorryness to the Past, and said so, as they were irrelevant, because missus and I hold no secrets.

And I was quite happy the old short dumpy WL didn’t go on the day.

I have since proven it was not her, and that the old ‘friend’ had used my ‘past’ to try to stop my fiancée having a better future than her. We learned the ‘friend’ had convinced fiancée to bring me to house, to ‘see me real”, as part of her setup.

First and only time I had ever laid eyes on her too.

Thai wimmen are complicated yes…..

‘friend’ creates a false ‘embarrasement’ to create a Fiancee ‘lose face’, just to bring fiancée down a rung from being better off than her.

Missus has since disowned her ‘friend’ who bytheway created all this, by gleaning all the Fiancee Thai chit chat descriptions of me and my past, to her ‘friend’.

‘Friend was a great listener it seems…

Fiancee had even told her ‘friend’ of where and when I had been at certain places over those past years, and the ‘friend’ created her story from that.

‘Friends’ biggest mistake was to pretend to have been an actual WL who I had told fiancée the name of, let’s call her Eva.

What the ‘friend didn’t know was that this ‘Eva’ was a 20 yr old nymph, and the old bat ‘friend’ herself is late 40s.

Still took me a year to convince the wife it was all a setup though.

But the wife still holds that lost face experience in her frontline memory to this day.

Trolling: well that is exactly what the ‘friend‘ was doing to the missus.

What is most disturbing is that farang can easily get his head bitten off by being the one blamed for a lostface episode, whether it be real or false, but:

What about the respective behaviour of a Thai (in this case – WL) towards farangs??? She did not give a hoot about this open blabbing, that in many cases could cause the destruction of another couples’ relationship. Thais don’t care if farang seems to loseface, in her eyes.

What’s disturbing is that Thai wimmen in these circumstances give no thought to potential destruction to other peoples lives. What if someone blabs similar to another thai woman about her hubby, and that hubby actually WAS going to WLs during the relationship.

Total destruction ensues…even if the WL had mistaken identity, the farang doesn’t stand a chance, as he won’t be alowd to clear himself by normal discussion, because that causes headaches to hear too much English.

Anyhows, these days, we go to the Temple and wife and I play this little game to ourselves:

Spot the WL in the crowd. I score very well.

[pilotp]

I don't know why you find the concept so hard to understand

Thais are a lot more social than people in the West where one could live in a neighborhood for ten years and not know the people living four houses away

because they are more social their reputation (face) is a lot more important than people in the west.

Strange - We have lived here in the same neighbourhood for 7 months and we find the local neighbours very difficult to engage?? Social - I think not in some instances