Suthep defends his riot control role in 2010

[thumper101]

I think that everybody needs to re-read the OP.

This is not the case where Suthep and Abist are being prosecuted, that case will take years before being quietly dropped.

"He testified in the court for a case he filed against Department of Special Investigation (DSI) former director-general Tarit Pengdit and three other DSI senior officials of malfeasance and power abuse for indicting murder and attempted murder charges on former premier Abhisit Vejjajiva and him in connection with the legitimate crackdown of rioters between April and May 2010."

The aim of this case which is being very quickly rushed through the courts is to prosecute Tarit and others for bringing charges against the Dear Leader.

Talking about his testemony now. He said that he ordered shot guns fired and aimed below the knees, anybody who has used shotguns will tell you that they are useful because the pellets spread out quickely depending on the choke of the barrel.

You also did not read the OP properly.

He said he ordered the use of shotguns, but black shirts broke from the ranks and started firing at the soldiers using assault rifles.

Obviously that was the game changer because the ROE would have come into force for self defense purposes the shotguns would have been changed to assault weapons, which is standard procedure for the soldiers of ANY country's armed forces.

Those shooting at the soldiers were in among the reds, they were part of that red army and so the reds they were mingling with were in full 'valid targets'.

Had those soldiers not shot that scum, then BKK would have literally fell into a city-wide scene of carnage.

If the reds were allowed to continue their spree, it would have given them the confidence that they were unstoppable and the violence would have spread out of control.

Suthep and the army dd the right thing and I can't even believe there was an inquiry....

It was no more or no less than 'a good job done'.

[Docno]

I don't think that admission of ordering the protesters to be shot in the legs below the knee will have done him any favours. People can still bleed out in less than 45 seconds if they lose a limb if there's a severed artery.

I could see in his defence if he stated that the ammunition to be used was not solid enough in which to cause loss of limb or life, not too familiar with the levels of buckshot, I do believe that the larger the number of pellets, the greater the spread??

If the rambunctious reds were worried about having a limb blown off, they probably should not have been trying to burn down central Bangkok and carrying out a terror campaign to reinstall their dictator of choice. I could have told them myself it would only end in tears.

" If the rambunctious reds were worried about having a limb blown off, they probably should not have been trying to burn down central Bangkok"

I think you've got the sequence of events wrong. The use of live ammunition against protesters preceded the arson you're referring to....

[Docno]

A question to some of our Vets...to clarify what the keyboard warriors from both sides are arguing about: If you were deployed in your capital city, had permision and/or orders to use live rounds and were being shot at, would you retaliate or defect immediately? Only a real soldier could understand what goes on in another soldiers mind...that's why I'm asking. Most here don't have a cluem

Follow-up question: would you also shoot at protesters taking refuge in a house of worship and medical staff attending to the injured?

[thaiguzzi]

Suthep doesn't need to take the fall for anything. We've been over this many times before. Under the SoE in place at the time, the PM is immune to prosecution.

And that small armed and willing element? I call bullshit. It was a very large and well armed element being sheltered willingly by everyone else. I call a spade a spade.

This has been gone over a number of times but it appears that you have not been listening. abhisit and suthep will only be immune from prosecution under the SoE IF the response to the perceived threat is seen to be proportionate.

I would imagine the imposition of live fire zones, the use of snipers and around 80 plus unarmed civilians having been shot dead may be stretching the definition of proportionate somewhat.

As I mentioned in this article's responses; nice to have you come in here, to counter balance our memory of facts, experience, the fact we were there in BKK at the time; and the sheer reminder how much common sense we possess. As well as how cool it is I have a wife and Thai acquaintances with some idea what they heck is going on, and what crooks and swindlers all PTP are, and money hungry bums their followers are.

I know for a fact that Suthep, the Dems, the Yellows, the PRDC/PDRC, the "Elite", whatever you want to call the "Side" you think is "Right" are actually crooks and swindlers too. And their followers are money hungry bums too. Don't even get me started on name calling. Now crawl back to your nice safe BKK condo before making yourself a nice cup of cocoa, and catching up on your stocks and bonds on Fox news. And don't forget to hug teddy fore you switch the light out. Wan#k#er.

[pmugghc]

I don't think that admission of ordering the protesters to be shot in the legs below the knee will have done him any favours. People can still bleed out in less than 45 seconds if they lose a limb if there's a severed artery.

I could see in his defence if he stated that the ammunition to be used was not solid enough in which to cause loss of limb or life, not too familiar with the levels of buckshot, I do believe that the larger the number of pellets, the greater the spread??

If the rambunctious reds were worried about having a limb blown off, they probably should not have been trying to burn down central Bangkok and carrying out a terror campaign to reinstall their dictator of choice. I could have told them myself it would only end in tears.

" If the rambunctious reds were worried about having a limb blown off, they probably should not have been trying to burn down central Bangkok"

I think you've got the sequence of events wrong. The use of live ammunition against protesters preceded the arson you're referring to....

Remind me again when were Col Romklao and other soldiers killed? Edited June 9, 2014 by pmugghc

[oldsailor35]

Was the murdered nurse at the temple dressed in black Suthep. She was attending a wounded man lying on the ground ! Not bad for a "below the knees " target was she...................You are a murderer Suthep !

But i guess that with your influence and money, that you will get away with it.

[oldsailor35]

So, at last, for all you Abhisit haters, it wasn't him that gave the order.

As for the shooting "order" itself, I'm surprised it didn't come much, much sooner when dealing with armed terrorists that were terrorizing the civilian population at the time. They had plenty of warnings to leave, they chose to stay, they chose to shoot, bomb, kill, maim and terrorize.

At the end of the day, Thaksin got exactly what he wanted at that time . . . and he paid well for it I am sure.

Although i did not support them, i have said from day one that Abhist is not a bad person. Unlike the real ,then leader, Suthep. Abhisit was just a figurehead whose boss was in fact Suthep. The man who ordered the army to fire live ammunition at the protesters. But will Suthep have to pay for this, i doubt it, he has friends in the right places.

[oldsailor35]

I'm afraid once Suthep gave the orders to shoot live rounds the damage was done but at least he's admitted his guilt which is more than you can say for the man who gave the orders for the men in black to open fire.

OK so you reckon that poor ole Suthep is a nice guy then because he admits to murder.

[oldsailor35]

O, so these japanees and italian journalists, as well as those civilians at the temple in a red cross tent, and another some 80 civilians, they all were armed and not shot at head and hart

Ever been in chaos with bombs , fire and bullets flying around and ur buddies dropping down , this goes for both sides army and reds

I think that you have been watching too many American Viet Nam war movies..........give it a rest please.

[northernjohn]

Centre of Mass, nothing more, nothing less. I have instructed local Nationals for the past 10 years , it's always been "centre of mass".

Whilst also conducting Close protection out here for many years as well, not only was it centre of mass, it was shoot till the target was completely immobilized, until it it was no longer a threat to you, your client, or your team mates. Overkill perhaps, but this is the way many Tier 1 Special Operations Units teach how to shoot, and to make it clear, I am Not, and never have been Special Operations, I have however been taught to shoot and trained in CQ shooting by former CAG/SEAL/SAS/SBS members as they have been for most of my time out here my Bosses. I have never been taught, nor instructed any student, or team mate to shoot anything other than centre of mass.

There's many arguments about "where" to shoot, but getting shot in the femoral/brachial artery by a 9mm/5.56mm/7.62mm is still going to ruin your day, and unless you have good medics close by, you're going to bleed out in less than 2 minutes, less if you're already in a heightened state of anxiety. "shooting someone who has a weapon in the legs isn't going to stop him from still being able to use the weapon" ... so it's "centre of mass" till there's no chance he can

I hope that's a satisfactory reply, and not necessarily the one you were looking for?

This isn't consistent with your posts re Northern Ireland. Why did you use rubber bullets then?

Because when I was in Northern Ireland, I was a serving soldier, and we had the yellow card rules to follow, and it didn't allow the targeting of petrol bombers, and that the use of Baton rounds were used in the Internal Security Role, not in open situations, we did carry them on Patrol in Urban areas however, but the same principal applied, in that you were always taught to aim the baton gun, I think we called them FRG's as in Federal Riot Guns, at the centre of mass, getting hit by a baton round in most cases will knock the wind out of you, and put you on your back and also it has a very limited range, we're talking about 50-100M's here. A Baton Round/Rubber bullet is not like getting hit by a marshmallow, it's a solid piece of rubber, it looks like a flat nosed dildo, and many protesters in NI were hit in the head by these things, and died.

The other examples are of being in close proximity to a threat and having to make snap decisions that make you go from 1-4 and flash to bang in seconds, pertaining to the GR/RUF.

Fat Haggis

Thank you for your hands on experience. It is refreshing to hear from some one who has some knowledge of reality. So much better than the arm chair philosophers (yes I am included) orders are orders but when some one is trying to blow your head off I would imagine you would do what you had to do to eliminate the problem orders or no orders.

I don't think the orders that Suthep gave were to be carried out when some one was shooting at your head. I think if in fact he did order them to shoot below the knees with a shot gun he was not figuring on them actually having real guns and opening up the firing.

At any rate the charges were just trumped up charges to try and get amnesty for Thaksin. Suthep and Abhist fooled him. They refused to sink down to the level of slime he was creating.

[oldsailor35]

That pic is not Suthep. it is an impostor. Everybody knows that Suthep wears a silly whistle around his neck..............can't fool me !

[Fat Haggis]

Suthep, whether you love him or loathe him had to make a very difficult decision during that time, the order to use live rounds knowing full well of the consequences of their use will forever be his burden to bear, I don't believe for one minute he made the decision lightly either, or alone, and took any great pleasure in doing so.

I don't believe he's a cold blooded murderer anymore than Yingluck was, which might come as a surprise to many

[oldsailor35]

Suthep, whether you love him or loathe him had to make a very difficult decision during that time, the order to use live rounds knowing full well of the consequences of their use will forever be his burden to bear, I don't believe for one minute he made the decision lightly either, or alone, and took any great pleasure in doing so.

I don't believe he's a cold blooded murderer anymore than Yingluck was, which might come as a surprise to many

Get real! The man is ruthless and will do anything to get his way..........He is a murderer, end of story.

[Docno]

If the rambunctious reds were worried about having a limb blown off, they probably should not have been trying to burn down central Bangkok and carrying out a terror campaign to reinstall their dictator of choice. I could have told them myself it would only end in tears.

" If the rambunctious reds were worried about having a limb blown off, they probably should not have been trying to burn down central Bangkok"

I think you've got the sequence of events wrong. The use of live ammunition against protesters preceded the arson you're referring to....

Remind me again when were Col Romklao and other soldiers killed?

You're missing the point... the suggestion was that the use of live ammunition was in response to the arson, which was clearly not the case... That happened at the end of the events of 2010.

Of course, I can play your game and highlight the number of civilian casualties versus military or highlight the use of army snipers (what's this about shotgun pellets below knees?) and bring up (again) the intentional killing of neutral parties such as journalists and nurses.

[NCFC]

So now we need to examine the autopsy reports and fin out how many dead and wounded were shot in the legs with buckshot. I think none were.

I think high powered rifles were used and most were shot in the head or in the back.

So either someone is lieing or someone is not obeying orders.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Fat Haggis]

Suthep, whether you love him or loathe him had to make a very difficult decision during that time, the order to use live rounds knowing full well of the consequences of their use will forever be his burden to bear, I don't believe for one minute he made the decision lightly either, or alone, and took any great pleasure in doing so.

I don't believe he's a cold blooded murderer anymore than Yingluck was, which might come as a surprise to many

Get real! The man is ruthless and will do anything to get his way..........He is a murderer, end of story.

All Businessmen, Politicians and Military Leaders are ruthless to an extent, you don't win contracts, votes, or wars for being a pussy !!

I totally respect your point of view, however, have you ever had to make a decision that is about to result in the possibility of taking of someones life or made a decision that cost the loss of life?

based on your sentiments, if anything he would be guilty of "conspiracy to murder" but a judge will have to prove beyond all reasonable doubt that the intent was to kill the protesters without remorse and extreme prejudice.

[rabas]

If the rambunctious reds were worried about having a limb blown off, they probably should not have been trying to burn down central Bangkok and carrying out a terror campaign to reinstall their dictator of choice. I could have told them myself it would only end in tears.

" If the rambunctious reds were worried about having a limb blown off, they probably should not have been trying to burn down central Bangkok"

I think you've got the sequence of events wrong. The use of live ammunition against protesters preceded the arson you're referring to....

Remind me again when were Col Romklao and other soldiers killed?

You're missing the point... the suggestion was that the use of live ammunition was in response to the arson, which was clearly not the case... That happened at the end of the events of 2010.

Of course, I can play your game and highlight the number of civilian casualties versus military or highlight the use of army snipers (what's this about shotgun pellets below knees?) and bring up (again) the intentional killing of neutral parties such as journalists and nurses.

and bring up (again) the intentional killing of neutral parties such as journalists and nurses.

Do you have any evidence who was targeting nurses, ambulance personnel, international journalists and people in the temple?

[northernjohn]

Suthep, whether you love him or loathe him had to make a very difficult decision during that time, the order to use live rounds knowing full well of the consequences of their use will forever be his burden to bear, I don't believe for one minute he made the decision lightly either, or alone, and took any great pleasure in doing so.

I don't believe he's a cold blooded murderer anymore than Yingluck was, which might come as a surprise to many

Get real! The man is ruthless and will do anything to get his way..........He is a murderer, end of story.

Well if he had not been ruthless we would still have the PTP draining the countries treasury for their off shore bank accounts. So yes he is ruthless out off necessity.

He is just as guilty of murder as Yingluck is. So if you say she is guilty so is he. If you say she is not guilty so is he.

[northernjohn]

" If the rambunctious reds were worried about having a limb blown off, they probably should not have been trying to burn down central Bangkok"

I think you've got the sequence of events wrong. The use of live ammunition against protesters preceded the arson you're referring to....

Remind me again when were Col Romklao and other soldiers killed?

You're missing the point... the suggestion was that the use of live ammunition was in response to the arson, which was clearly not the case... That happened at the end of the events of 2010.

Of course, I can play your game and highlight the number of civilian casualties versus military or highlight the use of army snipers (what's this about shotgun pellets below knees?) and bring up (again) the intentional killing of neutral parties such as journalists and nurses.

the intentional killing of neutral parties such as journalists and nurses.

You have proof that it was intentional.

Or are you just making that up to justify the red shirts actions.

I suspect you know the truth but are unwilling to admit it so you come up with stories like that to ease your conscience.

[Torrens54]

Suthep admitted ordering troops to shoot at rioters with real shotguns but at below the knee level

Oh, that's OK then. What a fine upstanding gentleman.

If you take the trouble to Read the above report, you will see that the order was to: Shoot below the knee level in Self Defense, when the men in black commenced firing Assault Rifles at those who were sent to control the rabble.

Have YOU ever been faced with anyone, let alone a bunch of Street Rabble firing Assault Rifles at you?

If so, what prey tell, did you do?

Perchance, you smiled and "blew a few kisses at them" or perhaps your Dry Cleaner may have a different story as to what you did?

Edited June 9, 2014 by Torrens54

[AloisAmrein]

Why is this fascist still running free and not in jail yet? And the army seems to protect him because they are at his side.

[fasteddie]

Suthep admitted ordering troops to shoot at rioters with real shotguns but at below the knee level

Oh, that's OK then. What a fine upstanding gentleman.

Some buildings still upstanding thanks to him putting an end to the ludicrous terror and rioting, looting and burning.

Ah yes, nothing like killing nurses, medics, journalists and innocent bystanders to stop the protests started by the fascist overthrow of an elected government.

[fasteddie]

So, at last, for all you Abhisit haters, it wasn't him that gave the order.

As for the shooting "order" itself, I'm surprised it didn't come much, much sooner when dealing with armed terrorists that were terrorizing the civilian population at the time. They had plenty of warnings to leave, they chose to stay, they chose to shoot, bomb, kill, maim and terrorize.

At the end of the day, Thaksin got exactly what he wanted at that time . . . and he paid well for it I am sure.

As small correction to your first line - this is Suthep's version of events. I don't think they are quite through with him yet.

I think the casualties has more to do with the RTA not being up for the task of crowd control and dispersal. You cannot

seriously claim that all those killed were armed, or even wore black shirts.

They were idiots raising hell, shooting and rioting, and paid and dressed in red, told to go home, fought troops, who got what they certainly sought & deserved; that we can claim.

What a load of reactionary right wing claptrap. You really are a nasty piece of work.

[Chris Lawrence]

Suthep admitted ordering troops to shoot at rioters with real shotguns but at below the knee level

Oh, that's OK then. What a fine upstanding gentleman.

Some buildings still upstanding thanks to him putting an end to the ludicrous terror and rioting, looting and burning.

Yes and there are some childern that still miss their mums dads and relatives?

[Thai at Heart]

Well I am sorry, but why on earth is a civilian politician leading the command of soldiers in this context?

What the hell does he know about crowd control or the lethality of shooting shotguns anywhere at anyone. Absolutely ludicrous situation .

He deserves the book thrown at him for issuing idiotic lethal orders.

[diehard60]

Suthep admitted ordering troops to shoot at rioters with real shotguns but at below the knee level

Oh, that's OK then. What a fine upstanding gentleman.

Some buildings still upstanding thanks to him putting an end to the ludicrous terror and rioting, looting and burning.

I think you got it backwards. The shooting started first. By suthep and abhisit

[diehard60]

Suthep admitted ordering troops to shoot at rioters with real shotguns but at below the knee level

Oh, that's OK then. What a fine upstanding gentleman.

If you take the trouble to Read the above report, you will see that the order was to: Shoot below the knee level in Self Defense, when the men in black commenced firing Assault Rifles at those who were sent to control the rabble.

Have YOU ever been faced with anyone, let alone a bunch of Street Rabble firing Assault Rifles at you?

If so, what prey tell, did you do?

Perchance, you smiled and "blew a few kisses at them" or perhaps your Dry Cleaner may have a different story as to what you did?

You need to learn how to read. The order was to shoot below the knee. Then when others started shooting they shot in self defense. Were you there when this was going on?

[jaidam]

Suthep admitted ordering troops to shoot at rioters with real shotguns but at below the knee level

Oh, that's OK then. What a fine upstanding gentleman.

Some buildings still upstanding thanks to him putting an end to the ludicrous terror and rioting, looting and burning.

Yes and there are some childern that still miss their mums dads and relatives?

I don't see the relevance of you bringing in the Thaksin war on drugs which saw thousands of innocent men, woman and children gunned down by balaclava wearing murderers to this thread. Of course they miss their executed family members.

[diehard60]

So, at last, for all you Abhisit haters, it wasn't him that gave the order.

As for the shooting "order" itself, I'm surprised it didn't come much, much sooner when dealing with armed terrorists that were terrorizing the civilian population at the time. They had plenty of warnings to leave, they chose to stay, they chose to shoot, bomb, kill, maim and terrorize.

At the end of the day, Thaksin got exactly what he wanted at that time . . . and he paid well for it I am sure.

Were you there? I know you must be talking about suthep. Right?

[Tatsujin]

So, at last, for all you Abhisit haters, it wasn't him that gave the order.

As for the shooting "order" itself, I'm surprised it didn't come much, much sooner when dealing with armed terrorists that were terrorizing the civilian population at the time. They had plenty of warnings to leave, they chose to stay, they chose to shoot, bomb, kill, maim and terrorize.

At the end of the day, Thaksin got exactly what he wanted at that time . . . and he paid well for it I am sure.

Were you there? I know you must be talking about suthep. Right?

What are you blathering on about? Was I where?