How does Qudricep strength off load a knee ?

[skippybangkok]

All knee drs will tell u increasing muscle strength off loads the knee / meniscus,

I am confused, as weight on knee pushing down from body is the same.... So how does a stronger muscle make load on knee lighter ?

[h90]

Load is the same, but the joint is holded in exact position. When the knees are a bit loose and out of position it gets pretty nasty.

Just imagine it as a bearing and than think what happens if it is out of position, you have a lot force on just one edge.

(I am no doctor but did a lot extreme sports and have some damaged knees)

[skippybangkok]

Cheers....

Kind of explains it. A loose bearing will wear , just for the life of me was miffed how extra strength in leg muscle helped the load reduction

Got it !

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[h90]

Cheers....

Kind of explains it. A loose bearing will wear , just for the life of me was miffed how extra strength in leg muscle helped the load reduction

Got it !

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

I think it is over simplified but the best I can as technician, not being a doctor :-)

On the shoulder if you train one muscle too much and neglect the others it may happen that the joint goes out of its perfect position which causes some problems. Don't know if that can happen to the knee as well.

As well in a therapy they once told me if you don't use a joint it gets kind of stiff...but can't recall the reason....sure someone here knows more.

At the end you have less wear on the joint when you use it, different than on mechanical bearings.....

[skippybangkok]

Ahhh.... famous case of wheel falling of a B747 for KLM.... axel broke. Cause "Brineling"...... AC parked for along time, never moved, metal is like chewing gum, and the bearings made dents in the metal ring........

so bearings need to move too ( thats why never leave your car in gear as a break, it brinels the bearings.

[h90]

Ahhh.... famous case of wheel falling of a B747 for KLM.... axel broke. Cause "Brineling"...... AC parked for along time, never moved, metal is like chewing gum, and the bearings made dents in the metal ring........

so bearings need to move too ( thats why never leave your car in gear as a break, it brinels the bearings.

On joints, moving activates self-regeneration and initiate (someone correct me if I am wrong) the lubrication.

Therefor some extreme bodybuilders have way less joint problems than some lazy people who never move (they have against common sense more wear).

(bodybuilding is a good example because they move impressive weights, but they move them slow it is way easier on the joint than lets say skying or running where a lot shocks with real big forces happen)

[papa al]

Right, the menisci will be bearing the weight regardless of mm strength.

Meniscus healing is problematic as it lacks much vascularity for nutrient supply.

Exercise may enhance the supply some.

The stabilization arguments have validity.

Mini squats, depth and reps as tolerated, for quads, or cycling machine.

[h90]

Right, the menisci will be bearing the weight regardless of mm strength.

Meniscus healing is problematic as it lacks much vascularity for nutrient supply.

Exercise may enhance the supply some.

The stabilization arguments have validity.

Mini squats, depth and reps as tolerated, for quads, or cycling machine.

What are mini squats? For me on squats when the feet are far from each other it feels as the knee has some side torque. Better to have the feet not to far from each other?

(my knees are several times damaged but seem to have good meniscus)

[skippybangkok]

Thanks - no meniscus so no regeneration there.

I have now 3 kg ankle weights to build up quads, dr says he will be happy when I can do 5.

( straight leg horizontal lift )

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[h90]

Thanks - no meniscus so no regeneration there.

I have now 3 kg ankle weights to build up quads, dr says he will be happy when I can do 5.

( straight leg horizontal lift )

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Here are a lot people who do a lot exercises, from just keep the muscles when on diet to real bodybuilding. Sure someone can give you additional recommendations.

I am doing squats and deathlifts and while it is unpleasant it is somehow addictive and I always want to be able to lift more.....

[papa al]

Right, the menisci will be bearing the weight regardless of mm strength.

Meniscus healing is problematic as it lacks much vascularity for nutrient supply.

Exercise may enhance the supply some.

The stabilization arguments have validity.

Mini squats, depth and reps as tolerated, for quads, or cycling machine.

What are mini squats? For me on squats when the feet are far from each other it feels as the knee has some side torque. Better to have the feet not to far from each other?

(my knees are several times damaged but seem to have good meniscus)

For people with bad knees:

Mini squats avoid flexing the knees beyond comfort, i.e., not into painful range.

Feet positioned ~shoulder width or so.

Range [flexion] can be increased over time.

Extremely slow reps [30 sec.down; 30sec up] build strength with minimum strain on joint.

This enhances stability & proprioception.

Sounds easy but muscles will scream.

Quick reps for a cardio/weight loss goal.

Deeper squats with just body weight for individuals` with good knees: 100 reps twice daily for a month will tone up the quads for sure.

[papa al]

Thanks - no meniscus so no regeneration there.

I have now 3 kg ankle weights to build up quads, dr says he will be happy when I can do 5.

( straight leg horizontal lift )

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Straight leg raises work the hip flexor muscles [illiopsoas]; quads not so much.

What is your doctor's goal with this exercise?

Many will choose knee replacement major surgery when meniscus is absent.

Strengthening the muscles before Sx is a good idea.

Edited June 13, 2014 by papa al

[h90]

Right, the menisci will be bearing the weight regardless of mm strength.

Meniscus healing is problematic as it lacks much vascularity for nutrient supply.

Exercise may enhance the supply some.

The stabilization arguments have validity.

Mini squats, depth and reps as tolerated, for quads, or cycling machine.

What are mini squats? For me on squats when the feet are far from each other it feels as the knee has some side torque. Better to have the feet not to far from each other?

(my knees are several times damaged but seem to have good meniscus)

For people with bad knees:

Mini squats avoid flexing the knees beyond comfort, i.e., not into painful range.

Feet positioned ~shoulder width or so.

Range [flexion] can be increased over time.

Extremely slow reps [30 sec.down; 30sec up] build strength with minimum strain on joint.

This enhances stability & proprioception.

Sounds easy but muscles will scream.

Quick reps for a cardio/weight loss goal.

Deeper squats with just body weight for individuals` with good knees: 100 reps twice daily for a month will tone up the quads for sure.

I would do it only every second day to give the muscle time to regenerate. And if the knees are OK, add some weights but do less than 100 reps.

If the knees are good and you only want to build muscles I would do heavy 3 sets of 10 reps every second day.

[skippybangkok]

Thanks - no meniscus so no regeneration there.

I have now 3 kg ankle weights to build up quads, dr says he will be happy when I can do 5.

( straight leg horizontal lift )

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Straight leg raises work the hip flexor muscles [illiopsoas]; quads not so much.

What is your doctor's goal with this exercise?

Many will choose knee replacement major surgery when meniscus is absent.

Strengthening the muscles before Sx is a good idea.

Thanks alot. What exercise do you recommend for me then for the quads, remembering my cartilage is slowly recovering after an Osteotomy.

As for Knee Replacement, might be popular w Dr's, but i did a lot of research on it, and prefer to stay as natural as possible for as long as possible. TKR sounds good initially, but comes with infection risks ( just getting dental work ), and will need replacement in 10-15 yrs. hoping will tie me over until stem cell can repair the damage better ( looking for meniscus transplant now )

[papa al]

Right, the menisci will be bearing the weight regardless of mm strength.

Meniscus healing is problematic as it lacks much vascularity for nutrient supply.

Exercise may enhance the supply some.

The stabilization arguments have validity.

Mini squats, depth and reps as tolerated, for quads, or cycling machine.

What are mini squats? For me on squats when the feet are far from each other it feels as the knee has some side torque. Better to have the feet not to far from each other?

(my knees are several times damaged but seem to have good meniscus)

For people with bad knees:

Mini squats avoid flexing the knees beyond comfort, i.e., not into painful range.

Feet positioned ~shoulder width or so.

Range [flexion] can be increased over time.

Extremely slow reps [30 sec.down; 30sec up] build strength with minimum strain on joint.

This enhances stability & proprioception.

Sounds easy but muscles will scream.

Quick reps for a cardio/weight loss goal.

Deeper squats with just body weight for individuals` with good knees: 100 reps twice daily for a month will tone up the quads for sure.

I would do it only every second day to give the muscle time to regenerate. And if the knees are OK, add some weights but do less than 100 reps.

If the knees are good and you only want to build muscles I would do heavy 3 sets of 10 reps every second day.

You reiterate the convention wisdom.

If you have an open mind, try my suggest for thirty day & you will like it.

Or not.

[h90]

For people with bad knees:

Mini squats avoid flexing the knees beyond comfort, i.e., not into painful range.

Feet positioned ~shoulder width or so.

Range [flexion] can be increased over time.

Extremely slow reps [30 sec.down; 30sec up] build strength with minimum strain on joint.

This enhances stability & proprioception.

Sounds easy but muscles will scream.

Quick reps for a cardio/weight loss goal.

Deeper squats with just body weight for individuals` with good knees: 100 reps twice daily for a month will tone up the quads for sure.

I would do it only every second day to give the muscle time to regenerate. And if the knees are OK, add some weights but do less than 100 reps.

If the knees are good and you only want to build muscles I would do heavy 3 sets of 10 reps every second day.

You reiterate the convention wisdom.

If you have an open mind, try my suggest for thirty day & you will like it.

Or not.

I am doing squats at the moment every 4th day. Which is a bit too long of a break between, but so it fits best with my other exercises.

Beside the quadriceps it makes a nice butt

With weights it involves a lot other muscles, so surely a good exercise.

[JSixpack]

I find bodyweight squats helpful for my knees, along with some leg extensions (but not from a full bent position).

[moe666]

Building muscle may not solve the problem, my left knee is in need of replacing and over the years I have favored it to minimize damage this can cause tightening of the muscle and less flexibility causing pain in the leg and hip. I see a therapist in Santa Fe New Mexico who is trained in relieving this tension with very simple stretching moves and exercises to facilitate body movement. Do you walk or stand with your feet pointed out this indicates a problem as you are trying to expand your base for more stability. I will find the thread for the site on this Technique.

[JSixpack]

Building muscle may not solve the problem, my left knee is in need of replacing and over the years I have favored it to minimize damage this can cause tightening of the muscle and less flexibility causing pain in the leg and hip. I see a therapist in Santa Fe New Mexico who is trained in relieving this tension with very simple stretching moves and exercises to facilitate body movement. Do you walk or stand with your feet pointed out this indicates a problem as you are trying to expand your base for more stability. I will find the thread for the site on this Technique.

Yes! Forgot to mention stretching, 'cause it's so boring.