Westerners Don't stick up for each other

[RandomSand]

I've seen it plenty of times:

Falang in bother, maybe drunk, maybe stressed in a new country, often being taken for a mug by the locals.

Never have I seen any other westerners stick up for each another. I don't necessarily mean getting into brawls... sometimes just a sharp word from a cooler head can turn a situation around.

I think that this is shameful and makes westerners look weak in the eyes of locals. Obviously we look like we share no comradeship; which is patently untrue.

Does anyone feel the same?

Edited June 20, 2014 by RandomSand

[AYJAYDEE]

why would his country of origin have anything to do with it?

[ClutchClark]

I don't know what "taken for a mug" means.

[RandomSand]

I don't know what "taken for a mug" means.

It means "to be taken advantage of"

[RandomSand]

why would his country of origin have anything to do with it?

You make a good example...

You demonstrate a post-modern, egalitarian paradigm; the kind of thinking which has gained a strong hold in the mind of developed-nations' populations.

However; many westerners are living in SE Asia to escape that whole stream of thought.

Slightly ironic that you try to keep your egalitarian paradigm alive in Thailand... especially when, as a race, we are a minority and are often the subject of discrimination ...in a culture, which itself, doesn't promote those egalitarian values which you hold onto.

I would suggest that westerners should show more solidarity... not only as a stepping-stone, or base, for sticking-up for egalitarian values, but also, because we are a minority yet subject to institutionalized discrimination.

Edited June 20, 2014 by RandomSand

[lazygourmet]

Not my business...

[mesquite]

So the OP has seen this many times, and some of those times the foreigner was drunk.

I've never seen this.

Let's get to the root of the problem. If someone is being taken advantage of while drunk, deal with the drinking problem, which is the root problem, not the Thais taking advantage.

http://aathailand.org lists AA meetings here in Thailand. I think you'll find the people in those meetings would be willing to help you with your problem.

Edited June 20, 2014 by mesquite

[RandomSand]

So the OP has seen this many times, and some of those times the foreigner was drunk.

I've never seen this.

Let's get to the root of the problem. If someone is being taken advantage of while drunk, deal with the drinking problem, which is the root problem, not the Thais taking advantage.

http://aathailand.org lists AA meetings here in Thailand. I think you'll find the people in those meetings would be willing to help you with your problem.

What problem? I don't drink anything but mineral water.

Honestly I don't see why you even replied in this thread.

Further; I've never had any problem with Thai people, more than two years in Thailand, fwiw.

Edited June 20, 2014 by RandomSand

[shirtless]

Why place a target on yourself,

[cgphuket]

After too many times of trying to help out, or give solid advice to a tourist or recent expat and not only not being appreciated, but being giving the "yeagh yeagh, I know everything about everything already" response, I let them crash and burn on their own. you can't fix stupid.

[JAFO]

@ OP,

Here is my POV on your subject. Typically when an individual steps into help another and alcohol is involved that "Nice" guy usually gets clobbered or gets wrapped up in something that ends up doing the exact opposite of what they intended it to do.

So I say, Its really none of your business(or mine for that matter) and probably advisable to just stay out of it. While hard to watch, I agree, shame on them for not being a bit smarter.

[AYJAYDEE]

why would his country of origin have anything to do with it?

You make a good example...

You demonstrate a post-modern, egalitarian paradigm; the kind of thinking which has gained a strong hold in the mind of developed-nations' populations.

However; many westerners are living in SE Asia to escape that whole stream of thought.

Slightly ironic that you try to keep your egalitarian paradigm alive in Thailand... especially when, as a race, we are a minority and are often the subject of discrimination ...in a culture, which itself, doesn't promote those egalitarian values which you hold onto.

I would suggest that westerners should show more solidarity... not only as a stepping-stone, or base, for sticking-up for egalitarian values, but also, because we are a minority yet subject to institutionalized discrimination.

why would I show more solidarity with a western tourist or expat that screws up over a japanese, korean, malay or chinese tourist in the same boat? seems kinda stupid.

[Somsrisonphimai]

They don't stick up for each other because they are individualistic.

[Robroona]

How many times does a TV member post about a problem, only to be torn to pieces by the idiots who frequent this forum? It is not only a case of not helping, but very evident that some members actually enjoy the baiting process.

Maybe something we all have within us? Hope not.

[ClutchClark]

I don't know what "taken for a mug" means.

It means "to be taken advantage of"

Thanks ;-)

I have not seen this often but the times I have then I have spoken up. I take great satisfaction in stopping people trying to fleece others. Sometimes its a farang doing the fleecing to another farang--same result--I expose it.

I thought you were saying that farangs were getting assaulted or physically intimidated.

From my experience its the Aussies who have another farangs back in a tight spot.

[WitawatWatawit]

There are a lot if westerners out there, and few I have anything in common with. Being a westerner is a concept not a tie that binds.

This is all very naive, RS.

[ivan96822]

I think white men in general (and I am white and proud to be white) have stood up for themselves to the point that as adults, we can take care of ourselves and "have our shit together."

If there is another white male looking bad in any way, shape, or form, it is a sign of weakness. I think the problem is his problem to deal with.

While this may not be a positive way to look at this issue, I think it is realistic.

[ClutchClark]

@ OP,

Here is my POV on your subject. Typically when an individual steps into help another and alcohol is involved that "Nice" guy usually gets clobbered or gets wrapped up in something that ends up doing the exact opposite of what they intended it to do.

So I say, Its really none of your business(or mine for that matter) and probably advisable to just stay out of it. While hard to watch, I agree, shame on them for not being a bit smarter.

I saw a farang tourist with his wife and kids being aggressively confronted by a madman motorbike rental shop owner. The farang kept backing away and standing to protect his family and apologizing loudly for the misunderstanding. Another mechanic came out from the shop with a wrench. A few motorbike taxi operators loitering about started smelling blood and joined in the pack.

I walked over and stood slightly off the farangs 4 o'clock. Another farang casually walked up on his 8 o'clock.

The Thai shopowner was crazy with rage--first time I saw it here.

Because I know my fellow farangs and I can size up what kind of people they are (alcoholics, druggies, scammers, or good people) then I am more inclined to offer assistance than if its a nationality I do not have much insight into (for instance, Russian, Indian or Paki or SE Asian).

But then I don't go to bars except maybe a pint of Guinness once a month so I don't see much of the incidents you describe. But I suppose if I saw a clean-cut farang getting thoroughly stomped then I would still attempt to have some effect rather than stand and watch. By having some effect, I am not saying physically necessarily. There is more than one way to change the focus of an event.

[ClutchClark]

There are a lot if westerners out there, and few I have anything in common with. Being a westerner is a concept not a tie that binds.

This is all very naive, RS.

You feel no kinship if you saw a westerner in trouble?

Hmmm...must be a generational thing.

I am older, when I see young people I can't help to think of my grandkids. When I see middle-aged people I can't help but think of my kids.

Some people care for others...others don't.

Your post does make me wonder my position though because I would not want to risk my neck for a guy with your attitude. In fact, a guy with your attitude might have deserved the lesson being taught him.

Just sayin' ;-)

[ClutchClark]

After too many times of trying to help out, or give solid advice to a tourist or recent expat and not only not being appreciated, but being giving the "yeagh yeagh, I know everything about everything already" response, I let them crash and burn on their own. you can't fix stupid.

I suppose thats one difference between me and you and the guys who like your attitude.

The difference being zi don't hang out with stupid people ;-)

[WitawatWatawit]

There are a lot if westerners out there, and few I have anything in common with. Being a westerner is a concept not a tie that binds.

This is all very naive, RS.

You feel no kinship if you saw a westerner in trouble?

Hmmm...must be a generational thing.

I am older, when I see young people I can't help to think of my grandkids. When I see middle-aged people I can't help but think of my kids.

Some people care for others...others don't.

Your post does make me wonder my position though because I would not want to risk my neck for a guy with your attitude. In fact, a guy with your attitude might have deserved the lesson being taught him.

Just sayin' ;-)

Boy, you are trigger happy today. Think a bit more carefully before you jump in with a reply. Just because you are a Caucasian like me doesn't mean I should feel "kinship" (as you put it) towards you. No binding ties, as I said, just because you are white. But It also doesn't mean I wouldn't help. Most expats here that I know have no qualms about helping someone of any race or nationality if they can. A bit of translation or directions, for example. But when it comes to drunks, things change - help them into a taxi or t o their room, yeah, no probs. But in an aggressive situation, that's a different story. Good for you if you want to help, but I don't need another heart attack, thank you. (If there are kids involved, then it all changes - I'll risk anither heart attack to protect a kid.)

[ClutchClark]

There are a lot if westerners out there, and few I have anything in common with. Being a westerner is a concept not a tie that binds.

This is all very naive, RS.

You feel no kinship if you saw a westerner in trouble?

Hmmm...must be a generational thing.

I am older, when I see young people I can't help to think of my grandkids. When I see middle-aged people I can't help but think of my kids.

Some people care for others...others don't.

Your post does make me wonder my position though because I would not want to risk my neck for a guy with your attitude. In fact, a guy with your attitude might have deserved the lesson being taught him.

Just sayin' ;-)

Boy, you are trigger happy today. Think a bit more carefully before you jump in with a reply. Just because you are a Caucasian like me doesn't mean I should feel "kinship" (as you put it) towards you. No binding ties, as I said, just because you are white. But It also doesn't mean I wouldn't help. Most expats here that I know have no qualms about helping someone of any race or nationality if they can. A bit of translation or directions, for example. But when it comes to drunks, things change - help them into a taxi or t o their room, yeah, no probs. But in an aggressive situation, that's a different story. Good for you if you want to help, but I don't need another heart attack, thank you. (If there are kids involved, then it all changes - I'll risk anither heart attack to protect a kid.)

Dang, I was trying to respond to that ivan character with the post below yours.

Apology.

Edited June 20, 2014 by ClutchClark

[Berkshire]

I will always stick up for my friends or family, whether they are farang,Thai, Korean, Japanese....whatever. But strangers, not so much. Especially if in a bar and the individual is drunk. There would certainly be situations where I would help out a stranger, but it would have nothing to do with their race.

[chrisinth]

IMHO, cgphuket got it right (in my personal experience as well) in post #10 with his observation that some people won't listen to advice and raise barriers to ensure it stays that way.

To be honest, the only time I would even consider helping a complete stranger, without being asked, is if someone was about to be ambushed and likely to sustain life threatening injuries. But I would do that for anyone regardless of colour, race or religion.

That would apply in my home country as well, to complete strangers. Family & friends are different...............

[transam]

After too many times of trying to help out, or give solid advice to a tourist or recent expat and not only not being appreciated, but being giving the "yeagh yeagh, I know everything about everything already" response, I let them crash and burn on their own. you can't fix stupid.

I will go with that......

Met a few with their head so far up their jacksie I have become a bit of a loner.

[rott]

why would his country of origin have anything to do with it?

You make a good example...

You demonstrate a post-modern, egalitarian paradigm; the kind of thinking which has gained a strong hold in the mind of developed-nations' populations.

However; many westerners are living in SE Asia to escape that whole stream of thought.

Slightly ironic that you try to keep your egalitarian paradigm alive in Thailand... especially when, as a race, we are a minority and are often the subject of discrimination ...in a culture, which itself, doesn't promote those egalitarian values which you hold onto.

I would suggest that westerners should show more solidarity... not only as a stepping-stone, or base, for sticking-up for egalitarian values, but also, because we are a minority yet subject to institutionalized discrimination.

"post-modern, egalitarian paradigm", that sounds good I think I will use it myself sometime.

Is it the same as broadly being unpatriotic??

The attitude that a certain type of left-ieaning english person thinks is cool??

[RandomSand]

why would his country of origin have anything to do with it?

You make a good example...

You demonstrate a post-modern, egalitarian paradigm; the kind of thinking which has gained a strong hold in the mind of developed-nations' populations.

However; many westerners are living in SE Asia to escape that whole stream of thought.

Slightly ironic that you try to keep your egalitarian paradigm alive in Thailand... especially when, as a race, we are a minority and are often the subject of discrimination ...in a culture, which itself, doesn't promote those egalitarian values which you hold onto.

I would suggest that westerners should show more solidarity... not only as a stepping-stone, or base, for sticking-up for egalitarian values, but also, because we are a minority yet subject to institutionalized discrimination.

"post-modern, egalitarian paradigm", that sounds good I think I will use it myself sometime.

Is it the same as broadly being unpatriotic??

The attitude that a certain type of left-ieaning english person thinks is cool??

De rigueur... The kids drunk too much much Kool-Aid, and now, they're in charge of the whole show.

Edited June 20, 2014 by RandomSand

[ClutchClark]

Boy, you are trigger happy today. Think a bit more carefully before you jump in with a reply. Just because you are a Caucasian like me doesn't mean I should feel "kinship" (as you put it) towards you. No binding ties, as I said, just because you are white. But It also doesn't mean I wouldn't help. Most expats here that I know have no qualms about helping someone of any race or nationality if they can. A bit of translation or directions, for example. But when it comes to drunks, things change - help them into a taxi or t o their room, yeah, no probs. But in an aggressive situation, that's a different story. Good for you if you want to help, but I don't need another heart attack, thank you. (If there are kids involved, then it all changes - I'll risk anither heart attack to protect a kid.)

Witawat,

Thanks for your post and observation.

Made me realize my blood sugar was off.

Appreciate it.

Edited June 20, 2014 by ClutchClark

[benalibina]

The other side of the coin is that Thai people will stick up for each other. In or outside Thailand. Be it right or not, they do.

Recently i heard something shocking, kidsrelated, from a familymember of my wife, from 2 years ago.. Reason for nobody telling me about it, upon me asking, was.....they were more familiair with my wife........and did not dare, more...want, to tell me.

For me ...right is right and wrong is wrong.....regardless of colour, race, gender etc.

For the posters who try to do good and tell the, absolute, truth to an unaware other...you act like how you would like to be informed if it were happening to you.....thats a good thing aint it ?

[muchogra]

OP, yes, I feel the same as you. I used to have this feeling about Westerners upholding a certain things, not the democracy crap though. Since joining TV, my perspective on Westerners has taken a U-turn. Perhaps, I won't be so innocently friendly to other Westerners from now on.