Westerners Don't stick up for each other

[RandomSand]

why would his country of origin have anything to do with it?

You make a good example...

You demonstrate a post-modern, egalitarian paradigm; the kind of thinking which has gained a strong hold in the mind of developed-nations' populations.

However; many westerners are living in SE Asia to escape that whole stream of thought.

Slightly ironic that you try to keep your egalitarian paradigm alive in Thailand... especially when, as a race, we are a minority and are often the subject of discrimination ...in a culture, which itself, doesn't promote those egalitarian values which you hold onto.

I would suggest that westerners should show more solidarity... not only as a stepping-stone, or base, for sticking-up for egalitarian values, but also, because we are a minority yet subject to institutionalized discrimination.

So give examples of when you have shown 'solidarity' and stood up for 'egalitarian' values? When a farang is in an argument and it is clearly his/her fault, would you still support him/her or would you go against your own 'egalitarian' values?

I'll give you an example, but not in reply to your question as the concept of 'egalitarian' values` is getting distorted. It's my own fault as I can't put things simply (as demonstrated above!)

So for example; One time I was waiting in line to exit Laos and enter Thailand. I could just sense that the Lao immigration guys were ready to start extorting money as "exit fee". The reason was that many Lao people were all paying there way through and I heard some westerners starting to check their wallets. I clocked immigration clocking them checking their wallets and saw the glint in their eyes about a possible "made up fee exit fee". I turned to several of the westerners behind me, and said to them, " there's no way we need to pay any exit fee" "I won't be paying it and neither should you". So I went first, trying to act confident knowing that if the guys behind had made their mind not to pay, and saw me not paying, then I myself would not even get asked. We all went through without being asked for "exit fee" afaik. Why? Because we had grouped-up a little bit, decided how we would handle the situation, and then went with it. If we hadn't then I'm sure we would have been out of pocket or at least in some messy argument causing us to miss the waiting bus.

[RandomSand]

The OP beliefs/philosophy would make Mr. Gandhi and Mr Martin Luther King weaklings.

once a thai was using an inebriated caucasian as a punching bag after he was already on the ground not resisting. i asked in thai if he thought that is enough already? and i invited him to eat. i did it in a non menacing way. he left not wanting to eat with me. not sticking up for the guy based on race but on feeling sorry for him.

Excellent. You might have saved his life by choosing to open your mouth.

[mrowe1973]

Unfortunately, I have seen far to many westerns behave worse then the locals. Two drunk guys in a bar fighting over one cigaret. I mean what's a pack of cigarets cost in Thialand? A couple a guys stole my table at a restruant when I went to the restroom. I politely asked for my table back and they wanted to fight. I'm on vacation to enjoy myself not get in some useless argument or fight with a couple of hot shots. Furthermore the westerners that do go Thialand are of extremely poor character in their home country. Some of them really keep Interpol busy. I try to stay away from the drunken western population when I can.

[gigman]

I will always stick up for my friends or family, whether they are farang,Thai, Korean, Japanese....whatever. But strangers, not so much. Especially if in a bar and the individual is drunk. There would certainly be situations where I would help out a stranger, but it would have nothing to do with their race.

Same .with me....

First of all we must forget our differences and be able have respect other cultures and this is the key to start.( which is hard thing to swallow for many people ...even for me ..but i am always willing to learn)

I am living in the outback of BKK where so far being here for 6 mths did not meet any farang because only Thai lives here.

I feel kind of dinosaur here but another hand I also feel that I've been watched all the time as a strange white creature in their"pond" ...and I feel actually good 555.

To be honest they are more friendly and polite to me that I really require.

My point is ;

1.I did not give them any example of my bad nature hence why should I get the same ?

2.Another thing is that probably local people did not have bad experience with farangs either.....

3.Did all those we left behind in our countries are so good nature and friendly???

4." There is no fire with no spark" and can not judge the situation without knowing whole scenario because I still remember how polite I had to be when coming to very rude mechanics in Australia to have serviced my car. ...where actually you can find very friendly types also until time comes to paying bill if something what was not fixed properly by them.

(You should see different behavior of some mechanics where I finally start talking back with my knowledge ...555)

It means what the different to be here or in past countries?

We are here minorities hence extra caution must be taken being everywhere in the world ! and only the different scenario will be if the locals experienced more or less bad behavior from us.

I never forget how I was treated 34 years ago in Australia coming there as emigrant from Europe.....even small kids call us names in public just because we where looking better and did not speak their language ...(.not to mention that we where really polite and friendly to them)

Australia today is different and many things have changed for much better but it does not mean that everything is so rosy for those ones who being able to speak their language but still having foreigner accent....who helped to build their country and gave really good example of human being..

How should I blame Thais ???

I do not blame country I am not able to fully understand their culture and not being able to speak their language same way they do and even if some are able then still rising voice can be a spark.

Usually anger without a cause comes from uneducated and jealous people...(not to mention a drunk ones)

In final ...what is the answer?

We are just humans ! 5555

I think that everyone should do own business being here and learn day by day.

Do not blame whole country if something not nice happen to you because this can happen anywhere in the world at any time .

More good things happened to me in Thailand so far that in the same time anywhere else in the world !

First of all I never had a more peaceful time in my life in my whole life as now....and I am a bit boring because of that ....but I am happy living here learning their culture and language. 555

P.S

long time ago my IT teacher told me about computers ; "Do not expect that computer will do everything for you because , computer will help you always if you help him"

Simply saying in comparison to our life; If you give him Sh##t you get the same back . 55555

Have a good Thai day ....(with respect)

[soalbundy]

Help?......An attractive well endowed naive young woman perhaps,otherwise i would hope that the lord of hosts is with him

[Suradit69]

why would his country of origin have anything to do with it?

You make a good example...

You demonstrate a post-modern, egalitarian paradigm; the kind of thinking which has gained a strong hold in the mind of developed-nations' populations.

However; many westerners are living in SE Asia to escape that whole stream of thought.

Slightly ironic that you try to keep your egalitarian paradigm alive in Thailand... especially when, as a race, we are a minority and are often the subject of discrimination ...in a culture, which itself, doesn't promote those egalitarian values which you hold onto.

I would suggest that westerners should show more solidarity... not only as a stepping-stone, or base, for sticking-up for egalitarian values, but also, because we are a minority yet subject to institutionalized discrimination.

What rubbish. "Post modern,egalitarian paradigm?" And this, boys and girls, demonstrates the obvious danger of small minds in a collision with big ideas. Thanks for the laughs.

Many westerners come to SE Asia to escape pompous, self-serving, xenophobic racists that spout nonsense and attempt to impose their constipated world-view on everyone. "We" aren't a minority until you define "we" and I refuse to be lumped together with others based on race or nationality or otherwise to be subject to discrimination that you seem to want to impose on me. There is certainly no "we" involved with me and people who think like you.

"not only as a stepping-stone, or base"

If you hunger for solidarity with others you consider in some way superior (such as the drunks cited in the O/P), then stay at home, put on a hooded costume and burn crosses on lawns in your own neighborhood. Just be careful of open flames with all the alcohol soaked brains in your cabal.

Edited June 21, 2014 by Suradit69

[soalbundy]

I came to get away from the PC brigade but they have beaten me to it,they are all over the place. Many years ago in Chiang Mai i saw a Canadian remonstrating with an Englishman that he had taken his 10 Baht lighter last night and not returned it,it was the principal he said,not the worth that mattered, the Canadian then got punched in the mouth,what a joy to behold,made my evening.

[techboy]

why would his country of origin have anything to do with it?

You make a good example...

You demonstrate a post-modern, egalitarian paradigm; the kind of thinking which has gained a strong hold in the mind of developed-nations' populations.

However; many westerners are living in SE Asia to escape that whole stream of thought.

Slightly ironic that you try to keep your egalitarian paradigm alive in Thailand... especially when, as a race, we are a minority and are often the subject of discrimination ...in a culture, which itself, doesn't promote those egalitarian values which you hold onto.

I would suggest that westerners should show more solidarity... not only as a stepping-stone, or base, for sticking-up for egalitarian values, but also, because we are a minority yet subject to institutionalized discrimination.

You demonstrate the pseudointellectual need to turn a simple query about a bar room dynamic into a major socio-political issue. There is no egalitarian paradigm suggested in the question per se. Just some drunks who cannot be bothered watching out for the other guy. And BTW I disagree with this observation- Most of the time if something dodgy is going on another patron of an establishment will give the guy a heads-up.

[DrTuner]

I'm a firm believer in the "mind your own business" rule and regard the Thais with similar attitude absolutely correct. Nationality has zero to do with it.

[wwest5829]

I would and have stopped to help a farang motorbike driver from the road. I would help a stranger in need if the situation deemed it the correct action. However, depends...especially if the person was not sober and lucid. At 5'5" I have to feel I can help but not be a target for unvented issues.

As to coming from an egalitarian point of reference...OK, I confess. When friends asked why resettle in Thailand I pointed out traditionally 1). Older folks were held in more regard than my home culture 2). If you had more education that was held in higher regard than my home culture 3). If you had resonable amount of money you were held in higher regard and finally 4). If a young lady could count on being taken care of, there is a good chance that you could get some attention. Ha! What's not to love!

You understand as an American and a Democrat I am a conflicted individual!

Edited June 21, 2014 by wwest5829

[soalbundy]

i agree 100% with the post.....people should stick together in a foreign country like here, to find help and real good information.

we are too individual and think we can do everything alone and this is wrong.

thats why all around the world to be stronger you will find chinna town, litle italy or only spanish areas.....they are really smarter than we are here.

You mean the mafia right?

[techboy]

I disagree. Usually just the opposite. If I see someone that looks like they are being had I tell them what they should be paying and if I see a local tout that I know is a rip off I warn people. Same has been done for me.

[soalbundy]

I disagree. Usually just the opposite. If I see someone that looks like they are being had I tell them what they should be paying and if I see a local tout that I know is a rip off I warn people. Same has been done for me.

How deep did the knife go in after the tout saw you ruining his business?

[joshstiles]

I am in 100% agreement with you. It is a peculiarity that I do not understand, yet I see that it exist everywhere in Thailand. When passing some foreigner on the street....there is an obvious "pretend like you don't see them game" going on. There is no greeting....nothing....not even a glance. It believe that it has something to do with "why" the foreigner left their own country in the first place. I have wondered for years why the foreigners in Thailand do not band together and form some sort of "recognize" organization or "union" that can represent foreigners in Thailand. I believe we could use a "body" to represent us and give support to us when trying to navigate and fight the "thai system" in this country. This could be anything from searching for a place to live to advocating for us when their is a dispute with a school that we may be working for. If we had a "union" or a voice that represented us, perhaps we could be a stronger force in this country and we wouldn't be taken advantage of as so often happens.

[amse]

If your western friends don't stick up for you, then their not your friends, just aquaintences. I have no worry because not only do I have close western friends who will help me anytime, but also close Thai friends who will do the same for me. Perhaps your circle of aquaintences are not of a quality kind?

[cbluck58]

cgphuket has got it right - you can't fix stupid - why should I help someone whose behaviour has embarrassed me to the point of being embarrassed to belong to the same ethnic group.

Drunks deserve everything they get and I am no angel and get drunk myself on occasion, but when I am drunk I keep my mouth shut , go home and sleep it off........

[bangarang]

I don't know what "taken for a mug" means.

It means "to be taken advantage of"

Ahhh... I would have thought mug=beers

[transam]

I don't know what "taken for a mug" means.

It means "to be taken advantage of"

Ahhh... I would have thought mug=beers

Mug is an English word that means a jug or a face or someone who is daft/gullible.......

[Strangebrew]

"Many, especially old farangs display a superiority behavior and are disrespectful to Thais very often when driving. Often the same when Americans are in Mexico. This are people who worked as unskilled blue color workers, are now lucky to get $2000 retirement a month"

​I felt this above comment to be absurd I'm one of those older Blue collar workers Who happens to respect all even the person who made the comment I get well over the stated 2000.00 a Month but in return for that I got to go fight a war instead of going to college to better my education, But with some great investments made my time in the so called unskilled labor Still came out well while my counter parts are still working to pay for there life style that there ex-wives are now enjoying with there new boyfriends. I see them all the time complaining about being screwed.

[Strangebrew]

LOL MUG I just callem Knuckleheads

[AnotherOneAmerican]

why would I show more solidarity with a western tourist or expat that screws up over a japanese, korean, malay or chinese tourist in the same boat? seems kinda stupid.

Mistake!

Falang = White person (not western tourist or expat)

[insiket]

The last time I.felt obliged to stick up for somebody was when a drunk farang got aggresive and threatening with a middle aged thai woman who had kindly asked him not to drink beer at her bar which he had purchased at the 7-11.

Sent from my GT-I8262 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[RandomSand]

why would his country of origin have anything to do with it?

You make a good example...

You demonstrate a post-modern, egalitarian paradigm; the kind of thinking which has gained a strong hold in the mind of developed-nations' populations.

However; many westerners are living in SE Asia to escape that whole stream of thought.

Slightly ironic that you try to keep your egalitarian paradigm alive in Thailand... especially when, as a race, we are a minority and are often the subject of discrimination ...in a culture, which itself, doesn't promote those egalitarian values which you hold onto.

I would suggest that westerners should show more solidarity... not only as a stepping-stone, or base, for sticking-up for egalitarian values, but also, because we are a minority yet subject to institutionalized discrimination.

You demonstrate the pseudointellectual need to turn a simple query about a bar room dynamic into a major socio-political issue. There is no egalitarian paradigm suggested in the question per se. Just some drunks who cannot be bothered watching out for the other guy. And BTW I disagree with this observation- Most of the time if something dodgy is going on another patron of an establishment will give the guy a heads-up.

Incorrect. You read the OP and imagine a single scene only but the OP could apply to multiple situations; not only situations involving alcohol.

Edited June 21, 2014 by RandomSand

[Kondiao]

Reading these reponses to Random Sand's posts I feel sad because there are - as usual - so many abusive things dumped on the man. He brought up a valid point. Yet there were some pertinent responses and i would like to add my 2 cents woirth;: first thing is that, not matter how stongly you relate to Thai people as people just like the rest of us, they relate to you -farang - as something alien. Thai people do not help Thai people when they are in trouble. They watch them drown; they watch them burn or bleed at the side of the road - they take pictures. And they gather around like wolves smelling blood when they see someone doing harm to someone - when they see it is safe to join in the destruction.

This is the cultural anvironment you are in and if you go against this norm you are likely to have that viscious behavior trait focused on you. Stern words and rational talk are effective to defuse conflicts in some cultures, not this one. You know that Thai's would rather go all the way - to kill or cripple you, rather than lose face, admit they were wrong, back down.

The other point that needs to be brought up is that individual farangs in Thailand are more individual here than we were back in the old country. I mean when in society, whether the bar or sex-shop, or beach or department store, the baht bus, the restaurant, we are tending to be bigger, louder, have more face, be more important.... than we were back home. Farangs often dress indecently - according to local standards - talk loudly, sing loudly, yell to each other, as it the people around and in between don't count - like they are just natives. In massage shops, when I am enjoying a treatment, i have to put up with a lound, obnoxious jerk trying hard - in broken English - to make the masseuse do something sexual when she has said she will not; Europeans in Internet cafes yelling into their phones to someone far away, laughing, waving their arms around - like they don't care that they are in public and this public is very sensitive to impolite behavior. At the bars, do you readers think the obnoxious, belligernt behavior of farangs - challenging people do do something about it - is O.K., just because they are drunk? Back in the old country they would have to cool it , or be 86'd from the premises or be beaten down. I am not saying it is all right that farangs get knifed, shot, taken out and left bleeding on the beach or drowing off the docks, but you are not conquering heroes here - you are guests. I am less willing to put myself at risk for guys like you than i would in my own country.

i digressed from the point - the second point - that we farangs are individual and need to take care of our own problems more than we did in our own country and we try to be resourceful enough and strong enough to handle any situation - and we do have our bank accounts and our insurance and a ticket out of the country. Among the European nations I have learned there is still a lot of contempt for each other, stereotyping, even hatred, for those who still remember the old conflicts.. No i would not want to have to rely on you people for help. I would still be grateful if I were down and you came to my aid - and i hope I would help you out - if doing so did not put me much at risk.

This feeling, this trait of brotherhood among farangs that is implied in these posts - it is a very weak link, among other oppossing tendencies.

[stickylies]

i do agree with OP but can't be bothered helping other people unless they are in trouble they didn't cause themselves. i have helped travellers with broken bicycles, i have helped people who stumbled and hurt themselves, i have helped people looking for a place to sleep. i have helped people with travel advice... i have not helped guys being ripped off by whores/gfs and the likes. i don't help drunk people since they are a waste most of the time and emotionally unstable. i never interfear when some *stranger* farang who gets into trouble with *stranger* thai. by doing all this i have never been into trouble myself and wanna keep it that way.

[iancnx]

Perhaps if the OP provided some background to his origins and previous employments or pastimes one could gain some perspective of what he is really trying to get at?

[RandomSand]

Perhaps if the OP provided some background to his origins and previous employments or pastimes one could gain some perspective of what he is really trying to get at?

I stayed two years in Thailand and spent most of my time (80hrs+ week) in my home office; on-line.

Thinking about it; although there are many long term falang residents, there is also a "migratory" falang population composed of those who stay 3 months of the year, holiday-makers, back-packers, etc.

Perhaps this constant fracturing and re-amalgamation of social fabric keeps the individualistic mindset, which we learnt from our native environments, intact. This mindset becomes the "group-think" for one and all.

You have to admit that most migrant populations generally form a common identity and then go on to raise their issues regarding equal rights etc as a group whereas falang in Thailand do not exhibit that behaviour at all.

Edited June 21, 2014 by RandomSand

[morpho]

I look at this as just because I also have white skin does not mean that I am your brother or friend. What I see is a lot of Westerners coming to Thailand with the attitude that they can do whatever they want and thus partake in risky behavior that makes them vulnerable to being taken advantage of. If people would just use some common sense in most cases, they would not get in the disadvantaged positions they find themselves. And when they show a lack of common sense, I find no reason to help bail them out.

Having said that, I can say that I have helped Westerners (who were total strangers) out in several instances when they deserved the help throughout no fault of their own.

[epicstuff]

I know what you're talking about. if there was more support from others, same nationality or not, people would think twice about victimizing others... I think in general all over the world people are less inclined to stand up for the little guy . and will walk right on bye someone's in distress. I think its shameful but those that do turn there face away from helping others always have the excuse lined up that it wasn't there problem or that in someway they brought it on themselves. which in some cases can be true.....

Its not easy deciding whether to intervene sometimes. . I had several experiences where my good intentions have back fired.

[soalbundy]

I am in 100% agreement with you. It is a peculiarity that I do not understand, yet I see that it exist everywhere in Thailand. When passing some foreigner on the street....there is an obvious "pretend like you don't see them game" going on. There is no greeting....nothing....not even a glance. It believe that it has something to do with "why" the foreigner left their own country in the first place. I have wondered for years why the foreigners in Thailand do not band together and form some sort of "recognize" organization or "union" that can represent foreigners in Thailand. I believe we could use a "body" to represent us and give support to us when trying to navigate and fight the "thai system" in this country. This could be anything from searching for a place to live to advocating for us when their is a dispute with a school that we may be working for. If we had a "union" or a voice that represented us, perhaps we could be a stronger force in this country and we wouldn't be taken advantage of as so often happens.

Like a body that '" Fights the Thai system'" in a country where a foreigner owning an air gun represents a security threat to Thailand is going to go down well. There is already a body that you can use to protect your interests....lawyers