Poll shows junta’s rice farmer payment outstanding performance

[prakhonchai nick]

"drug and gambling suppressions of 75.06%"

In the villages around my area, gambling is still going strong, approved by the police, who still receive their daily kickbacks.

Clearly the military have not clamped down strongly enough,

[ajarnsiam]

Actually the junta just paid the debts that YL had been trying to pay for months, but had been blocked by the "democrats".

I wonder how many posters on this thread live in Thailand, or pay tax here or have any personal experience of rice farming in Thailand. I would guess 30%, 1%, 0.001%

[rubl]

Farmers have subsidised other sectors of the Thai economy and Thai society for the best part of the last 60 years. As the Thai economy continues its process of restructuring from feudal to subsistence to a developing economy it's perfectly reasonable for the farming sector to be subsidised - just as it is in the EU and the USA, and many other parts of the world.

Now before I start to rely on theNation provided figures, may be you can be kind enough to provide the figures which clearly show how Thai farmers have subsidised other sectors of the Thai economy and society for the best part of the last 60 years?

Furthermore please qualify and especially quantify why subsidising the farming sector is perfectly reasonable. The Rice Price Pledging Scheme targetting only the Rice sector seems to have left the BAAC with a 700 to 1,000 billion deficit guaranteed by the Yingluck Administration. Since 2011-10-07 when it started! Now that really needs some justification in terms of value to Thailand in general and it's economy and society specifically.

Edited June 21, 2014 by rubl

[outre99]

Rice farming can't be an easy way to make a living BUT it seems to me that one of the unexpected effects that the failed pledging scheme has had is to put farmers into a ' dependency ' frame of mind where they now expect to be looked after without question.

Very timely post and I agree. It is easy for a populous to become dependent on government hand outs. Case in point. The Food Stamp Program, administered by the U. S. Department of Agriculture, is proud to be distributing this year the greatest amount of free Meals and Food Stamps ever, to 47.5 million people. Some of the recipients are fourth generation recipients.

Meanwhile, the National Park Service, administered by the U. S. Department of the Interior, asks us "Please do not feed the wildlife." Their stated reason for the policy is because “The animals will grow dependent on handouts and will not learn to take care of themselves.”

Social democracy and the entitlement mentality have destroyed freedom and social fabric and empowered thieves and rapists of a nation.

.

Wow, a good'ol American conservative spouting out Fox, Beck, and Limbaugh actually made his way to LOS. Never thought i'd see that since the salt-of-the-earth folk like that tend to stay put and not venture out of the state of their birth for the benefit of the rest of the world i might add.

But i digress. I'm sure you're a rugged individual who got himself up by your own bootstraps and can live off the land and don't need no stinking government to do anything for you. Good on you mate. But for the millions of people who have been driven into poverty by the corporatocracy that have hijaked the America Republic over the last half a century enabled by the politicians corrupted by the unlimited campaign contributions and unwavering votes of the low information American voter (mostly your fellow Fox watchers), the American dream has turned into nightmare. The wealth gap in the US is the largest than in any other industrialized nation. The education spending is way down, while education costs are up thus drastically limiting the options of all but the very wealthy children. The health care costs are through the roof as well as the health spending, but the results are abysmal putting US at the bottom among other idunstrialized nations. The idiotic war on drugs, war on immigrants, and just plain'ol war fabricated and forced on the American people by the said corrupt (mostly Republican) politicians pandering to their low information religious base have drained the treasury, ballooned the national debt, and forced even more people from middle class into poverty. While the top elites made billions playing the games that they wrote the rules for almost bringing down the world's financial system in the process.

So back to the food stamps. As a civilized society and directly in response to the great depressions of 1930's we decided that it is in our collective interest not to have hungry families begging in the streets en-mass. It might reduce property values and all that. Hence the social safety net programs like the food stamps. No program of that scale can be 100% efficient. And yes there always will be people trying to get something for nothing. Just look over the gaggle of bar girls sitting next to you. But food stamps do not destroy freedom. Do you know what does destroy freedom? Lack of affordable education and health care, out of control police state, pervasive unconstitutional surverliance, corrupt political system: exactly the platform of the Republican party supported by the conservatives like you. So do the world a favour, stop writing about things you know nothing about a go catch your dinner.

[prakhonchai nick]

Actually the junta just paid the debts that YL had been trying to pay for months, but had been blocked by the "democrats".

I wonder how many posters on this thread live in Thailand, or pay tax here or have any personal experience of rice farming in Thailand. I would guess 30%, 1%, 0.001%

RUBBISH.

I support no side but what you say is incorrect. Nothing to do with the democrats or anyone else blocking payment.

Yingluk was in such a hurry to dissolve the government that she forgot that loans were needed to pay the farmers. It was illegal for a caretaker government to take on loans that might burden the next government!

[ajarnsiam]

Simple

Question 1. Read any economic history of Thailand (written in English or translated into English I'm guessing) that considers the post-WW2 period. There aren't many so it should be easy for you to find one. But please try to read a book on the topic rather than a 2-minute column in a rightwing rag.

Question 2. Harder to answer if you have no education in economics. Ask yourself why Prayuth is praised for following YL`s policy of growing the Thai GDP. Answer: simple Keynsian economics. Applied most successfully in my continent and yours for many years.

[billsmart]

Why continue in an occupation or business that is not viable ?? All the VCR repairmen around the world had to find a new career when DVD came out. Nobody is holding a gun to these peoples heads telling them to continue farming rice.

The country can survive without VCR repairmen but it can't survive without rice farmers.

[billsmart]

"They reason rice payment as the outstanding performance because farmers have been exploited and unjustly treated for a lon time. Payment will enable them to continue planting for the new crop season."

Yet as per another news article in another thread. These same farmers are crying poor and have their hands out begging the regime to give them a supplement so they can plant a new crop. Unbelievable.

Not unbelievable when you take into account the loans and interest these farmers had to get just to eat and have electric for many months while the YL gov twiddled their thumbs blaming everyone else for the inability to pay.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

YL was not twiddling her thumbs. She was trying to hang on to her democratically-elected government and then trying to stage new elections to reaffirm her mandate. The non-payment was directly the fault of Suthep and the Election Committee.

[rubl]

Simple

Question 1. Read any economic history of Thailand (written in English or translated into English I'm guessing) that considers the post-WW2 period. There aren't many so it should be easy for you to find one. But please try to read a book on the topic rather than a 2-minute column in a rightwing rag.

Question 2. Harder to answer if you have no education in economics. Ask yourself why Prayuth is praised for following YL`s policy of growing the Thai GDP. Answer: simple Keynsian economics. Applied most successfully in my continent and yours for many years.

Well, please let me thank you for these non-answers. Now all is clear.

Now I don't have to feel guilty paying attention again to the "don't stop me now" program on channel7 at the moment.

[billsmart]

Let's not forget these payments were result of Yingluck's program. The junta just delivered them.

The junta didnt just pay them. They made people get off their butts and money to do it. You call it YLs program. But all she did was make unkept promises to the farmers. Only the PTP would call it their program. Everyone else is calling it their FAILED progam

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The junta made people get off their butts and got the money because they have guns and don't have to seek anyone else's approval.

This poll shows the program was a success, even though the payments were delayed due the political pressure of a minority lead by Suthep and YL's underestimation of the suffering Suthep was willing to lay on the Thai people in order to get his way.

[rubl]

"They reason rice payment as the outstanding performance because farmers have been exploited and unjustly treated for a lon time. Payment will enable them to continue planting for the new crop season."

Yet as per another news article in another thread. These same farmers are crying poor and have their hands out begging the regime to give them a supplement so they can plant a new crop. Unbelievable.

Not unbelievable when you take into account the loans and interest these farmers had to get just to eat and have electric for many months while the YL gov twiddled their thumbs blaming everyone else for the inability to pay.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

YL was not twiddling her thumbs. She was trying to hang on to her democratically-elected government and then trying to stage new elections to reaffirm her mandate. The non-payment was directly the fault of Suthep and the Election Committee.

Not so smart, Bill.

Mid-2013 the Yingluck Administration said to need 270 billion Baht for the 2013/2014 RPPS period and to have the funding. Slowly rumours about non-payment started to emerge and in December 2013 the, by now caretaker, government suddenly wanted to borrow 130 billion. With the RPPS now nearly ended close to 200 billion has been paid out since December 2013.

Edited June 21, 2014 by rubl

[thesetat2013]

"They reason rice payment as the outstanding performance because farmers have been exploited and unjustly treated for a lon time. Payment will enable them to continue planting for the new crop season."

Yet as per another news article in another thread. These same farmers are crying poor and have their hands out begging the regime to give them a supplement so they can plant a new crop. Unbelievable.

Not unbelievable when you take into account the loans and interest these farmers had to get just to eat and have electric for many months while the YL gov twiddled their thumbs blaming everyone else for the inability to pay.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

YL was not twiddling her thumbs. She was trying to hang on to her democratically-elected government and then trying to stage new elections to reaffirm her mandate. The non-payment was directly the fault of Suthep and the Election Committee.

Ohh so it was Sutheps fault they didnt pay the farmers last october before the protests? It was Sutheps fault they resigned thinking a fast election would reaffirm their power? It was Sutheps fault they found billions of baht missing from that scheme? So it must have been Sutheps fault they illegally tried to get the money they lost to pay the farmers by putting the next gov into even more debt with loans from banks? Wow! The way you think would make everyone believe Suthep created, planned, mismanaged, lost money, and tried to fix it by getting money illegally? Why isnt Suthep trying to delay NACC hearing now for this instead of YL?

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[rubl]

Let's not forget these payments were result of Yingluck's program. The junta just delivered them.

The junta didnt just pay them. They made people get off their butts and money to do it. You call it YLs program. But all she did was make unkept promises to the farmers. Only the PTP would call it their program. Everyone else is calling it their FAILED progam

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The junta made people get off their butts and got the money because they have guns and don't have to seek anyone else's approval.

This poll shows the program was a success, even though the payments were delayed due the political pressure of a minority lead by Suthep and YL's underestimation of the suffering Suthep was willing to lay on the Thai people in order to get his way.

The polls shows the appreciation for the NCPO's efforts on getting the long time delayed payments to the farmers. That has nothing to do with a program being a success or not.

The delay of payments started many months before PM Yingluck dissolved the House. Furthermore the Yingluck Administration had said mid-2013 to need 270 billion for 2013/2014 RPPS and have the funding. Since the caretaker Yingluck administration tried to borrow 130 billion in December 2013 a total of close to 200 billion has been paid out. Partlially financed from rice sales, partially borrowed. All to be paid back to the BAAC which has paid out close to 1,000,000,000,000 and may have received slightly more than 200 billion to cover those costs. How much more can be made from rice stocks is unclear, but what seems clear is that this 'revolving' funds at BAAC will never revolve again. A debt guaranteed by the Yingluck government.

[ajarnsiam]

So many strange assertions here, I really would be interested to know

- who actually has been in Thailand at least for the last 6 months

- who pays tax here

- who has any personal knowledge of rice farming in Thailand

I still think it's probably around 30%, 1%, 0.001%.

[thesetat2013]

Let's not forget these payments were result of Yingluck's program. The junta just delivered them.

The junta didnt just pay them. They made people get off their butts and money to do it. You call it YLs program. But all she did was make unkept promises to the farmers. Only the PTP would call it their program. Everyone else is calling it their FAILED progam

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The junta made people get off their butts and got the money because they have guns and don't have to seek anyone else's approval.

This poll shows the program was a success, even though the payments were delayed due the political pressure of a minority lead by Suthep and YL's underestimation of the suffering Suthep was willing to lay on the Thai people in order to get his way.

The payments were delayed long before Suthep showed up on the scene. Also you should smarten up a bit more bill. This poll showed people were happy the junta took paying these farmers seriously and quickly. Not that it was a success.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[pmugghc]

Actually the junta just paid the debts that YL had been trying to pay for months, but had been blocked by the "democrats".

I wonder how many posters on this thread live in Thailand, or pay tax here or have any personal experience of rice farming in Thailand. I would guess 30%, 1%, 0.001%

You may be right on the 30% and 0.001%. But the middle number is just wrong! 100% of the westerners living in Thailand pay tax, maybe not an income tax but surely the 7% VAT tax on most things they buy.

[pmugghc]

"They reason rice payment as the outstanding performance because farmers have been exploited and unjustly treated for a lon time. Payment will enable them to continue planting for the new crop season."

Yet as per another news article in another thread. These same farmers are crying poor and have their hands out begging the regime to give them a supplement so they can plant a new crop. Unbelievable.

Not unbelievable when you take into account the loans and interest these farmers had to get just to eat and have electric for many months while the YL gov twiddled their thumbs blaming everyone else for the inability to pay.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

YL was not twiddling her thumbs. She was trying to hang on to her democratically-elected government and then trying to stage new elections to reaffirm her mandate. The non-payment was directly the fault of Suthep and the Election Committee.

You're not Smart. Don't rewrite history. The payments stopped before Suthep's protests started.

[ajarnsiam]

Pmug.

Yes you're right the westerners pay vat, as everyone does perforce in any country.

But most of them are too poor or evasive to pay any other tax, unlike farmers for example.

[aripengu]

My cat is happy with his food and I am happy with the cat's food, 100% of subjects interviewed about the cat food were happy with it.

[ggold]

It seems that most of the posters here get get their economic and political wisdom straight and unadulterated from The Nation; kind of makes it hard to discuss anything with any intelligence.

You're looking in the wrong place for intelligent debate. And lets face it, there is little difference between The Nation or the Bangkok Post. Thai Ploilitics should be viewed as a spectator sport. It really makes no difference of peoples views on here. Even if they could vote their influence would be minimal to no existant. Still it's fun to see some of them make fools of themselves with some of the comments made.

[ggold]

Let's not forget these payments were result of Yingluck's program. The junta just delivered them.

The junta didnt just pay them. They made people get off their butts and money to do it. You call it YLs program. But all she did was make unkept promises to the farmers. Only the PTP would call it their program. Everyone else is calling it their FAILED progam

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The junta made people get off their butts and got the money because they have guns and don't have to seek anyone else's approval.

This poll shows the program was a success, even though the payments were delayed due the political pressure of a minority lead by Suthep and YL's underestimation of the suffering Suthep was willing to lay on the Thai people in order to get his way.

Trying to rewrite history are we, how was it a successful program The lose hasn't been realised yet, but they have now been created. As long as PTP did not pay the farmers, they could claim there is no lose, so they took their time in not paying the farmers. Soon we will know how much it cost the nation!

[coma]

"They reason rice payment as the outstanding performance because farmers have been exploited and unjustly treated for a lon time. Payment will enable them to continue planting for the new crop season."

Yet as per another news article in another thread. These same farmers are crying poor and have their hands out begging the regime to give them a supplement so they can plant a new crop. Unbelievable.

Not unbelievable when you take into account the loans and interest these farmers had to get just to eat and have electric for many months while the YL gov twiddled their thumbs blaming everyone else for the inability to pay.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

YL was not twiddling her thumbs. She was trying to hang on to her democratically-elected government and then trying to stage new elections to reaffirm her mandate. The non-payment was directly the fault of Suthep and the Election Committee.

Not so smart, Bill.

Mid-2013 the Yingluck Administration said to need 270 billion Baht for the 2013/2014 RPPS period and to have the funding. Slowly rumours about non-payment started to emerge and in December 2013 the, by now caretaker, government suddenly wanted to borrow 130 billion. With the RPPS now nearly ended close to 200 billion has been paid out since December 2013.

Thanks for saving me the effort Rubl.

[coma]

"They reason rice payment as the outstanding performance because farmers have been exploited and unjustly treated for a lon time. Payment will enable them to continue planting for the new crop season."

Yet as per another news article in another thread. These same farmers are crying poor and have their hands out begging the regime to give them a supplement so they can plant a new crop. Unbelievable.

Not unbelievable when you take into account the loans and interest these farmers had to get just to eat and have electric for many months while the YL gov twiddled their thumbs blaming everyone else for the inability to pay.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

YL was not twiddling her thumbs. She was trying to hang on to her democratically-elected government and then trying to stage new elections to reaffirm her mandate. The non-payment was directly the fault of Suthep and the Election Committee.

You're not Smart. Don't rewrite history. The payments stopped before Suthep's protests started.

The first of your 3 sentence was enough Pmugghc.

[ajarnsiam]

Gg I kind of agree with u, BP is right of centre, and TN is just left of Attila the Hun. My concerns are that...

- there is no centre-politics English language news outlet in this country

- the "no need to pay" news here is extremely right of centre

- there is a conscious or unconscious policy here to support the "no need to pay' news editorial position

- there is no left-of-centre news in English to counterbalance the right of centre news.

Edited June 21, 2014 by ajarnsiam

[djjamie]

"They reason rice payment as the outstanding performance because farmers have been exploited and unjustly treated for a lon time. Payment will enable them to continue planting for the new crop season."

Yet as per another news article in another thread. These same farmers are crying poor and have their hands out begging the regime to give them a supplement so they can plant a new crop. Unbelievable.

Not unbelievable when you take into account the loans and interest these farmers had to get just to eat and have electric for many months while the YL gov twiddled their thumbs blaming everyone else for the inability to pay.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

YL was not twiddling her thumbs. She was trying to hang on to her democratically-elected government and then trying to stage new elections to reaffirm her mandate. The non-payment was directly the fault of Suthep and the Election Committee.

Directly the fault of Suthep and the EC?

13th of September 2013 - The cabinet approved a total budget of 270 billion baht for the government’s rice pledging scheme, Deputy Commerce Minister Yanyong Puangraj. They said they had the money. They lied. Do you understand and acknowledge the PTP lied to Thailand when they said they could fund the rice scheme until February 2014? Do you understand the rice farmers believed the PTP when they said this? Or do you ignore that?

16th of September - THE FINANCE MINISTRY’s sub-committee assessing the cost of the rice pledging scheme fears the scheme will break budget. The PTP were warned. Do you understand and acknowledge the PTP where warned that the scheme was bound to fail and they would not have the money to pay the farmers? Do you see that or ignore it?

8th of October - The World Bank said that the rice pledging scheme had proven to be the most costly and would ring up a bill of 115 billion to 150 billion baht per harvest. The reply - Deputy Prime Minister and Commerce Minister Niwatthamrong Bunsongphaisan today categorically dismissed the World Bank’s estimate that the Thai government will incur up to 400 billion baht in losses from the rice pledging scheme for two harvests. He went on to say the Finance Ministry should help secure more funding to meet the 270 billion baht target already approved by the cabinet to be used for the 2013-14 harvests. They said they had the money. They lied. Do you understand and acknowledge the PTP lied to Thailand again. Do you understand the farmers believed the PTP when they said this? Or do you ignore that?

12th November 2013 - IMF called on Thailand to ditch rice support scheme. The PTP said no. The PTP were warned. Do you understand the farmers believed the PTP when they said this? Or is that to be ignored as well?

9th of December 2013 - PTP house dissolved knowing full well they had no money to pay the farmers yet they lead the people in thinking they did. They knew that when the EC and and the banks would not grant loans they could blame them. They would be absolved. The PTP are experts at blaming others to divert the real blame from them and with your comment you fell hook line and sinker into the trap.

You can see fault with the EC for following the rule of law and the banks because they do not want to solicit loans because of legality concerns and they don't want to undermine the confidence of their investors yet you cannot see fault with the PTP after they were warned 3 times in the 3 months leading up to dissolution that they would run out of money. They told the public numerous times they did have the money for the season up to February, 2014 which was a lie. And the cherry on the cake is the Deputy PM denouncing the World Bank, demanding to know where they got the figures from while saying they were wrong and the PTP were right. Guess what…..The PTP were wrong!

When ever my 3 year old son does something wrong he blames his 6 year old sister for it. It is really him that did something wrong though.

Now if my 3 year old son was the PTP and his 6 year old sister was the DEM's you would say my son is an angel and my daughter is a devil.

Do you think the PTP should have listened to the independent organizations?

Do you think the PTP should have been honest and transparent with the public and told them they have no money and they need to get a loan before house dissolution?

Do you think a responsible government knowing they have no money would dissolve parliament without ensuring they had liquidity to fund the rice scheme instead of taking a gamble and relying on others?

Do you think an accountable transparent government would blame everyone else for it's own shortfalls?

Edited June 21, 2014 by djjamie

[ajarnsiam]

Of course there is a "loss" with the rice pledge, dont u get it....

It's a subsidy by another name, just as we have in the EU or USA!

[rubl]

Of course there is a "loss" with the rice pledge, dont u get it....

It's a subsidy by another name, just as we have in the EU or USA!

Subsidy?

You may have missed that the Yingluck Administration had BAAC set up a 'revolving' funds of 500 billion with the idea of doing payment out of it and put back revenue from rice sales into it.

Of course, the 'we in Europe/USA' suggests you're not Thai, and therefore I can understand that this gem in Pheu Thai actions thought out by their thinker abroad is beyond your understanding.

[ajarnsiam]

Rubi, I didn't say it was a subsidy, I said "it's a subsidy by another name", which is an extremely accurate description.

It's a small subsidy compared to US or EU subsidies. Mr Prayuth has received praise for honouring it. The honouring of it has raised the Thai GDP above the unacceptably low levels incurred by 6 months of insurrection.

I

[NeverSure]

Rice farming can't be an easy way to make a living BUT it seems to me that one of the unexpected effects that the failed pledging scheme has had is to put farmers into a ' dependency ' frame of mind where they now expect to be looked after without question.

Very timely post and I agree. It is easy for a populous to become dependent on government hand outs. Case in point. The Food Stamp Program, administered by the U. S. Department of Agriculture, is proud to be distributing this year the greatest amount of free Meals and Food Stamps ever, to 47.5 million people. Some of the recipients are fourth generation recipients.

Meanwhile, the National Park Service, administered by the U. S. Department of the Interior, asks us "Please do not feed the wildlife." Their stated reason for the policy is because “The animals will grow dependent on handouts and will not learn to take care of themselves.”

Social democracy and the entitlement mentality have destroyed freedom and social fabric and empowered thieves and rapists of a nation.

.

Agree 100%. Is there a place to slip in the comment that the politicians have grown dependent on the votes of the dependent?

[ajarnsiam]

U guys have totally missed the point, the Thai economy has been subsidised by the the farming sector for the last 60 years.

Ie the farmers have been handing out to everyone. Including u expats who want "free" retirement healthcate.

Edited June 21, 2014 by ajarnsiam