Reforms must be 'holistic and comprehensive'

[Lite Beer]

Reforms must be 'holistic and comprehensive'
Khanittha Thepphajorn
The Sunday Nation June 29, 2014 1:00 am

Thirayuth

BANGKOK: -- The main problem of the Thai justice system is that relevant agencies do not collaborate well and this leads to higher costs and poor effectiveness, Kanit na Nakorn, chairman of the Law Reform Commission of Thailand and a former attorney general has said.

Meanwhile, Thirayuth Boonmee, a political critic, lecturer and a leader during the student uprising in 1976, said Thailand's reforms in the past had failed because they were conducted separately - not holistically and comprehensively tackled.

They were speaking at a seminar marking Thammasat University's 80th anniversary on Friday.

The university's name means the 'University of moral science' and it was originally called the University of Moral Science and Politics.

Thirayuth said the civic sector should take part in the checks-and-balances process. "The civic sector's role must be strong. People must have the power, rights and freedom and use them responsibly in tackling problems of the country," he said, adding that focusing only on the strength of the government sector would not be the answer.

"Thailand will never develop in the same way as the West or Japan, which has strong discipline. We have to think about hybrid development - how we can live happily together.

"We have to accept that motorcycle taxis are useful and food stalls play an important role in the Thai economic system, for example.

"I think the National Council for Peace and Order is heading in the right direction, but it's too soon to conclude that."

He said he would comment more on the NCPO's work in the next few months.

Kanit said many cases tackled by the National Anti-Corruption Commission expired because they exceeded the statute of limitations and nobody was held responsible for that.

The problem stemmed from attorneys not being trusted, he said.

"Thai laws are good but the problem is the practice [of the law]," he said.

"Some people might have said we treat people with many standards. I personally think we have no standard, to be exact. Officers must do the cases objectively and with unity.

"We have justice organisations but they don't cooperate. That allows the wrongdoers to avoid punishment."

Kanit said educational institutions must take the issue seriously.

"The Thai justice system can make the country peaceful. But the unrest in the past was because the justice system still lacked fairness," he said.

Kanit raised Japan as an example of using the justice system as the base of all aspects in national development.

Former Constitutional Court president Wasan Soypisudh also said Thailand had failed to build a strong and effective justice system and as such had failed to protect people's rights.

Wasan said the justice process moved too slowly and the limited knowledge and experience of some judges contributed to the problems.

"The [nullified] February 2 election failed. We have to accept that people obstructed it," he said.

"Whose fault was that? Some said the Election Commission. In my opinion, the EC is not in charge of peace and order. It cannot order the military, police officers or governors.

"The authorities - government officers - should have done their job. They didn't, so that led to defiance. That's why I see the justice system as failing to keep peace and order, except when legal cases are filed."

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Reforms-must-be-holistic-and-comprehensive-30237340.html

-- The Nation 2014-06-29

[phuketsub]

"Thailand will never develop in the same way as the West or Japan, which has strong discipline. We have to think about hybrid development - how we can live happily together."

If 10% of the man-hours spent in standing on ceremony and protesting could be shifted into productive pursuits like environmental protection, exposing corruption and shaming uncivilized behavior it would go a long way to creating the civil society we all want and need.

[Aussieroaming]

How condemning to assume that Thailand will never have sufficient discipline to develop like Japan or the west. Why invoke laws and by laws if you then choose to ignore the management of them? Chaos and confusion is the end result if there is no discipline.

[xminator]

No the problem with thai justice system is that one eye is peeking from the blindfold to see who is judged. And so many checks and balances that the courts become lawmakers, not just ruling on laws made by lawmakers.

[FangFerang]

The lecturer said "I think the National Council for Peace and Order is heading in the right direction, but it's too soon to conclude that."

I agree one hundred percent.

The honeymoon is almost over.

[fab4]

Former Constitutional Court president Wasan Soypisudh also said Thailand had failed to build a strong and effective justice system and as such had failed to protect people's rights.

Wasan said the justice process moved too slowly and the limited knowledge and experience of some judges contributed to the problems.

"The [nullified] February 2 election failed. We have to accept that people obstructed it," he said.

"Whose fault was that? Some said the Election Commission. In my opinion, the EC is not in charge of peace and order. It cannot order the military, police officers or governors.

"The authorities - government officers - should have done their job. They didn't, so that led to defiance. That's why I see the justice system as failing to keep peace and order, except when legal cases are filed."

And there we have it in a nutshell. This guy was President of the Constitutional Court until August 1st 2013 and was directly culpable for some of the most controversial Constitutional Court decisions in recent times starting with the ruling on constitutional amendments, http://www.loc.gov/lawweb/servlet/lloc_news?disp3_l205403270_text followed by further erratic rulings.

He admits that the "limited knowledge and experience of some judges contributed to the problems" but said nothing at the time.

Wasan then admits that the February election failed and the reason was that people obstructed it, yet his peers in the Constitutional Court were responsible for nullifying the election without taking that into consideration.

He is also unaware of the duties and responsibilities of the EC wrt the organisation of the Election saying that they cannot order the military or police or governors. Well yes they can, and if they had have done, Thailand wouldn't be in the situation it is now.

More than 93,000 polling stations will be set up around the country on Sunday. The commission, which wanted to postpone the vote because of the volatility, said it had authority to order troops and police to help ensure the election takes place.

"Soldiers are ready to help with the elections," army chief Prayuth Chan-ocha said.

"The Election Commission is working out which are the potential flashpoints. Troops are ready to support but won't go near polling stations. Election venue security is the responsibility of the police."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-31/an-thai-anti-government-protesters-to-hold-big-picnic-at-weekend/5232096

All of which confirms that a judicial review is long overdue, with particular regard paid to the need for a non partisan, experienced judiciary. I'll believe that when I see it.

Edited June 29, 2014 by fab4

[mikemac]

....................."Well yes they can, and if they had have done, Thailand wouldn't be in the situation it is now."........................

If they had of locked Thaksin up years ago and denied him access to Skype Thailand wouldn't be in the situation it is now.

[klauskunkel]

The main problem of the Thai justice system is that relevant agencies do not collaborate well and this leads to higher costs and poor effectiveness, Kanit na Nakorn, chairman of the Law Reform Commission of Thailand and a former attorney general has said.

So the main problem is basically a interdepartmental communication problem? Really? Nothing wrong systematically? No outdated, archaic laws? Everything ok with the public perception of Thai justice system?

Well, that should be easy to fix then, just tell them to cooperate, or else...

[rubl]

"Reforms must be 'holistic and comprehensive'"

Uh?

How about 'pragmatic and understandable even by those without a university degree ?

[kuiburi]

"Thailand will never be like the west or japan , wich has strong dicipline ."

Well , I sure hope that it will not be like the west or Japan . I like the lack of dicipline and freedom ,we and Thai people can enjoy because of that .

I think the reforms should root out the "caste" like system like India has .

That we all can live without the fear of the abuse of power , extortion , fysical harm and corruption of the powerfull people , the rich , the police , the HiSo .

Let Thailand be " The Land of Smiles" again , for everybody .

[cocopops]

"The [nullified] February 2 election failed. We have to accept that people obstructed it," he said.

"Whose fault was that? Some said the Election Commission. In my opinion, the EC is not in charge of peace and order. It cannot order the military, police officers or governors.

"The authorities - government officers - should have done their job. They didn't, so that led to defiance. That's why I see the justice system as failing to keep peace and order, except when legal cases are filed."

I don't see what he means. Mr. Abhisit had boycotted the election and Mr. Suthep ordered his followers to physically (but on the whole, not violently) obstruct the polling process. The army were taking the line that this was a political matter, and that they were loyal only to the country as a whole. The constitutional court was all but openly hostile and even the electoral commission seemed conspicuously unenthusiastic towards anything regarding an election. Members of both these august institutions whiled away the hours offering quotes to the media regarding exactly who might be in a position to appoint a new PM.

So, presumably, the job that the "government officers" should have done was to order the police to be heavy-handed with those obstructing the election. Go out and knock some heads together fellas!

The same police Mr. Suthep spent December telling his followers were their enemies? Seriously? Does anyone even want to imagine how that might have ended? Unpredictably, to say the least.

So the "government officers" had a choice. Violence or non-violence. With pretty good odds that neither path would lead to a resolution of the political crisis anyway. They chose non-violence. That's not "the problem", Khun Khanittha , that's an example that more authoritarian governments here and around the world should look to follow.

No matter what you thought of the populist policies, and no matter how aghast you are at Thawil's transfer and other injustices, or even if you really do remain convinced that it was all a big plan to turn Thaksin into president-for-life, it amazes me that people are critical of the non-violent way that the caretaker government handled the crisis itself.

Edited June 29, 2014 by cocopops

[Emster23]

""Some people might have said we treat people with many standards. I personally think we have no standard, to be exact." Amen

[BestBitterPhuket]

"Thailand will never be like the west or japan , wich has strong dicipline ."

Well , I sure hope that it will not be like the west or Japan . I like the lack of dicipline and freedom ,we and Thai people can enjoy because of that .

I think the reforms should root out the "caste" like system like India has .

That we all can live without the fear of the abuse of power , extortion , fysical harm and corruption of the powerfull people , the rich , the police , the HiSo .

Let Thailand be " The Land of Smiles" again , for everybody .

Are you sure the "Thai people" like the lack of discipline? From my experience that's a total bullsh... statement. Thais don't want to live in a undeveloped country were poverty and abuse of power are rampant. They also want to live in a modern and developed country. Now they are just adapting their lives to the failed system that invokes chaos. Perhaps the current Thailand with where you can buy hookers on every street corner, live like an emperor for a meager western salary and pay off the police every time you are wrong, is your idea of a good Thailand, but it is not the Thailand the Thais I know want. They want law, order and dignity restored, and the improved living standard that comes along.

[rickirs]

"People must have the power, rights and freedom" must be protected by a constitution that is inviolate and protected by a democratic process. When a constitution is written on a magic drawing slate that can be wiped out at any moment by agencies that operate outside the democratic process, there will never be certainty for the People's security and expectations to free and fair judicial processes. Reforms must be REAL and LASTING.

[ggt]

Thailand may get it right this time...they are going through democratic "growing-pains"...the rule of law...enacted without malice...is the foundation of a strong nation...

[ggold]

Thailand wouldn't be in the situation it is now.

This is the only comment of yours that I question.

If the army hadn't intervened, where do you think Thailand's situation would be right now? I would really like to know what you think of that?

[northernjohn]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

"Reforms must be 'holistic and comprehensive'"

Uh?

How about 'pragmatic and understandable even by those without a university degree ?

there you go again making sense.

"Thailand will never be like the west or japan , wich has strong dicipline ."

Well , I sure hope that it will not be like the west or Japan . I like the lack of dicipline and freedom ,we and Thai people can enjoy because of that .

I think the reforms should root out the "caste" like system like India has .

That we all can live without the fear of the abuse of power , extortion , fysical harm and corruption of the powerfull people , the rich , the police , the HiSo .

Let Thailand be " The Land of Smiles" again , for everybody .

Well I said I like it but there are limits to the amount of law breaking that I just smile at if in fact don't do myself. They will of course vary from person to person but some of them are never right and should be punished. I was thinking of the laws like seat belts and what not. Even though I do agree with them. I will smile when I see some one get away with it or pay the 200 baht. Unless it has gone up.

I for sure never never want to see Thailand turned into a nanny state.

[northernjohn]

Thirayuth said the civic sector should take part in the checks-and-balances process.

Like the red shirts and the Suthep group who was protesting against corruption?

[northernjohn]

"The [nullified] February 2 election failed. We have to accept that people obstructed it," he said.

"Whose fault was that? Some said the Election Commission. In my opinion, the EC is not in charge of peace and order. It cannot order the military, police officers or governors.

"The authorities - government officers - should have done their job. They didn't, so that led to defiance. That's why I see the justice system as failing to keep peace and order, except when legal cases are filed."

I don't see what he means. Mr. Abhisit had boycotted the election and Mr. Suthep ordered his followers to physically (but on the whole, not violently) obstruct the polling process. The army were taking the line that this was a political matter, and that they were loyal only to the country as a whole. The constitutional court was all but openly hostile and even the electoral commission seemed conspicuously unenthusiastic towards anything regarding an election. Members of both these august institutions whiled away the hours offering quotes to the media regarding exactly who might be in a position to appoint a new PM.

So, presumably, the job that the "government officers" should have done was to order the police to be heavy-handed with those obstructing the election. Go out and knock some heads together fellas!

The same police Mr. Suthep spent December telling his followers were their enemies? Seriously? Does anyone even want to imagine how that might have ended? Unpredictably, to say the least.

So the "government officers" had a choice. Violence or non-violence. With pretty good odds that neither path would lead to a resolution of the political crisis anyway. They chose non-violence. That's not "the problem", Khun Khanittha , that's an example that more authoritarian governments here and around the world should look to follow.

No matter what you thought of the populist policies, and no matter how aghast you are at Thawil's transfer and other injustices, or even if you really do remain convinced that it was all a big plan to turn Thaksin into president-for-life, it amazes me that people are critical of the non-violent way that the caretaker government handled the crisis itself.

You are playing with machines. This is a real world with real people in it. The government brought on the crises with their own actions. Their flat out refusal to listen to the grass roots people and to listen to only one man "Thaksin" also the red shirts.

Their continual refusal to do some thing about their red shirt militant part of their party. You wanted all that to go on plus start the police into heavy handed action. They took the only hope they had and tried to hold the police back just like they did in prosecuting the red shirt bombers had they listened to you it would have been a civil war and the army would not be so kind to the PTP as they have doing it this way.

They were given an easy way out stop trying to white wash Thaksin and do some thing about the corruption. Two very reasonable actions. They continued to try to white wash Thaksin and cut the money that was going to the commission responsible for investigating corruption. All the time increasing corruption in Thailand by2%.

And you wanted them to be heavy handed to the people who objected to them doing that. If they had restrained their red shirt militia the army probably would not have called the coup. But they couldn't even do that. They showed the IQ of a low wattage light bulb. Or if you prefer an ego so large that a human skull couldn't hold it all.

I say give them a chance to redeem themselves send them all down to the southern provinces and let them work that out. Even let Thaksin in to the southern three provinces to help them.

[Chris Lawrence]

Does he mean that one cannot buy a verdict anymore? Court cases are to run before they are out of time? The international legal community has been saying the same thing?

[kuiburi]

"Thailand will never be like the west or japan , wich has strong dicipline ."

Well , I sure hope that it will not be like the west or Japan . I like the lack of dicipline and freedom ,we and Thai people can enjoy because of that .

I think the reforms should root out the "caste" like system like India has .

That we all can live without the fear of the abuse of power , extortion , fysical harm and corruption of the powerfull people , the rich , the police , the HiSo .

Let Thailand be " The Land of Smiles" again , for everybody .

Are you sure the "Thai people" like the lack of discipline? From my experience that's a total bullsh... statement. Thais don't want to live in a undeveloped country were poverty and abuse of power are rampant. They also want to live in a modern and developed country. Now they are just adapting their lives to the failed system that invokes chaos. Perhaps the current Thailand with where you can buy hookers on every street corner, live like an emperor for a meager western salary and pay off the police every time you are wrong, is your idea of a good Thailand, but it is not the Thailand the Thais I know want. They want law, order and dignity restored, and the improved living standard that comes along.

Maybe u should read my post again .

[mikemac]

"Thailand will never be like the west or japan , wich has strong dicipline ."

Well , I sure hope that it will not be like the west or Japan . I like the lack of dicipline and freedom ,we and Thai people can enjoy because of that .

I think the reforms should root out the "caste" like system like India has .

That we all can live without the fear of the abuse of power , extortion , fysical harm and corruption of the powerfull people , the rich , the police , the HiSo .

Let Thailand be " The Land of Smiles" again , for everybody .

Are you sure the "Thai people" like the lack of discipline? From my experience that's a total bullsh... statement. Thais don't want to live in a undeveloped country were poverty and abuse of power are rampant. They also want to live in a modern and developed country. Now they are just adapting their lives to the failed system that invokes chaos. Perhaps the current Thailand with where you can buy hookers on every street corner, live like an emperor for a meager western salary and pay off the police every time you are wrong, is your idea of a good Thailand, but it is not the Thailand the Thais I know want. They want law, order and dignity restored, and the improved living standard that comes along.

Maybe u should read my post again .

I see what you are getting at kuiburi, although not too sure BBP does.

Most of the Thai people I have known in the 8+ years I have lived in and visited Thailand don't like things too strict and "regimented", they like to be flexible and to be able to bend the rules some. Most of them have little respect for the law and see policemen as blood-sucking leeches and lawyers as overpaid crooks. I don't think they care too much about "order" either, chaos does them fine. Have a look at any busy street or marketplace.

I have, and still do know "hookers" who have more dignity than the entire previous government put together.

To me they are a very casual and easygoing race of people and I love and admire them for having those qualities.

Edited June 30, 2014 by mikemac

[muchogra]

Almost all the ills in Thailand can be attributed to an ineffective police force which lacks integrity, moral and ethics, and impartiality. The police force fears only the politicians and influential figures but never the ordinary citizens/residents because the lack of a higher entity with high moral standards where citizens/residents can report mischievous conducts by the law enforcement officers.

I hope that the NCPO, during its tenure, may set up ONE permanent independent commission similar to the one in HK - Independent Commission Against Corruption - to deal with complaints on all corruption and non-corruption related matters involvng people in all strata of society whoever they may be.