I don't have a degree but I believe I can teach...

[kleelof]

Should an unqualified teacher be allowed to teach any more than an unqualified Doctor or car mechanic doing those jobs, I don't think so. Unfortunately you will have no problem finding work, hence the very poor standard of English in Thailand. Get a degree, teaching qualifications, experience and then come to Thailand to teach, if you love the place so much it should not be too difficult.

Most people who teach, and have degrees, have degrees in subjects TOTALLY unrelated to teaching. As well, they rarely ever have teaching experience before coming to Thailand. So how does having a degree necessarily qualify someone to teach?

I worked with teachers with Masters degrees in their fields, some of them were the worst teachers I've ever met. And, of course, I've met plenty of people without degrees who were great teachers.

I don't disagree with the requirement to have a degree. But I think the only thing it proves is that you are serious about something at least enough to go to school and get a degree. But it in no real way qualifies you to teach.

[Thaddeus]

Should an unqualified teacher be allowed to teach any more than an unqualified Doctor or car mechanic doing those jobs, I don't think so. Unfortunately you will have no problem finding work, hence the very poor standard of English in Thailand. Get a degree, teaching qualifications, experience and then come to Thailand to teach, if you love the place so much it should not be too difficult.

Most people who teach, and have degrees, have degrees in subjects TOTALLY unrelated to teaching. As well, they rarely ever have teaching experience before coming to Thailand. So how does having a degree necessarily qualify someone to teach?

I worked with teachers with Masters degrees in their fields, some of them were the worst teachers I've ever met. And, of course, I've met plenty of people without degrees who were great teachers.

I don't disagree with the requirement to have a degree. But I think the only thing it proves is that you are serious about something at least enough to go to school and get a degree. But it in no real way qualifies you to teach.

This.

There is only one certain fact about people who hold a Degree, they knew how and had the ability to obtain that Degree. It doesn't mean that they have the ability to teach that subject to others, let alone a completely different subject.

I do have a Degree in a completely different subject to English, does that make me better qualified to teach the English language than anyone else, I don't think so, or does the fact that I know how spell and pronounce 'boolean' correctly give me an advantage somehow.

[F4UCorsair]

Nobody can tell me with any conviction that a science degree (teaching degree maybe) and a ESL course equips one to teach English in Thailand, or anywhere.

I see many English teachers posting on this forum, whose grasp of the principles of the language, are tenuous at best and woeful at worst.

If you want to teach, you must know the fundamentals, spelling, grammar, etc., and many who post here have no idea.

Having said that, if the government sets qualifications and one meets those, then he/she can legally teach, but I believe many are taking a salary under false pretenses.

Edited July 4, 2014 by F4UCorsair

[twodreamers]

Thanks for the responses everyone, and for the encouraging PMs I have received.

I do agree about the 'fly-by-night' teachers - the ones that are here to booze and womanise don't do anyone any favours. However some that use it to travel are diligent and pragmatic and put in the work required - I met quite a few in my time in Thailand.

The minority of bad teachers that I met were actually my inspiration to eventually become a teacher. I believe I have the skills and know how not only in the English language, but with the ability to engage people and make them learn. I have been a salesman in a previous career and being creative and engaging with language is a must, as it is in the classroom. I believe I can be a good teacher, and I'm determined to prove it.

While I will start in Thailand (and may spend four years + there at this rate) I wanted to teach in other countries too. I have friends who are loving teaching in Vietnam, and it would be mutually beneficial for me and my future students for me to experience as many languages and cultures as possible.

It looks like my plan now will be to obtain a TEFL/TESOL/CELTA in Thailand, try and get work without a degree (by the looks of it there are ways - if not easy ones - to do this) I will then begin the TESOL BA as provided by Thongsook.

Edited July 4, 2014 by twodreamers

[Thaijack2014]

Whatever some people might say or think... don't just give it up, but try. Nothing is worse than regretting what you haven't done in your life. If it doesn't work out, at least you can try.

Maybe it's not easy in the beginning... but once you start small, it might grow. And as you say you want get that degree one day, what is there to stop you?

Good luck!

[wwest5829]

I hate the argument of someone being "unqualified" just because they dont have a university degree. This is absolutely ridiculous. Just because you studied political science, art history, marketing, or whatever DOES NOT mean you are a better/more qualified English teacher than someone who does not have a degree.... How can anyone even begin to argue this point?

I also hate that schools will hire Germans, French, Greeks, Arabs or whoever over a native speaker JUST because they have a degree.... Absolutely ridiculous.

But hey, its the rules, Thailand says to be qualified to teach the ABCs to 5 year olds, you have to have a degree. Otherwise they will hire a German or a Thai over you.

Having a degree means they are more knowledgeable about many things. To say a person without a degree is equal to a person with a degree means that degrees are worthless. I beg to differ. So, beginning with a broader knowledge base makes them better prepared in that regard, first of all. Yes, I have known trained teachers who stink but I will have to confess I have not been exposed to a full-time educator without a degree. Some gifted speakers on various subjects but not classroom teachers.

In the UK you can get a degree for "Surf Boarding".

Can he teach English to your "standard".........?

It's not my standard you are debating. Argue with all the nations that believe a degree demonstrates a basic knowledge skill set which is superior to not having that knowledge base. Good luck of changing that outlook.

[wwest5829]

I hate the argument of someone being "unqualified" just because they dont have a university degree. This is absolutely ridiculous. Just because you studied political science, art history, marketing, or whatever DOES NOT mean you are a better/more qualified English teacher than someone who does not have a degree.... How can anyone even begin to argue this point?

I also hate that schools will hire Germans, French, Greeks, Arabs or whoever over a native speaker JUST because they have a degree.... Absolutely ridiculous.

I

But hey, its the rules, Thailand says to be qualified to teach the ABCs to 5 year olds, you have to have a degree. Otherwise they will hire a German or a Thai over you.

Having a degree means they are more knowledgeable about many things. To say a person without a degree is equal to a person with a degree means that degrees are worthless. I beg to differ. So, beginning with a broader knowledge base makes them better prepared in that regard, first of all. Yes, I have known trained teachers who stink but I will have to confess I have not been exposed to a full-time educator without a degree. Some gifted speakers on various subjects but not classroom teachers.

Degrees are worthless unless they are directly related to your job. To say you are more knowledgeable because you have a degree is a very broad blanket statement which is patently erroneous. If you studied marketing, you know more about marketing than I do, granted. But that doesn't mean you know anything more about anything else than I do - teaching English included. Education depends greatly upon the person. Yesterday I read Around The World In 80 Days - why ? Because I wanted to. I know more about that book than someone who hasn't read it. I don't care what your degree is in, if you haven't read this book, I know more about it than you do. There should be a test and / or a short course that all prospective teachers can take in order to qualify for a work permit dependent upon their passing the test. Of course those with educational degrees should be given priority - there is no denying this.

Hmm, where I come from teachers are required to take those tests and thus become certified to teach. Is it an ironclad guarantee that the person will be a good teacher? No, and one can find some who definitely are not good teachers. Sorry, but overall, I will continue to hold that a person with a degree has a better knowledge base than a person without the degree. I should state, in the interest of full disclosure, that I also contend that therein lies the value of liberal arts degrees. It is this knowledge base that allows the teacher to search for examples with which the student can identify. After 45 years in the classroom, forgive me, but I also believe I have more knowledge upon which I base my answer.

Edited July 4, 2014 by wwest5829

[brewsterbudgen]

The CELTA is a great course, especially for new teachers. There are plenty of language schools that will hire you with a CELTA (and the YL extension if you want to teach young learners) but the lack of a degree will reduce your earning potential and make the 'red tape' more difficult. Hundreds manage to do it, so go for it.

[ebonykap]

Well your written English seems far better than many who consider themselves qualified to teach and who then make the mistake of attempting to post here, totally destroying that illusion.

I have enjoyed each and every time I've had the opportunity to teach someone language and it just feels like a natural calling for me.

I suppose enjoying what you are doing is important, but in your entire opening post there was almost no mention of your students, past or future. Any time I ever interviewed prospective teachers in the past I always expected them to discuss what they were bringing to the table that would benefit their students and/or how they would motivated students and/or how they managed the learning experiences to best serve the interest of their students.

Reading through some of the posts in this forum, I would say that students seem to figure pretty low in the concerns & priorities of those who teach or administer here. It seems the main focus in this forum is on having some good times in exotic Thailand, coping with teacher chores that reduce the time available for having good times here in exotic Thailand, getting hired with minimal qualifications and, of course, occasionally spouting nonsense/excuses about how backward Thai schools are because they don't employ "best practices," with no view to making these alleged best practices relevant to the students one deals with in a real Thai classroom.

So I guess if you have a pulse someone will hire you to fill a vacancy but still leave a void.

You are absolutely right.... Foreigners dont come to Thailand to teach English.... Teaching English is just a means.... Its what they do to allow them to live here. These people didnt wake up one day with a passion to teach people English. Their passion is being in Thailand. Teaching English just allows them to stay here.

I really wish some people here would use quantifiers, rather than generalisations, when trying to get their point across.

I decided three years ago to live in Thailand after visiting here as a tourist several times. This country has everything I need; lovely people, nice climate and great food, along with a relaxed, laid back lifestyle.

I am over retirement age, but not ready for the scrap-heap just yet. However, without a degree (I have an Associate Diploma in Marketing), I realise my options for work here are extremely limited, so I have spent my three years here on an ED visa learning the Thai language.

I spent 30 years in management and marketing, and the most rewarding aspect of the various positions I held was, for me, training and developing my staff. I felt immense satisfaction at knowing that I had a part in helping my colleagues achieve their goals. Unfortunately, due to the rules and regulations in Thailand, I am unable to seek work teaching here, and I would really like to give something back to the country and the people that have (so far) given me so much.

Results of two psychological studies conducted 4 years apart surprisingly, to me at least, gave similar results. Verbal Aptitude 98%, Clerical Aptitude 95%, and Abstract Thinking 74%. The overall conclusion from both studies was that "He is an extremely gifted person intellectually" (their words, not mine ).

So I guess, KennyN, you are quite right in saying that I didn't/couldn't come to Thailand to teach English, and financially I don't need to. But I can't help thinking that I still have something to offer. Not as a means for living here, but as a real contribution to some peoples' lives.

[tingtongteesood]

I hate the argument of someone being "unqualified" just because they dont have a university degree. This is absolutely ridiculous. Just because you studied political science, art history, marketing, or whatever DOES NOT mean you are a better/more qualified English teacher than someone who does not have a degree.... How can anyone even begin to argue this point?

I also hate that schools will hire Germans, French, Greeks, Arabs or whoever over a native speaker JUST because they have a degree.... Absolutely ridiculous.

I

But hey, its the rules, Thailand says to be qualified to teach the ABCs to 5 year olds, you have to have a degree. Otherwise they will hire a German or a Thai over you.

Having a degree means they are more knowledgeable about many things. To say a person without a degree is equal to a person with a degree means that degrees are worthless. I beg to differ. So, beginning with a broader knowledge base makes them better prepared in that regard, first of all. Yes, I have known trained teachers who stink but I will have to confess I have not been exposed to a full-time educator without a degree. Some gifted speakers on various subjects but not classroom teachers.

Degrees are worthless unless they are directly related to your job. To say you are more knowledgeable because you have a degree is a very broad blanket statement which is patently erroneous. If you studied marketing, you know more about marketing than I do, granted. But that doesn't mean you know anything more about anything else than I do - teaching English included. Education depends greatly upon the person. Yesterday I read Around The World In 80 Days - why ? Because I wanted to. I know more about that book than someone who hasn't read it. I don't care what your degree is in, if you haven't read this book, I know more about it than you do. There should be a test and / or a short course that all prospective teachers can take in order to qualify for a work permit dependent upon their passing the test. Of course those with educational degrees should be given priority - there is no denying this.

Hmm, where I come from teachers are required to take those tests and thus become certified to teach. Is it an ironclad guarantee that the person will be a good teacher? No, and one can find some who definitely are not good teachers. Sorry, but overall, I will continue to hold that a person with a degree has a better knowledge base than a person without the degree. I should state, in the interest of full disclosure, that I also contend that therein lies the value of liberal arts degrees. It is this knowledge base that allows the teacher to search for examples with which the student can identify. After 45 years in the classroom, forgive me, but I also believe I have more knowledge upon which I base my answer.

No, it is not iron clad but neither is having a degree, nothing is iron clad. But such tests would be more useful as they could check you have the correct skills and aptitude whilst a degree doesn't. You can continue to hold your belief despite it's fallacies, that is your prerogative. Yes, I don't have a degree but I can use words like aptitude, fallacies and prerogative, surprise ! A degree is mostly meaningless unless it is directly related to the job, though I concede in many cases there may be something of use for teaching, but mostly not. There are a great many things you can learn by yourself for free because you choose to do so and this is of equal value. If you have the will and the want to do a particular job, you should be given a chance regardless of the possession of a degree or not to prove yourself.

[mikecat]

Firstly congratulations on your decision to try teaching in Thailand, your enthusiasm to become a teacher will filter down to your future students.

Please dont let what I have to say discourage you just keep it in mind when you finally make your decision.

Finding a school wont be a problem, finding a good school will be, many schools dont care if your a good teacher or not, qualified or not they just want a body in the position so be wary of this when applying and interviewing for jobs.

Stay away from agencies most of them suck.

The problem with not having a degree is that the Teachers Council wont provide a waver or teachers licence, they have become even stricter with this of late and are now talking about requiring a degree with an English component. No waver no work permit.

Some schools are getting around this by creating positions or job titles that dont have a teaching componant thus skirting around the Teachers council. You will then be able to hopefully obtain your work permit and visa. Keep in mind that if this is the route you go down it is technically illigal to teach.

There are many, many teachers working here in schools illigally on a variety of visas. This is not a good option for a whole range of obvious reasons. Also with the ever tightening of visa restrictions many of these options as a long term prospect are closing down.

As several people have posted, this is Thailand and where there is a will there is a way.

The weekend degree option looks like it might be an option for you and me the way things are going.

Good luck I hope you make it.

[attrayant]

Having a degree means they are more knowledgeable about many things.

Which is great if you're an aspiring Jeopardy! contestant. But it's next to worthless for an aspiring teacher. Being able to express your subject simply and eloquently, in an enjoyable manner is what matters here. Yes, you need to know the nuts and bolt of your discipline, but holding a degree is no guarantee of that.

As I've posted many times before in these discussions, the degree is required because most Thai employers are not in a position to expertly evaluate an applicant's skills and ability, so they target degree holders with the hope that degree = good teacher. Unfortunately, quite often degree ≠ good teacher.

[Emster23]

They just love certificates and diplomas here, more so even than the west. Maybe you should take a trip down to Khao San University and see what they have to offer. Energy, enthusiasm, and a desire to improve one's skills are important, and seems you have those qualities. Some of best teachers I've met in my life have never been to University, and some of the worst have those degrees. If it were up to me, I'd give you a chance for sure. I have 105 credit hours beyond a masters in teaching, decades of experience. Seems much of the time that depending on some piece of paper is a rule to more cover the backside of administrator who lacks ability to tell difference between sh*t and shinola.

[p_brownstone]

My main objection to the "English Teachers" in Thailand is exactly this .....they "believe" they can teach - but in the case of most here their only claim to being called a "Teacher" is the fact that they speak English as a Native Language - and of course the colour of their skin:

I will always remember my first teacher in Primary School back in the UK, she was a truly dedicated professional and gave me a love of learning which has stayed with me to this day.

The TEFLERs and such here in Thailand simply do not understand their responsibilities to young minds in that way, and, much more importantly, the irreparable damage they can do to their Students hopes and visions by their inattention to their charges as individuals - while they themselves mark time, desperately waiting for the Bell to ring so they can rush off to their local Bar.

To the vast majority of these people, it's not a "vocation", it's barely a "job", it's somewhere where they earn money - simply that.

Patrick

Edited July 4, 2014 by p_brownstone

[ice4351]

Everyone thinks they can teach. A lot of people try to teach, but are not good, even after 4-5 years of training. And you think you can be a quality teacher with no training? You are one of the problems Thailand has as they have to hire unqualified people who try to teach! Very sad!

[brewsterbudgen]

Everyone thinks they can teach. A lot of people try to teach, but are not good, even after 4-5 years of training. And you think you can be a quality teacher with no training? You are one of the problems Thailand has as they have to hire unqualified people who try to teach! Very sad!

I you pass the CELTA (or equivalent) you can teach TEFL.

[epicstuff]

Without a degree you will have limited options and right now the visa situation does not bode well for those trying to stay in the country without proper credentials.

Best of luck, however. You may get lucky.

I think the visa situation may be the impetus for his new inspiration. lol

And is there anything wrong with that. ??? so what if foreigners doesn't come with the sole intention to teach . Everybody needs to earn money, everybody needs to find a way to maintain a visa requirement in a foreign land. As long as they have an honest intention to make a difference and try their best. Same with any job, whether you're a maid, masseuse or a lawyer. You are wasting someone's time and money if you have no intention to work hard and do a good job..

[twodreamers]

Everyone thinks they can teach. A lot of people try to teach, but are not good, even after 4-5 years of training. And you think you can be a quality teacher with no training? You are one of the problems Thailand has as they have to hire unqualified people who try to teach! Very sad!

With all due respect part of the reason I made this thread so I could get qualified to become a teacher. Everybody has to start somewhere. I'm not totally inexperienced - I did not just wake up one morning and decide to live it up in Thailand and teach English a few hours a week to fund my Singha habit. I have known for some time I could do it and the more and more I learn the more I believe it.

I have spent time in Thailand, I speak some Thai, can eat the food with the most Isaan of people, have studied buddhism and have spent the last six months studying what it will take to make a good teacher through some great reading resources from my local library. I will get more qualified as time goes on, as I will almost certainly want to teach back in the UK at some point, though not for a long time yet.

I believe I can make a positive difference to children/teenagers/adults who want to learn English. Anyone who believes that should at least try.

Edited July 4, 2014 by twodreamers

[Robert2006]

I hate the argument of someone being "unqualified" just because they dont have a university degree. This is absolutely ridiculous. Just because you studied political science, art history, marketing, or whatever DOES NOT mean you are a better/more qualified English teacher than someone who does not have a degree.... How can anyone even begin to argue this point?

I also hate that schools will hire Germans, French, Greeks, Arabs or whoever over a native speaker JUST because they have a degree.... Absolutely ridiculous.

But hey, its the rules, Thailand says to be qualified to teach the ABCs to 5 year olds, you have to have a degree. Otherwise they will hire a German or a Thai over you.

Almost as ridiculous as trying to argue someone can simply be a teacher of English just because they happen to be a NES.

Teaching is a profession.

Teaching English isn’t freaking brain surgery, it is an ability that can be learned by anyone sufficiently motivated to learn the skill. Given the choice it would preferable to learn English from a teacher that was not a native speaker.

Thailand needs all the help it can get with English, the rigid thinking that only someone with a degree can become an effective English teacher is narrow-minded.

[cornishcarlos]

What was that old saying??

"Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach"

Probably the wrong use of commas in that, but someone with a degree will correct me

[brewsterbudgen]

What was that old saying??

"Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach"

Probably the wrong use of commas in that, but someone with a degree will correct me

Those who can't do, teach. And those who can't teach, teach gym.

(Woody Allen)

[cornishcarlos]

What was that old saying??

"Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach"

Probably the wrong use of commas in that, but someone with a degree will correct me

Those who can't do, teach. And those who can't teach, teach gym.

(Woody Allen)

I was close

[NeverSure]

Thanks for the responses everyone, and for the encouraging PMs I have received.

I do agree about the 'fly-by-night' teachers - the ones that are here to booze and womanise don't do anyone any favours. However some that use it to travel are diligent and pragmatic and put in the work required - I met quite a few in my time in Thailand.

The minority of bad teachers that I met were actually my inspiration to eventually become a teacher. I believe I have the skills and know how not only in the English language, but with the ability to engage people and make them learn. I have been a salesman in a previous career and being creative and engaging with language is a must, as it is in the classroom. I believe I can be a good teacher, and I'm determined to prove it.

While I will start in Thailand (and may spend four years + there at this rate) I wanted to teach in other countries too. I have friends who are loving teaching in Vietnam, and it would be mutually beneficial for me and my future students for me to experience as many languages and cultures as possible.

It looks like my plan now will be to obtain a TEFL/TESOL/CELTA in Thailand, try and get work without a degree (by the looks of it there are ways - if not easy ones - to do this) I will then begin the TESOL BA as provided by Thongsook.

I wish you well. I visited two female Thai teachers I know in Isaan. They invited me to go to their schools with them to visit. In both cases I was offered a job. The schools had never had an NES. English was taught by Thais who couldn't carry on a decent conversation in English.

In one case I was invited to teach for a couple of days with the Thai teacher observing. I did, and I had a lot of fun. I taught the kids to say the basic colors. I'd find something that was blue, write blue on the chalk board, say blue, and quickly switch to red so they'd get the idea. In just one hour those kids were doing a pretty good job of saying the colors with me just pointing to a chalk board and holding up the matching color.

I moved around staying animated to keep their attention. Give me a year with those kids and they will be talking to me - something they will probably never be able to do.

[nongsangcity]

Go as an English advisor or a teaching assistance,,,,..... you can get a work permit with help from the right school...I know plenty of teachers here who have degrees but they arnt interested in work permits.......people are happy to work under the radar and get cash in hand,,,,...having a work permit can cause havoc with your visas .....good luck to you...

[brucetefl]

Those that say its impossible to get a B visa and a work permit without a degree are simply wrong. A good number of the students taking our BA TESOL degree are obtaining waivers, B visas and work permits. Not all, but a good number.

I have been involved in English teaching in Thailand since 1996. During that time I have yet to meet ANYONE who really waned to teach English in thailand who could not attain their goal.

[Maestro]

Go as an English advisor or a teaching assistance,,,,..... you can get a work permit with help from the right school...I know plenty of teachers here who have degrees but they arnt interested in work permits.......people are happy to work under the radar and get cash in hand,,,,...having a work permit can cause havoc with your visas .....good luck to you...

Working without a work permit is bad advice, and from my reading of the OP's posts is in now way what he would consider doing.

[Johpa]

I have met some folks without degrees who become good teachers, especially those who have the gift for working with young children. ( I have long had a MATESL degree and I am useless teaching young children) I have met some teachers with graduate degrees like myself who are lousy teachers. But on average the folks with degrees are far better teachers than those without degrees. And the older the students, where the need for more advanced skills becomes more common, the more the degree comes into play when trying to diagnose and explain specific linguistic issues. Just one relatively simply example would be trying to explain to a young adult learner who asks the rules for just the regular plural formation in English.

[BudRight]

You have gotten some extremely poor, insulting and ignorant advice on here.

Being a 'good' teacher is one of the least important qualities as far the MoE is concerned.

They want credentials.

1. A undergraduate degree in Education.

Without this you'll be on waivers.

2. Culture course.

A waste of time corruption class. See if you can pay someone to go in your stead.

3. A school willing to hire you.

This will be the only group that cares about how 'good' a teacher you are. And they should care about the previous two things as well.

Really, go back to wherever you're from a and get a teacher's license, then come back with it. That's the smartest route.

[up-country_sinclair]

In my opinion the OP should get qualified in his/her own country and then come to Thailand to teach. The country, it's culture and people will still be here whenever he/she meets the minimum qualifications. Coming here now and enrolling in a BA course that will be of questionable use outside of Thailand is very short sighted. Not to mention that he/she would be working on an Education visa, which to the best of my knowledge is illegal. According to two posts on this thread the possibility of a "waiver" exists, but I wouldn't recommend putting oneself in what is undeniably a vulnerable position if the immigration or work permit officers come calling.

Edited July 4, 2014 by up-country_sinclair

[techboy]

For pete's sake. You may just bore 'em to death before the learn a word!