Israel prepares for ground military operation, 98 dead in Gaza Strip airstrikes

[Ulysses G.]

It’s a pity you cant admit the same, that people like this lurk in the ranks of the IDF too.

You keep trying to suggest some kind of moral equivalency by ignoring the fact that Hamas not only encourages these kinds of war crimes, but celebrates them and, by the way, Fatah - the other half of the Palestinian Authority - joined in the jubilation about killing these innocent children as well. And lets not forget the crowds of Palestinian people cheering as rockets are launched at civilians in Israel. Murdering civilians is almost official policy.

Israel is carrying out the most specific and targeted campaign in the history of war in order to stop Hamas – a group dedicated to the destruction of all Jews – from firing thousands of rockets into the Jewish homeland. The policy of the Israeli government, in contrast  to the Palestinians, is to do everything possible to avoid civilian casualties, while still carrying out the mission to destroy the rockets and ammunition being stored in hospitals, schools and Mosques in Gaza. There may be a few "psychopaths" in the IDF - like any Army - but Israel does everything they can to discourage and punish them - the direct opposite of Hamas. Trying to pretend that Israel has anything in common with Islamic terrorists, just makes one look foolish.  

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76FGGUYTJM0

[kblaze]

 

It’s a pity you cant admit the same, that people like this lurk in the ranks of the IDF too.

You keep trying to suggest some kind of moral equivalency by ignoring the fact that Hamas not only encourages these kinds of war crimes, but celebrates them and, by the way, Fatah - the other half of the Palestinian Authority - joined in the jubilation about killing these innocent children as well. And lets not forget the crowds of Palestinian people cheering as rockets are launched at civilians in Israel. Murdering civilians is almost official policy.

Israel is carrying out the most specific and targeted campaign in the history of war in order to stop Hamas – a group dedicated to the destruction of all Jews – from firing thousands of rockets into the Jewish homeland. The policy of the Israeli government, in contrast  to the Palestinians, is to do everything possible to avoid civilian casualties, while still carrying out the mission to destroy the rockets and ammunition being stored in hospitals, schools and Mosques in Gaza. There may be a few "psychopaths" in the IDF - like any Army - but Israel does everything they can to discourage and punish them - the direct opposite of Hamas. Trying to pretend that Israel has anything in common with Islamic terrorists, just makes one look foolish.  

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76FGGUYTJM0

 

 

Oh dear you aren't really going to stoop low enough to try to justify the bombing of El-Wafa hospital?

 

Do you have a single link to back up that there are rockets and ammo being stored in hospitals? 

[Ulysses G.]

You mean that rockets already found in schools and UN facilities aren't enough evidence of what war crimes Hamas will stoop to?

 

http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/07/18/israels-un-ambassador-says-likely-more-hamas-missiles-at-unrwa-facilities/

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/20/did-the-united-nations-give-rockets-to-hamas.html

 

Reports that Hamas are are transporting themselves around Gaza in ambulances with children in them, to avoid being targeted by the IDF.

 

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/gaza-terrorists-using-ambulances-and-kids-to-move-around-safely/2014/07/18/

 

 

[kblaze]

You mean that rockets already found in schools and UN facilities aren't enough evidence of what war crimes Hamas will stoop to?

 

http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/07/18/israels-un-ambassador-says-likely-more-hamas-missiles-at-unrwa-facilities/

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/20/did-the-united-nations-give-rockets-to-hamas.html

 

Reports that Hamas are are transporting themselves around Gaza in ambulances with children in them, to avoid being targeted by the IDF.

 

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/gaza-terrorists-using-ambulances-and-kids-to-move-around-safely/2014/07/18/

 

 

 

So you admit you have no evidence to back up your claim they are using hospitals to store rockets and ammo? Just more spin?

 

 

Just looking at the titles of the links you post makes me chuckle;

 

Link 1: "Israel's UN ambassador" - Unbiased right?

 

Link 2: "Did the UN give rockets to Hamas?" - LOL no words needed

 

Link 3: "Jewishpress.com" - Unbiased right? Even more funny is when you open the link; here is the full text of the "report":

 

"A senior IDF officer reports that terrorists in Gaza are transporting themselves around Gaza via ambulances with children in them, to avoid being targeted by the IDF."

 

yup. thats it.

[Ulysses G.]

 

You mean that rockets already found in schools and UN facilities aren't enough evidence of what war crimes Hamas will stoop to?
 
http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/07/18/israels-un-ambassador-says-likely-more-hamas-missiles-at-unrwa-facilities/
 
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/20/did-the-united-nations-give-rockets-to-hamas.html
 
Reports that Hamas are are transporting themselves around Gaza in ambulances with children in them, to avoid being targeted by the IDF.
 
http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/gaza-terrorists-using-ambulances-and-kids-to-move-around-safely/2014/07/18/

 
So you admit you have no evidence to back up your claim they are using hospitals to store rockets and ammo?

 

Only statements by the IDF, so far, and of course, according to you, all Jews - that don't agree with you - are lying "biased". Schools and Mosques aren't enough? 

[Jingthing]

Don't y'all think this is getting kind of tedious?

I propose we accept the opinions of Jews (Israeli or otherwise), Muslims (Palestinians or otherwise), and last but not least Baha'i people for consideration based on the MERITS of their arguments rather than their religion/ethnicity/nationality.

Sound good, mateys? 

[Ulysses G.]

Just looking at the titles of the links you post makes me chuckle;

Well, maybe you should stop cheery picking the ones that fit your agenda as "biased sources". Somehow, you "missed" these or are they all written by "biased Jews" too?:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/10322814/Mubarak-fired-the-first-shots-of-the-Yom-Kippur-war.html

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/bill-maher-and-conservative-guest-surprisingly-agree-on-whos-to-blame-for-gaza-civilian-deaths/

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/21/opinion/oren-hamas-media-strategy/index.html

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/01/israel-vows-hamas-pay-murder-teenagers

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/unrwa-investigating-20-rockets-empty-gaza-school-palestinian

Do I need to keep going?

[kblaze]

 

 

You mean that rockets already found in schools and UN facilities aren't enough evidence of what war crimes Hamas will stoop to?
 
http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/07/18/israels-un-ambassador-says-likely-more-hamas-missiles-at-unrwa-facilities/
 
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/20/did-the-united-nations-give-rockets-to-hamas.html
 
Reports that Hamas are are transporting themselves around Gaza in ambulances with children in them, to avoid being targeted by the IDF.
 
http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/gaza-terrorists-using-ambulances-and-kids-to-move-around-safely/2014/07/18/

 
So you admit you have no evidence to back up your claim they are using hospitals to store rockets and ammo?

 

Only statements by the IDF, so far, and of course, according to you, all Jews - that don't agree with you - are lying "biased". Schools and Mosques aren't enough? 

 

 

I let you say it once, but can't twice. I have NEVER said that all Jews that don't agree with me are biased. NEVER.

 

You are digging yourself into a hole.

 

Do you have a link that shows the IDF saying that they found rockets and ammo in a hospital? 

[kblaze]

 

Just looking at the titles of the links you post makes me chuckle;

Well, maybe you should stop cheery picking the ones that fit your agenda as "biased sources". Somehow, you "missed" these or are they all written by "biased Jews" too?:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/10322814/Mubarak-fired-the-first-shots-of-the-Yom-Kippur-war.html

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/bill-maher-and-conservative-guest-surprisingly-agree-on-whos-to-blame-for-gaza-civilian-deaths/

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/21/opinion/oren-hamas-media-strategy/index.html

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/01/israel-vows-hamas-pay-murder-teenagers

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/unrwa-investigating-20-rockets-empty-gaza-school-palestinian

Do I need to keep going?

 

 

Not sure what your point is? Are you asking if I find bias in these links?

 

Well they are all fine in my view as they aren't opinion pieces, EXCEPT for the middle CNN one.

[Morch]

 

No. Purposely. More like this:

 

 

 

The hateful crime that sparked the current conflict. 

 

"This evening, we found three bodies and all the signs indicate that they are the bodies of our three kidnapped youngsters," Netanyahu told ministers at the start of an emergency session of his security cabinet. "They were kidnapped and murdered in cold blood by human animals,"

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/01/israel-vows-hamas-pay-murder-teenagers

 

 

I have previously condemned the killers of these 3 Israeli teenagers as psychopathic murderers. It’s a pity you cant admit the same, that people like this lurk in the ranks of the IDF too.

 

Netanyahu was informed within the first few hours that they were probably dead and the names of the 2 killers also, rogue elements of a Hebron clan, were known to police very quickly too...they demolished their parents’ houses. But he ordered a media blackout and launched Operation Brothers Keeper smashing up Palestinian homes and arresting 500 Hamas affiliates without a shred of evidence so that ostensibly he could try to find them, thus tormenting the boys’ poor parents

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Protective_Edge

 

He chose to make this incident his pretext for the present invasion of Gaza, in order to break up the unity government of Hamas and PA. Unfortunately his reckless actions have caused the deaths of 27 more Israelis too.

 

 

Rinse, repeat.

 

Seems like some posters keep having trouble accepting that complex situations are very rarely born out of single incidents, or that single incidents are very rarely the the sole cause that set events in motion.

 

The fact that the kidnapped were most likely dead was known pretty early and not released to the general public. This may be interpreted in more than one way - for example, in order to avoid (or minimize) the backlash from the Jewish public, as seen right after the announcement. Probably not a great idea to have that going on while searching for the bodies and the killers. There could have been other considerations pertaining to the investigation - but no need to let that stand in the way of a good chance to conjure up a cunning plan by Israel.

 

The identity of the killers was known quickly too, right. The rogue elements of a Hebron clan bit is a nice deflection - the Hamas connections were known as well. There was more than this one liner regarding the killers background on local media, which as far as I understand, makes the rogue thing more like mixing criminal and political - not that uncommon with some groups. Could have missed something, but last I read - only one part of a house (where one of the killers resided) was demolished (and as a side note - demolishing houses is both wrong and useless). The Hamas "affiliates" were arrested partly as a means to get closer to the killers, and partly in order to break down Hamas resurgence as a terrorist threat on the West Bank. Note that Abbas took his time whining about this and that the PA's security forces were aiding the effort (to a degree). If the "shred of evidence" is about involvement in the kidnapping, I would say that is probably right - more like mass rounding up of usual suspects. There was enough too throw some of them back in jail over other offenses, though, and of course, with the West Bank being under either PA rule or IDF military rule - authorities have quite a leeway for such actions (again, this is not a good thing, just stating a fact).

 

Pinning the current round of hostilities with Hamas on this, as an Israeli plan - might cover some of it at best. It is, however, a very partial view of forces, factors, causes and events effecting the situation and its dynamics. Repeatedly ignoring Hamas economic troubles and their implications on its hold on the Gaza Strip, painting a false image of the Palestinian reconciliation effort as being anywhere near being a done deal, not addressing the internal power plays and domestic politics plaguing t e Palestinians - all hint at either a concentrated effort to present a biased point of view as "true" reality, or a serious lack of

knowledge as to details relating to these issues.

 

 

 

Saying that the killers are "psychopathic" (I wouldn't know if they are) murderers does not mean that every attack by the IDF ought to be tagged in same way. Sure, there are nutcases in the IDF, same as every army. By and large, the IDF is not really that bad as much as it is under constant media coverage while carrying out operations to do with civilians.

 

I do not think that the IDF specifically, intentionally, deliberately (or whatever fits) targets civilians as a policy. That is not to say civilians do not get killed - mistakes do happen, operations do take place in places where civilians reside, and as with almost  any army there are isolated instances where soldiers do things they are not supposed to. But as a policy - doubt it.

[Morch]

 

 

 

You mean that rockets already found in schools and UN facilities aren't enough evidence of what war crimes Hamas will stoop to?
 
http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/07/18/israels-un-ambassador-says-likely-more-hamas-missiles-at-unrwa-facilities/
 
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/20/did-the-united-nations-give-rockets-to-hamas.html
 
Reports that Hamas are are transporting themselves around Gaza in ambulances with children in them, to avoid being targeted by the IDF.
 
http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/gaza-terrorists-using-ambulances-and-kids-to-move-around-safely/2014/07/18/

 
So you admit you have no evidence to back up your claim they are using hospitals to store rockets and ammo?

 

Only statements by the IDF, so far, and of course, according to you, all Jews - that don't agree with you - are lying "biased". Schools and Mosques aren't enough? 

 

 

I let you say it once, but can't twice. I have NEVER said that all Jews that don't agree with me are biased. NEVER.

 

You are digging yourself into a hole.

 

Do you have a link that shows the IDF saying that they found rockets and ammo in a hospital? 

 

 

The IDF certainly said, on record, that hospitals were used as launching areas for rockets. There were even aerial photos released. But if I'm getting the gist of your argument with UG, then you'd just wave it off as unreliable, seeing as it came from an official Israeli source.

 

I can understand that point of view, just not quite sure which sources would be deemed satisfactory. Not like journalists are up in the air over Gaza and can supply the same, not sure how many of them are really on site when things go down (as opposed to being in Gaza - remembering some of the BBC and CNN coverage in Bangkok 2010...). I think that the rockets found with the UN (a story which was not denied, and widely covered) would be a good enough example, though.

[dexterm]

 

 

No. Purposely. More like this:

 

 

 

The hateful crime that sparked the current conflict. 

 

"This evening, we found three bodies and all the signs indicate that they are the bodies of our three kidnapped youngsters," Netanyahu told ministers at the start of an emergency session of his security cabinet. "They were kidnapped and murdered in cold blood by human animals,"

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/01/israel-vows-hamas-pay-murder-teenagers

 

 

I have previously condemned the killers of these 3 Israeli teenagers as psychopathic murderers. It’s a pity you cant admit the same, that people like this lurk in the ranks of the IDF too.

 

Netanyahu was informed within the first few hours that they were probably dead and the names of the 2 killers also, rogue elements of a Hebron clan, were known to police very quickly too...they demolished their parents’ houses. But he ordered a media blackout and launched Operation Brothers Keeper smashing up Palestinian homes and arresting 500 Hamas affiliates without a shred of evidence so that ostensibly he could try to find them, thus tormenting the boys’ poor parents

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Protective_Edge

 

He chose to make this incident his pretext for the present invasion of Gaza, in order to break up the unity government of Hamas and PA. Unfortunately his reckless actions have caused the deaths of 27 more Israelis too.

 

 

Rinse, repeat.

 

Seems like some posters keep having trouble accepting that complex situations are very rarely born out of single incidents,

or that single incidents are very rarely the the sole cause that set events in motion.

 

The fact that the kidnapped were most likely dead was known pretty early and not released to the general public. This may

be interpreted in more than one way - for example, in order to avoid (or minimize) the backlash from the Jewish public, as

seen right after the announcement. Probably not a great idea to have that going on while searching for the bodies and the

killers. There could have been other considerations pertaining to the investigation - but no need to let that stand in the way

of a good chance to conjure up a cunning plan by Israel.

 

The identity of the killers was known quickly too, right. The rogue elements of a Hebron clan bit is a nice deflection - the

Hamas connections were known as well. There was more than this one liner regarding the killers background on local media,

which as far as I understand, makes the rogue thing more like mixing criminal and political - not that uncommon with some

groups. Could have missed something, but last I read - only one part of a house (where one of the killers resided) was

demolished (and as a side note - demolishing houses is both wrong and useless). The Hamas "affiliates" were arrested

partly as a means to get closer to the killers, and partly in order to break down Hamas resurgence as a terrorist threat on

the West Bank. Note that Abbas took his time whining about this and that the PA's security forces were aiding the effort (to

a degree). If the "shred of evidence" is about involvement in the kidnapping, I would say that is probably right - more like

mass rounding up of usual suspects. There was enough too throw some of them back in jail over other offenses, though,

and of course, with the West Bank being under either PA rule or IDF military rule - authorities have quite a leeway for such

actions (again, this is not a good thing, just stating a fact).

 

Pinning the current round of hostilities with Hamas on this, as an Israeli plan - might cover some of it at best. It is, however,

a very partial view of forces, factors, causes and events effecting the situation and its dynamics. Repeatedly ignoring Hamas

economic troubles and their implications on its hold on the Gaza Strip, painting a false image of the Palestinian reconciliation

effort as being anywhere near being a done deal, not addressing the internal power plays and domestic politics plaguing the

Palestinians - all hint at either a concentrated effort to present a biased point of view as "true" reality, or a serious lack of

knowledge as to details relating to these issues.

 

 

 

Saying that the killers are "psychopathic" (I wouldn't know if they are) murderers does not mean that every attack by the IDF

ought to be tagged in same way. Sure, there are nutcases in the IDF, same as every army. By and large, the IDF is not really

that bad as much as it is under constant media coverage while carrying out operations to do with civilians.

 

I do not think that the IDF specifically, intentionally, deliberately (or whatever fits) targets civilians as a policy. That is not to say

civilians do not get killed - mistakes do happen, operations do take place in places where civilians reside, and as with almost 

any army there are isolated instances where soldiers do things they are not supposed to. But as a policy - doubt it.

 

 

Yes, I have to put it on rinse because pro Israeli posters keep muddying the waters chanting the mantra, Stop the rockets.

 

Clearly, it when this present escalation (now mayhem  >600 Pals, and 30 Israelis dead) started June 13, it was nothing to do with rockets. Only 2 in 2 weeks had fallen harmlessly.

 

Yes of course there are complex reasons to a conflict, but someone has to light the firework. Netanyahu did so on 13 June.

 

Hamas affiliates but no direct orders from Hamas leadership. If the thugs who burnt alive the Palestinian boy in Jerusalem had voted Likud, would that make Netanyahu responsible for  his murder?

 

Yes every army has its psychopaths, but as a general policy to use heavy weaponry in a built up area like Gaza is counterproductive for Israel. As today’s Independent newspaper reports “the whole of Gaza is a frontline”.. civilians have nowhere to hide in safety

.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-families-search-for-a-place-of-safety-from-the-violence-but-the-frontline-is-everywhere-in-gaza-9621948.html

 

Israel must know this will result in very high innocent civilian casualties..which at best is not good publicity for Israel’s cause, and at worst has already had calls from Israeli civil rights groups for war crimes indictments.

[Ulysses G.]

[
Hamas affiliates but no direct orders from Hamas leadership.

How do YOU know, where their orders came from? You don't.

[up-country_sinclair]

The US Federal Aviation Authority made the sensible decision to half flights of all US airlines into Tel Aviv.  News reports indicate that that Europe will follow suit.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/23/world/middleeast/faa-halts-us-flights-to-israel.html

[dexterm]

 

[
Hamas affiliates but no direct orders from Hamas leadership.

How do YOU know, where their orders came from? You don't.

 

 

Neither does the Israeli government or Shin Bet apparently, because no evidence has been produced so far. It would be absolute gold to Netanyahu if he could prove direct orders.

 

[kblaze]

 

 

The IDF certainly said, on record, that hospitals were used as launching areas for rockets. There were even aerial

photos released. But if I'm getting the gist of your argument with UG, then you'd just wave it off as unreliable, seeing

as it came from an official Israeli source.

 

I can understand that point of view, just not quite sure which sources would be deemed satisfactory. Not like journalists

are up in the air over Gaza and can supply the same, not sure how many of them are really on site when things go down

(as opposed to being in Gaza - remembering some of the BBC and CNN coverage in Bangkok 2010...). I think that the

rockets found with the UN (a story which was not denied, and widely covered) would be a good enough example, though.

 

 

If its from the IDF then yes it should be treated with suspicion as they are one side of the conflict. 

 

Do I throw it away? No, I treat it with suspicion. Just as there is some truth in some of what is being reported by Hamas, there will be some truth in some of what is reported by the IDF.

 

Now, since IDF certainly said it, can you provide a link of some kind so I can educate myself? I'm suspicious because the only report I read quoted an IDF spokesman saying they believed they saw a military target 100 meters from el-Wafa hospital (and thus bombed the hospital - gotta love the pinpoint IDF missiles).   

[Ulysses G.]

It would be absolute gold to Netanyahu if he could prove direct orders.

He knows Hamas members did it and that they are sending 100s of rockets into Israel and have been before this incident happened . "Proving" anything further is not going to make much difference to the general public and - as you know - the Israel bashers will try to spin it, no matter what further evidence surfaces.

[dexterm]

 

It would be absolute gold to Netanyahu if he could prove direct orders.

He knows Hamas members did it and that they are sending 100s of rockets into Israel and have been before this incident happened . "Proving" anything further is not going to make much difference to the general public and - as you know - the Israel bashers will try to spin it, no matter what further evidence surfaces.

 

 

So we are agreed then...no direct orders from Hamas leadership. Thank you.

[Ulysses G.]

I have little doubt that Hamas did order it, but I could care less, if it is proven further. The circumstantial evidence in overwhelming. 

[dexterm]

I have little doubt that Hamas did order it, but I could care less, if it is proven further. The circumstantial evidence in overwhelming. 

 

It's a terrible thing to go to war causing hundreds of casualties based merely on a hypothetical.

[ggold]

 

I am curious! a question to the pro Hamas or Palestinian posters.

 

If it were the other way around and it was hamas who had a greater success over Israel, would you be as vociferous about the killing of Israeli's?  

 

 

So you believe if someone protests against this aggression...they must support Hamas...

 

 

 

That was not the question was it! The question was

 

 

If it were the other way around and it was hamas who had a greater success over Israel, would you be as vociferous about the killing of Israeli's?

 

would you like another stab at it?

[ggold]

 

I am curious! a question to the pro Hamas or Palestinian posters.

 

If it were the other way around and it was hamas who had a greater success over Israel, would you be as vociferous about the killing of Israeli's?  

 

The straw man fallacy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

 

Invent a hypothetical then treat it as if it were real.

 

Any man who kills innocent children is a terrorist.

 

 

who said anything about it being real? Simply a question if you don't want to answer it why comment?
 

[dexterm]

 

 

I am curious! a question to the pro Hamas or Palestinian posters.

 

If it were the other way around and it was hamas who had a greater success over Israel, would you be as vociferous about the killing of Israeli's?  

 

 

So you believe if someone protests against this aggression...they must support Hamas...

 

 

 

That was not the question was it! The question was

 

 

If it were the other way around and it was hamas who had a greater success over Israel, would you be as vociferous about the killing of Israeli's?

 

would you like another stab at it?

 

 

Another hypothetical. Don't you people ever deal with reality?

[ggold]

 

 

 

I am curious! a question to the pro Hamas or Palestinian posters.

 

If it were the other way around and it was hamas who had a greater success over Israel, would you be as vociferous about the killing of Israeli's?  

 

 

So you believe if someone protests against this aggression...they must support Hamas...

 

 

 

That was not the question was it! The question was

 

 

If it were the other way around and it was hamas who had a greater success over Israel, would you be as vociferous about the killing of Israeli's?

 

would you like another stab at it?

 

 

Another hypothetical. Don't you people ever deal with reality?

 

 

and what do you mean "you People" ?

 

 

[ggold]

Some of you have a hard time dealing with reality, trying to claim that Israel fired the first shot or that this has to do with the killing of the 3 Israeli teenagers. It may have been the culmination that started the latest conflict but Hamas have been firing rockets into Israel continuously.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2014

 

January 13

Two rockets were launched to the Northern Negev desert, near Sderot. There were no injuries or damage reported.^[8]

 

 

Just because most of the rockets get intercepted of land in empty spaces doesn't mean Israel doesn't have a right to respond.

 

http://www.thenational.ae/thenationalconversation/comment/gaza-suffers-as-hamas-fights-for-survival-on-several-fronts

 

Hamas has become increasingly isolated, politically and geographically, since the Egyptian army helped oust the Muslim Brotherhood government in early July.

 

 

http://www.clarionproject.org/analysis/arab-world-holds-hamas-responsible-latest-conflict

 

The latest round of fighting is remarkable in what did not happen. There weren’t automatic mass demonstrations against Israel and the West. No major riots or countless photographs of Israeli and American flags on fire across the region. No violence against diplomatic facilities. Even though Fatah fired missiles, there was no large-scale uprising in the West Bank.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ulysses G.]

 

I have little doubt that Hamas did order it, but I could care less, if it is proven further. The circumstantial evidence in overwhelming.

 
It's a terrible thing to go to war causing hundreds of casualties based merely on a hypothetical.

 

Those rockets being fired at civilians every day are not in any way "hypothetical".

[dexterm]

Some of you have a hard time dealing with reality, trying to claim that Israel fired the first shot or that this has to do with the killing of the 3 Israeli teenagers. It may have been the culmination that started the latest conflict but Hamas have been firing rockets into Israel continuously.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2014

 

January 13

Two rockets were launched to the Northern Negev desert, near Sderot. There were no injuries or damage reported.^[8]

 

 

Just because most of the rockets get intercepted of land in empty spaces doesn't mean Israel doesn't have a right to respond.

 

http://www.thenational.ae/thenationalconversation/comment/gaza-suffers-as-hamas-fights-for-survival-on-several-fronts

 

Hamas has become increasingly isolated, politically and geographically, since the Egyptian army helped oust the Muslim Brotherhood government in early July.

 

 

http://www.clarionproject.org/analysis/arab-world-holds-hamas-responsible-latest-conflict

 

The latest round of fighting is remarkable in what did not happen. There weren’t automatic mass demonstrations against Israel and the West. No major riots or countless photographs of Israeli and American flags on fire across the region. No violence against diplomatic facilities. Even though Fatah fired missiles, there was no large-scale uprising in the West Bank.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So we are agreed then that only 2 rockets (June 1 and 11) were fired in the first 2 weeks of June prior to the escalation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2014

 

While in that same 2 weeks Israel had assassinated a Palestinian wounding 3 civilians including a child (11 June)

 

A 51 year old fisherman died of wounds inflicted by IDF on 25 May.

 

Operation Brothers Keeper began on 13 June, a day after the kidnapping. Over the next 11 days Israel arrested over 350 Palestinians, many still in jail without charge, and killed 5 Palestinians

Plus numerous other violations

 

http://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/weekly-report-israeli-human-rights-violations-occupied-448

 

Perhaps if Israel didn’t fire first, Hamas wouldn’t retaliate.

 

On 15 June, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said that the teens had been kidnapped by Hamas,^[2][14] which Hamas denied.^[2] Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas maintained that as of 22 June there was no evidence that Hamas was behind the kidnapping.^[15] Hamas denied any involvement in the kidnapping.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_kidnapping_and_murder_of_Israeli_teenagers

 

15 June Netanyahu made his “Hamas is responsible. Hamas must pay” speech.

 

Everyone conveniently seems to forget what caused the present invasion.

 

btw, You people = Israeli apologists. You will never find an ounce of racism/religionism in me...there's nothing I hate more.

 

Gotta fly...literally.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[up-country_sinclair]

 

Everyone conveniently seems to forget what caused the present invasion.

 

 

 

History won't forget.

[Ulysses G.]

So we are agreed then

 

Why do you keep claiming that people "agree" with you, when they clearly have not? Are you just trying to annoy other posters?

[Ulysses G.]

So we are agreed then that only 2 rockets (June 1 and 11) were fired in the first 2 weeks of June prior to the escalation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2014

Last time you claimed that the escalation was June 28 and I pointed out that there were many rockets before then. Now you move the date back two weeks and claim the same thing. You are changing the goal posts to fit your own narrative.