No more Thai visa runs: Immigration will not let visa runners return after Aug 12

[Pattaya46]

Non-immigrant visa holders are not mentioned in the directive.

Sorry if I missed it, but where can we read this "directive" ?

Would be better to talk about an official document

rather than about some imprecise/inaccurate newspaper articles...

[samran]

A lot of people are going to lose a lot. Including Thais. This is baby with bath water on steroids. Too inflexible and done too fast. It would be OK if there were now easier "real" visas, work permits, including legalization of online freelancing, etc. But there is not. On the condo market, no kidding, this is really bad for places like Pattaya. Cause and effect clearly not well considered on this one.

Who knows.

With the low end law breakers gone, perhaps a bit of decent gentrification could go on. Property prices could rise.

If not, having Pattaya go down the toilet....no bad thing.

[AYJAYDEE]

Oh dear, not good news for many people I'm sure.

I think this is far too much too quickly. I guess if you are working illegally and using back to back tourist visas, well you're not paying tax and it is illegal so the writing was on the wall anyway. If you are however using back to back visas and living on your own money and not working this is unfortunate.

Maybe there will be a sudden increase in student visa applications, not sure, but one thing is for sure a lot of people are going home.

I'm in the second group. My partner and I are nomads, and we support ourselves quite comfortably on the royalties of several novels I published back when I could be bothered to work. We're perpetual tourists, and have no interest in anything other than a life of leisure in whatever warm and pleasant country will have us. Unfortunately, if you were to look at our passports the pattern of tourist visas could easily be mistaken for that of the folk who come here to work illegally.

In the three years we've been coming to Thailand we've usually stayed no more than two or three months at a time before taking a break elsewhere (we've probably only had one actual back-to-back visa in that time, and one same day in-out exemption, if memory serves). We were here for the first few months of 2013, spent two months in Mongolia before coming back to Bangkok for another month, then went to tour Europe for seven months before coming back here for the last three. In two weeks we head back to Mongolia for August, and our plan (which is looking shakier by the day as reports of problems emerge) is to return to Thailand at the start of September for a long stay. I'm guessing our best option would be to enrol in a Thai language course and get an ED visa, but as those will become much more popular as a way for illegal workers to stay in-country I'm concerned they'll start cracking down on those soon enough (and I don't really care to learn another language right now).

Of course it's the prerogative of Thailand to tighten up visa rules, but it's a shame people like me will probably get caught in the dragnet. I don't believe it's the intention of the authorities to oust non-working, cash-rich layabouts, but that will be the effect. I just wish I hadn't recently signed a 12 month lease on an apartment. It'd be much easier if we could bail out and spend a little time elsewhere without losing a hefty deposit.

P.S. I also wish the gloating TV fools on long term visas would give the schadenfreude a rest. The new state of affairs may get rid of a few undesirables, but it will also hurt a lot of honest people who are a positive force for the Thai economy.

a triple entry tourist visa should get you almost 270 days. is that long enough stay?

[noendtoit]

The article is silent about those that obtain a one year O-A from outside the country, and then make 90 day border runs. What about them? There are 100's or even thousands of foreigners that have homes here and live here full time that do that. Why? Maybe not married or not 50 or don't have 800,000 baht in the bank.

Will somebody with an OA still be allowed to do 90 border runs?

READ the original "No More Thai visa runs" article, AGAIN

Okay, I did. I says no more border runs, but on mentions the 60 day thing -- and people that don't have a proper visa. But it also doesn't say what a "proper isa" might be.. Silent about the 90 day runners who actually do have a "proper visa."

My question stands.

[chooka]

Looks like a lot of foreigners are either leaving or will have to get married, have a child or get a retirement visa.

Getting married or getting some bargirl pregnant will not guarantee you a "continued stay" visa in The Land of Smiles. The One-Year Retirement Visa will.

I have a son and have had 3 yearly extensions I did have to go through the family caught to have them recognise me as the father tho. No proof of income just 400K in the bank for 3 months prior to applying for the extension. Not married but have been with my partner for 9 yrs.

[kaorop]

As for the companies that took advantage of the loop holes to pay under minimum wage to teachers, etc. now that it will be universally enforced, the work permit/visa rules should provide an increase in wages for people in this category.

funnily enough I believe there is an exemption for teachers to be paid

less than the 65k,

go figure huh.

an exemption when there is money involved?

who woulda thunk

[FRR]

Looks like a lot of foreigners are either leaving or will have to get married, have a child or get a retirement visa.

condos will be selling for peanuts soon

Doubt this will have any affect on condo sales. I'm guessing, most of the people affected by this don't have the money to buy a condo.

[noendtoit]

how would one stay in thailand full time on a one year Non O A?

O-A visa holder gets 1 year at each entry.

But also have to leave the country every 90 days, right? I never did it, but know a lot of people that have built houses here, live here full time, cross the border every 90 days and go somewhere like back home or to Singapore or somewhere to get a new O-A every year.

I

[AYJAYDEE]

how would one stay in thailand full time on a one year Non O A?

O-A visa holder gets 1 year at each entry.

and doesnt he have to leave the country to get another one?

[misterphil]

Looks like a lot of foreigners are either leaving or will have to get married, have a child or get a retirement visa.

condos will be selling for peanuts soon

I was thinking the same. Keep checking the classifieds for cheap motorbikes etc.

[stevo52]

confused I'm totally confused why do they do all this ! my situation different -- I have woman in Thailand and kiddy but I really don't understand all this visa stuff ! what is their problem I go on normal tourist visa but - there appears be 1/2 a dozen ways you can stay -hm

I don't have $$ retire visa but am retired ( not old ) don't need much money !

what is their problem ! and what visa do you get to just stay in a non hassle situation , I'm not interested running to a border every 30/ 60 days to get a stamp don't they get the gist that some people just want to be left alone in peace their ---------that seemingly is too much to ask ! I get income about 44/ 64k baht a month forever . This criteria hey'' do they want people their or not !

I'm afraid I cant work it out .. they keep on moving the goal posts - you don't know where you are from 1 month to the next ---does nothing for your other half either , they start to think their own government is out to hassle them forever !

At present my Tourist visa runs out I just go to KL stay for 6/ 7 days but hey who can afford to do that forever ???

gee what a country talk about ( hey lets make it impossible for the family man ----yes that's the shot )

they must think everybody is as crook or something - I never been to a que at a border get a visa stamp in life! id not know where to go? and ive been their ( Thailand 19 times nobody has ever said BOO to me !

I'm trying to work out what it is all about ???

if it all gets to much for me ----------guess what il just stay - strange you know! I met a guy in Thailand been their 19 years his passport had died 15 years back he said - I just decided to stay - nobody hassles him ---maybe I should take a page out of his book !

but il be buggered if I will stand in an office proove income get this visa get that visa --- I mean who cares!!! your making life in their country spending your $ in their country ----------does the rest really really matter ??? hey we don't have to be their ---we doing them a favour ---------helllllooooo!!

not that you want to stay illegally ! but gee they make it hard ! and from what I can see .. if there was not money involved I doubt they'd give a toss about whom was their!

[soihok]

Looks like a lot of foreigners are either leaving or will have to get married, have a child or get a retirement visa.

condos will be selling for peanuts soon

Doubt this will have any affect on condo sales. I'm guessing, most of the people affected by this don't have the money to buy a condo.

As a member pointed out, the people likely to be affected will be renting those condos.

[sanuk711]

Just moving away from contemplating our own farrang navel for a little bit, it will be Interesting to see what will happen to some of the Boarder towns, Aranyaprathet has become a thriving little place with probably the best laid out & cheapest (counterfeit ) market in Thailand--most goods are only a third of the chatuchak price & the market itself has grown quite large. ...Last time I was there, more motels were being built....... Nong Kai has done a thriving trade mainly catering to backpackers, & lower end tourists (price wise I mean)--I guess the same on the southern border....I don't get down there much. Casino's built on the other side of small border crossings --like Koh Kong etc, when I first went there 15 years ago it was like going back into the 60s..... no cell phones would work, the ferry trip from there to sihanouk, was a knock out trip stopping at the other islands to off load supplies. Someone posted question--will the property price go down in BKK-Pattaya.... no but some other smaller towns maybe. Also defiantly the time to be in the market for a 2nd hand Van / People mover.

[Bellacissa]

Looks like a lot of foreigners are either leaving or will have to get married, have a child or get a retirement visa.

condos will be selling for peanuts soon

Doubt this will have any affect on condo sales. I'm guessing, most of the people affected by this don't have the money to buy a condo.

Maybe, but as someone said earlier, there might be a whole lot of rentals available. Either way, good for those of us looking for a place this fall.

[96tehtarp]

The article is silent about those that obtain a one year O-A from outside the country, and then make 90 day border runs. What about them? There are 100's or even thousands of foreigners that have homes here and live here full time that do that. Why? Maybe not married or not 50 or don't have 800,000 baht in the bank.

Will somebody with an OA still be allowed to do 90 border runs?

READ the original "No More Thai visa runs" article, AGAIN

Okay, I did. I says no more border runs, but on mentions the 60 day thing -- and people that don't have a proper visa. But it also doesn't say what a "proper isa" might be.. Silent about the 90 day runners who actually do have a "proper visa."

My question stands.

"Will somebody with an OA still be allowed to do 90 border runs?"

They don't need to because they are given an admitted-until stamp of one year upon entry.

[habfan]

I feel bad for the people that came to Thailand to start a life because they where told.... don't worry about proper visas or permits in Thailand, there's lots of ways around it and they are really lax on enforcement. However it seems to me that they are only enforcing rules and regulations that have always been in place.

With the proper visas and permits other than periodic visits to immigration ( UGH!) no worries.

[al007]

Fortunately for me, and thousands of others who are on Marriage or Retirement extensions, we are legal and can just sit back and watch the circus. But, as has been point out, there may come a time when they decided to change the rules on those as well, so we shouldn't feel smug and complacent.

I choose to be here on marriage extension, which is more onerous on paper work and requirements rather than retirement, because I am aware of the risks of change, and I just believe if further changes do come the marriage extension may remain, on human rights issues alone it would be difficult to get rid of it

But living here we need to be aware there are no guarentees, but many many benefits including tax treatement of world income!!

[PoorSucker]

Non-immigrant visa holders are not mentioned in the directive.

Sorry if I missed it, but where can we read this "directive" ?

Would be better to talk about an official document

rather than about some imprecise/inaccurate newspaper articles...

[hawker9000]

Looks like a lot of foreigners are either leaving or will have to get married, have a child or get a retirement visa.

condos will be selling for peanuts soon

I wonder about that. Why is the thai baht still so strong? Is there that much money coming into the markets here, at this time? With tourism down as much as it is, why is the economy so strong? Does anyone have any insight into this?

The tourist industry isn't that big a component of the overall Thai economy for one thing; and expectations for the low season are never that great anyway. I also think the baht is benefiting from the sense of stability that's set in since the military takeover. Most of the prior unrest and loud & protracted political wrangling has been muted, and it's more-or-less back to business as usual. Many may be unhappy with the military having taken charge, but the markets like the return to calm. Lastly, the baht has improved measurably, noticeably, but not really dramatically.

[soihok]

Times are changing.

Better for those that comply.

[NativeSon360]

I feel sorry for the guys who are going to get frozen out, esp the teachers. Thailand needs all the English teachers it can get, even if non-native, but whole WP is far too much work for too little reward. Will be interesting to see how this impacts demographics: finally us old farts will become even more attractive to the ladies who are in hunting mode. And this should really gut TAT estimates for number of tourists coming to Thailand. We could actually find out how many tourists do come here without the inflated numbers due to runners.

When jobs disappear for Thais in expat spots, classrooms suddenly lack teachers, and property values drop.... will Thailand then come up with reasonable work visa and long term resident standards?

FACT: The British were teaching English in Thailand b4 they were teaching in their own colonies (since 1852). Thais don't want to learn how to speak English. Now F.Y.I. ~ The AEP (ASEAN) is on the near horizon. The western "farang khao" party is drawing to an end. The Chinese (via Singapore) are running the show, and the Tamil Indians will become the new "native English speaking" farang school teachers in Thailand. Again, the party is over chaps. Time to go home. Thailand doesn't need "your" farang money anymore. Just the facts

[PattayaPhom]

Forget property prices slumping, I am gonna pick up a bargain minivan

[hansnl]

It is quite understandable the authorities want, and maybe need, to do something about the visaruns.

What is not understandable is that authorities give visa's and the holder of those visa's cannot enter the country.

Ik would have been better for the image of Thailand and more honest for the visarunners if at arrival they were warned "no more".

I am afraid this changing of the rules while the game is running will not be beneficial for tourism.

All this gives possible tourists the idea a visa for a longer stay in Thailand is not worth.

And go somewhere else.

Also, I guess the loss of investment and jobs for Thai people will be huge.

It would have been better, for all, if the whole thing was better thought over.

Edited July 15, 2014 by hansnl

[PoorSucker]

how would one stay in thailand full time on a one year Non O A?

O-A visa holder gets 1 year at each entry.

But also have to leave the country every 90 days, right? I never did it, but know a lot of people that have built houses here, live here full time, cross the border every 90 days and go somewhere like back home or to Singapore or somewhere to get a new O-A every year.

I

You are talking about non-O visa that gives you 90 days, non-OA gives 1 year.

[sumrit]

Wonder what will happen to all those foreigners that are married, have children, but don't have enough money to get a Non-Imm visa based on marriage.

Will Immigration start splitting up families?

You only need 40K/month for a visa based on marriage or a kid. Even an English teacher makes that.

If somebody is working they should have a work permit so won't need an extension based on marriage to stay.

If they don't have a work permit they're working illegally so won't be able to declare their 40K/month income to get that marriage extension.

A work permit has nothing to do with your visa or permission to stay. You need both if you are going to work in Thailand. If you are married to a Thai, you can get a non-O visa to visit family and then you need to apply for a work permit. These are two separate requirements. After the first non-O visa of 1 year, you can apply for an extension based on marriage and for this you need to show your income or cash depending on the location.

We're talking about people who would have to get an extension based on marriage order to remain in Thailand. The point I'm trying to make is yes, you need a non immigrant visa to obtain a work permit but you can then stay in Thailand because of that work permit, you don't have to get an extension based on marriage, or even be married, to stay.

But if somebody is working without a work permit they would have to get an extension based on marriage/dependents but won't be able to declare that income for the extension.

Of course, working legally or not, if you're married, getting an extension based on marriage is a more secure way of staying but, for people working legally, it isn't essential in order to remain here.

Edited July 15, 2014 by sumrit

[Songhua]

how would one stay in thailand full time on a one year Non O A?

O-A visa holder gets 1 year at each entry.

But also have to leave the country every 90 days, right? I never did it, but know a lot of people that have built houses here, live here full time, cross the border every 90 days and go somewhere like back home or to Singapore or somewhere to get a new O-A every year.

I

O-A holders don't have to cross the border every ninety days. An O-A entry allows a stay of one year. That's why some people prefer them.

You can't just hop over to Singapore to get another one either - an O-A can only be applied for and obtained in one's own country of citizenship or legal permanent residence.

Anyone on an O-A believing they need to leave the country every ninety days has been misinformed.

[BOS2BKK]

This strikes me as one of those "We'll know it when we see it" type scenarios. If you are scouring Thai visa trying to find the bare minimum stay across a border to re-enter...then guess what, you are one of the I/O people they don't want back.

Something tells me flip flops and a beer Chang tank top walking across the Bridge in Nong Kai will get you an I/O stamp alot faster than arriving on a Lufthansa flight from Germany. I bet the immigration desks at Swampy won't even have the I/O stamps on hand.

[Sortapundit]

Oh dear, not good news for many people I'm sure.

I think this is far too much too quickly. I guess if you are working illegally and using back to back tourist visas, well you're not paying tax and it is illegal so the writing was on the wall anyway. If you are however using back to back visas and living on your own money and not working this is unfortunate.

Maybe there will be a sudden increase in student visa applications, not sure, but one thing is for sure a lot of people are going home.

I'm in the second group. My partner and I are nomads, and we support ourselves quite comfortably on the royalties of several novels I published back when I could be bothered to work. We're perpetual tourists, and have no interest in anything other than a life of leisure in whatever warm and pleasant country will have us. Unfortunately, if you were to look at our passports the pattern of tourist visas could easily be mistaken for that of the folk who come here to work illegally.

In the three years we've been coming to Thailand we've usually stayed no more than two or three months at a time before taking a break elsewhere (we've probably only had one actual back-to-back visa in that time, and one same day in-out exemption, if memory serves). We were here for the first few months of 2013, spent two months in Mongolia before coming back to Bangkok for another month, then went to tour Europe for seven months before coming back here for the last three. In two weeks we head back to Mongolia for August, and our plan (which is looking shakier by the day as reports of problems emerge) is to return to Thailand at the start of September for a long stay. I'm guessing our best option would be to enrol in a Thai language course and get an ED visa, but as those will become much more popular as a way for illegal workers to stay in-country I'm concerned they'll start cracking down on those soon enough (and I don't really care to learn another language right now).

Of course it's the prerogative of Thailand to tighten up visa rules, but it's a shame people like me will probably get caught in the dragnet. I don't believe it's the intention of the authorities to oust non-working, cash-rich layabouts, but that will be the effect. I just wish I hadn't recently signed a 12 month lease on an apartment. It'd be much easier if we could bail out and spend a little time elsewhere without losing a hefty deposit.

P.S. I also wish the gloating TV fools on long term visas would give the schadenfreude a rest. The new state of affairs may get rid of a few undesirables, but it will also hurt a lot of honest people who are a positive force for the Thai economy.

a triple entry tourist visa should get you almost 270 days. is that long enough stay?

A triple entry would be more than enough, but my concern is whether it would be issued and honoured at the border. We've already spent three months in Thailand this year on a double entry tourist visa (we've used one entry and its extension - the second entry will be void by the time we return, unfortunately). A three month stay followed by a one month break before returning doesn't really fit the profile of a legitimate tourist, so I'd expect we'd have an issue either at a consulate or the border, especially in the near future while the guys at the border are a little more zealous than usual.

[rebelplatoon]

So....what's with the people that tried to come in from Malaysia with a 2 month Tourist visa and got sent back?!

How about genuine tourists that want to visit Luang Prabang, Angkor Vat and KL with Thailand as a base?

I think there are easier ways to stop the so called visa runners. If they had fully endorsed the 3 times and no

more rule this problem would not even exist. Now genuine tourists will suffer. Not good for the country.

[ILOOKFORWORK]

People are getting confused.

For me, this is further confirmation on the story Thai Visa posted yesterday - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/742573-tourist-visa-holders-denied-entry-to-thailand-and-left-stranded-in-malaysia/

It's a crackdown on people who abuse the visa exempt system and tourist visas, that's all.

This is aimed at people who get tourist visas or just nip in and out every few months and end up staying here for a couple of years or more.

The line from Immigration yesterday was "you are a tourist for 30 days, no more" which is right IMO.

You can't keep on getting tourist visas just so you can stay in Thailand, it isn't the correct visa for that.

Times are changing.

Will it be ED-Visas next?

Those that have a visa already and are inside the country, will they still be able to extend the visa 30 days at immigration? Or is this only for In/Out?