Thai editorial: Dissension is totally normal in a democracy that is alive

[webfact]

EDITORIAL
Dissension is totally normal in a democracy that is alive
The Nation

The junta should make a space for people to voice their views if it is to bring Thailand back to where it was

BANGKOK: -- Clearly, the Foreign Ministry has full authority to issue and revoke passports for one and all, but its recent move to terminate travel documents held by politicians, activists and academics has done nothing but damage Thailand's reputation.

Last month, the ministry cancelled the passports of several political figures and activists, including former Pheu Thai Party leader Charupong Ruangsuwan, Pheu Thai member Sunai Julpongsathorn, as well as members of the red-shirt movement, such as Jakrapob Penkair, Chatwadee Amornpat, Ekkapob Luara and Attachai Anuntamek.

The most recent case was that of academic Pavin Chachavalpongpun, whose passport was cancelled last week for defying the junta's summons. He now faces an arrest warrant.

There are several other activists and academics whose passports have been revoked without any public announcement or even acknowledgement of the passport holders.

The ministry said these passports were being terminated along the lines of law, as the individuals in question were either wanted in Thailand for allegedly defying the junta's summonses or faced arrest over lese majeste charges.

Articles 21 and 22 of the 2005 regulation on passport issuance indicate that the ministry has the authority to revoke the passport of those facing an arrest warrant, or those convicted or freed on bail but prohibited from leaving the country.

However, it is clear that the ministry does not always revoke passports held by such individuals. Passport termination mostly up to the ministry, which apparently considers each matter on a case by case basis.

Maybe the junta is revoking passports at this time because it wants people to stay at home?

Those politicians, activists and academics who stand to lose their passports have done nothing more than voice their opposition to the coup or the junta's undemocratic actions. All they want is for democracy to be restored.

Many elitists and intellectuals dislike Jakrapob, while Pavin is disliked for his harsh words against the country's politics. Yet, ironically, both Jakrapob and Pavin once worked at the Foreign Ministry.

But seriously, is voicing one's opposition to the state of affairs really such a crime? Yes, their words might hurt the feelings of some people, but they can't really hurt Thailand as a country. Besides voicing their opposition, the politicians, activists and academics have not actually done anything to harm the junta's stability.

The junta accused Jakrapob of collecting weapons to fight against the military. Now, it is difficult to believe that Jakrapob can actually find so many weapons, which makes one wonder about the junta's tactics.

Besides, terminating passports has not always helped bring dissidents back, but has instead ended up damaging Thailand's reputation. The Foreign Ministry first experienced this in 2009, when Abhisit Vejjajiva's government cancelled fugitive former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra's passport.

Thaksin was barely affected as he ended up being granted citizenship and travel documents by other countries. The Foreign Ministry then tried to pressure these countries into deporting the former PM, but it only ended up hurting its own reputation.

Also, it can be a bit strange when a person hunted by the Foreign Ministry ends up becoming a top official in the very same ministry in the future.

One must keep in mind that for as long as democracy is alive, voices of dissent will be heard. So, if the junta wants to create a sustainable democracy as it keeps saying it will, then it needs to create a space for dissidents to voice their views.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Dissension-is-totally-normal-in-a-democracy-that-i-30238477.html


-- The Nation 2014-07-15

[TimCM]

The issue here is the author makes the mistake that Thailand was ever a democracy. You can't have a democracy without free speech. The powers to be use these laws so they can cling to their way of life and will never change

[chainarong]

Dissent is the major part of democracy, heaven help if everyone agreed, with the introduction of social media this has made dissent even more so, anyone who cannot take criticism should not be in Politics or a public figure , remember Thailand , with democracy comes rules, so you need something to protect from abuse, victimisation and total brain dead people, there is nothing wrong with a good vigorous debate this is a big difference to debate by abuse, previously the government over used to courts on picky complaints that tied up the courts , Thai politicians are like most Asian politicians they can't take criticism, this you must overcome and don't over react. Me thinks you complain to much.

[ramrod711]

The junta should make a space for people to voice their views if it is to bring Thailand back to where it was

I don't see people wanting to go back to a situation where it isn't safe for them to express their views. If I can't express my displeasure with government without being bombed, shot or intimidated is that what people want to go back to? If government officials break laws and are controlled by a criminal in exile, is that a desirable situation? If Thaksin's cousin can issue a passport, then refuse to explain why, is that democracy? Without rule of law there is no democracy. The very first priority of government is to ensure the safety of the country and it's citizens, the way things were, the people were not safe and the country was under threat of secession of the north. The way things were is not good enough.

[pedro01]

Thailand pretty much bypassed dissent and went straight to hate speech and distortion.

The Nation was as guilty of stirring hatred with distortion as anyone.

If the children wont play nicely, take their toys away. This article shows they did not learn a thing yet.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[lostsoul49]

The issue here is the author makes the mistake that Thailand was ever a democracy. You can't have a democracy without free speech. The powers to be use these laws so they can cling to their way of life and will never change

There is not a democracy in place anyway... the biggest point they have missed, a Junta is not a democracy, and even before the Junta there was not even the slightest of semblance of a democracy here. So all this is just invalid claptrap.

Also, most passports are revoked as they are considered criminals on the run and just about any country would consider that measure to impede their movement.

Some are even wanted on conspiracy to commit terrorist acts etc....

I have no problem with that and any criticism is nothing less than meddling in a country's internal affairs.

Edited July 15, 2014 by lostsoul49

[Emster23]

democracy that is alive.... so, Thailand is DOA

Edited July 15, 2014 by metisdead
Oversize bold font reset to normal.

[Thailand]

"But seriously, is voicing one's opposition to the state of affairs really such a crime?"

Yes, currently it is.

[Docno]

The issue here is the author makes the mistake that Thailand was ever a democracy. You can't have a democracy without free speech. The powers to be use these laws so they can cling to their way of life and will never change

There is not a democracy in place anyway... the biggest point they have missed, a Junta is not a democracy, and even before the Junta there was not even the slightest of semblance of a democracy here. So all this is just invalid claptrap.

Also, most passports are revoked as they are considered criminals on the run and just about any country would consider that measure to impede their movement.

Some are even wanted on conspiracy to commit terrorist acts etc....

I have no problem with that and any criticism is nothing less than meddling in a country's internal affairs.

"the biggest point they have missed, a Junta is not a democracy, and even before the Junta there was not even the slightest of semblance of a democracy here. So all this is just invalid claptrap."

I think you have missed the point. The article is not claiming that there's a democracy in place now under the coup-makers (that would be silly) or even that Thailand has been a true democracy in the past. It's simply questioning the coup-makers' claim that their ultimate intent is to 'fix' Thailand's political system so that it can eventually become a functioning democracy (remember - that's how they justified the coup). The argument is that if your goal is really to create a democratic system that works, you can't do so by introducing draconian anti-free-speech measures as part of the (re-)construction process. At least, that's how I interpret it...

[jayboy]

Buyers remorse?

[sweatalot]

The junta should make a space for people to voice their views if it is to bring Thailand back to where it was

Who in their clear mind would want "to bring Thailand back to where it was" ? (shake head)

[tx22cb]

"Dissension is totally normal in a democracy that is alive"

Hello!?!

Does the Nation not know that there has been a military coup, martial law is in place, and that Democracy has been suspended?

And the Generals (and, indeed, this forum's Moderators) have stated several times that criticism of the Coup is not to be tolerated.

[ThailandNoob]

The junta should make a space for people to voice their views if it is to bring Thailand back to where it was

I don't see people wanting to go back to a situation where it isn't safe for them to express their views. If I can't express my displeasure with government without being bombed, shot or intimidated is that what people want to go back to? If government officials break laws and are controlled by a criminal in exile, is that a desirable situation? If Thaksin's cousin can issue a passport, then refuse to explain why, is that democracy? Without rule of law there is no democracy. The very first priority of government is to ensure the safety of the country and it's citizens, the way things were, the people were not safe and the country was under threat of secession of the north. The way things were is not good enough.

If you can`t express their displeasure with the government without going to polling stations with weapons to intimidate votes, without shooting people who move traffic cones, without kidnapping and torturing people, then you don`t deserve any safety.

You talk about the "threat of secession from the north". Do you really think that anyone would have been supporting this idea if they hadn`t been worried about their democratically elected leaders being removed by a coup? And now these fears have been proven to be well-founded. Do you really think that this has decreased the support for secession?

Edited July 15, 2014 by ThailandNoob

[trainman34014]

''Bring Thailand back to where it was ''. Nobody with half a brain would want that except those who wish to get their noses back in the trough. Seems to me the Nation are running short of things to write about.

What Thailand needs is 5-10 years of the kind of rule it's got now to ensure no characters currently involved with Politics are left alive or even remembered. If they wish to return the country to (what they call) democracy before then, the powers that now rule need to clear the board of the aforementioned characters without exception. No half measures or less are going to set this country straight; it's start from scratch or don't bother !

[Stan7444]

Dissent is the major part of democracy, heaven help if everyone agreed, with the introduction of social media this has made dissent even more so, anyone who cannot take criticism should not be in Politics or a public figure , remember Thailand , with democracy comes rules, so you need something to protect from abuse, victimisation and total brain dead people, there is nothing wrong with a good vigorous debate this is a big difference to debate by abuse, previously the government over used to courts on picky complaints that tied up the courts , Thai politicians are like most Asian politicians they can't take criticism, this you must overcome and don't over react. Me thinks you complain to much.

Me thinks this is due to a hierarchical society where there traditionally has been a social pecking order with village chiefs, warlords, princes, etc. Without a fundamental social change here, it will be difficult to accommodate any democracy. Where the lower class always must bow and respect a higher class to honor them, there can never be free speech with people expressing their opinions. When I attend any business meetings with Thais, everyone shuts up except the Big Boss.

When you have 100% of the Senate appointed by those in power and MPs are only allowed to run based upon select qualifications, as the EC is now proposing, there can be no true democracy, but democracy in name only. Strange how North Korea is called the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea and then there is the People’s Democratic Republic of Algeria. Who would truly call these countries democratic?

Edited July 15, 2014 by metisdead
Font reset to default forum font.

[heybruce]

''Bring Thailand back to where it was ''. Nobody with half a brain would want that except those who wish to get their noses back in the trough. Seems to me the Nation are running short of things to write about.

What Thailand needs is 5-10 years of the kind of rule it's got now to ensure no characters currently involved with Politics are left alive or even remembered. If they wish to return the country to (what they call) democracy before then, the powers that now rule need to clear the board of the aforementioned characters without exception. No half measures or less are going to set this country straight; it's start from scratch or don't bother !

Yeah, five to ten years of military rule, censorship, gatherings of five or more people to discuss politics banned, etc., that will prepare the country for democracy. I'm sure it will help their drive to increase tourism as well, who doesn't want a vacation under military rule?

[jayboy]

''Bring Thailand back to where it was ''. Nobody with half a brain would want that except those who wish to get their noses back in the trough. Seems to me the Nation are running short of things to write about.

What Thailand needs is 5-10 years of the kind of rule it's got now to ensure no characters currently involved with Politics are left alive or even remembered. If they wish to return the country to (what they call) democracy before then, the powers that now rule need to clear the board of the aforementioned characters without exception. No half measures or less are going to set this country straight; it's start from scratch or don't bother !

But who guards the guards?

In any event what's happening in Thailand is only tangentially about individuals.It's more about social change and the decline of deference.Those advantaged by the present system in broad terms have two choices.They can either use the pressure cooker approach and wait until their faces are blown off or take a more moderate approach to preserve most of their wealth and influence,

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[soalbundy]

''Bring Thailand back to where it was ''. Nobody with half a brain would want that except those who wish to get their noses back in the trough. Seems to me the Nation are running short of things to write about.

What Thailand needs is 5-10 years of the kind of rule it's got now to ensure no characters currently involved with Politics are left alive or even remembered. If they wish to return the country to (what they call) democracy before then, the powers that now rule need to clear the board of the aforementioned characters without exception. No half measures or less are going to set this country straight; it's start from scratch or don't bother !

Yeah, five to ten years of military rule, censorship, gatherings of five or more people to discuss politics banned, etc., that will prepare the country for democracy. I'm sure it will help their drive to increase tourism as well, who doesn't want a vacation under military rule?

Didn't stop tourists flooding to Spain under Franco's rule

Edited July 15, 2014 by soalbundy

[kimamey]

The issue here is the author makes the mistake that Thailand was ever a democracy. You can't have a democracy without free speech. The powers to be use these laws so they can cling to their way of life and will never change

There is not a democracy in place anyway... the biggest point they have missed, a Junta is not a democracy, and even before the Junta there was not even the slightest of semblance of a democracy here. So all this is just invalid claptrap.

Also, most passports are revoked as they are considered criminals on the run and just about any country would consider that measure to impede their movement.

Some are even wanted on conspiracy to commit terrorist acts etc....

I have no problem with that and any criticism is nothing less than meddling in a country's internal affairs.

"the biggest point they have missed, a Junta is not a democracy, and even before the Junta there was not even the slightest of semblance of a democracy here. So all this is just invalid claptrap."

I think you have missed the point. The article is not claiming that there's a democracy in place now under the coup-makers (that would be silly) or even that Thailand has been a true democracy in the past. It's simply questioning the coup-makers' claim that their ultimate intent is to 'fix' Thailand's political system so that it can eventually become a functioning democracy (remember - that's how they justified the coup). The argument is that if your goal is really to create a democratic system that works, you can't do so by introducing draconian anti-free-speech measures as part of the (re-)construction process. At least, that's how I interpret it...

The military seem to be doing themselves no favours by stopping free speech. In general (sorry for the pun) they appear to be doing a good job but unless someone is threatening violence then they would be better off letting people voice their opinions.

i don't know much about the people mentioned but the only reason I can think of for taking their passports is if they are considered at risk fleeing alleged criminal offences.

Thaksin's passport is not really the same as he was convicted of an offence.

[harrry]

If the person has a warrant to appear and court it is quite reasonable to cancel his passport until he appears.

[Chang_paarp]

I wonder if they have heard of this quote from Voltaire.

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.

Voltaire

It takes some maturity to understand, let alone accept, the sentiment expressed here.

[JAG]

I suspect that if by some miracle of time travel M. Voltaire had been alive and in Thailand these last few months he would have been amongst the first tranche to have been summoned in front of the Junta, banged up for a week or so, and then released if he signed a form agreeing not to speak out!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[heybruce]

''Bring Thailand back to where it was ''. Nobody with half a brain would want that except those who wish to get their noses back in the trough. Seems to me the Nation are running short of things to write about.

What Thailand needs is 5-10 years of the kind of rule it's got now to ensure no characters currently involved with Politics are left alive or even remembered. If they wish to return the country to (what they call) democracy before then, the powers that now rule need to clear the board of the aforementioned characters without exception. No half measures or less are going to set this country straight; it's start from scratch or don't bother !

But who guards the guards?

In any event what's happening in Thailand is only tangentially about individuals.It's more about social change and the decline of deference.Those advantaged by the present system in broad terms have two choices.They can either use the pressure cooker approach and wait until their faces are blown off or take a more moderate approach to preserve most of their wealth and influence,

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

I agree, but if you don't mind please allow me to translate this for those who can't handle abstract ideas and big words very well:

This isn't your daddy's Thailand. Thai people today are much better informed about the outside world than they ever have been. Because of this they are less inclined to conform to tradition and be unquestioningly obedient in the presence of authority figures. This scares the h**l out of some people. People afraid of the future are in a desperate battle to return to the past. They may have short-lived successes in this battle, but ultimately, in the not too distant future, they will fail.

Your pressure cooker analogy is correct; the longer the people with guns and power successfully fight the natural evolution of society, the more unpleasant things will be when change can no longer be stopped.

As an aside, that is a brilliant and exceptionally pertinent quote by Voltaire.

Edited July 15, 2014 by heybruce