MH17: Malaysia Airlines Plane Shot Down Near Ukraine Border

[MJCM]

Official passenger list posted on the MAS site

http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/content/dam/malaysia-airlines/mas/PDF/MH17/MH17%20PAX%20AND%20CREW%20MANIFEST.pdf

Sent from my iPad so Please excuse any typos

[zydeco]

The Russians are looting the bodies??? Pure animals.

[MJCM]

The Russians are looting the bodies??? Pure animals.

It seems indeed that there is looting going on

http://www.thewire.com/global/2014/07/flight-mh17-crash-site-has-been-heavily-looted/374707/

A good but macabre point on that site

Also the credit cards of the Victims. Currently They might as well TRY to use Them in Ukraine or Pass Them on to Russia. My humble Request to the Relatives of the Victims to Freeze Their credit cards, so That They will not loose Their assets to Terrorists!"

Edited July 19, 2014 by MJCM

[GentlemanJim]

Call me superstitious but I will avoid booking a ticket with Malaysian after these tragic accidents.

I'm sure that they are just as safe to fly with as any other airliner, but I will think different about Malaysia airlines from now on...

Your choice is your choice, but these were not accidents and superstition has no part to play in them.

I have flown first class and business with Singapore, BA, Etihad, Emirates, Qatar, Thai, Malaysian and others and whilst the condition/standard of the cabin was down the list in that their aircraft needed an upgrade/refit, the service on Malaysian was the best I have ever encountered anywhere. I have to go to LHR next month and have just booked with MAS in the only show of moral support for the company I can offer them. Until 6 months ago they were statistically one of the safest airlines in the World. Each to their own

LHR via KL? Must be good discount fare

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I am sure you can check prices on-line. It is a reasonable price for the class I have booked and is no trouble to you and only three extra hours traveling to me and I will be well taken care of, so no worries. If I were doing it to be the total winner then it wouldn't be a show of moral support would it. I have good friends in the airline and they deserve better than the s**t they have had for 4 months. Thank for your concern anyway.

[MJCM]

It seems indeed that there is looting going on

http://www.thewire.com/global/2014/07/flight-mh17-crash-site-has-been-heavily-looted/374707/

A good but macabre point on that site

Also the credit cards of the Victims. Currently They might as well TRY to use Them in Ukraine or Pass Them on to Russia. My humble Request to the Relatives of the Victims to Freeze Their credit cards, so That They will not loose Their assets to Terrorists!"

Re: The last comment, It seems that the Dutch Banks are already on it, and are taking preventive measures and monitoring the situation of the (possible stolen) Credit Cards and ATM cards.

Will post a link with Translation later Today.

I just hope that the Banks of other Nations involved in this, also take action to prevent abuse.

Edit: for people who want confirmation NOW, there is also a article about this on the website we are not allowed to link to.

Sent from my iPad so Please excuse any typos

Edited July 19, 2014 by MJCM

[balo]

Yes looting has been going on , these people are like cruel animals. If they see anything of value they will just take it,

[MJCM]

The looting is the bonus for them, I think their real purpose is to destroy evidence.

Sent from my iPad so Please excuse any typos

[neverdie]

BBC were reporting today that the OSEC investigation team were not being given access to the site. Can the UN send in a force to ensure they have access ?

Apparently bodies on the ground & I hope that reports of bodies being stolen & looted are wrong

One day ,,,,,,,,,,,,,

being reported in Australian media as well. Russia won't allow anyone in until they have finished their investigation even tho it is not Russian soil. Australian families want the bodies of their loved ones removed but not possible until Russia give the o.k

Animals !

It's one thing to supply a rifle to a rebel to support the killing of innocents, it's another to supply a weapon of MASS DESTRUCTION like BUK (yep, that's what I'm calling it) to a bunch of morons that are acting like a bunch of monkeys and now this.

GentlemanJim,

Putins hands are very bloodied, he's a vile creature & will get his own, my only sad feeling is unfortunately I will never personally get to tap dance on his grave, nor the graves of the indispicable piles of crap that slaughtered all the innocent victims.

These animals slaughtered unaware and unarmed civilians, may they rot in hell, I hope their loved ones & their children are burned at the stake and they suffer 10,000 times more pain than they have inflicted on both the victims of MH17 & any other person they've needlessly slaughtered in this despicable land grab.

I hope these rock apes rot in hell, give back our dead people you worthless gutless miserable priks !

[Cambodger]

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Yes looting has been going on , these people are like cruel animals. If they see anything of value they will just take it,

This would happen in any country in the world if a crash site was left unprotected, as horrible it is, it's not exclusive to any race or nationality and is as old as time immemorial.

Lockerbie springs to mind, plus every war in history and ongoing soldiers have looted and stolen from each other and innocent civilians. The UK is full of war trophies and collectibles, jewellery etc from Germany and mainland Europe pre 1945, Saddam era Iraqi memorabilia that regularly goes on ebay, where do you think it all came from?

We need to remember when we're sat in our ivory towers that Ukraine was already a poor country and now the people in that area are stuck in or fighting a civil war with a very uncertain future ahead, survival instincts will surely be what is leading most peoples judgment.

I'm guessing you've never been in that position before?

To call them 'animals' is wrong and says as much about you as the looting does about them.

[MJP]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Yes looting has been going on , these people are like cruel animals. If they see anything of value they will just take it,

This would happen in any country in the world if a crash site was left unprotected, as horrible it is, it's not exclusive to any race or nationality and is as old as time immemorial.

Lockerbie springs to mind, plus every war in history and ongoing soldiers have looted and stolen from each other and innocent civilians. The UK is full of war trophies and collectibles, jewellery etc from Germany and mainland Europe pre 1945, Saddam era Iraqi memorabilia that regularly goes on ebay, where do you think it all came from?

We need to remember when we're sat in our ivory towers that Ukraine was already a poor country and now the people in that area are stuck in or fighting a civil war with a very uncertain future ahead, survival instincts will surely be what is leading most peoples judgment.

I'm guessing you've never been in that position before?

To call them 'animals' is wrong and says as much about you as the looting does about them.

Awful as it is, I agree.

[Scott]

Off-topic and troll posts removed.

[Chicog]

Armed Separatists are blocking investigators from the site. Putin could fix this easily.

The fact the he doesn't continues to fill people, myself included, with revulsion.

I hope he gets his.

[harrry]

Armed Separatists are blocking investigators from the site. Putin could fix this easily.

The fact the he doesn't continues to fill people, myself included, with revulsion.

I hope he gets his.

In order to do so he would have to actually invade Ukraine as in order to do so he would have to invade Ukraine as the area is according to everyone except those that live there part of the Ukrainian Replublic.. So far the Russians have at least technically kept out of the country....do you really want to escalate that?

Edited July 20, 2014 by harrry

[In Search of Space]

Not necessarily, the separatists would allow international or Ukrainian investigators access if Putin instructed them to do so

One day ,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[MJCM]

Good point, but just guessing also, maybe it was a Russian plane

Sent from my iPad so Please excuse any typos

[laolover88]

http://www.smh.com.au/business/aviation/ukraine-responsible-for-airspace-safety-iata-20140720-zuzmp.html

This, of course is like MH370, the place to look:http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/543733-mh17-down-near-donetsk-27.html

[craigt3365]

A few posts with links to articles claiming unsubstantiated facts have been removed from view, along with replies from several members. Please do not post articles like this again. Show some respect for the deceased and their relatives.

Apologies to the members questioning the veracity of the articles.

[Cambodger]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Post it again!!
A few facts, some evidence and a bit of patient research would not go amiss rather than gobble up Washington hysteria!

Washington is well known for lying for political goals. Here is a terrific article that puts the story into context -

http://rt.com/op-edge/174088-was-it-putin-missile/

Understand 100%, but then why are Russia and the separatist preventing access to the site for (independent) investigators. If they have really nothing to hide and someone else is responsible, either Ukraine, a terrorist on board, NSA, Walt Disney etc etc etc then it would in their own interest to have those investigators come and check.




Sent from my iPad so Please excuse any typos

You do know there is a civil war going on there right now?

So i guess security might be a concern to them, they're hardly likely to just open a corridor from Kiev into the middle of their territory.

The reality is these people are willing to kill or be killed fighting for what they believe in so it goes without saying the bigger picture of the war will be of more importance to them, than 300 already dead foreigners and their grieving families.

There's no love lost between the separatists and the EU/ US.

[Basil B]

The 21st century is full of technological paradoxes.

We have the radar and communications technology to differentiate and identify between the imprint of a boeing 777 and a fighter/military plane.

We have SAM's that can reach 72,000 ft.

Yet we shoot down civilian planes.

Cause? Stupid humans.

Not surprised if we are the cause of our own extinction.

Makes you want to pound your head against the wall in sheer frustration at the utterly senseless loss of life that should never have happened in this day and age.

I wonder how much the SAM missile cost, I understand a Patriot Missile costs $2-3 million USD.

Flight MH17 a Boeing 777 reg 9M-MRD was equipped with ADS-B and a $500 dollar box of tricks would have given them the low down on this flight.

[dutchisaan]

Post it again!!

A few facts, some evidence and a bit of patient research would not go amiss rather than gobble up Washington hysteria!

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/CEN-01-190714.html

http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/breaking-part-ii-evidence-continues-to-emerge-mh17-is-a-false-flag-operation/

If surface-to-air missiles create round holes in the fuselage of the target, and air-air missiles create arrow-shaped forms, then why does the MH 17 have arrow-shaped forms in the fuselage?

Why does the downed aircraft show cladding damage characteristic with pin and shrapnel warheads (air-to-air systems), much more characteristic of R-27 TOPOR or R-73 missiles used on the Ukraine military MIG-29 and SU-27 aircraft?

Wow!!!

This is amazing, you know more about this than everybody else! At the time I'm writing this, there are specialist on the way to this area, to start their investigation.

But hey, send them back, you have all the answers.

You gave a few links for your story, but where are the pictures to prove what you are saying?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[MJCM]

Post it again!!

A few facts, some evidence and a bit of patient research would not go amiss rather than gobble up Washington hysteria!

Washington is well known for lying for political goals. Here is a terrific article that puts the story into context -

http://rt.com/op-edge/174088-was-it-putin-missile/

Understand 100%, but then why are Russia and the separatist preventing access to the site for (independent) investigators. If they have really nothing to hide and someone else is responsible, either Ukraine, a terrorist on board, NSA, Walt Disney etc etc etc then it would in their own interest to have those investigators come and check.

Sent from my iPad so Please excuse any typos

You do know there is a civil war going on there right now?

So i guess security might be a concern to them, they're hardly likely to just open a corridor from Kiev into the middle of their territory.

The reality is these people are willing to kill or be killed fighting for what they believe in so it goes without saying the bigger picture of the war will be of more importance to them, than 300 already dead foreigners and their grieving families.

There's no love lost between the separatists and the EU/ US.

Of course, but then why is it the ovse members can only look at some part of the crash site, but not at other parts? Or does this area fall under the influence of 2 different parties ?

Sent from my iPad so Please excuse any typos

Edited July 20, 2014 by MJCM

[Chicog]

You do know there is a civil war going on there right now?

So i guess security might be a concern to them, they're hardly likely to just open a corridor from Kiev into the middle of their territory.

The reality is these people are willing to kill or be killed fighting for what they believe in so it goes without saying the bigger picture of the war will be of more importance to them, than 300 already dead foreigners and their grieving families.

There's no love lost between the separatists and the EU/ US.

Alternative (and more probable) scenario:

They want time to sanitise the crime scene and probably try and pin the act on the Ukranians.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Chicog

[Cambodger]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

You do know there is a civil war going on there right now?

So i guess security might be a concern to them, they're hardly likely to just open a corridor from Kiev into the middle of their territory.

The reality is these people are willing to kill or be killed fighting for what they believe in so it goes without saying the bigger picture of the war will be of more importance to them, than 300 already dead foreigners and their grieving families.

There's no love lost between the separatists and the EU/ US.

Alternative (and more probable) scenario:

They want time to sanitise the crime scene and probably try and pin the act on the Ukranians.

There was plenty of media filming and other official looking people around the site in the footage i saw yesterday.

[craigt3365]

This isn't good:

http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-rebels-took-away-plane-crash-bodies-081559316--finance.html

Ukraine: Rebels took away all plane crash bodies

[Cambodger]

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This isn't good:

http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-rebels-took-away-plane-crash-bodies-081559316--finance.html

Ukraine: Rebels took away all plane crash bodies

Yes they started yesterday photographing them, bagging them and marking the site they were found before moving them to storage.

All observed by the OSCE and the media who have been at the site since yesterday.

What do you want them to do leave them out there rotting in the 30c sun for another day?

Quit it with the hyperbole.

[craigt3365]

I think you are missing the point. Crash/airline officials are not removing the bodies. The rebels are. Per the article:

Ukrainian spokeswoman Nataliya Bystro said Sunday that emergency workers have been working under duress and were forced to give the bodies to the armed rebels. She said the government has no idea where the bodies were taken to.

Not hyperbole, just facts. Only crash site officials should be dealing with this. Not untrained rebels.

[Chicog]

Any bodies that might have traces of explosive and residue such as shrapnel that narrow down the exact weapon used will be cleaned before being returned.

Doesn't surprise me one bit.

[Cambodger]

I think you are missing the point. Crash/airline officials are not removing the bodies. The rebels are. Per the article:

Ukrainian spokeswoman Nataliya Bystro said Sunday that emergency workers have been working under duress and were forced to give the bodies to the armed rebels. She said the government has no idea where the bodies were taken to.

Not hyperbole, just facts. Only crash site officials should be dealing with this. Not untrained rebels.

Well this one went down in a active war zone so you can forget about it being a normal investigation...

Unfortunately I doubt the definitive truth surrounding this disaster will ever be uncovered.

[Cambodger]

Any bodies that might have traces of explosive and residue such as shrapnel that narrow down the exact weapon used will be cleaned before being returned.

Doesn't surprise me one bit.

This isn't some hollywood movie.

[Cambodger]

http://youtu.be/zvtxZMhyDcY

Flight recorder/ black box has been found...