Visa Waiver Run denied today at Ranong

[John1thru10]

Here it is:

IF you are stopped and checked during that final 3 day period, then you would automatically go to (not exactly 'prison', but) immigration detention. The rule is, if you were stopped and checked, that would be automatic. But, it is also very (very) unlikely if you are in a taxi en route to the airport in BKK.

IF... you kept your heads down, don't do anything to draw attention, took a taxi to the airport, and paid the fines there, then it is VERY UNLIKELY that you will have problems.

Do NOT take the bus or public transport within that 3 days, and don't - obviously - get in a fight with someone, or anything like that.

You won't be blacklisted for a 3 day overstay. That rule will only apply to people with overstays of 90 days or more.

Let's be honest about something here, you're Germans. You are not from a country they are particularly angry right now. You are a family over a short period of time (3 days over or not). That's not what they are looking to give the most trouble to. If you were Russian, or African, or a single man...it might be very different.

Follow these things, and you'll be ok. Don't let these guys scare you (they enjoy doing that here).

[djhotsox]

Do you intend to return to Thailand any time in the near future? Or once you return to Germany you do not plan on coming back?

If that is the case I would suggest saving yourself the headache of a trip to immigration and just stay put or go somewhere secluded like Koh Lipe for the rest of your time in Thailand, go to the airport the day of your flight, pay 2 adult overstay fines of 5000 baht each = 10,000 baht and be on your way home.

It is very unlikely that you will get arrested and put in jail, you would have to be very unlucky.

The other options of visa runs, flights (with a one year old) and worry of travel in/out just don't make it worth the money saved IMHO.

Stay and pay the entire fine when you leave.

[djhotsox]

I personally think you guys are crazy. Have you ever experienced travel with a one year old? I vote for stay put and enjoy your last ten days here. Travelling with an infant changes the game for them. I don't suggest it. Stay put.

[SiggiCM]

There's no fine for children under seven years of age I believe. Also it's very unlikely that you will get stopped and jailed on the last couple of days of your holiday so just go ahead and do the extension and make the best of the time you have left.

omg, all the rumors here, dont write things what are not true, kids under 15 years dont get charged for overstay

[Kathiejs]

I don't see how just going to Malaysia and flying back in is going to help, since the OP is still going to be applying for a 3rd consecutive visa waiver, which is precisely what is no longer allowed. Either he needs to get a visa while in Malaysia (KL or Penang), or get the extension and do the 3 day overstay - the announcement said that only those who overstayed > 90 days would be blacklisted, and even then only for a year unless they overstay > 1 year. Just don't get blind drunk or drive a rented vehicle in your last 3 days and your chances of being picked up by the police are very remote.

[arunsakda]

I thought the idea was to deny visa-runs to those whom the immigration officer suspects of working illegally in Thailand.

Does the OP sound like a genuine tourist or illegal worker?

The words baby and bathwater come to mind.

Genuine tourists wont be effected.. Oil workers on rotation are not out / ins.. etc etc..

I have been saying how this would work out since it was first announced.. But the hope of some posters that there would be sense is obviously missplaced.

2 Germans and a baby on an OBVIOUS tour of SE Asia!

This is bad.

Leave early,

Change your flight,

Get an extension,

Whatever you do

Do NOT overstay

Edited July 18, 2014 by arunsakda

[Crazy88]

this forum is very amusing sometimes

[denby45]

I would suggest it's about time for the newspapers in UK, US, Sweden, Germany...etc start reporting on these unfair incidents. I am sure they would soon get their act together.

They are supposed to be trying to stop people living in Thailand on incorrect visa's or even working illegally.

They have simply lost the plot

Den

[gray42]

This is really sad. Sorry your family's holiday has ended up with you wondering if you should risk going to jail when you've done nothing wrong. That's horrible and really upsets me.

Based on stories and my own experience, nothing will happen to you if you overstay except paying the fine, but with the current and future rules they might not let you back in if you decide to come here again. I would think going to a neighboring country and flying into Bangkok before your next flight would be the best way to go.

Edited July 18, 2014 by gray42

[Sena Dave]

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This is really sad. Sorry your family's holiday has ended up with you wondering if you should risk going to jail just to finish your holiday. That's horrible and really upsets me.

Based on stories and my own experience, nothing will happen to you if you overstay except paying the fine, but with the current and future rules they might not let you back in if you decide to come here again. I would think going to a neighboring country and flying into Bangkok before your next flight would be the best way to go.

Would they want to come back in after experiencing Immigration's "Discretion"

[gray42]

This is really sad. Sorry your family's holiday has ended up with you wondering if you should risk going to jail just to finish your holiday. That's horrible and really upsets me.

Based on stories and my own experience, nothing will happen to you if you overstay except paying the fine, but with the current and future rules they might not let you back in if you decide to come here again. I would think going to a neighboring country and flying into Bangkok before your next flight would be the best way to go.

Would they want to come back in after experiencing Immigration's "Discretion"

If I came to Thailand on holiday and experienced this I wouldn't be coming back. That would show me it's not a friendly country for tourists.

Edited July 18, 2014 by gray42

[notmyself]

This is really sad. Sorry your family's holiday has ended up with you wondering if you should risk going to jail when you've done nothing wrong. That's horrible and really upsets me.

Based on stories and my own experience, nothing will happen to you if you overstay except paying the fine, but with the current and future rules they might not let you back in if you decide to come here again. I would think going to a neighboring country and flying into Bangkok before your next flight would be the best way to go.

As mentioned earlier, which low cost carriers (local) fly into Swampy rather than DM where you would need to get a visa exempt entry to change airports. I know Bangkok airways use Swampy but who else?

[gray42]

This is really sad. Sorry your family's holiday has ended up with you wondering if you should risk going to jail when you've done nothing wrong. That's horrible and really upsets me.

Based on stories and my own experience, nothing will happen to you if you overstay except paying the fine, but with the current and future rules they might not let you back in if you decide to come here again. I would think going to a neighboring country and flying into Bangkok before your next flight would be the best way to go.

As mentioned earlier, which low cost carriers (local) fly into Swampy rather than DM where you would need to get a visa exempt entry to change airports. I know Bangkok airways use Swampy but who else?

That's a good point. Didn't think about that. They do seem to all fly into and out of DM. Sorry, but I don't know. I only travel by land these days.

[ARGUSEYE]

This is really sad. Sorry your family's holiday has ended up with you wondering if you should risk going to jail when you've done nothing wrong. That's horrible and really upsets me.

Based on stories and my own experience, nothing will happen to you if you overstay except paying the fine, but with the current and future rules they might not let you back in if you decide to come here again. I would think going to a neighboring country and flying into Bangkok before your next flight would be the best way to go.

As mentioned earlier, which low cost carriers (local) fly into Swampy rather than DM where you would need to get a visa exempt entry to change airports. I know Bangkok airways use Swampy but who else?

That's a good point. Didn't think about that. They do seem to all fly into and out of DM. Sorry, but I don't know. I only travel by land these days.

... Even if you fly in and out of Swampy... Say in on Bkk Air and out on Lufthansa... You would have to go through immigration if you bought the first ticket last week in Kl and the second three months ago in Germany..

Immigration, claim luggage, then check in for the plane home.

All you have at immigration is a computer print out of your ongoing flight reservation. That is NOT a real legal document, anybody can produce that with photo shop.

I know this is of no help for the OPs, but it highlights the stupidity of this immigration crack down.There must be many thousands of tourists every year who just want to return to BKK from places like Angkor/Cambodia or Burma JUST FOR THEIR FLIGHT HOME.

.... And now they run a risk of being turned back and miss the plane??

[Franky Bear]

This is really sad. Sorry your family's holiday has ended up with you wondering if you should risk going to jail when you've done nothing wrong. That's horrible and really upsets me.

Based on stories and my own experience, nothing will happen to you if you overstay except paying the fine, but with the current and future rules they might not let you back in if you decide to come here again. I would think going to a neighboring country and flying into Bangkok before your next flight would be the best way to go.

As mentioned earlier, which low cost carriers (local) fly into Swampy rather than DM where you would need to get a visa exempt entry to change airports. I know Bangkok airways use Swampy but who else?

That's a good point. Didn't think about that. They do seem to all fly into and out of DM. Sorry, but I don't know. I only travel by land these days.

... Even if you fly in and out of Swampy... Say in on Bkk Air and out on Lufthansa... You would have to go through immigration if you bought the first ticket last week in Kl and the second three months ago in Germany..

Immigration, claim luggage, then check in for the plane home.

All you have at immigration is a computer print out of your ongoing flight reservation. That is NOT a real legal document, anybody can produce that with photo shop.

I know this is of no help for the OPs, but it highlights the stupidity of this immigration crack down.There must be many thousands of tourists every year who just want to return to BKK from places like Angkor/Cambodia or Burma JUST FOR THEIR FLIGHT HOME.

.... And now they run a risk of being turned back and miss the plane??

Very good point

[matt111]

This is really sad. Sorry your family's holiday has ended up with you wondering if you should risk going to jail just to finish your holiday. That's horrible and really upsets me.

Based on stories and my own experience, nothing will happen to you if you overstay except paying the fine, but with the current and future rules they might not let you back in if you decide to come here again. I would think going to a neighboring country and flying into Bangkok before your next flight would be the best way to go.

Would they want to come back in after experiencing Immigration's "Discretion"

If I came to Thailand on holiday and experienced this I wouldn't be coming back. That would show me it's not a friendly country for tourists.

Indeed. When it comes to making life harder it seems the immigration officers have all the flexibility in the world (exercising their discretion based on the ambiguity in the rules if you will). If only their was some balance "On this occasion, as I can see you travelling with a young kid and clearly your only intent is extending your holiday, I'll make an exception and call my colleague on the entrance TH side and ensure you have free passage, however understand this isnt normally allowed and I am making an exception, enjoy the land of smiles" ..cue customary bitterness "its their country, their rules", respect blah blah

Edited July 18, 2014 by matt111

[Sena Dave]

I thought the strict enforcement of the rules was to stop people working in Thailand illegally , thats what they said to start with, so I don't see in the Ops case grounds for refusal of entry. It makes no sense

I saw a post mentioning "Grey areas" grey areas have Loopholes than can be exploited for money

[bandos2000]

seems they are enforcing the "your a tourist for 30 days thing" turning into a right cluster <deleted>

[Alwyn]

Go to Langkawi for a week or two and fly back home from KL. It's nicer and cleaner than the Thai islands and you'll love it!

[Paul888]

I think that ubonjoe hit the nail on the head with the wrong border comment.

I am sure that another border would adopt a more reasonable approach if the OP presented his itinerary etc to them.

That would be my first suggestion. Maybe go to the local immigration office first and get them to ok it in principle ideally by writing something down for you.

If still not possible, I would rather go home early than overstay. The chances of being caught are slim, but they exist and I wouldn't risk it with a young baby.

[RandomSand]

I'll certainly tell my family not to bother visiting Thailand this year.

Thank you "ThaiVisa"

[ukrules]

I thought the idea was to deny visa-runs to those whom the immigration officer suspects of working illegally in Thailand.

Does the OP sound like a genuine tourist or illegal worker?

The words baby and bathwater come to mind.

The truth of the intent behind these recent measures is slowly being revealed and it has nothing to do with illegal workers.

[Thai at Heart]

This is getting ludicrous. The Thais have always wanted to be a hub for something. When they finally got to be one, they are getting rid of it .

[englishoak]

Unbelievable to advise people to break the law and risk a detention pen... with a 1 year old... the risk is irrelevent and the advise from an immigration officer is absolutely disgusting

Hub of cluster <deleted>

Land of confusion.

[sheenaramone]

Hello again and thanks for all the comments and replies. Sorry, that I didnt replyed yesterday, we were quite busy.

After a night and a morning full of thoughts, we decided to go to the immigration in Phuket Patpong (we are now in Khao Lak) and ask them for advice.

I told them, we changed our plans and left Cambodia earlier and counted wrong, so now we have a problem, as we would be 10 days too long in the country and what should we do? The officer checked our passports and said, we should leave the country and just come back, it is no Problem. I told him, that we tried that in ranong, but the officer there said, that we can go out but cannot come back. And we are afraid if we go to Malaysia f.e., that this will happen again.

The officer in Phuket looked confused (maybe he was surprised how the officer in Ranong reacted) and talked to the other one next to him (maybe the boss, as he was older) and the older one said, you get an extension for 7 days and then you go to the immigration in BKK and pay fine for overstaying 2 days. Its not a problem, its just 2 days.

So we did that and have now an extension until 29th. On the 1st august in the morning we will fly back to Germany. In the days between we try not to fight with anybody, or anything else. As the officers were quite relaxed, we are not afraid anymore.

Our baby didnt get an extension, they said, its free and doenst need. Its no problem.

Concering your comments: We visitied malaysia twice before, but staying there now more than 5 days its not an option. We have here in Thailand already booked the last hotel and flights, all in all we would lose about 400€ plus the new extra flights, we would need. So we would just have done the extreme version, if there wouldnt be any other option. But still we woukd have the same problem, maybe the officer at the BKK wouldnt let us in.

We travelled Thailand many times before and will return, for sure. Not in the next 2 years, but maybe when we saved enough money. I am angry, that the new immigration rules are so, that every officer can interpret them, like he wants. And if you have bad luck, then you cannot go in. And I think Ranong is one of the worse borders, probaply. The officer there didnt really ask for our travel plans, he asked "where are you staying" and I told him the hotel, where we slept that night. Then he asked, where we are going and I saiid Khao Lak and Krabi, then Bangkok. He never asked for a hotel or anything. I had every booking confirmed wth me, also the car rental papers and the flight papers. It didnt interested him at all.

Also I am angry on myself, that I didnt got an tourist visa. But we planned our journey, that we wouldnt need it. Next time I will do that different.

But thank you all, I hope everything is going to be fine and if not, I will write again from the prison ....

[John1thru10]

This is really sad. Sorry your family's holiday has ended up with you wondering if you should risk going to jail just to finish your holiday. That's horrible and really upsets me.

Based on stories and my own experience, nothing will happen to you if you overstay except paying the fine, but with the current and future rules they might not let you back in if you decide to come here again. I would think going to a neighboring country and flying into Bangkok before your next flight would be the best way to go.

Would they want to come back in after experiencing Immigration's "Discretion"

If I came to Thailand on holiday and experienced this I wouldn't be coming back. That would show me it's not a friendly country for tourists.

Indeed. When it comes to making life harder it seems the immigration officers have all the flexibility in the world (exercising their discretion based on the ambiguity in the rules if you will). If only their was some balance "On this occasion, as I can see you travelling with a young kid and clearly your only intent is extending your holiday, I'll make an exception and call my colleague on the entrance TH side and ensure you have free passage, however understand this isnt normally allowed and I am making an exception, enjoy the land of smiles" ..cue customary bitterness "its their country, their rules", respect blah blah

I agree, and I suspect in reality - especially in the case the OP describes, 99.9% of agents would be fine with it. Only the most extreme case would they make a federal case about a 3 day overstay for a visiting family with an outbound ticket home in the process of going home at the end of their vacation. And it's a shame that so many people here are advising them to go through the longest, most troublesome, most expensive option imaginable. It's really not that big a deal at all!

Edited July 20, 2014 by John1thru10

[John1thru10]

I thought the idea was to deny visa-runs to those whom the immigration officer suspects of working illegally in Thailand.

Does the OP sound like a genuine tourist or illegal worker?

The words baby and bathwater come to mind.

The truth of the intent behind these recent measures is slowly being revealed and it has nothing to do with illegal workers.

Very true. It's also a shame that the board is inhabited with regulars who want to support the false impression by routinely accusing others of criminality, etc. There is such a big difference between "At this time, I would advise...", and "You're a criminal and rules are rules!". The latter seeks to shame and humiliate, and not provide useful solutions and understanding. Other than that contingent, this board is such a valuable source of information that without one would be lost in Thailand at this time.

[thairookie]

From what I understand, Thailand is mostly trying to prevent people from using tourist visas to come here and work. So this is not how the VISA rules are supposed to be applied. The OP clearly had a returning ticket, he was traveling with a child and they had a hotel so he had all the proof he needed that he WAS a tourist. The OP should have been fine in what he was trying to do to so they could stay legally. However, this is now the kind of thing that will happen because Thailand cannot manage to come up with CLEAR guidelines for all border check-points to follow.

This is an excellent post. I believe many, including immigration officers, may not understand the purpose of the new regulations.

Some, like a few posters in TVF, have even gone further, deliberately or otherwise, to equate visa runners with illegal workers.

[John1thru10]

This is getting ludicrous. The Thais have always wanted to be a hub for something. When they finally got to be one, they are getting rid of it .

I mean, the truth is...Thailand is not one mind. Just like US or UK are not. Some people want to be an international hub, and others deeply resent a foreign presence taking hold. And the government is overthrown ever 12 months or so lately, so right now it's the deeply resentful branch in charge. Cue the guys shouting about 'illegal workers' etc. But, you know

Edited July 20, 2014 by John1thru10

[Tomtomtom69]

Hello again and thanks for all the comments and replies. Sorry, that I didnt replyed yesterday, we were quite busy.

After a night and a morning full of thoughts, we decided to go to the immigration in Phuket Patpong (we are now in Khao Lak) and ask them for advice.

I told them, we changed our plans and left Cambodia earlier and counted wrong, so now we have a problem, as we would be 10 days too long in the country and what should we do? The officer checked our passports and said, we should leave the country and just come back, it is no Problem. I told him, that we tried that in ranong, but the officer there said, that we can go out but cannot come back. And we are afraid if we go to Malaysia f.e., that this will happen again.

The officer in Phuket looked confused (maybe he was surprised how the officer in Ranong reacted) and talked to the other one next to him (maybe the boss, as he was older) and the older one said, you get an extension for 7 days and then you go to the immigration in BKK and pay fine for overstaying 2 days. Its not a problem, its just 2 days.

So we did that and have now an extension until 29th. On the 1st august in the morning we will fly back to Germany. In the days between we try not to fight with anybody, or anything else. As the officers were quite relaxed, we are not afraid anymore.

Our baby didnt get an extension, they said, its free and doenst need. Its no problem.

Concering your comments: We visitied malaysia twice before, but staying there now more than 5 days its not an option. We have here in Thailand already booked the last hotel and flights, all in all we would lose about 400€ plus the new extra flights, we would need. So we would just have done the extreme version, if there wouldnt be any other option. But still we woukd have the same problem, maybe the officer at the BKK wouldnt let us in.

We travelled Thailand many times before and will return, for sure. Not in the next 2 years, but maybe when we saved enough money. I am angry, that the new immigration rules are so, that every officer can interpret them, like he wants. And if you have bad luck, then you cannot go in. And I think Ranong is one of the worse borders, probaply. The officer there didnt really ask for our travel plans, he asked "where are you staying" and I told him the hotel, where we slept that night. Then he asked, where we are going and I saiid Khao Lak and Krabi, then Bangkok. He never asked for a hotel or anything. I had every booking confirmed wth me, also the car rental papers and the flight papers. It didnt interested him at all.

Also I am angry on myself, that I didnt got an tourist visa. But we planned our journey, that we wouldnt need it. Next time I will do that different.

But thank you all, I hope everything is going to be fine and if not, I will write again from the prison ....

OK but if you do you might want to reconsider visiting Thailand again in the future. Thailand is a nice country in many respects, but I can't see why you would want to return again, if you ended up getting treated like that. Also, what's wrong with visiting Malaysia a third time. You've clearly been to Thailand before and are prepared to come again, so I don't see why re-visiting Malaysia again would be less desirable. Your whole post here is confusing - on the one hand you are afraid of and upset with these immigration directives on the other hand you are prepared to come again despite being treated fairly badly - I feel for you but next time plan better. I'm not saying never return to Thailand but if I were you I'd consider choosing a more friendly destination next time. Besides, you've seen Thailand how about Cambodia, Laos or Myanmar next time. Or Indonesia. Or China. And that's just in this region alone.