Denied entry at Krabi airport...

[gemguy]

Hmmmm...not good...but then again you forgot something important.

You forgot to include 1000 Baht slipped into your passport when you presented your document.

Up to 2000 Baht or more, if need be.

Cheers

[Richard W]

Who's going to be responsible for flying out those refused entry at Thai airports?

Extensively covered here over the last week, and the answer is that the airline who flew you to Thailand cops a fine and is responsible for organising your flight out of Thailand - if you dont have a return ticket they will bill you accordingly.

Airlines get fined for passengers who clearly don't qualify to be admitted. I've not heard that they get fined for bringing back already deported drug smugglers with valid tourist visas.

[aldo44]

From various stories I hear and read, it looks like at immigration they first check in the computer if the person is somewhere blacklisted, then they look if the passport is valid and if there are previous visa run (re-entry within a few days) stamps in the passport. It is strange that they don't have this stored in their computers as well, but they may come in future.... For the time being it should be OK to present a virgin passport, or without typical visa-run stamps.

In order to avoid discussions, my collegue, from Switzerland, has deposited his still valid passport with the Swiss authorities and got a new passport to travel (They use the same system for people who travel to Israel and hostile Arab countries, to not show some compromising stamps, ofcourse they let you use one passport at the time). I don't know if this is possible in other countries, but you can always report a passport being lost and replace it....

[WAERTH]

Multiply this by hundreds of times on International flights landing at Swampy... coming soon. And 99% of those denied will not have a second passport. Fireworks ... when being totally denied after flying 16,000 kilometers. !!!!

Somebody flying 16,000 kilometers would not have back to back to exempt entries that are just a few day apart.

Hi Ubonjoe,

Not wanting to be mr Wiseguy .... but ....

For my work I fly documents to Europe and turn around back to Thailand immediately. This means I leave on the 17th and come back on the 18th ..... having surprised many Thai immi officers with that when showing my flights and boarding passes.

W

[paz]

From various stories I hear and read, it looks like at immigration they first check in the computer if the person is somewhere blacklisted, then they look if the passport is valid and if there are previous visa run (re-entry within a few days) stamps in the passport. It is strange that they don't have this stored in their computers as well, but they may come in future.... For the time being it should be OK to present a virgin passport, or without typical visa-run stamps.

Immigration has the system. However is up to each officer discretion to use it. So they go by first look method.

Consulates do not have access to Immigration database, at least not at employee level. So a new passport is always a new starting point for them.

[Mario2008]

Multiply this by hundreds of times on International flights landing at Swampy... coming soon. And 99% of those denied will not have a second passport. Fireworks ... when being totally denied after flying 16,000 kilometers. !!!!

Somebody flying 16,000 kilometers would not have back to back to exempt entries that are just a few day apart.

Hi Ubonjoe,

Not wanting to be mr Wiseguy .... but ....

For my work I fly documents to Europe and turn around back to Thailand immediately. This means I leave on the 17th and come back on the 18th ..... having surprised many Thai immi officers with that when showing my flights and boarding passes.

W

Sounds like work and you should have a work permit and non-B visa.

[seancbk]

Multiply this by hundreds of times on International flights landing at Swampy... coming soon. And 99% of those denied will not have a second passport. Fireworks ... when being totally denied after flying 16,000 kilometers. !!!!

Somebody flying 16,000 kilometers would not have back to back to exempt entries that are just a few day apart.

Not necessarily true Joe, I flew to the UK for 24 hours last year and as a result had 2 back to back visa exempt stamps.

If someone can afford to fly somewhere just to enjoy dinner or surprise someone on their birthday, does it really matter how far the journey is?

[RTH10260]

"So when I politely asked 'If I use this passport may I enter?' they quickly flipped through it and said 'Yes, no problem.'"

I'm surprised they let you use the other passport, if your KL stamp-out was in the denied passport. The passport you were stamped-in to Thailand with had no originating flight stamp-out from KL, is that right?

just a note aside, European states don't "stamp out" anyone in their passports (UK?). Though Krabi may be served only by airliners coming from countries with that tradition.

[RTH10260]

"So when I politely asked 'If I use this passport may I enter?' they quickly flipped through it and said 'Yes, no problem.'"

I'm surprised they let you use the other passport, if your KL stamp-out was in the denied passport. The passport you were stamped-in to Thailand with had no originating flight stamp-out from KL, is that right?

Why is that relevant?

My Australian passport isn't out stamped when I leave Australia. If I then arrive somewhere and use, say, my. British passport, how does that matter?

You have to leave a country on the same passport as you arrived. But there's no rule that you have to arrive in a country on the same passport that you left the previous country.

Excellent point. I would also note the outcome of the thread from a 'new' poster who was allegedly bounced at Swampy a few days ago. I'd really like to see more confirmation that this is happening before allowing myself to get swept up in JDGRUEN-style hyperbole. No question that spending 20 minutes per new arrival grilling them on their travel history is a massive imposition on both Immigration staff and the others waiting in the queue, but if they are serious about sending a message to visa runners I dont see how it can be any other way.

As a note, the last time I arrived in swampy the queue was a snake line and officials directed to the next free IO desk, not as earlier getting stuck in a self chosen hell cause a prior person was resolving some problem.

[paz]

just a note aside, European states don't "stamp out" anyone in their passports (UK?). Though Krabi may be served only by airliners coming from countries with that tradition.

EU countries should stamp out those that entered with an Shengen visa.

All others, including EU citizens, can be stamped in and out by simply asking.

[LivinLOS]

just a note aside, European states don't "stamp out" anyone in their passports (UK?). Though Krabi may be served only by airliners coming from countries with that tradition.

EU countries should stamp out those that entered with an Shengen visa.

All others, including EU citizens, can be stamped in and out by simply asking.

Yes but his point remains.. That for many 'westerners' arriving to Thai international airports.. There is not prior connecting 'stamp out' to look for.

[hughben]

The OP stayed two to three days in KL and was denied.

How long exactly is the period one must be out of the country so it is not classed as back to back?

Wouldn't the example here mean if you were out 3 days or 6 months it would still be back to back?

Do you have to apply for a visa at a consulate between visa exempt?

I saw the figures for arrivals in Thailand earlier. How many arrivals are visa runners or not actual tourists? After this crackdown, it will be interesting to see the figures - showing a drop in arrival numbers.

[paz]

Yes but his point remains.. That for many 'westerners' arriving to Thai international airports.. There is not prior connecting 'stamp out' to look for.

That is fine, officers know that very well. No problem. If they want to know where you come from they will ask for your boarding pass.

[LivinLOS]

Yes but his point remains.. That for many 'westerners' arriving to Thai international airports.. There is not prior connecting 'stamp out' to look for.

That is fine, officers know that very well. No problem. If they want to know where you come from they will ask for your boarding pass.

I have never, ever, kept or been asked for that.. In possibly 100 flights into the country..

I dont even keep them after I am in my seat.. I was told this by someone else (your supposed to keep them) but never seen anything official or ever been asked.

[baboon]

Yes but his point remains.. That for many 'westerners' arriving to Thai international airports.. There is not prior connecting 'stamp out' to look for.

That is fine, officers know that very well. No problem. If they want to know where you come from they will ask for your boarding pass.

I have never, ever, kept or been asked for that.. In possibly 100 flights into the country..

I dont even keep them after I am in my seat.. I was told this by someone else (your supposed to keep them) but never seen anything official or ever been asked.

I have been asked, once or twice. It does happen every so often.

[RTH10260]

You'd think that the airlines are going to have to be the ones who decide whether they will fly you to Thailand ....or not.

Who's going to be responsible for flying out those refused entry at Thai airports?

Usually the passenger him/herself. They are not deported but denied entry. They get stuck in "international nomansland". It's up to them to find their next destination, there is a transfer desk airside at arrival, and they will rebook or sell next flight segment. Sleep on the benches as many do between flights. As for food, resources may be scarce at the arrival side, better usually once admitted to the departure area. Also no possibility to get hand onto luggage. Limited hygiene with only clothes on you and your hand luggage, seldom shower facilities available.

I thin in-famous American spy / data leaker Mr Snowden was some four weeks in limbo in Moscow until permission to escape into Russia.

Edited July 20, 2014 by RTH10260

[tropo]

Multiply this by hundreds of times on International flights landing at Swampy... coming soon. And 99% of those denied will not have a second passport. Fireworks ... when being totally denied after flying 16,000 kilometers. !!!!

Somebody flying 16,000 kilometers would not have back to back to exempt entries that are just a few day apart.

Sure it's unlikely, but not out of the question. I've done a 2 day trip to Australia (only 48 hours from exiting Thailand to arriving back again). I wasn't on visa exempt entry stamps, but people can make short duration long trips for a multitude of reasons.

[RTH10260]

Yes but his point remains.. That for many 'westerners' arriving to Thai international airports.. There is not prior connecting 'stamp out' to look for.

That is fine, officers know that very well. No problem. If they want to know where you come from they will ask for your boarding pass.

I have never, ever, kept or been asked for that.. In possibly 100 flights into the country..

I dont even keep them after I am in my seat.. I was told this by someone else (your supposed to keep them) but never seen anything official or ever been asked.

You may want to keep your boarding pass in case you wish to use the taxfree shops at arrival at Swampy rather than at your departure.

[xray]

"So when I politely asked 'If I use this passport may I enter?' they quickly flipped through it and said 'Yes, no problem.'"

I'm surprised they let you use the other passport, if your KL stamp-out was in the denied passport. The passport you were stamped-in to Thailand with had no originating flight stamp-out from KL, is that right?

just a note aside, European states don't "stamp out" anyone in their passports (UK?). Though Krabi may be served only by airliners coming from countries with that tradition.

US citizens are not stamped out when leaving the US either. On the Thai immigration form (handed to the IO on arrival), you must enter your departure (embarkation) point and flight number. The OP's journey and flight in this case originated in KL, so there would have been an exit stamp in the passport he used to go through immigration there.

Edited July 20, 2014 by xray

[Tomtomtom69]

Multiply this by hundreds of times on International flights landing at Swampy... coming soon. And 99% of those denied will not have a second passport. Fireworks ... when being totally denied after flying 16,000 kilometers. !!!!

Dual citizenship is more common than you think (1 in 4 Aussies has more than one nationality for instance) but I agree we're not in the majority. Luckily I'm in the OPs situation as I have 3 nationalities and therefore 3 passports, including one that hasn't been used for any Thailand entries for more than a year and then only for a one day entry (counted as 2 days by Thai immigration) in that case. I would of course not hand over a passport with a lot of visa exempt stamps to begin with, but the OPs story has certainly been very useful.

I do hope that there won't be blanket bans by immigration on travelers in the OPs situation who only have one passport though. Could be a big problem if that were the case.

[HerbalEd]

"So when I politely asked 'If I use this passport may I enter?' they quickly flipped through it and said 'Yes, no problem.'"

I'm surprised they let you use the other passport, if your KL stamp-out was in the denied passport. The passport you were stamped-in to Thailand with had no originating flight stamp-out from KL, is that right?

Why is that relevant?

My Australian passport isn't out stamped when I leave Australia. If I then arrive somewhere and use, say, my. British passport, how does that matter?

You have to leave a country on the same passport as you arrived. But there's no rule that you have to arrive in a country on the same passport that you left the previous country.

As a US citizen, I am never stamped out of or into the US. However, there have been a number of times that I had to find the stamp-out of the previous country before Immigration would stamp me into the country I had just arrived at. Most immigration officers are good at finding the last stamp-out, but my passport has had so many pages added to it, with so many stamps, that there have been times when I had to find the stamp-out for them...that is the only reason I know that it is looked for, at least by some.

In what countries?

I have been a regular traveller for 25+ years all over the world having lived in a number of countries and worked/travelled to many more. I've never had it happen, so I'm interested to know where

Ditto for me. I have been a very frequent international traveler for fifty years, have visited 65 different countries, and have been through immigration hundreds of times .... and I have NEVER had this happen either.

[Tomtomtom69]

"So when I politely asked 'If I use this passport may I enter?' they quickly flipped through it and said 'Yes, no problem.'"

I'm surprised they let you use the other passport, if your KL stamp-out was in the denied passport. The passport you were stamped-in to Thailand with had no originating flight stamp-out from KL, is that right?

just a note aside, European states don't "stamp out" anyone in their passports (UK?). Though Krabi may be served only by airliners coming from countries with that tradition.

Only Malaysia and Singapore are linked with Krabi I think, so you're right as both countries stamp passports both on arrival and departure.

[xray]

As a US citizen, I am never stamped out of or into the US. However, there have been a number of times that I had to find the stamp-out of the previous country before Immigration would stamp me into the country I had just arrived at. Most immigration officers are good at finding the last stamp-out, but my passport has had so many pages added to it, with so many stamps, that there have been times when I had to find the stamp-out for them...that is the only reason I know that it is looked for, at least by some.

In what countries?

I have been a regular traveller for 25+ years all over the world having lived in a number of countries and worked/travelled to many more. I've never had it happen, so I'm interested to know where

Ditto for me. I have been a very frequent international traveler for fifty years, have visited 65 different countries, and have been through immigration hundreds of times .... and I have NEVER had this happen either.

I believe that it is a certainty then, that in your numerous trips through various immigration over the years, somewhere along the way an IO has checked an exit stamp. They just didn’t need help finding it in your passport. See post #63 of this thread for a report by another poster.

As for land borders, I can say with certainty that it is (or has been in the past) checked. I had to walk back to Cambodian immigration and ask for my exit stamp to be redone at the Trat crossing, because the date was wrong. The Thai IO wouldn’t stamp me in until this was corrected.

Too many personal experiences to list them all, or even remember most.

I drove my own vehicle from LA to Panama and back in 1991. Every country I entered checked my exit stamp (among other items associated with driving a vehicle across the border).

Coming back to India from Bangladesh, I not only had my exit stamp scrutinized, I was accused of having a fake passport because of all the pages that had been added to it. They kept me there for 3 hours and looked at everything to do with my passport.

Somewhere, an IO has checked an exit stamp in your passport, you were just unaware of it.

[hawker9000]

If I understand the OP's situation correctly, he was coming off of his 3rd visa exempt stamp, requesting his fourth in a row. And all four were separated by only a couple of days spent in the same neighboring country each time. Combine this with the situation in the south, where the senior immigration official has apparently taken it upon himself to impose an exceptionally draconian regime, and the outcome seems consistent with some other stories coming from that region. But I'm not sure I agree with the generalized "three chops and you're out" observation. Three consecutive visa exempt entries, separated by months (instead of a couple of days) spent in your home country (instead of the same neighboring country), would be different I think, even there in the south. Hard to know where you stand these days though. Even harder to know where you'll stand after 12 AUG.

I also have to wonder where the situation would actually have ended up if the OP hadn't had a second passport. Would it have proceeded to actually having to go back to KL, or instead, in the end, to some other outcome (e.g., warning, O&I stamp, 7-day entry)?

[Maestro]

Removes an off-topic post about " Turkey, Syria, and Jordan in 1995"

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[xray]

Thank you Maestro, I don’t want to be guilty of piling on.

If I understand the OP's situation correctly, he was coming off of his 3rd visa exempt stamp, requesting his fourth in a row. And all four were separated by only a couple of days spent in the same neighboring country each time....

I also have to wonder where the situation would actually have ended up if the OP hadn't had a second passport. Would it have proceeded to actually having to go back to KL, or instead, in the end, to some other outcome (e.g., warning, O&I stamp, 7-day entry)?

That is my understanding of the OP. I would not want to be in that situation without the second passport. I wonder if the OP's age and acumen played a part in gaining entrance. Could someone else with the same second passport, in that situation, still be refused?

Edited July 20, 2014 by xray

[NanLaew]

US citizens are not stamped out when leaving the US either. On the Thai immigration form (handed to the IO on arrival), you must enter your departure (embarkation) point and flight number. The OP's journey and flight in this case originated in KL, so there would have been an exit stamp in the passport he used to go through immigration there.

Non US citizens are also not stamped out by US Immigration on departure. It's a totally different system to Thailand in that both citizens and non-citizens are 'stamped out' when they check-in for their international flight. The airline passes that information to US Immigration. Beyond some self-service kiosks at some airports and an additional passport check immediately before/after TSB security, there is no Immigration presence air-side departures in the US. But believe me when I say that US Immigration does have a record of when everyone departs by air.

In the EU, when passing through a Schengen country's Immigration, one may request that they stamp your passport if your passport is from a non-Schengen country that doesn't qualify for stamping such as the UK passport.

Back on topic; I have 'flipped' passports several times on flights from KUL to BKK, ie. departure stamp from Malaysia is in different passport than the one shown to Thai Immigration on arrival. Never a question asked by Thai Immigration as to where I have come from as it is already written in the Arrival/Departure card which they use to annotate the arrival stamp with the flight number. If they cannot read your handwriting or you have omitted the flight information from the arrival card, they will ask what flight you arrived on or ask for the boarding pass.

The OP arrived in Krabi airport, a southern airport where they have already totally clamped down on visa-exempt entry on the nearby land crossings. Trying to get an idea of what rate of visa-exempt exit/entry or what length of time outside the Kingdom is 'safe' is on a hiding for nothing. As shown by the OP's experience, he was ineligible on one passport and within a minute, eligible on another. The circumstances that led to temporary ineligibility didn't change, just the means of proving eligibility did.

Totally arbitrary. Look it up if one doesn't understand the meaning of arbitrary.

[xray]

I have 'flipped' passports several times on flights from KUL to BKK, ie. departure stamp from Malaysia is in different passport than the one shown to Thai Immigration on arrival. Never a question asked by Thai Immigration as to where I have come from as it is already written in the Arrival/Departure card which they use to annotate the arrival stamp with the flight number. If they cannot read your handwriting or you have omitted the flight information from the arrival card, they will ask what flight you arrived on or ask for the boarding pass.

The OP arrived in Krabi airport, a southern airport where they have already totally clamped down on visa-exempt entry on the nearby land crossings. Trying to get an idea of what rate of visa-exempt exit/entry or what length of time outside the Kingdom is 'safe' is on a hiding for nothing. As shown by the OP's experience, he was ineligible on one passport and within a minute, eligible on another. The circumstances that led to temporary ineligibility didn't change, just the means of proving eligibility did.

Totally arbitrary. Look it up if one doesn't understand the meaning of arbitrary.

"Totally arbitrary."

Does that mean you suspect someone else in the exact same situation as our OP, with the same two passports and stamps, could be turned around, say just because of appearance, demeanor, age, not moving to Thailand with money, different IO, etc? Or, would most get in with that second passport?

Edited July 21, 2014 by xray

[BestBitterPhuket]

"So when I politely asked 'If I use this passport may I enter?' they quickly flipped through it and said 'Yes, no problem.'"

I'm surprised they let you use the other passport, if your KL stamp-out was in the denied passport. The passport you were stamped-in to Thailand with had no originating flight stamp-out from KL, is that right?

I am a permanent resident of Singapore and every time I go back there I will not get any stamp, and neither would it if I went to my home country.

[LivinLOS]

"So when I politely asked 'If I use this passport may I enter?' they quickly flipped through it and said 'Yes, no problem.'"

I'm surprised they let you use the other passport, if your KL stamp-out was in the denied passport. The passport you were stamped-in to Thailand with had no originating flight stamp-out from KL, is that right?

just a note aside, European states don't "stamp out" anyone in their passports (UK?). Though Krabi may be served only by airliners coming from countries with that tradition.

Only Malaysia and Singapore are linked with Krabi I think, so you're right as both countries stamp passports both on arrival and departure.

Unless of course you managed a connecting flight..