Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

 

I was married for less than one year when I applied (successfully) for PR back in the 1990s. My application did reference the marriage and that my wife was expecting. Since Immigration followed up and asked for a copy of the birth certificate during the course of the review period, clearly the marriage and child did count for something.

 

Having said that, I don't believe that there is a category for PR that is based upon marriage to a Thai. The requirements are visa, tax and education for the most part. Being married to a Thai may help, but isn't the basis for PR.

 

 

The point about being married to a Thai lady / having Thai kids and how that relates to gaining PR seems to be a question mark.

 

I got PR 26+ years ago. I was appraoched by the husband of a Thai work colleague who wanted to change his career and become a PR / Citizenship consultant. He mentioned I would be his first client and that he had some knowledge of the subject but assisting me would also be his major learning experience.

The consultant (spoke advanced English) had already establshed that by the letter of the law the applicant had to prove he had held a Thai work permit and had paid all personal taxes for 3 yesrs at the time of applying.

 

The consultant had also learned that Thai Immigration were not accepting applications unless the foreigner could prove 7 years of WPs and peraonal taxes paid. In fact I had more like 10 years up and I had luckily kept all the documents.

 

We went to the old Immigration office on Soi Suan Plu and submitted the documents. As we were walking out a senior officer approached us and in perfect English said "Do you have about 2 hours to have your interview right now?"

 

I said YES and he took us to another room. The interview ws total English. I asked 'Will there be a Thai language interview later". The office laughed and said NO, PR is not a language test. That of course has changed.

 

The Immigration officer was very professional and friendly and a good listener and he said several times 'don't hesitate to ask me any questions.

 

The officer shared that PR is about 7 years of WPs and taxes all paid. Hold ing WP at the time of pplication, Work which contributes to the development of Thailand, Advanced education and proof of some type of growth investment to support old age, personal attitudes and behaviors.

 

My consultant asked "Is there any advantage for the applicant to be married to a Thai lady?" Answer:  NO because PR is about YOU, not about your marriage status.

 

At the end of the interview the officer said "I am recommending you to be approved and I can pretty much guarantee you will be approved but you will need to wait until very late this year to get the appproval document.

 

A twist: both my consultant and his Thai wife were well qualified and well experienced chemical process engineers. Not long after my PR submission they were both offered very senior positions in the US (same location) with a very professional / high performance chemical giant, with very big salaries and benefits. They accepted.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

9 hours ago, scorecard said:

The point about being married to a Thai lady / having Thai kids and how that relates to gaining PR seems to be a question mark.

 

I got PR 26+ years ago. I was appraoched by the husband of a Thai work colleague who wanted to change his career and become a PR / Citizenship consultant. He mentioned I would be his first client and that he had some knowledge of the subject but assisting me would also be his major learning experience.

The consultant (spoke advanced English) had already establshed that by the letter of the law the applicant had to prove he had held a Thai work permit and had paid all personal taxes for 3 yesrs at the time of applying.

 

The consultant had also learned that Thai Immigration were not accepting applications unless the foreigner could prove 7 years of WPs and peraonal taxes paid. In fact I had more like 10 years up and I had luckily kept all the documents.

 

We went to the old Immigration office on Soi Suan Plu and submitted the documents. As we were walking out a senior officer approached us and in perfect English said "Do you have about 2 hours to have your interview right now?"

 

I said YES and he took us to another room. The interview ws total English. I asked 'Will there be a Thai language interview later". The office laughed and said NO, PR is not a language test. That of course has changed.

 

The Immigration officer was very professional and friendly and a good listener and he said several times 'don't hesitate to ask me any questions.

 

The officer shared that PR is about 7 years of WPs and taxes all paid. Hold ing WP at the time of pplication, Work which contributes to the development of Thailand, Advanced education and proof of some type of growth investment to support old age, personal attitudes and behaviors.

 

My consultant asked "Is there any advantage for the applicant to be married to a Thai lady?" Answer:  NO because PR is about YOU, not about your marriage status.

 

At the end of the interview the officer said "I am recommending you to be approved and I can pretty much guarantee you will be approved but you will need to wait until very late this year to get the appproval document.

 

A twist: both my consultant and his Thai wife were well qualified and well experienced chemical process engineers. Not long after my PR submission they were both offered very senior positions in the US (same location) with a very professional / high performance chemical giant, with very big salaries and benefits. They accepted.

I also had about a decade of work and tax records when I applied and I did not have a very formal interview, although it was in Thai. Only one officer sat with me for a few minutes and asked a couple of questions about my work and salary. Nothing difficult and all the questions were about my application and supporting documents. Nothing like "who is the prime minister" or anything like that. I'm not even sure that this was the formal interview. If it wasn't, then I did not have one. But that was back in the 1990s and times have changed and so has the application process. 

[Michael Hare]

10 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

 

I was married for less than one year when I applied (successfully) for PR back in the 1990s. My application did reference the marriage and that my wife was expecting. Since Immigration followed up and asked for a copy of the birth certificate during the course of the review period, clearly the marriage and child did count for something.

 

Having said that, I don't believe that there is a category for PR that is based upon marriage to a Thai. The requirements are visa, tax and education for the most part. Being married to a Thai may help, but isn't the basis for PR.

 

 

I got my PR in 2004 (applied in 2002) on the basis of being married to a Thai and having a dependent (our son). This was the cheapest category to apply for PR then. 25,000 baht in 2002, but by 2004 was up to 96,000 baht (Thaksin and Purachai put these fees up). My wife was definitely part of the process and was interviewed at length. 

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

1 hour ago, Michael Hare said:

I got my PR in 2004 (applied in 2002) on the basis of being married to a Thai and having a dependent (our son). This was the cheapest category to apply for PR then. 25,000 baht in 2002, but by 2004 was up to 96,000 baht (Thaksin and Purachai put these fees up). My wife was definitely part of the process and was interviewed at length. 

Just checked a law firm's website and indeed there is a category for supporting Thai spouse or family. I stand corrected.

[jayboy]

1 hour ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

Just checked a law firm's website and indeed there is a category for supporting Thai spouse or family. I stand corrected.

I may have not got this quite right but I seem to remember being advised by a senior Thai lawyer that it was better to apply for PR on the business rather than family basis since the criteria were exactly the same, and there was no need to involve the wife. So that is what I did.

[Dogmatix]

14 hours ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

Hello guys,

I've been away for a while (having Thai ID since 2020) but I would need some information for a friend, so I'll be happy to catch up on the information regarding PR. I see some Guru names that I remember well in the page... Arkady, Scorecard... still there, congrats, mates ! I hope you're all fine. 

Can someone remind me or confirm that PR door still open in the last months of the year, that male foreigners married to Thai wife can apply on the basis of marriage after just one year of marriage (or three?) assuming they already have the 3-year WP and tax submission? and how long the process takes in the recent years (It took me 4 years in 2008-2012), is it 6-12 months as I could read recently somewhere? Finally is there any big change in the process or requirements worth knowing in the recent years?

Thank you in advance!

Being married to a Thai doesn't make it easier but gets you a big discount on the final fee.  I am unaware of any length of time requirement for the marriage before applying but they will scrutinise the marriage in their half arsed way,. e.g. have you photograph yourselves jumping up and down on the marital bed together and may quizz neighbours to see if you really live together there.

 

Applications take place towards the end of the year following the announcement in the RG of the routine cabinet resolution to set quotas for PR (always 100 per nationality) as required by the Immigration Act.  The annoucemennt can happen anywhere between May and December but usually from October onwards. Of course quite pointless since there has never been any variation in the quota but that's Thailand for you.

[Dogmatix]

45 minutes ago, jayboy said:

I may have not got this quite right but I seem to remember being advised by a senior Thai lawyer that it was better to apply for PR on the business rather than family basis since the criteria were exactly the same, and there was no need to involve the wife. So that is what I did.

I think that's right. You don't want to apply under the humanitarian category for supporting or being supported by Thai wife or kids as that is a PITA and criteria are the same, i.e. work permit required, and they don't like the category but someone put it in the regulations years ago to make it look like they were the nice guys they aren't.  You also don't want to apply under the investor category as that is also a PITA and criteria the same, WP needed from own company. 

 

think the answer is that there is no specific married category apart from humanitarian category but you apply under the business category and ask for a discount on the basis of having a Thai wife. 

[scorecard]

32 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

Being married to a Thai doesn't make it easier but gets you a big discount on the final fee.  I am unaware of any length of time requirement for the marriage before applying but they will scrutinise the marriage in their half arsed way,. e.g. have you photograph yourselves jumping up and down on the marital bed together and may quizz neighbours to see if you really live together there.

 

Applications take place towards the end of the year following the announcement in the RG of the routine cabinet resolution to set quotas for PR (always 100 per nationality) as required by the Immigration Act.  The annoucemennt can happen anywhere between May and December but usually from October onwards. Of course quite pointless since there has never been any variation in the quota but that's Thailand for you.

"Quotas remain the same..." That's my understanding also, going back 26 years.

 

The year I got PR the total number approved from my birth country was 5 (five) applicants. 

[Michael Hare]

4 hours ago, jayboy said:

I may have not got this quite right but I seem to remember being advised by a senior Thai lawyer that it was better to apply for PR on the business rather than family basis since the criteria were exactly the same, and there was no need to involve the wife. So that is what I did.

More expensive though. I couldn't apply through business because I was a university lecturer.

[stbkk]

When I applied in 2006 (under the business category) my wife and baby son came with me on the various visits to immigration (Suan Plu in those days), and immigration asked for copies of the baby's birth certificate, which we supplied. A few months later I then had to go to the police hospital with my son to have a DNA test to prove I was actually his biological father!

 

[scorecard]

From Michael Hare earlier:

 

"Having said that, I don't believe that there is a category for PR that is based upon marriage to a Thai. The requirements are visa, tax and education for the most part. Being married to a Thai may help, but isn't the basis for PR."

                                    ------------------------

I recall at my 'immediate' interview the snr., imm. officer said 'work permits' show that the applicant has actually been working in Thailand for an extended priod, but the interview should then go further and establish whether the applicant has, over an extended period, been working in a profession / position etc., which is contributing to the development of Thailand and establish that advanced professional knowledge/skills are being passed on to the Thai colleagues in the work situation. 

 

In my interview this did get a lot of discussion. In fact my agent called his Thai wife (senior position at my company) and the snr., immigration officer asked her to give examples of my work outputs and the knowledge/skills required and asked for examples of transfer of knowledge etc. The lady from my company offered to get 2 of my staff ready to talk to the imm. officer on the phone the next day. That was all agreed, then he went back to earlier discussion points and asked me to explain further in detail.

 

Then at the end of the interview the imm / officer said  "I'm going to cancel the call tomorrow, I've convinced there is good / valuable knowledge and skill transfer." 

 

[Dogmatix]

6 hours ago, scorecard said:

"Quotas remain the same..." That's my understanding also, going back 26 years.

 

The year I got PR the total number approved from my birth country was 5 (five) applicants. 

Quotas were already in place when the current Immigration Act came into force in 1979. They date back to the early 1950s in the wake of the communist revolution in China when the military government decided it was time to pull down the shutters on Chinese immigration out of fear of a communist fifth column. That was effective as PR was relatively easy to get apart from the quota and there wasn't any other visa available to migrants. Fees were increased substantially at the same time. The quotas have only ever been aimed at the Chinese.  100 per nationality and 50 stateless persons is the maximum quota allowed by law.  So the cabinet only has discretion to set a lower quota or not set any quota.  But neither of those options have ever been exercised, so it is completely pointless for the cabinet to have to make a resolution every year.  Without that applications could be made any time like citizenship. 

[GabbaGabbaHey]

How long does the average PR process takes at the moment?

[GabbaGabbaHey]

Is there anybody in this thread who obtained PR in the past few years, who can tell how long it took for the whole process?

[Michael Hare]

On 4/22/2023 at 11:44 AM, GabbaGabbaHey said:

Is there anybody in this thread who obtained PR in the past few years, who can tell how long it took for the whole process?

I applied in December 2001 and obtained PR in August 2004. At the time I thought it was an extremely long time. 

[scorecard]

7 minutes ago, Michael Hare said:

I applied in December 2001 and obtained PR in August 2004. At the time I thought it was an extremely long time. 

During the Thaksin / Purachai era the processing stopped and didn't restart for about 6 or 7 years. 

[Naiyana]

On 4/22/2023 at 11:44 AM, GabbaGabbaHey said:

Is there anybody in this thread who obtained PR in the past few years, who can tell how long it took for the whole process?

I applied in Dec 2020, got approved in Feb 2022

[onthemoon]

42 minutes ago, Naiyana said:

I applied in Dec 2020, got approved in Feb 2022

Gee, I was just a few months too late. My application was sent to MOI in April 2021, still waiting for the MOI interview.

[jayboy]

9 minutes ago, onthemoon said:

Gee, I was just a few months too late. My application was sent to MOI in April 2021, still waiting for the MOI interview.

As far as I know there is no MOI interview involved.

[onthemoon]

12 minutes ago, jayboy said:

As far as I know there is no MOI interview involved.

My bad. I mixed this up with my citizen application.

 

For my PR, I took six years. Applied in 2006, received it in 2012. Those were other times...

[anthonyT]

On 4/22/2023 at 11:44 AM, GabbaGabbaHey said:

Is there anybody in this thread who obtained PR in the past few years, who can tell how long it took for the whole process?

Hi there,

 

Got my application approved in December 2021 and will go collect my PR this coming week, so altogether 1 year and 6 months.

Ant.

[orientalist]

On 3/16/2023 at 12:41 PM, scorecard said:

And note, you can be shown in any Tabien Baan book.

 

It's NOT required / NOT necessary that you have some personal relationship with the owner of the house where you reside or with the person who is shown as  the 'house master' in the front of the book.

 

As above, you can be in any Tabien Baan book in Thailand. 

 

Since i will have to do this soon, I have a few questions:

If i register at address A but live at address B, do i admit this to anyone or just claim i really live at A? 

If I live at B what happens about the owner's obligation to report foreign tennants to Immigration? 

I pay my own SSO each month. Will they insist i register a hospital near A (based on my Pink Card) or allow me to use B? 

[Naiyana]

On 5/12/2023 at 4:15 PM, orientalist said:

Since i will have to do this soon, I have a few questions:

If i register at address A but live at address B, do i admit this to anyone or just claim i really live at A? 

If I live at B what happens about the owner's obligation to report foreign tennants to Immigration? 

I pay my own SSO each month. Will they insist i register a hospital near A (based on my Pink Card) or allow me to use B? 

1. No problem admitting it to anyone, many Thais are registered at their hometown but live elsewhere 

2. Hey, you get PR. You don’t need to do TM30 anymore 

3. I don’t think SSO would notice your change of immigration status. You will have to contact them if you wish it to be changed

 

 

[scorecard]

28 minutes ago, Naiyana said:

1. No problem admitting it to anyone, many Thais are registered at their hometown but live elsewhere 

2. Hey, you get PR. You don’t need to do TM30 anymore 

3. I don’t think SSO would notice your change of immigration status. You will have to contact them if you wish it to be changed

 

 

I confirm, PR holders are not required to submit TM30.

I haven't done this once in the 27 years I've had Thai PR.  

[anthonyT]

Hi There,

 

I am off to go to the district office today to be put into the blue tabiaan baan after receiving my Pr and police red book a few days ago. Now my Hr called ahead to the district office to make sure i can go in the tabiaan  baan, but they told her a certificate of the Pujai Baan of my tesssabaan is needed. Is that correct? Or are they making it unnecessary difficult? Is there any document to show that a Pr holder is required by law to go into the blue tabiaan baan? as my supsicision is that they dont know and are making steps up?

 

Advice would be appreciated as always

 

Ant.

[scorecard]

26 minutes ago, anthonyT said:

Hi There,

 

I am off to go to the district office today to be put into the blue tabiaan baan after receiving my Pr and police red book a few days ago. Now my Hr called ahead to the district office to make sure i can go in the tabiaan  baan, but they told her a certificate of the Pujai Baan of my tesssabaan is needed. Is that correct? Or are they making it unnecessary difficult? Is there any document to show that a Pr holder is required by law to go into the blue tabiaan baan? as my supsicision is that they dont know and are making steps up?

 

Advice would be appreciated as always

 

Ant.

Congratuations. Got my PR 27 years ago.

 

As we all know all of these processes can be a bit different location by location. And there is no doubt that at many offfices they have never had a farang get PR before so they don't know the procedures. 

 

When my PR book was issued the same lady asked, "what tabien baan book will your name go into'?

 

I didn't own property at that time. The Thai friend who was driving me around that day instantly asked the lady 'can he go on my Tabien Baan record*? And he instantly offered his Tabien Baan sheets.

 

The lady did a 1 second scan, no questions asked, and she then quickly hand wrote my name/details on the sheets.

 

The friend/driver wasn't asked to sign anything.

 

*This was before the Tabien Baan system was computerized and Tabien Baaan books started to be used.  

[anthonyT]

33 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Congratuations. Gotmy PR 27 years ago.

 

As we all know all of these processes can be a bit different ;pcation by location.

 

When my PR book was issued the same lady asked, "what tabien baan book will your name go into'?

 

I didn't own property at that time. The Thai friend who was driving me around that day instantly asked the lady 'can he go on my Tabien Baan record*? And he instantly offered his Tabien Baan sheets.

 

The lady did a 1 second scan, no questions asked, and she then quickly hand wrote my name/details on the sheets.

 

The friend/driver wasn't asked to sign anything.

 

*This was before the Tabien Baan system was computerized and Tabien Baaan books started to be used.  

thank you very much Scorecard. Very happy to have received the pr.

I suspect that the Amphur officer at my Hr spoke to dont know what the Pr is or that they are mistaking it with the 3 months certifcate of residence one can get.

 

Then my question would be if anybody would have any link or document where it is stated by the government that a Pr holder must be listed on a blue tabiaan baan.

 

many thanks

 

Ant. 

[Michael Hare]

A PR holder name goes into the blue book. I don't know if it must be listed, but having your name in the blue book certainly helps with documentation from time to time. Like getting your renewable of a driver's licence. No need to ever show your passport again when getting a driver's licence. Show your red book and blue house registration book. My advice to you is get it done as quickly as possible. Nothing to do with the Puyai Baan. While getting the blue book, get your pink ID card. 

[anthonyT]

2 hours ago, Michael Hare said:

A PR holder name goes into the blue book. I don't know if it must be listed, but having your name in the blue book certainly helps with documentation from time to time. Like getting your renewable of a driver's licence. No need to ever show your passport again when getting a driver's licence. Show your red book and blue house registration book. My advice to you is get it done as quickly as possible. Nothing to do with the Puyai Baan. While getting the blue book, get your pink ID card. 

Thanks.

Just got back from the Amphur office here in Banglamung.

 

Need next to copies of all the books including the work permit she saw and the marriage certificate a legalized, and certified by the MIFO  a translated to Thai language copy of the first page of my passport. 

 

That and 2 Thai's with bluebook and Id card for the next visit together with my wife who is the owner of our house.

 

fyi, for anybody trying to get on the blue Tabiaan Baan book here also. 

 

 

Ant. 

[Michael Hare]

56 minutes ago, anthonyT said:

Thanks.

Just got back from the Amphur office here in Banglamung.

 

Need next to copies of all the books including the work permit she saw and the marriage certificate a legalized, and certified by the MIFO  a translated to Thai language copy of the first page of my passport. 

 

That and 2 Thai's with bluebook and Id card for the next visit together with my wife who is the owner of our house.

 

fyi, for anybody trying to get on the blue Tabiaan Baan book here also. 

 

 

Ant. 

I didn't need all that. I had a marriage certificate legalised immediately after I got married in Thailand. That was no problem. I don't remember taking my passport in. I am in Ubon Ratchathani and the Amphur just recognised the red book. Maybe because they are familiar with PR as there are or were several hundred local Chinese-Vietnamese with PR.