Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[Arkady]

So you get two books? I didn't know that.

There's a photo of them both in the first post of this topic.

Generally speaking, the Alien's Book is for domestic use. It's all in Thai and issued by the local police station. The PR book is for leaving and entering the country, and functions in lieu of a visa. It's issued by Immigration. When you first get PR they put a stamp in your passport, but it is not transferred to subsequent passports, so your passport appears to have no valid visa for Thailand in it. It's a clunky system. I don't know why they can't just give us some kind of smart card.

The normal procedure is that you get an endorsement of your PR book and a re-entry permit in your passport at the same time, both being valid for 1 year. The re-entry can be single or multiple. If you never leave the country, you shouldn't need either, but in fact if you apply for a Thai driving licence they insist you have a valid re-entry stamp in your passport.

The visaless problem also occurs in other contexts, if you don't maintain an up-to-date re-entry visa, e.g. opening a bank account when they need a copy of the current visa page in your passport or applying for a visa to another country or sponsoring a Thai partner for a visa. The system is rather archaic and confusing and I can't blame people for assuming that an apparently expired visa is a problem. A PR ID card would be a good solution but I doubt that government agencies would get together to agree on such a logical solution. It would also make several bureaucrats redundant.

[Arkady]

Hi! To class of 2006 and my own class of 2008:

At least some 2006 ( looks like 7 ) have already been issued. All the others from 2006, 2007 who did not get any negative notice until now are : accepted, just waiting for the final signature.

I got a call yesterday from them, they needed one more original paper. Today morning was a big session. Obviously it is about the final decision about the 2008 class. If you got no neative answer until next week, all will be ok. Now starts the waiting part.... But the good news is: Obviously the are working on it !!!

Good luck to us all!

just for my curiosity, from where u get this information about the 7 PRs been issued for the class of 2006?

I can confirm that 7 people have recently been approved and had the documents issued but not all were from the class of 2006. Some were from the class of 2007. I understand all 7 have very high level connections who pulled strings in the Interior Ministry on their behalf.

I have no information about the others from the classes of 2006 and 2007 but I hope that Siamfan is right in saying all have been approved in principle and await only the paperwork. It seems to me likely that the logjam will be broken at some point as there has never been any hint of a mass rejection (as happened early in the Thaksin regime) or of putting the entire process under review. The process is already strict enough and involves very limited numbers as well as being quite expensive, so as to present no kind of a threat.

[MikeyIdea]

Hi! To class of 2006 and my own class of 2008:

At least some 2006 ( looks like 7 ) have already been issued. All the others from 2006, 2007 who did not get any negative notice until now are : accepted, just waiting for the final signature.

I got a call yesterday from them, they needed one more original paper. Today morning was a big session. Obviously it is about the final decision about the 2008 class. If you got no neative answer until next week, all will be ok. Now starts the waiting part.... But the good news is: Obviously the are working on it !!!

Good luck to us all!

just for my curiosity, from where u get this information about the 7 PRs been issued for the class of 2006?

I can confirm that 7 people have recently been approved and had the documents issued but not all were from the class of 2006. Some were from the class of 2007. I understand all 7 have very high level connections who pulled strings in the Interior Ministry on their behalf.

I have no information about the others from the classes of 2006 and 2007 but I hope that Siamfan is right in saying all have been approved in principle and await only the paperwork. It seems to me likely that the logjam will be broken at some point as there has never been any hint of a mass rejection (as happened early in the Thaksin regime) or of putting the entire process under review. The process is already strict enough and involves very limited numbers as well as being quite expensive, so as to present no kind of a threat.

I agree with the last poster and I don't think that the process has completely stalled at all, It will come one day, they all will slowly come. But not revolution style, that doesn't happen in Thailand unless funding is involved

I am class of 2009 and expect 2014...

[skyaslimit]

Hi! To class of 2006 and my own class of 2008:

At least some 2006 ( looks like 7 ) have already been issued. All the others from 2006, 2007 who did not get any negative notice until now are : accepted, just waiting for the final signature.

I got a call yesterday from them, they needed one more original paper. Today morning was a big session. Obviously it is about the final decision about the 2008 class. If you got no neative answer until next week, all will be ok. Now starts the waiting part.... But the good news is: Obviously the are working on it !!!

Good luck to us all!

just for my curiosity, from where u get this information about the 7 PRs been issued for the class of 2006?

I can confirm that 7 people have recently been approved and had the documents issued but not all were from the class of 2006. Some were from the class of 2007. I understand all 7 have very high level connections who pulled strings in the Interior Ministry on their behalf.

I have no information about the others from the classes of 2006 and 2007 but I hope that Siamfan is right in saying all have been approved in principle and await only the paperwork. It seems to me likely that the logjam will be broken at some point as there has never been any hint of a mass rejection (as happened early in the Thaksin regime) or of putting the entire process under review. The process is already strict enough and involves very limited numbers as well as being quite expensive, so as to present no kind of a threat.

I agree with the last poster and I don't think that the process has completely stalled at all, It will come one day, they all will slowly come. But not revolution style, that doesn't happen in Thailand unless funding is involved

I am class of 2009 and expect 2014...

Good Luck

[Kwasaki]

This has gone on a long time and just wondered what is the advantages of residencey. ?

Whenever I mention it everybody says don't bother !!

[GabbaGabbaHey]

<br />This has gone on a long time and just wondered what is the advantages of residencey. ? <br /><br />Whenever I mention it everybody says don't bother  !!<br />

<br /><br /><br />

The obvious ones I can think of (I am part of class 2008).

Anyone, let me know if some assumptions are wrong.

* You can stay here forever without the need of a visa (no more 90-days reports too)

* You no longer require a "reason" or "justification" to be in Thailand (namely a company, a work permit, a visa, pension, income)

* You basically no longer require to work and pay taxes in Thailand (that's just my guess, if other can confirm) for instance if you have overseas resources or can set some overseas online business

* You are more protected for the future compared to people who rely on their Thai spouse for the family visa, should something happen to her

* You can buy condomimum units with money that you have earned in Thailand

* If you have non-Thai wife and children, they can get residency with you and you could save a lot on the long term regarding visa fees and days spent at One-Stop center.

* For those interested, it is the main path to Thai citizenship

I think these advantages are serious ones for people who want to reside in Thailand, I mean those who plan to live the rest of their life here. Those who just consider residency as a possible option usually miss the spirit and thus see no benefit when they look at the constraints (e.g. if you are out ot the country more than a year in a row, you lose it).

[SAMCHAROEN]

<br />This has gone on a long time and just wondered what is the advantages of residencey. ? <br /><br />Whenever I mention it everybody says don't bother  !!<br />

<br /><br /><br />

The obvious ones I can think of (I am part of class 2008).

Anyone, let me know if some assumptions are wrong.

* You can stay here forever without the need of a visa (no more 90-days reports too)

* You no longer require a "reason" or "justification" to be in Thailand (namely a company, a work permit, a visa, pension, income)

* You basically no longer require to work and pay taxes in Thailand (that's just my guess, if other can confirm) for instance if you have overseas resources or can set some overseas online business

* You are more protected for the future compared to people who rely on their Thai spouse for the family visa, should something happen to her

* You can buy condomimum units with money that you have earned in Thailand

* If you have non-Thai wife and children, they can get residency with you and you could save a lot on the long term regarding visa fees and days spent at One-Stop center.

* For those interested, it is the main path to Thai citizenship

I think these advantages are serious ones for people who want to reside in Thailand, I mean those who plan to live the rest of their life here. Those who just consider residency as a possible option usually miss the spirit and thus see no benefit when they look at the constraints (e.g. if you are out ot the country more than a year in a row, you lose it).

I would like to add another benefit to the list above.

It seems that the bank here no longer extend loans to buy property unless you hold a PR (you may however buy it with 100% of your own money).

[Camelot]

Another plus is that if you don't leave the country, you never have to go near the Immigration Dept ever again.

[skyaslimit]

Agree.

The only thing is that this process is too stretched, its not like old days now that you can get a PR within a year or so now a days this process take ages, may be the immigration is very well aware of all the benefits you guys mentioned above and want to see all of us a little bit longer.

[MikeyIdea]

<br />This has gone on a long time and just wondered what is the advantages of residencey. ? <br /><br />Whenever I mention it everybody says don't bother !!

The obvious ones I can think of (I am part of class 2008).

Anyone, let me know if some assumptions are wrong.

* You can stay here forever without the need of a visa (no more 90-days reports too)

* You no longer require a "reason" or "justification" to be in Thailand (namely a company, a work permit, a visa, pension, income)

* You basically no longer require to work and pay taxes in Thailand (that's just my guess, if other can confirm) for instance if you have overseas resources or can set some overseas online business

* You are more protected for the future compared to people who rely on their Thai spouse for the family visa, should something happen to her

* You can buy condomimum units with money that you have earned in Thailand

* If you have non-Thai wife and children, they can get residency with you and you could save a lot on the long term regarding visa fees and days spent at One-Stop center.

* For those interested, it is the main path to Thai citizenship

I think these advantages are serious ones for people who want to reside in Thailand, I mean those who plan to live the rest of their life here. Those who just consider residency as a possible option usually miss the spirit and thus see no benefit when they look at the constraints (e.g. if you are out ot the country more than a year in a row, you lose it).

I have a family so I see the main reason as security, if the company I work for were to close down or make me redundant, then I don't have to leave the country within midnight the same day the company does it. Visa Extensions are only valid for the time the reason for the extension exist (unlike visas which are valid until they expire) so I understand it as the visa extension is invalid and I will be without valid visa from the day the company formally cancel the employment, not the day they cancel the work permit. Not an attractive position for a father to be in.

Can someone confirm this

[MikeyIdea]

<br />This has gone on a long time and just wondered what is the advantages of residencey. ? <br /><br />Whenever I mention it everybody says don't bother !!<br />

The obvious ones I can think of (I am part of class 2008).

Anyone, let me know if some assumptions are wrong.

* You can stay here forever without the need of a visa (no more 90-days reports too)

* You no longer require a "reason" or "justification" to be in Thailand (namely a company, a work permit, a visa, pension, income)

* You basically no longer require to work and pay taxes in Thailand (that's just my guess, if other can confirm) for instance if you have overseas resources or can set some overseas online business

* You are more protected for the future compared to people who rely on their Thai spouse for the family visa, should something happen to her

* You can buy condomimum units with money that you have earned in Thailand

* If you have non-Thai wife and children, they can get residency with you and you could save a lot on the long term regarding visa fees and days spent at One-Stop center.

* For those interested, it is the main path to Thai citizenship

I think these advantages are serious ones for people who want to reside in Thailand, I mean those who plan to live the rest of their life here. Those who just consider residency as a possible option usually miss the spirit and thus see no benefit when they look at the constraints (e.g. if you are out ot the country more than a year in a row, you lose it).

I would like to add another benefit to the list above.

It seems that the bank here no longer extend loans to buy property unless you hold a PR (you may however buy it with 100% of your own money).

I read in another post today other members confirming that UOB do extend loans with westerners as guarantor based on work permit, no PR

[Mario2008]

When on an extension of stay the rule is that if the reason for the extension of stay no longer exists your permission to stay ends. So if you work and lose your job, you have to leave the same day your job end and if you are on an extension of stay and the marriage ends (divorce or death) you also have to leave the country.

You can always get a 7 day "extension" from immigration, giving you some breathing space and it is possible to file for an extension of stay based on another reason. So if you are married to a Thai and have an extension of stay based on work, when you lose your job you can apply for an extension of stay based on having a Thai wife (if you meet the requirements).

[farangfarang4]

Can anybody please tell me the extension number for the PR department at Chaengwattana ?

I could only find the basic number 02-141-9899 , but not the extension.

thanks.

[stbkk]

<br />This has gone on a long time and just wondered what is the advantages of residencey. ? <br /><br />Whenever I mention it everybody says don't bother !!<br />

<br /><br /><br />

The obvious ones I can think of (I am part of class 2008).

Anyone, let me know if some assumptions are wrong.

* You can stay here forever without the need of a visa (no more 90-days reports too)

* You no longer require a "reason" or "justification" to be in Thailand (namely a company, a work permit, a visa, pension, income)

* You basically no longer require to work and pay taxes in Thailand (that's just my guess, if other can confirm) for instance if you have overseas resources or can set some overseas online business

* You are more protected for the future compared to people who rely on their Thai spouse for the family visa, should something happen to her

* You can buy condomimum units with money that you have earned in Thailand

* If you have non-Thai wife and children, they can get residency with you and you could save a lot on the long term regarding visa fees and days spent at One-Stop center.

* For those interested, it is the main path to Thai citizenship

I think these advantages are serious ones for people who want to reside in Thailand, I mean those who plan to live the rest of their life here. Those who just consider residency as a possible option usually miss the spirit and thus see no benefit when they look at the constraints (e.g. if you are out ot the country more than a year in a row, you lose it).

I can obviously only speak for myself, but as far as I am concerned the only advantage as far as I can see is the security of stay.

You only need to look at the other posts on the forum to see the ever changing hoops that many people have to deal with on an annual (if they are lucky) basis to stay in Thailand. So many of the visas/extensions to stay seem to be almost at the whim of the immigration officer you are dealing with, it must be a source of huge stress for many people.

If/when my PR (class of 2006, still waiting, not dead yet) gets approved, it will simply mean I can stay for as long as I like. As I have posted here before, while they may change the application process, so far (so good) once it is granted, PR seems to mean P(ermanent). End of story.

Any other benefits (and from a personal point of view, most of these are fairly tenuous as far as I can tell) are a bonus as far as I am concerned.

Here's hoping everybody.

[camerata]

* You basically no longer require to work and pay taxes in Thailand (that's just my guess, if other can confirm) for instance if you have overseas resources or can set some overseas online business

I don't think your tax status actually changes when you get PR. You are still liable to pay tax on income from abroad if it comes into Thailand the same year it was generated. In practice, though, it may be quite easy to simply drop under the radar and not file a tax return. After retirement, I would still want to file a return to get a refund for the withholding tax on fixed deposit accounts at Thai banks, and I know they don't like giving refunds. So there's a possibility they might start asking me about other income or ask for proof that I am living off savings. Anyway, I'll know soon enough.

[GabbaGabbaHey]

* You basically no longer require to work and pay taxes in Thailand (that's just my guess, if other can confirm) for instance if you have overseas resources or can set some overseas online business

I don't think your tax status actually changes when you get PR. You are still liable to pay tax on income from abroad if it comes into Thailand the same year it was generated. In practice, though, it may be quite easy to simply drop under the radar and not file a tax return. After retirement, I would still want to file a return to get a refund for the withholding tax on fixed deposit accounts at Thai banks, and I know they don't like giving refunds. So there's a possibility they might start asking me about other income or ask for proof that I am living off savings. Anyway, I'll know soon enough.

Sorry if this bullet was confusing, I admit it is, I didn't want to say that PR means no taxes, for sure under PR one is still required to pay taxes following the regulation and revenue department. I just wanted to express the fact that one of the condition to obtain PR is to have worked and payed significant taxes in Thailand (the higher the better), but the day you get PR, should your company fire you, your income be cut or should you find alternate foreign sources of income (not brought to Thailand the year they are earned) and be legally in the situation to not have to pay taxes, then nobody can come and tell you to get out of the country.

May I add one more benefit to the list, an important one to me although less obvious, it is the psychological apect: before PR, one may feel he is just tolerated in Thailand. After PR, by no longer facing the immigration department, I believe one can start feeling he's accepted and (a bit?) at home.

[SAMCHAROEN]

* You basically no longer require to work and pay taxes in Thailand (that's just my guess, if other can confirm) for instance if you have overseas resources or can set some overseas online business

I don't think your tax status actually changes when you get PR. You are still liable to pay tax on income from abroad if it comes into Thailand the same year it was generated. In practice, though, it may be quite easy to simply drop under the radar and not file a tax return. After retirement, I would still want to file a return to get a refund for the withholding tax on fixed deposit accounts at Thai banks, and I know they don't like giving refunds. So there's a possibility they might start asking me about other income or ask for proof that I am living off savings. Anyway, I'll know soon enough.

Sorry if this bullet was confusing, I admit it is, I didn't want to say that PR means no taxes, for sure under PR one is still required to pay taxes following the regulation and revenue department. I just wanted to express the fact that one of the condition to obtain PR is to have worked and payed significant taxes in Thailand (the higher the better), but the day you get PR, should your company fire you, your income be cut or should you find alternate foreign sources of income (not brought to Thailand the year they are earned) and be legally in the situation to not have to pay taxes, then nobody can come and tell you to get out of the country.

May I add one more benefit to the list, an important one to me although less obvious, it is the psychological apect: before PR, one may feel he is just tolerated in Thailand. After PR, by no longer facing the immigration department, I believe one can start feeling he's accepted and (a bit?) at home.

Yes I agree to the psychological aspec 100% and it was one of the big reasons why I applied for the PR.

This is not to say that I feel unwelcome under my current status. Frankly, it's the love for this country that makes me want to stay here forever.

[Arkady]

<br />

* For those interested, it is the main path to Thai citizenship

I am not sure that this is true any longer. While PR remains the only path to Thai citizenship for foreigners not married to Thai citizens, since 2008 it has been possible for men married to Thai women to apply for citizenship without getting PR first. This has been possible for foreign women married to Thai men since, I think, the first Nationality Act. I suspect that in future marriage to a Thai will be the main path to Thai citizenship, if it isn't already. A significant percentage of men who applied before the 2008 Nationality Act changed the rules were married to Thai women and such people in future might not bother with PR which is significantly more expensive, even for those with Thai wives, requires more onerous documentation and takes as long or longer to process.

[GabbaGabbaHey]

This is not to say that I feel unwelcome under my current status. Frankly, it's the love for this country that makes me want to stay here forever.

I share your feeling, and I love this country too. My words are definitely not about Thai people that are so kind and welcoming people, but about an administrative process (the 90 days report) which doesn't make a difference between foreigners residing almost 365 days a year in Thailand (who must fill, like me, the form every 90 days) and business expats who frequently travel back to their country of origin and thus are not required to fill it. I have a growing psychological issue with this 90-days form, because it is nonsense in my situation of having lived at the same place with my [Thai] wife and [Thai] children for more than ten years, paying my taxes every year in time, and to be required to fill this form and provide my passport every 3 months. This is one of the drivers for my PR application.

[SAMCHAROEN]

Yes.. So many of us might be feeling as if they are out on bail or something and have to report to their parole officer every 90 days. Like you I don't know what purpose this rule serves and it's a waste of everyones time. If you have done something wrong they know where to find you. Surely they don't expect criminals to walk right upto the Imm staff just to get caught. Only people who have nothing to fear will do that. So do they mean to apply a process of elimination? Meaning those who report have nothing to hide and those who don't must be kept an eye on? Mysterious this!

[GabbaGabbaHey]

<br />While PR remains the only path to Thai citizenship for foreigners not married to Thai citizens, since 2008 it has been possible for men married to Thai women to apply for citizenship without getting PR first. [...] the 2008 Nationality Act changed the rules [...] such people in future might not bother with PR which is significantly more expensive.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

That's good to know. Is there any "guide-to-the-citizenship" discussion forum somewhere? I think it would interest many to have direct feedback from someone who followed this way. I'd be very interested to know about the papers required, the time it takes, the cost, general conditions and how the "original" nationality/passport is handled because I don't think I am prepared to accept anything that would void my current nationality outside Thailand and specially in my country (of origin). Let me know if you have any information on this topic.

[Mario2008]

Look here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Story-Thai-Citizenship-Applicatio-t121353.html

For documents:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/post-a102367-Guidelines-for-Application-for-Natu.html

[GabbaGabbaHey]

Thank you for this. I'll take time to digest it.

[naiharn]

<br />While PR remains the only path to Thai citizenship for foreigners not married to Thai citizens, since 2008 it has been possible for men married to Thai women to apply for citizenship without getting PR first. [...] the 2008 Nationality Act changed the rules [...] such people in future might not bother with PR which is significantly more expensive.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

That's good to know. Is there any "guide-to-the-citizenship" discussion forum somewhere? I think it would interest many to have direct feedback from someone who followed this way. I'd be very interested to know about the papers required, the time it takes, the cost, general conditions and how the "original" nationality/passport is handled because I don't think I am prepared to accept anything that would void my current nationality outside Thailand and specially in my country (of origin). Let me know if you have any information on this topic.

That's not what the requirements (according to the guide posted by Mario2008) say.

Those requirements say:

They should have received permission from the Immigration Bureau to remain

permanently

in the Kingdom of Thailand and be able to show supporting

documentation in the form of a Certificate of Residence, an Alien Registration

Book, or a House Registration Certificate (Thor Ror 14) that proves

incontrovertibly that they have been

permanently resident

in Thailand for not

less than 5 years.

To me that means 'PR' for 5 years. There is no clause which says 'if you have a Thai wife, you don't need this'.

But there is a more worrying new condition:

Applicants should produce a document that they have submitted to their

embassy or consulate in Thailand that demonstrates their

intention to renounce

their existing citizenship

when they are approved for Thai citizenship.

No thankyou!

I would like to read the full law (not just a guide) - does anyone have a link to the law in either Thai or English?

[skyaslimit]

<br />While PR remains the only path to Thai citizenship for foreigners not married to Thai citizens, since 2008 it has been possible for men married to Thai women to apply for citizenship without getting PR first. [...] the 2008 Nationality Act changed the rules [...] such people in future might not bother with PR which is significantly more expensive.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

That's good to know. Is there any "guide-to-the-citizenship" discussion forum somewhere? I think it would interest many to have direct feedback from someone who followed this way. I'd be very interested to know about the papers required, the time it takes, the cost, general conditions and how the "original" nationality/passport is handled because I don't think I am prepared to accept anything that would void my current nationality outside Thailand and specially in my country (of origin). Let me know if you have any information on this topic.

That's not what the requirements (according to the guide posted by Mario2008) say.

Those requirements say:

They should have received permission from the Immigration Bureau to remain

permanently

in the Kingdom of Thailand and be able to show supporting

documentation in the form of a Certificate of Residence, an Alien Registration

Book, or a House Registration Certificate (Thor Ror 14) that proves

incontrovertibly that they have been

permanently resident

in Thailand for not

less than 5 years.

To me that means 'PR' for 5 years. There is no clause which says 'if you have a Thai wife, you don't need this'.

But there is a more worrying new condition:

Applicants should produce a document that they have submitted to their

embassy or consulate in Thailand that demonstrates their

intention to renounce

their existing citizenship

when they are approved for Thai citizenship.

No thankyou!

I would like to read the full law (not just a guide) - does anyone have a link to the law in either Thai or English?

Here is the link .........read the whole law

http://www.thaivisa....n-for-Natu.html

[philokezzar]

Hi, I'm new here and I'm wondering if anyone can suggest a good agent for applying PR this year. Thanks a lot

[tombkk]

Hi, I'm new here and I'm wondering if anyone can suggest a good agent for applying PR this year. Thanks a lot

All an agent does is get you the list of documents required, which is available in English for free at the immigration. Then you'll have to get the documents together by yourself. All the agent does is check that they are complete according to the list. They will need to be translated into Thai, and if the agent hires a translator, it will cost more than if you contact a translator yourself.

As a side note, kindly note that since we already have September, I suggest you start getting the docs together now. Depending on your county, it may take some time to get the police report, which of course also will have to be translated, for example. This advice is free! Like, in fact, any questions you may have and ask in this forum.

[Larryst]

Applicants should produce a document that they have submitted to their

embassy or consulate in Thailand that demonstrates their

intention to renounce

their existing citizenship

when they are approved for Thai citizenship.

No thankyou!

I would like to read the full law (not just a guide) - does anyone have a link to the law in either Thai or English?

Is this for a Thai PR also and do you have to notice your embassy or consulate you have to renounce your existing citizenship???? Is this true???

[samran]

<br />While PR remains the only path to Thai citizenship for foreigners not married to Thai citizens, since 2008 it has been possible for men married to Thai women to apply for citizenship without getting PR first. [...] the 2008 Nationality Act changed the rules [...] such people in future might not bother with PR which is significantly more expensive.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

That's good to know. Is there any "guide-to-the-citizenship" discussion forum somewhere? I think it would interest many to have direct feedback from someone who followed this way. I'd be very interested to know about the papers required, the time it takes, the cost, general conditions and how the "original" nationality/passport is handled because I don't think I am prepared to accept anything that would void my current nationality outside Thailand and specially in my country (of origin). Let me know if you have any information on this topic.

That's not what the requirements (according to the guide posted by Mario2008) say.

Those requirements say:

They should have received permission from the Immigration Bureau to remain

permanently

in the Kingdom of Thailand and be able to show supporting

documentation in the form of a Certificate of Residence, an Alien Registration

Book, or a House Registration Certificate (Thor Ror 14) that proves

incontrovertibly that they have been

permanently resident

in Thailand for not

less than 5 years.

To me that means 'PR' for 5 years. There is no clause which says 'if you have a Thai wife, you don't need this'.

But there is a more worrying new condition:

Applicants should produce a document that they have submitted to their

embassy or consulate in Thailand that demonstrates their

intention to renounce

their existing citizenship

when they are approved for Thai citizenship.

No thankyou!

I would like to read the full law (not just a guide) - does anyone have a link to the law in either Thai or English?

You are confusing things. As you've posted above, 5 years on the 'House Registration Certificate (Thor Ror 14)' is enough to get you over the line. The TR 14 is otherwise known as the yellow tabieen baan. Anyone with a non-immigrant visa can get on this. My wife has, and she doesn't have PR, which is another status in itself.

As for the 'intention' to renounce upon application. Well, my take on it is that intention is fine, and intentions can change. It does not ask you to show that you have renounced your former citizenship (impossible in most cases, since most countries won't allow you to renounce if the result is you become stateless). It only asks for the 'intention' letter upon application. There is no insistance that you actually follow through with it upon receiving Thai citizenship, which at the current rate, may not happen for another 10 years or so!.

[Arkady]

<br />While PR remains the only path to Thai citizenship for foreigners not married to Thai citizens, since 2008 it has been possible for men married to Thai women to apply for citizenship without getting PR first. [...] the 2008 Nationality Act changed the rules [...] such people in future might not bother with PR which is significantly more expensive.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

That's good to know. Is there any "guide-to-the-citizenship" discussion forum somewhere? I think it would interest many to have direct feedback from someone who followed this way. I'd be very interested to know about the papers required, the time it takes, the cost, general conditions and how the "original" nationality/passport is handled because I don't think I am prepared to accept anything that would void my current nationality outside Thailand and specially in my country (of origin). Let me know if you have any information on this topic.

That's not what the requirements (according to the guide posted by Mario2008) say.

Those requirements say:

They should have received permission from the Immigration Bureau to remain

permanently

in the Kingdom of Thailand and be able to show supporting

documentation in the form of a Certificate of Residence, an Alien Registration

Book, or a House Registration Certificate (Thor Ror 14) that proves

incontrovertibly that they have been

permanently resident

in Thailand for not

less than 5 years.

To me that means 'PR' for 5 years. There is no clause which says 'if you have a Thai wife, you don't need this'.

But there is a more worrying new condition:

Applicants should produce a document that they have submitted to their

embassy or consulate in Thailand that demonstrates their

intention to renounce

their existing citizenship

when they are approved for Thai citizenship.

No thankyou!

I would like to read the full law (not just a guide) - does anyone have a link to the law in either Thai or English?

The Interior Ministry's current interpretation of the Nationality Act with the 2008 amendments is that applications are accepted from males without PR if they have been married to a Thai national for 3 years, or have been married to a Thai national for 1 year and have produced a Thai child with her. Simply being on a tabien baan is not enough for those not married to a Thai. They must have an alien book and a cert of residence too. The Ministry's interpretation of the Act can and does change from time to time. Those interested should visit Special Branch in bdg 24 at National Police HQ for up-to-date information on requirements and procedures.