Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[chinadarling]

so even if you are a 'perminent resident' you still have to apply for an annual visa?

I find this part of Thailand so wierd. Why bother being a perminent resident? what does it get you?

191,000 baht is not pocket change adn can you not just get a non immmigrant visa instead?

[Arkady]

Will current political events affect PR applications??

I would not have thought so, no link has been made by Gen Sonthi & Co. between what is effectively an internal Thai political matter and PR applicant policy.

Could be wrong, but on the face of it I can't see a relationship between the 2 matters.

Tim

I applied for PR when purachai was about to go. the interior ministry changed hands and changed hands again ... the whole PR process was on hold for over two years.

they did not redefine the rules, but it took time.

maybe the political situation has an influence. surely timewise, as the interior minister has to give his final signature. and who knows when we got a permanent interior minister again?

Good point, until there's an interior minister there can be no signing off on PR aps. I don't think it would be necessary that the interior minister be 'permanent', as surely an interim minister could sign as well.

I would not worry too much about this point. Of course, anything can happen but the interim interior minister is most likely to be a experienced bureaucrat and will probably approve the applications in an orderly manner according to the rules. In my case, Banharn had just been canned as PM and Interior Minister but the immigration bureaucrats still managed to get him to sign all the applications before he vacated his desk.

[Tywais]

so even if you are a 'perminent resident' you still have to apply for an annual visa?

No. You probably won't have to see immigration again except for a re-entry permit if you leave the country.

[fergus]

I knew some one about 10 years ago who claimed his application was facilitated by a B300k deposit made in cash to the sister of a police general. He said it was a lot of trouble getting introduced to the right person and organising the gratuity, as they were very scared of foreigners blowing the whistle on them, but once it was done he only had two interviews of five minutes each and no requests for further documents. I cannot vouch for the authenticity of this story but it seems quite possible. However, I assume there is more competition amongst Chinese and Indian applicants as there are usually more than the country quota of 100 applicants, so they are more likely to look for ways to bribe their way in than farangs who never bang up against their country's quota.

For those going through the front door, which is most, testimonials from civil servants, specially senior policemen, are worth a lot more than those from businessmen, academics etc however prominent the latter may be. Apart from the police and of course Immigration itself the most useful would be senior officials from the Interior Ministry, Tourist Authority of Thailand, Labor Ministry, National Intelligence Agency. This because they sit on the committee for permance residence that decides on your application, assuming you were not turned down at Immigration without referral to the committee. I think the most important thing is working for a large company in Thailand with lots of paid up capital that pays a lot of tax. I have known people working for large firms get it without difficulty when their testimonials and evidence of contribution to Thai society looked weak to me. But these are critical if you work for a small company. If it is your own B2 million company, most of these are automatically rejected, so up your capital to at least B5 million before your apply and raise your own salary to at least B150k a month before your apply. You can always drop again afterwards.

In addition to the benefits already mentioned you are allowed to apply for a gun permit which I am not advocating anyone does but just so as you know. More importanly anything you normally need a work permit for e.g. opening a bank account, buying a car, you can do as a permanent resident without having to show a work permit.

All this about testimonials and bribes, personally I think it's a crock of <deleted>. It's always I know someone who knows someone who did it. I got mine in the 2004 batch and didn't provide any testimonials or references, didn't show any contribution to thai society, and saw know obvious way of bribing anyone even if I wanted too.

My advice -- get the basic documents right and if you fit the criteria and you're not scum of the earth, you'll get it. Simple!

[fergus]

Well, if you weren't a criminal before this process, you most likley will become one because of it.

1. AFPsite horrendously slow ( when it works of course , which is seldom )

2. There is some basic info on the cost of a finger print check, but not how to freaking do it from 5000 miles away

3. Embassy ( both consular and AFP ) pretty hopeless too ( very good at saying " we dont do it"- seems to be standard On-job-training when u get a job with the Govt. )

http://www.afp.gov.au/business/criminal_history_checks

I got my fingerprints done at the local Thai police station and then posted them to Oz federal police. I then emailed the feds via the address on their web site and they were back to me next day with answers to questions and to say how it was all going. Hardest bit was getting the Oz currency money order. All worked in the end though.

Edited October 9, 2006 by fergus

[Arkady]

Does any one have any information about applying for Thai citizenship? Camerata?

[skippybangkok]

Well, if you weren't a criminal before this process, you most likley will become one because of it.

1. AFPsite horrendously slow ( when it works of course , which is seldom )

2. There is some basic info on the cost of a finger print check, but not how to freaking do it from 5000 miles away

3. Embassy ( both consular and AFP ) pretty hopeless too ( very good at saying " we dont do it"- seems to be standard On-job-training when u get a job with the Govt. )

http://www.afp.gov.au/business/criminal_history_checks

I got my fingerprints done at the local Thai police station and then posted them to Oz federal police. I then emailed the feds via the address on their web site and they were back to me next day with answers to questions and to say how it was all going. Hardest bit was getting the Oz currency money order. All worked in the end though.

Cheers and Thanks. Got the prints and sent it to them. Will e-mail them and see what the status is like. thanks ( p.s which mail address did you use ? ). Oz Currency, did it through my mother ( they come in handy at times )

[camerata]

It's no problem paying for an overseas criminal record check with a bank cheque. I got mine at the Bangkok Bank branch near Sukhumvit Soi 49. It's fairly quiet there. Avoid the obnoxious staff at the Soi 12 branch at all costs.

[samran]

Does any one have any information about applying for Thai citizenship? Camerata?

For a male applying:

If you go to the national police headquarters in Bangkok, across from central world plaza on Rama 1, and go to building 5, they can sort you out with the documentation.

The basics:

- assorted copies of your passport

- copies of any alien registrations

- photos

- house registration of the entire family

- marriage certificates translated into thai

- bank deposits of at least 80K

- 5 years as a permanent resident (from the day you receive the booklet)

- 3 years of tax returns prior to applying for citizenship

- history of charitable donations (no less than 5,000 baht). These donations should not simply be for the purposes of the citizenship application

- tax returns showing 30K per month salary ( if married to a Thai, or have children born here)

- tax returns showing 80K per month salary ( if not married to a Thai)

- current work permit (so they still want you to be working)

- letter from employer varifying that salary, position in the firm

- educational certificates, and those of all your family

- what I translate as copies of any land documents of your current residence

- ID cards of two Thai nationals who can support your character and citizenship application (who can also be available for interview at a later point)

- ability to sing the national anthem and the royal anthem

Various character assesments are made based on applicants history, criminal checks, etc as well as ability to speak and understand thai.

Interviews will aslo be held by the police HQ and the ministry of interior at various stages by the appointed committe.

The pricess takes up to three years. Three months at the police HQ and the rest of the time at the ministry of interior.

Anyway, that is just a summary, best to head down to building 5 at police HQ.

[Arkady]

Does any one have any information about applying for Thai citizenship? Camerata?

For a male applying:

If you go to the national police headquarters in Bangkok, across from central world plaza on Rama 1, and go to building 5, they can sort you out with the documentation.

The basics:

- assorted copies of your passport

- copies of any alien registrations

- photos

- house registration of the entire family

- marriage certificates translated into thai

- bank deposits of at least 80K

- 5 years as a permanent resident (from the day you receive the booklet)

- 3 years of tax returns prior to applying for citizenship

- history of charitable donations (no less than 5,000 baht). These donations should not simply be for the purposes of the citizenship application

- tax returns showing 30K per month salary ( if married to a Thai, or have children born here)

- tax returns showing 80K per month salary ( if not married to a Thai)

- current work permit (so they still want you to be working)

- letter from employer varifying that salary, position in the firm

- educational certificates, and those of all your family

- what I translate as copies of any land documents of your current residence

- ID cards of two Thai nationals who can support your character and citizenship application (who can also be available for interview at a later point)

- ability to sing the national anthem and the royal anthem

Various character assesments are made based on applicants history, criminal checks, etc as well as ability to speak and understand thai.

Interviews will aslo be held by the police HQ and the ministry of interior at various stages by the appointed committe.

The pricess takes up to three years. Three months at the police HQ and the rest of the time at the ministry of interior.

Anyway, that is just a summary, best to head down to building 5 at police HQ.

Thanks for the helpful post. For some one three years away from applying without Thai wife, do you know if you would need to show tax receipts to prove salary over B80,000 for the whole three years or just prove B80,000 salary at the time of application?

Has any one actually gone through the process and got any tips?

[samran]

the lady told me three years of tax returns are needed. The amounts differ depending on your 'status' so to speak.

ed: we're talking about citizenship applications here

[Tywais]

the lady told me three years of tax returns are needed. The amounts differ depending on your 'status' so to speak.

I believe the 80k requirement is only under the category of 'Work'. My application will be based on the category of 'Expert' and that requirement is not necessary to meet as with category of 'Married to Thai national'. And three years of tax returns is correct.

[lopburi3]

The 2005 list of those making the August 30, 2006 cut are listed on the immigration website and this should link to the PDF

Note there are 10 Americans and 6 British listed out of total of 108. Most seem to be from PRC.

[johnh101]

With regards to showing bank books as part of the application procedure is there a set amount needed to be shown as in other applications ie retirement or marriage.

[camerata]

With regards to showing bank books as part of the application procedure is there a set amount needed to be shown as in other applications ie retirement or marriage.

No, there's no set amount. I guess it would be good to show that you aren't living hand-to-mouth, though. I doubt a small amount in the bank would matter if you had other disposable assets.

[jjp]

the lady told me three years of tax returns are needed. The amounts differ depending on your 'status' so to speak.

I believe the 80k requirement is only under the category of 'Work'. My application will be based on the category of 'Expert' and that requirement is not necessary to meet as with category of 'Married to Thai national'. And three years of tax returns is correct.

Hi,

I went for it a few years back but didn't earn enough per month. I earn over 80k now so could apply on the work category or apply for the married to a Thai category.

So what happens if you apply on the basis of being married to a Thai and she dies, do they revoke the residency? Anyone know?

The difference is 100,000 baht and i would rather pay the extra knowing that if something does happen to my wife (God forbid) i would still be able to remain here.

Cheers,

JJP

[camerata]

So what happens if you apply on the basis of being married to a Thai and she dies, do they revoke the residency? Anyone know?

As far as I know, they don't reassess your status once you've got it. That's the big advantage of PR.

The difference is 100,000 baht and i would rather pay the extra knowing that if something does happen to my wife (God forbid) i would still be able to remain here.

It's 100K if you are married. It's the same rate if you apply in the "business" category and are married. You only pay 200K if you are single.

[jjp]

So what happens if you apply on the basis of being married to a Thai and she dies, do they revoke the residency? Anyone know?

As far as I know, they don't reassess your status once you've got it. That's the big advantage of PR.

Thanks for the reply Camreata.

Yeah your probally right, just checking. Also u never know here do you? TIT

The difference is 100,000 baht and i would rather pay the extra knowing that if something does happen to my wife (God forbid) i would still be able to remain here.

It's 100K if you are married. It's the same rate if you apply in the "business" category and are married. You only pay 200K if you are single.

I mean that the difference of 100,000 baht when applying for work cat and married to Thai cat.

As i said, i would rather pay 195,000 for the work cat than 95,000 married to a Thai Cat with the knowledge that they could not revoke, if something happens to the missus.

Once again cheers

JJP

[tjd46]

Something I forgot to mention is that when applying for PR you are given a 6-month extension visa, which is followed by 3-month extensions until the application is approved or rejected. But you can ask for 6-month extensions and that will save you a work permit renewal each time. Make a point of seeing the same officer you dealt with before and asking for 6 months.

There is some good information about PR requirements at http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/do...tion4extend.doc dated December 2003. It gives a good idea of how they intended the system to work, complete with a disclaimer at the end saying that even if you fulfill all the requirements they can still reject you and don't have to tell you the reason.

All good stuff...would it be possible for you to provide the name and contact details of your lawyer's firm?

[THAIJAMES]

Bad news.

Just received my FBI record today. it shows an arrest for possession of controlled substances 22 years ago!

I thought it would have been taken off the record after such a long time. At the time they told me that this would not show on my record!

then it shows: "Drug Diversion Dismissed" In other words the case was dismissed because it was my first offense and I decided to do some community work.

Will this affect my PR visa application?

This entry was on a separate page. It seems like I could easily leave that page out without someone noticing it.

With an FBI record, is there some entry that says "No record found".

Any help on how to get around this problem will be much appreciated.

Edited November 7, 2006 by THAIJAMES

[sabaijai]

Anyone know what the applicates dates this December are?

[THAIJAMES]

If anyone is applying under a business PR, keep in mind that they will not consider you unless you have a monthly salary of 80k preferably 100k or 5 Million in Ownership in the company.

[sabaijai]

If anyone is applying under a business PR, keep in mind that they will not consider you unless you have a monthly salary of 80k preferably 100k or 5 Million in Ownership in the company.

I was told 80K/month.

Dates, anyone? Wondering if immigration has announced the application dates for this year.

[camerata]

Dates, anyone? Wondering if immigration has announced the application dates for this year.

From what I recall, they announce the application date only a few days in advance and it's always around mid-December.

[camerata]

As a weird epilogue to my own application (successful and finalized in May) I just got a registered letter from Immigration at my office address saying that my application has been approved and I should take my documents along within 30 days. The letter was dated March 2006.

[younghusband]

Dates, anyone? Wondering if immigration has announced the application dates for this year.

From what I recall, they announce the application date only a few days in advance and it's always around mid-December.

This is correct.I have wondered whether the way the announcement is handled is subconsciously at least to discourage applications! I would have missed the announcement altogether if not reminded by my Thai lawyer who keeps close contact with these matters.

[Bredbury Blue]

Read through all the pages and am seriously considering applying.

Just couple things concern me:

1. Must ALL documents be included at the time of making the application - my concern is how i would get a UK criminal record check done in the one month remaining?

2. When applying under work or business, must you have been working in the current company for at least 1 year, up to the date of application submission - i've just joined a new company recently but have held a work permit for the past 6 years and the old WP was cancelled and new WP gained on the same day (at BOI office)?

3. Any body know approx what lawyer's charge for the whole process?

[skippybangkok]

As a weird epilogue to my own application (successful and finalized in May) I just got a registered letter from Immigration at my office address saying that my application has been approved and I should take my documents along within 30 days. The letter was dated March 2006.

What was the outcome? Assume things jsut sailed along anyway ?

[camerata]

What was the outcome? Assume things jsut sailed along anyway ?

I assume the second letter was a duplicate/mistake. I got the PR back in May. That original letter was dated February and delivered to my home address.

[camerata]

1. Must ALL documents be included at the time of making the application - my concern is how i would get a UK criminal record check done in the one month remaining?

I think all documents have to be included when you submit the application, although others may be requested later. The criminal record check takes 3-4 weeks, so if you start now (use EMS) and submit at the end of the year you might just do it. On the other hand, the UK police would be mailing back to you by ordinary airmail during the Xmas rush.

2. When applying under work or business, must you have been working in the current company for at least 1 year, up to the date of application submission - i've just joined a new company recently but have held a work permit for the past 6 years and the old WP was cancelled and new WP gained on the same day (at BOI office)?

I don't think you need to have worked at the same company but you do need all the relevant work/tax/company documents for the past three years. Would your previous employer cooperate in this?