Thai man bitten by Tarantula spider dies in hospital

[arjunadawn]

 
 
It was not a tarantula or a brown recluse.....people simply don't die of spider bites....unless they get the wrong kind of treatment or there is some delay or complication.
Or as seems possible someone decided that "traditional medicine" was suitable.
(let's just hope they didn't misdiagnose ebola!)
 
 

 
Anaphylactic shock can strike. Different people, different reaction.
 

Sounds like septic shock for sure (typical bad spider bite). Bite. Infection. Gas bacteria. Toxin. Sepsis. Amputation. Sepsis. Renal exhaustion processing toxin. Shut down. Bacterial sepsis. Anaphylaxis more immediate and unlikely to target kidneys, usually airway. Edited July 29, 2014 by arjunadawn

[wilcopops]

He died from bacterial infection originating at the site of the bite. 

 

 

no - he 
MAY have died from a bacterial infection SUBSEQUENT to what is assumed to be a bite.

you are confusing association and causation.

 

Edited July 29, 2014 by wilcopops

[wilcopops]

 

 

 
 
It was not a tarantula or a brown recluse.....people simply don't die of spider bites....unless they get the wrong kind of treatment or there is some delay or complication.
Or as seems possible someone decided that "traditional medicine" was suitable.
(let's just hope they didn't misdiagnose ebola!)
 
 

 
Anaphylactic shock can strike. Different people, different reaction.
 

Sounds like septic shock for sure (typical bad spider bite). Bite. Infection. Gas bacteria. Toxin. Sepsis. Amputation. Sepsis. Renal exhaustion processing toxin. Shut down. Bacterial sepsis. Anaphylaxis more immediate and unlikely to target kidneys, usually airway.

 

 

 

this is not anaphylactic shock as caused by  venom.

the hospital has said nothing about "shock"

 

 

Edited July 29, 2014 by wilcopops

[mrblue]

in thailand lives the black tiger tarantula (haplopelma minax), which is one of the most aggressive tarantulas, but not among the most venomous ones.
people reacts in different ways to spider bites, but a fast right treatment can save the life.

[tardelli]

Nobody dies from spider bite that easy.

 

surely was wrong treatment.

 

 full of certificated clumsys  all around  ;

 

god save farangs here )

 

you better dont get bitten or sick in this country.

 

[arjunadawn]

Not anaphylaxis, agreed. Sepsis and septic shock often used incorrectly. He was septic (systemic infection opposed to local-leg). He did develop septic shock and went into renal shutdown. I would specifically suspect renal failure secondary to anaerobic bacterial toxin.

[wilcopops]

 

OK in summary

It wasn't a tarantula, it almost 100% certainly wasn't a brown recluse, and there's a good chance it  wasn't even a spider.

the guy died of subsequent complications, probably brought on by in-appropriate treatment either before or after he got to hospital.

We can't even say the complications arose out of the bite itself, it may have been the treatments themselves that caused the problems.

[lucjoker]

every thai knows what a tarantula is ,

children( around 10 years) use to go in the fields (check it out yourself,i did it too)

The look for small spiderwebs in the grass ,there is a small hole under them in which

the Tarantula lives. The children touch the web very softly  and the spider comes out (legs first),

then they grab the legs ,and bend them to the back of the spider,keeping the spider away from you 

because it will shed the hairs on his body (which can be very itchy )

With a little branch they crush the spiders head to kill it ,remove the fangs,bind the legs together with 

a grass leaf ,and roast it over a little fire of dead leaves .

And yes ,eat it ,tastes very good .

You can do this in any field around Nong Palai (Pattaya) and probably all over Thailand .

Nobody is scared for the bite although they try to avoid it .(hurts like a bee sting  they say)

They sell roasted  tarantulas in the streets in Pattaya. 

[realenglish1]

So sorry this fellow died as a result of the stupidity of his family. Now you know why its important to get an education

[Kabayo66]

I spent twelve years in Oklahoma, in the USA, where the brown recluse is common. The markings and symptoms reported in the original article I read were a good description of a brown recluse.

 

Regardless how unlikely it is for a brown recluse to arrive in Thailand,  it is still possible that one could have been hiding in luggage or freight aboard an aircraft or ship and survived after being off-loaded. 

 

The brown recluse bite, if treated promptly, is not deadly. But without immediate medical attention, or if the bite is in a vital area, it can be fatal. 

 

A friend of mine was bitten on his shoulder by one when he lay down in his bed. In the 15 minutes it took for him to get to the hospital, which was fortunately just across the street, his shoulder had swollen to more than double its normal size and a 3cm diameter circle of skin and muscle tissue surrounding the bite had already begun to decompose. If untreated, he would have died from infection, not the bite itself. But he was fortunate to have only suffered extreme pain and very limited use of his right arm for nearly two weeks.

[whybother]

 

 

Your chance of dying from spider bites, such as a brown recluse spider, are possible "if not treated properly".

 

As I said, the Bangkok Post reported that it was a brown recluse spider.  Some anonymous guy posting on a forum said it wasn't.  Given the quality of news reporting in Thailand, such as the OP, I would certainly take some anonymous guy's posts into consideration.

 

 

 

Your chances of eve getting any effect from a Brown Recluse are very  small....it depends on the amount of venom and your sensitivity. Many people just feel a little prick? (Notice anything?)

 

"not properly treated" is not a prerequisite for surviving spider bites.  It is in this case it was a factor, as it wasn't a brown recluse and therefore  the guy was not treated properly for a bite by whatever actually DID bite him-----probably not even a spider.

 

It isn't just the word of "some anonymous guy" - it is the information available to anyone who wants to read up on spiders.

 

Even the hospital doesn't say it was loxoscelism - which happens only occasionally and for which I believe there is no cure; it cures itself usually. - The Hospital claims a bacterial infection. So what is the connection with the brown recluse.

 

you seem to be clinging on to a mass media hysterical idea that is based largely on myth......

 

"Your chances ... are very small" ... ie it's possible.

 

I am not clinging to anything.  Even you have said that it is possible to die from a spider bite.  It is very unlikely, which I have never refuted.  

 

The Bangkok Post reported that the hospital said it was a brown recluse spider.  Reading up on spiders won't help with confirming what the hospital said.  Given what I have read, it definitely wasn't a tarantula.  I don't know what tests the hospital did, but I doubt they simply looked at the eyes of the spider to determine what it was.  Just because "some anonymous guy" on a forum said that he was part of the search for the spider and they didn't find a brown recluse doesn't rule out that it was a brown recluse.  It may be very unlikely that it was, but it doesn't rule it out.

[whybother]

 

 

OK in summary

It wasn't a tarantula, it almost 100% certainly wasn't a brown recluse, and there's a good chance it  wasn't even a spider.

the guy died of subsequent complications, probably brought on by in-appropriate treatment either before or after he got to hospital.

We can't even say the complications arose out of the bite itself, it may have been the treatments themselves that caused the problems.

 

 

How can you say with 100% certainty that it wasn't a brown recluse?

[Nampetch]

Right... let's get to the bottom of it, as there are so many theorists around here:

 

The deceased was walking, and as a snake was about to attack a spider the deceased persons leg got in the way. He flinched at the snake bite, and stood on the spider. His family came to his gasps, and saw the now deceased spider, after the snake had quietly slithered away. As spider bites are not that serious in the majority of cases, they issued herb treatment, whilst the snake venom attacked the deceased's immune system. The herb remedy, usually successful with spider bites, took no effect, so the ill-named was taken to hospital along with the  dead spider, as evidence. He was treated based upon the wrong assumptions, and subsequently passed away. The metamorphosed spider-now-snake lives on happily ever after. Simple!

 

S. Holmes. ;)

[Bigfarang1948]

I agree;tarantula bites and even brown recluse bites don't kill' I would hazard a guess that the unnecessary amputation and subsequent poor hospital care caused the death two or three days after village home remedies failed.  MY Lao friend insists that for any spider bite if you pour fresh urine on the bite it will stop the pain and possible infection,  I will be sure to keep that in mind just in case.....

 

 

 

It was not a tarantula or a brown recluse.....people simply don't die of spider bites....unless they get the wrong kind of treatment or there is some delay or complication.

Or as seems possible someone decided that "traditional medicine" was suitable.

(let's just hope they didn't misdiagnose ebola!)

 

 

 

Anaphylactic shock can strike. Different people, different reaction.
 

 

 

[CqK]

Surprised the relatives did not blame a curse or evil spirit, blaming the wrong spider seems like progress. Do they even have tarantulas here?

 

There are tarantulas in Thailand.
 

[phanangpete]

I live on an island , we have one small hospital and one doctor who apart from working in the hospital also runs a private clinic !

I have been informed that the hospital does not have any anti venom and if bitten one has to go to the mainland some 3 hr journey by boat .

What chance if bitten does one have, over half a million tourists visit here every year !

Responsible Thailand eh, or they don't care and just want the cash, i think we all know the answer !

[Rorri]

dotpoom, on 29 Jul 2014 - 11:36, said:

 

ikke, on 29 Jul 2014 - 08:53, said:

He did NOT die from tarantula bite !

He died because of the family thought to be medicinman and didn't take care in a proper way.

RIP for the guy, but totally blame to them who think with herbs and prayers to cure someone

Not according to the article above..........

 

"was placed under 24-hour watch after he had his leg which was bitten by the spider amputated in order to spare his life.
However, he said the patient developed kidney failure after the surgery and his condition continued to deteriorate with intestinal haemorrhage being detected due to low blood platelet."

 

   It seems all that could be done for this poor man was indeed done.

 

I'm surprised no one has asked whether death was due to the bite, or poor local medicine, or was it due to medical incompetence, at the hospital.... doctors bury their mistakes.

[CqK]

every thai knows what a tarantula is ,

children( around 10 years) use to go in the fields (check it out yourself,i did it too)

The look for small spiderwebs in the grass ,there is a small hole under them in which

the Tarantula lives. The children touch the web very softly  and the spider comes out (legs first),

then they grab the legs ,and bend them to the back of the spider,keeping the spider away from you 

because it will shed the hairs on his body (which can be very itchy )

With a little branch they crush the spiders head to kill it ,remove the fangs,bind the legs together with 

a grass leaf ,and roast it over a little fire of dead leaves .

And yes ,eat it ,tastes very good .

You can do this in any field around Nong Palai (Pattaya) and probably all over Thailand .

Nobody is scared for the bite although they try to avoid it .(hurts like a bee sting  they say)

They sell roasted  tarantulas in the streets in Pattaya. 

 

My husband's Thai . . . he says the same thing you do but we're in the northeast.

 

While walking dogs recently on abandoned property, he showed me two open tarantula holes in the dry earth. I shied away (I do not like and or appreicate spiders of any kind) and he told me not to worry that they were out or the holes wouldn't be visible.

 

Neighbors have said they're quite tasty.
 

[mojorison]

 

 

 
 
It was not a tarantula or a brown recluse.....people simply don't die of spider bites....unless they get the wrong kind of treatment or there is some delay or complication.
Or as seems possible someone decided that "traditional medicine" was suitable.
(let's just hope they didn't misdiagnose ebola!)
 
 

 
Anaphylactic shock can strike. Different people, different reaction.
 

Sounds like septic shock for sure (typical bad spider bite). Bite. Infection. Gas bacteria. Toxin. Sepsis. Amputation. Sepsis. Renal exhaustion processing toxin. Shut down. Bacterial sepsis. Anaphylaxis more immediate and unlikely to target kidneys, usually airway.

 

You nailed it. Probably avoidable had the correct measures been taken initially. (otherwise known as first aid.) Thais have poor first aid proficiency.

[Yann55]

 

 

Anaphylactic shock can strike. Different people, different reaction.
 

 

 

For those who call a nosebleed a nosebleed rather that epistaxis, please be informed that anaphylactic shock is the medical term for massive allergic reaction. Ah... those medical terms... aren't they impressive ?

 

[wilcopops]

 

 

 

Anaphylactic shock can strike. Different people, different reaction.
 

 

 

For those who call a nosebleed a nosebleed rather that epistaxis, please be informed that anaphylactic shock is the medical term for massive allergic reaction. Ah... those medical terms... aren't they impressive ?

 

 

no it isn't - 

[wilcopops]

 

 

 

 
 
It was not a tarantula or a brown recluse.....people simply don't die of spider bites....unless they get the wrong kind of treatment or there is some delay or complication.
Or as seems possible someone decided that "traditional medicine" was suitable.
(let's just hope they didn't misdiagnose ebola!)
 
 

 
Anaphylactic shock can strike. Different people, different reaction.
 

Sounds like septic shock for sure (typical bad spider bite). Bite. Infection. Gas bacteria. Toxin. Sepsis. Amputation. Sepsis. Renal exhaustion processing toxin. Shut down. Bacterial sepsis. Anaphylaxis more immediate and unlikely to target kidneys, usually airway.

 

You nailed it. Probably avoidable had the correct measures been taken initially. (otherwise known as first aid.) Thais have poor first aid proficiency.

 

 

 

except that it isn't caused by spider bites

[wilcopops]

 

every thai knows what a tarantula is ,

children( around 10 years) use to go in the fields (check it out yourself,i did it too)

The look for small spiderwebs in the grass ,there is a small hole under them in which

the Tarantula lives. The children touch the web very softly  and the spider comes out (legs first),

then they grab the legs ,and bend them to the back of the spider,keeping the spider away from you 

because it will shed the hairs on his body (which can be very itchy )

With a little branch they crush the spiders head to kill it ,remove the fangs,bind the legs together with 

a grass leaf ,and roast it over a little fire of dead leaves .

And yes ,eat it ,tastes very good .

You can do this in any field around Nong Palai (Pattaya) and probably all over Thailand .

Nobody is scared for the bite although they try to avoid it .(hurts like a bee sting  they say)

They sell roasted  tarantulas in the streets in Pattaya. 

 

My husband's Thai . . . he says the same thing you do but we're in the northeast.

 

While walking dogs recently on abandoned property, he showed me two open tarantula holes in the dry earth. I shied away (I do not like and or appreicate spiders of any kind) and he told me not to worry that they were out or the holes wouldn't be visible.

 

Neighbors have said they're quite tasty.
 

 

 

 

Except they're not deadly - "Earth Tiger" a species of tarantula apparently.

 

 

Edited July 29, 2014 by wilcopops

[Yann55]

 

 

 

 

Anaphylactic shock can strike. Different people, different reaction.
 

 

 

For those who call a nosebleed a nosebleed rather that epistaxis, please be informed that anaphylactic shock is the medical term for massive allergic reaction. Ah... those medical terms... aren't they impressive ?

 

 

no it isn't - 

 

 

And Wilcopops, aren't you a barrel of laughs, with the sense of humor of a German military tank ? 
 

Edited July 29, 2014 by Yann55

[dcpo]

 

He died from bacterial infection originating at the site of the bite. 

 

 

no - he 
MAY have died from a bacterial infection SUBSEQUENT to what is assumed to be a bite.

you are confusing association and causation.

 

 

 

Of course. You are correct. This is just my hypothesis based on the information I have available to me, any piece of which could be wrong.

[wilcopops]

 

dotpoom, on 29 Jul 2014 - 11:36, said:

 

ikke, on 29 Jul 2014 - 08:53, said:

He did NOT die from tarantula bite !

He died because of the family thought to be medicinman and didn't take care in a proper way.

RIP for the guy, but totally blame to them who think with herbs and prayers to cure someone

Not according to the article above..........

 

"was placed under 24-hour watch after he had his leg which was bitten by the spider amputated in order to spare his life.
However, he said the patient developed kidney failure after the surgery and his condition continued to deteriorate with intestinal haemorrhage being detected due to low blood platelet."

 

   It seems all that could be done for this poor man was indeed done.

 

I'm surprised no one has asked whether death was due to the bite, or poor local medicine, or was it due to medical incompetence, at the hospital.... doctors bury their mistakes.

 

 

 

It's been mooted several times in this thread.

[wilcopops]

 

 

 

I was part of the team who went to Phrae to search for the suspected Brown recluse. None were found. This spider is NOT in Thailand. Please make sure you know what you are talking about before speculating as it is causing quite a bit of totally unnecessary panic.

 

As for them saying he was bitten by a tarantula that is a totally new theory - which is equally as untrue. There are several tarantula species in Thailand but their venom in pretty much not poisonous to us (I say pretty much as every person is different). However this man was NOT bitten by a tarantula either. 

 

If you were on the team sent to search for this spider--then tell us more--what do you believe it was that bit this guy?
 

 

 

We do not know what bit him. The main problem was he was bitten by something. He did not get medical help and this is what has resulted in him losing his leg, and eventually his life. 

 

There was a team of 4 experts - of which I was one - and around 50 entomologists, health workers and locals. We split into 4 groups and systematically searched the homes, gardens, out buildings of all the villages in that area. We did searches during the day and at night as the Brown recluse in nocturnal. We found many spiders and collected what we found and identified them. Most of what we found we totally harmless - jumping spiders, cellar spiders, gnaphosids and spitting spiders. We did also find the brown widow, which is poisonous. However, this is NOT what bit him as their venom is a neurotoxin and would not result in necrosis of the tissues. 

 

There are many many things here that bite and if bites are not dealt with and cleaned infections are common. This is not because of the venom. 

 

 

Ok he never died from the actual bite he died from the complications it caused and he is not the first to do so.

 

.Maybe 99% of people would get over a venemous spider bite in a week but if you are that othe 1% then the chances are your numbers up.

 

The actual cause of death stated was low blood platelet which without you bleed out. Yes?

 

That without a doubt is a symtom of being bitten by a brown recluse spider which you say it wasn't

 

.You never found one but it would seem one found him.

 

You are so positive but these spiders can be found secluded, dark place, undisturbed sites indoors or outdoors. Indoors, they may be found in attics, basements, closets, ductwork, in storage boxes, shoes or behind furniture. Externally they may be found in barns, storage sheds, garages, under logs, loose stones and stacks of lumber according to a pest control company in Thailand.

 

Now maybe they have never seen one but just becaue you 50 people didn't find them doesn't mean they are not there.

 

50 people to search the entire country for something the size of a small coin that may be concentrated in a couple of areas is the laugh of the centuary.

 

If the Doc said it was a brown recluse spider as per his findings then why would you dispute that?.

 

Are we to believe the Doc is a quack or could it be you and your people aren't too good at your jobs?

 

 

 

I

 

 

 

"Ok he never died from the actual bite he died from the complications it caused" - not a forgone conclusion; the "complications may well not have been from the bite but from inappropriate actions or treatment. You are confusing association with causation.

 

therte is little doubt that the reported identification given by the media - allegedly by the doctor was completely incorrect.

 

 

"That without a doubt is a symtom of being bitten by a brown recluse spider which you say it wasn't" - this is a "my cat has 4 legs" type conclusion....there are many other illnesses that have very similar symptoms to loxoscelism, apparently it is one of the main mistakes in diagnosis.

 

Edited July 29, 2014 by wilcopops

[wilcopops]

I live on an island , we have one small hospital and one doctor who apart from working in the hospital also runs a private clinic !

I have been informed that the hospital does not have any anti venom and if bitten one has to go to the mainland some 3 hr journey by boat .

What chance if bitten does one have, over half a million tourists visit here every year !

Responsible Thailand eh, or they don't care and just want the cash, i think we all know the answer !

 

 

your chances would be very good. In fact you might even have a chance of a more accurate diagnosis than relying on just one island Doc.

 

Edited July 29, 2014 by wilcopops

[mikemac]

So sorry to hear about this story, a terrible way to die, I imagine.

 

I am petrified of spiders and have been bitten several times, itchy and burning sensation at worst. A centipede bit me while working in central Australia, worst pain I have ever felt. Also had a run-in with a scorpion in the Kimberly, burnt like hell.

We have creepy-crawlies in Australia that would frighten a bulldog out of a butcher shop.

[wilcopops]

I agree;tarantula bites and even brown recluse bites don't kill' I would hazard a guess that the unnecessary amputation and subsequent poor hospital care caused the death two or three days after village home remedies failed.  MY Lao friend insists that for any spider bite if you pour fresh urine on the bite it will stop the pain and possible infection,  I will be sure to keep that in mind just in case.....

 

 

 

It was not a tarantula or a brown recluse.....people simply don't die of spider bites....unless they get the wrong kind of treatment or there is some delay or complication.

Or as seems possible someone decided that "traditional medicine" was suitable.

(let's just hope they didn't misdiagnose ebola!)

 

 

 

Anaphylactic shock can strike. Different people, different reaction.
 

 

 

 

 

but the treatment is always the  same.......