August 29 - heavy new penalties await visa overstays: Thai Immigration

[starchild5]

 

Just a thought, but I think most of these tough new laws are not so much aimed at westerners as they stick out and by and large follow the rules. It's the people from neighbouring countries that are the real target. It's much harder to distinguish them and they are much more likely to use an fake Thai ID card, especially if they can speak Thai language. They are much more likely to work, own a business or otherwise break Thai laws if they are an overstayer. The article uses the examples of the fake Thai ID card and an example of a Chinese woman. The only mention of westerners is in the photograph and that it's been written in English.

Reality check. These laws are aimed at all non-Thais. All foreigners. Yes that includes westerners.

 

In fact, these laws are designed to make it easier to target western tourists. The police can just stop any white face and ask for passport otherwise some kind of bribe so they don't have to spend time in jail. It's the Military giving a reward to the police for their cooperation in not opposing the coup.

 

Unfortunately the police and Department of Labor, and Immigration are so incompentent at doing their jobs that it's come to this. Instead of investigating businesses suspected of operating illegally or hiring foreigners or following up the 90 day address of people who report, they either do nothing or take bribes so that illegals are still stinking up the place.  

 

 

 

Very Well Said....

[dagling]

 

 

20k baht fine if i dont show my passport or 2 years in jail? 

 

No, can`t you read? 

 

"He added that starting from August 29, foreigners who failed to produce their passports would be fined up to Bt20,000 AND jailed for up to two years." 

 

 

 So you are saying that failing to show you're passport is an automatic jail sentence to go with a fine??? I don't think so!!!!

 

 

No, I am not saying that....  Immigration Division spokesman Colonel Worawat Amornwiwat said it;-)))

[MikeN]

He added that starting from August 29, foreigners who failed to produce their passports would be fined up to Bt20,000 and jailed for up to two years.

 

So where is this Immigration officer from ? Hua Hin Immigration "clarified" that it was up to 2,000 baht for not carrying your passport, but now this guy is obviously not on the same page as Hua Hin immigration ....20,000 baht or 2,000 baht for not carrying your passport ?

[Fat Haggis]

An overstay stamp for 15 minutes? In the times I've overstayed the only thing added to my departure stamp was few amount of fine I had, never had a stamp that said "overstay" added on departure.
I was on a visa exempt and was doing 42/45 day rotations and opted to pay the fines on the occasions I did overstay and not once were the immigration anything less than friendly and polite and never did they lecture me or any other overstayer about the immigration laws either, if anything they said getting a proper visa would be cheaper than paying fines!!

There were a couple of " long term overstays" at the border this morning as in over the 90 days, all the Immigration guy there said was tough new laws coming and it's best not to overstay, too many folks are using scare mongering tactics, just to wind people up, there are some good people here who keep it real, Ubonjoe being one, and 8 followed his advice, the haters will always hate and spout their diatribe without knowing a damn thing about the people who have and do overstay.

[Emster23]

I taught English in Japan mid 80's. Being on long term visa, we were required to have their version of "passbook" with us at all times. Small, thin got from immigration. They should do same thing here for folks on long terms. Tourists etc just carry passports, but they should make some accommodation for those of us who provide healthy long term shot to economy.

[pelagictraveler]

I see the logic on wanting to stop overstayers.  Although, I think if you look at the statistics, I could be wrong, but I think a lot of the overstayers are from neighboring countries.   I highly doubt these people are going to be stopped for their passports.  I would perceive that it would probably be a fair skinned chap.  Also, the other farangs involved are the teachers.  Most of the teachers I have talked to, work with govt schools illegally.  Why is it that a govt school would hire someone illegally.   In saying, if they are asking for this type of regulation, lets hope its enforced/fair in all areas.  Although, Im not holding my breathe.  By the way, I always carry my passport with me anyways.  It doesnt bother me.  Although, If it was stolen or lost.  It would be a serious problem and lets hope theres some leniency on certain situations. 

[dagling]

He added that starting from August 29, foreigners who failed to produce their passports would be fined up to Bt20,000 and jailed for up to two years.

 

So where is this Immigration officer from ? Hua Hin Immigration "clarified" that it was up to 2,000 baht for not carrying your passport, but now this guy is obviously not on the same page as Hua Hin immigration ....20,000 baht or 2,000 baht for not carrying your passport ?

 

Do`s it matter where his from? His is the Immigration Division spokesman... Like ALL of Thailand;-)

[nick02]

stupid more and more ...

clear coruption first about police , imigration etc....

 

[John1thru10]

70,000 overstayers in one year. That puts things into perspective somewhat! Good riddance to the beach bum pot head scum bags that give the law abiding visa legal folk a bad name!

 

Last night, I got very upset at some people on this forum.  And, I said some things I shouldn't have, out of anger.  I apologize for that, to those individuals, and to the mods also.  But, this post is a perfect example of why I was so angry - I explained myself very poorly last night.  Let me use this example to explain why I think these kinds of posts are so bad to have on the forum.  This person writes, (QUOTE) "That puts things into perspective! Good riddance to beach bum pot head scum bags!"  Actually, that takes the whole situation completely OUT of perspective, and that's a very dangerous thing to do, especially at a time during a military coup and martial law.

____

 

Look at the statement with more logic, and take off the negative stereotypes, to see more clearly:

 

a)  70,000 overstayers in one year - that's a 'big number'

- that is less than 1% of all arrivals to Thailand yearly.  Less than 1% is a very small percentage.  Especially when used to justify such extreme anger.

 

b )  Of that 1% - how many of those overstays are just 2 or 3 days? - it doesn't say.

- It just tries to make the number sound as big as possible, in order to make you agree without thinking.

- They want you to imagine that stereotype ('beach bum pot head scum bags'), because then...you don't have to think about that.  That's really dangerous.

 

A lot less in perspective now already, huh?

There's more...

 

c)  Out of that less than 1%, how many of those people are Chinese, Laotian, Burmese?

- You described all those overstayers as 'beach bum pot head scum bags'.  Do you know, actually, that many of the people you see every day, and assume are Thai, are not Thai?  Many people working at food stands, for example, are not Thai  - a lot of them are Burmese, or Laotian, etc.  THAT changes the number a LOT right there !

 

I've studied history a lot.  And, I TRULY love and respect Thailand.  But, I know that it's WRONG to let negative stereotypes lead the way in these kinds of things - because that is designed to make you stop thinking, and accept things that you would normally never accept.  It only affects the 'bad' people, so no problem.  If you want to understand these numbers, then you have to imagine it is about a person who you DO care about.  Because THAT is who it is going to affect.   Your friend comes to visit you, and thinks it's ok (as it used to be) to catch their plane 2 days late, and pay the fine?  Surprise: you're both stopped on the street while you're saying goodbye.  Now, that person is suddenly a 'pot head scum bag', and someone else here is writing 'about time that scum bag went to jail where they belong!'  Someone's work visa runs out, and they are stuck a week before getting a new one, because now they've made that harder to arrange at the same time?  Hello 'pot head scum bag.  Don't have 20,000 baht on you at this second?  Now you deserve to go to prison.' 

 

Do you get it?  You really have to think about the people it will affect, as someone who you DO care about.  Including yourself, eventually.  Because that's who it's really about.  Obey the laws of a country as best you can. Of course.  Be a benefit to the country you want to call home - of courese!  BUT...NEVER let your anger and negative stereotypes trick you into being part of an angry mob.  Because then you don't even know what you're shouting for anymore.

 

I know that this is long, but it's important. And I'll say one more thing, and then I'm done:

 

Every day here for months now, someone has been justifying all of this, by saying 'The visa rules are easy to comply with, so there's no excuse!'  As I thought to myself at the beginning of this: Those rules are also becoming much more complicated and confusing, at the same time.  And THAT's where the problem comes in.  You can't leave from there anymore, now you have to do that instead.  I don't care if you didn't know, that's not an excuse.  You didn't report where you were, after you left for 24 hours - why are you 'trying to hide from police, you must be a 'scum bag'. Only scum bags hide from police!'

 

You should really think about this more carefully, before using negative stereotypes about who you imagine it will be a problem for.

Edited July 31, 2014 by John1thru10

[BlackJack]

why not just bar code our arms and be done with it

police could just scan our bars and arrest or free

simple

 

[Bernard Flint]

I see the logic on wanting to stop overstayers.  Although, I think if you look at the statistics, I could be wrong, but I think a lot of the overstayers are from neighboring countries.   I highly doubt these people are going to be stopped for their passports.  I would perceive that it would probably be a fair skinned chap.  Also, the other farangs involved are the teachers.  Most of the teachers I have talked to, work with govt schools illegally.  Why is it that a govt school would hire someone illegally.   In saying, if they are asking for this type of regulation, lets hope its enforced/fair in all areas.  Although, Im not holding my breathe.  By the way, I always carry my passport with me anyways.  It doesnt bother me.  Although, If it was stolen or lost.  It would be a serious problem and lets hope theres some leniency on certain situations. 

 

 

Dont talk about teachers for god,s sake you wil get warned and not be able to post

[BudRight]

Some of the replies to this topic make me laugh.
The majority of these people would love the authorities in their home country to have these powers to keep down illegal immigrants,but hey when it could affect them it becomes a harsh penalty.
 
This is Thailand it belongs to the Thai people if you dont like their laws get the hell out, there are many many westerners who would probably like to be deported because their passports have run out because they have been here so long and have no way of leaving.
 
There are many legal ways of staying long term if you search them out and invest a bit of time and money.
 
Be assured it isnt only the Thai authorities that are allegedly accepting bribes and kickbacks it happens in all societies.

Please just YOU carry your passport everywhere you go or don't.

1. If you do you will eventually lose it or it will be stolen.

2. If you don't you'll be imprisoned or extorted.

Just pick one and spare us the high and mighty crap.

[Rumblecat]

Well, that's not really true is it. Bit like saying "if you carry your wallet you will either lose it or get it stolen". That's not a fact. I mean, I agree it's a total hassle but once people start spouting silly nonsense like that, the discussion just spirals down and down. 

[Borzandy]

The next stage is to kill people without a visa....be careful.

[Globaleyes]

Does anyone know what the penalty for a Thai is, for not carrying their ID card? Is it also B20 000 and / or 2 years in jail?

[96tehtarp]

 

70,000 overstayers in one year. That puts things into perspective somewhat! Good riddance to the beach bum pot head scum bags that give the law abiding visa legal folk a bad name!

 

Last night, I got very upset at some people on this forum.  And, I said some things I shouldn't have, out of anger.  I apologize for that, to those individuals, and to the mods also.  But, this post is a perfect example of why I was so angry - I explained myself very poorly last night.  Let me use this example to explain why I think these kinds of posts are so bad to have on the forum.  This person writes, (QUOTE) "That puts things into perspective! Good riddance to beach bum pot head scum bags!"  Actually, that takes the whole situation completely OUT of perspective, and that's a VERY thing to do, especially at a time during a military coup and martial law:

 

Try not to get upset. This is only an internet forum 

 

The post you quote above by iancnx completely ignores the fact that many of the 70k overstays were actually encouraged by Thai immigration officials.

 

All that has changed now is the mood in Thailand. It's a Law and Order Crusade.

 

I agree with most of your post.

[Tanlic]

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't a stolen passport something a criminal can sell?

 

If it is that should see muggings go though the roof.

 

a fine and possibly 2 years in jail for not carrying your passport? While a Thai get's 6 months for beating the crap out of some old guy and stealing his passport.

 

I can just see the papers if some respectable American lady gets jailed up because she forgot hers.

 

The last thing Thai tourism needs is bad publicity but the way they are heading with this visa nonsense it's inevitable it will blow up in their face and another few billion baht will end up in some other countries paocket.

 

Increasing fines would have been a strong enough deterant without threatening to ban and jail people which I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

 

[Tchooptip]

 

Last month I was stopped 3 times driving Udon Thani - Khon Kaen and at one road block had to go to the ' payments table ' manned by a Major and a Sub-Lieutenant.

 

The major was quite happy with the photo-copy of my passport but did ask why I didn't carry the original so I explained my fear of losing it and the resulting ball ache of a hassle.  He was amazed that my current document was obtained via the Hong Kong route and had cost over Bt.8,000 and his amazement grew when I told him about the new system which would require me to go to BKK twice.

 

All he could say was " Crazy " and when driving away I had quite a chuckle at the thought of a Thai official describing another country's bureaucracy in such terms.

Incidentally I never did find out why I was sent to the table other than possibly the language problem. Ii didn't have a licence but the Major said he wasn't gong to fine me !

The biggest problem was everyone freaking out because I have a vinyl cover on the flatbed of my pickup and needing to have a peek to see what I was carrying,  only boring emergency equipment I'm afraid.

This visa/overstay subject has been done to death in the Thai visas section above.

I would imagine the reason you were 'released' without problems NKK was the fact that you were probably polite, smiled and produced a photo copy of your passport and visa and gave a credible explanation why you did not have your actual passport at hand. Much depends on attitude in this country and becoming belligerent only exacerbates any problems.

I have only lived here 14 years and never been asked for my passport. Whenever stopped by police road checks, I have never been asked for my Thai drivers license either.

A lot of people are panicking or angry and in some cases that is justified, but for the large majority of people who are legally resident in Thailand on proper visas and  extension of stay, being polite and co-operative when stopped by the authorities will go a long way to saving any hassles.

 

 Much depends on attitude in this country + being polite and co-operative when stopped by the authorities will go a long way to saving any hassles.

 

You are so right!

 

As far as I am concern, I can say most of the time I am smiling, always been like that,  but in my country sometimes it seems to me, people are thinking, why does he smile, what does he wants from me? Nothing of course!  its in the family every one are good tempered and smiling people. In my country with a police officer or a civil servant if smiling and being polite little chance it will change anything, in Thailand probably yes!

[SICHONSTEVE]

 

 

 

20k baht fine if i dont show my passport or 2 years in jail? 

 

No, can`t you read? 

 

"He added that starting from August 29, foreigners who failed to produce their passports would be fined up to Bt20,000 AND jailed for up to two years." 

 

 

 So you are saying that failing to show you're passport is an automatic jail sentence to go with a fine??? I don't think so!!!!

 

 

No, I am not saying that....  Immigration Division spokesman Colonel Worawat Amornwiwat said it;-)))

 

 

 What is you're interpretation of this then?

 

 Do you think that in what he says (you highlight and emphasise the AND in you're post by the way) he means that you go to jail as well!!

 

 Don't forget, this is if you don't have your passport on you when challenged to produce it no matter whether everything is legit or not.

[Alwyn]

70,000 overstayers in one year. That puts things into perspective somewhat! Good riddance to the beach bum pot head scum bags that give the law abiding visa legal folk a bad name!

You really think YOU personally are getting a bad name because of this? My my you are some kind of paranoid weirdo aren't you? The truth is that this number represents one quarter of one percent of the annual tourist numbers. The one person that was used as an example in the article was a Chinese woman who came to work, hardly a beach bum scum bag is it? I would be interested to know what you think the demographic of a "beach bum pot head scum bag" is and why you think they are the 70,000 overstays each year? It seems from reading previous posts that the high percentage of overstay culprits are construction workers from Laos, Burma, Cambodia etc. I would guess from your name here you're based in Chiang Mai so even if there were a mass of these beach bum scum bags (as you so quaintly describe the tourists) would hardly impact you would it? Anyway, it's nice to know that there are still enlightened people like you with your "live and let live" attitude in this day and age.

[ThaiAtoZ]

A country that is begging for tourist to come back and have promised to make Bangkok the number 1 destination in the world again - I'm left wondering how is this going to help?  I can already see what this will lead too next - those big jail trucks and 50 police sitting out front of Soi Cowboy, Emporium, Nana area, etc. stopping every non Thai looking person.  Pay the police 20,000 baht or go to jail for up to 2 years.  Everyone knows that the two police stations covering these area are famous for shake downs, pat-downs and piss tests, now the law will make it even easier for these lazy thieves to collect money??!!  Perfect, now they can stop all the hard work in doing pat-downs and just say "Show me your passport or show me the money!"  I'm guessing a single police officer could get as many as 6 tourist an hour if camped out in the right place, say Soi Cowboy - so an income of 120,000 baht per hour - or a million baht per day.  Better yet, hang out in front of top family site seeing areas - instead of just a single person - you can nail a family of 4! 

[soalbundy]

 

Just a thought, but I think most of these tough new laws are not so much aimed at westerners as they stick out and by and large follow the rules. It's the people from neighbouring countries that are the real target. It's much harder to distinguish them and they are much more likely to use an fake Thai ID card, especially if they can speak Thai language. They are much more likely to work, own a business or otherwise break Thai laws if they are an overstayer. The article uses the examples of the fake Thai ID card and an example of a Chinese woman. The only mention of westerners is in the photograph and that it's been written in English.

Reality check. These laws are aimed at all non-Thais. All foreigners. Yes that includes westerners.

 

In fact, these laws are designed to make it easier to target western tourists. The police can just stop any white face in the street or beach and ask for their passport otherwise some kind of bribe so they don't have to spend time in jail. Unofficially, it's the Military giving a reward to the Police for their cooperation in not opposing the coup.

 

Unfortunately the Police and Department of Labor, and Immigration are so incompentent at doing their jobs that it's come to this. Instead of doing their jobs investigating businesses suspected of operating illegally or hiring foreigners or following up the 90 day address of people who report, they either do nothing or take bribes so that illegals are still stinking up the place.  

 

The police and the immigration are running scared as told to meby a Lt. Col. of police and an immigration officer, when i did my 90 day report,he went through the passport very thoroughly instead of just changing the report paper in the passport as he usually does,i asked if there was a problem with my passport,he said no but everyone is scared of making a mistake as military officers come round every day checking their work and this is in a small town in Isaan

[mercman24]

what about a photo copy of passport ?? any news about that? i always carry a copy in a plastic pouch and what about the 24 hour rule to produce ? (or was this never a rule) ??, and 20,000 i suppose this is to compensate for the few hudred baht lost "tea money" every time you got stopped for something  trivial,  a bit o.t.t.

[Bernard Flint]

Well, that's not really true is it. Bit like saying "if you carry your wallet you will either lose it or get it stolen". That's not a fact. I mean, I agree it's a total hassle but once people start spouting silly nonsense like that, the discussion just spirals down and down. 

 

 

I bet the moaners have huge smart phones in their pockets, valued at 25,000+ baht and leave on the bar counter, ironic ehhhhhh.

[Tchooptip]

I don't carry the passport,just copies of it.Never had A problem.

Yes your sentence read: Never had a problem, not will never have ... Not same Sir ! 

[Bernard Flint]

what about a photo copy of passport ?? any news about that? i always carry a copy in a plastic pouch and what about the 24 hour rule to produce ? (or was this never a rule) ??, and 20,000 i suppose this is to compensate for the few hudred baht lost "tea money" every time you got stopped for something  trivial,  a bit o.t.t.

Nothing to do with tea money, but i agree that one should be allowed to have 24 hours to produce at cop shop or immigration, big queue though, no doubt 

[thaibeachlovers]

this country is getting more ridicules by the day

 

He added that starting from August 29, foreigners who failed to produce their passports would be fined up to Bt20,000 and jailed for up to two years.

 

 

 

 

 

The western press will love this! It will only take ONE case of a western tourist, especially if a sympathetic one ( mother of 5 ) to be jailed, and the only sound Thais will hear from western package tourists and flashpackers will be silence, as they vote with their feet to go elsewhere.

I wonder if all those expats boasting how they only carry a photocopy of the PP will still do that?

I'll be getting used to wearing my money belt from now on.

[Rumblecat]

I think something been lost in translation- I think (and who knows) the jail and 20,000 baht thing is for a total failure to produce a passport - in overstaying terms- not because you'd left it at home on the table when you went out or that you've lost it and are waiting for a new one to arrive etc. 

[DrTuner]

Nothing says "Welcome to Thailand" better than "You pay 20000 baht or go jail now".

[thore59]

For me it looks like someone in this nice country want to show that they don`t need us from the western countries. They try to make everything more and more difficult for us and at the same time they make it more and more easier for the Chinese to come here (no visa from tomorrow untill november). I only guess who they want to come here for the future. Everyday I  ask my self: What will the next step be from these people who run this country?