Gaza school strike 'criminal' - UN

[Jingthing]

It is clearly in Hamas best interest to inflate casualties and especially to inflate civilian casualties. So while it is obviously true that there are many casualties in Gaza, there is no reason to consider the statistics provided to be particularly accurate.

[Morch]

Why are Hamas terrorists . They are fighting against the illegal occcupation of thier land. Just like the French resistance fought the Nazi occuption.

Hamas would be fighting anyway...look at ISIS next door.

Islamists will never stop fighting....in the end they will turn against each other

That's the nature of the beast.

..programmed to self-destruct in the end.

Hypothetical nonsense.

Give peace a chance when Hamas offers the olive branch

http://www.haaretz.com/news/haniyeh-hamas-willing-to-accept-palestinian-state-with-1967-borders-1.256915

Not getting tired with posting that same link again? Oh well...

Hamas does not offer peace, not even mentioned in the article.

Hamas does not even offer it directly to Israel, nor recognizes Israel's right to exist.

The 1967 applies to a Palestinian state, it says nothing about who lies over the border.

The meaning of truce in this context is not peace, but a respite from fighting which would be renewed

when condition are favorable

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudna

Here's Hamas leader speaking on the occasion of the organization's 25th anniversary:

GAZA CITY — Khaled Meshal, the political leader of Hamas, gave a defiant speech on Saturday, vowing to build an Islamic Palestinian state on all the land of Israel, the West Bank and the Gaza

Speaking before tens of thousands of supporters to celebrate the 25th anniversary of the founding of Hamas, Mr. Meshal said the Jewish state would be wiped away through “resistance,” or military action. “The state will come from resistance, not negotiation,” he said. “Liberation first, then statehood.”

His voice rising to a shout, Mr. Meshal said: “Palestine is ours from the river to the sea and from the south to the north. There will be no concession on any inch of the land.” He vowed that all Palestinian refugees and their descendants would one day return to their original homes in what is now Israel.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/09/world/middleeast/khaled-meshal-hamas-leader-delivers-defiant-speech-on-anniversary-celebration.html?pagewanted=all

[Morch]

Of course. When a terrorist group shoots thousands of rockets at civilian areas in a sovereign country they are going to be stopped. Any country on earth would be doing the same thing.

Still using images directly from the IDF Spokesperson's twitter eh?

IDF biased but Hamas' (comical) mouthpieces totally credible.

Israel is not going anywhere..a perpetual thorn on the side of liberals infidels

Correct..Israel is not going anywhere ....until it makes its enemies its friends, and under a just peace agreement establishes permanent secure recognized borders.

Israel does have peace agreements with two of its neighbors (Egypt and Jordan).

Lebanon and Syria are in no position to sign anything with anyone right now.

[englishoak]

Israel is losing support and sympathy rapidly and yet still it continues with this folly.... buffering zone effectively limits space for the 1.7 m even further.

A new generation worldwide is seeing all and it will judge accordingly as history does.

What is being done at the moment is in the long run going to be far more dangerous to its own security and support in the future.

Israel, history is knocking at your door yet you fail to see you have become what you ran away to escape.

What a shame it learnt nothing from the past but to do to others what it once was a victim of. So sad, so typical, so wrong.

[joepublic]

THE TRUTH ABOUT WHAT THE ZIONISTS REALLY THINK

An Israeli official has called for concentration camps in Gaza and ‘the conquest of the entire Gaza Strip, and annihilation of all fighting forces and their supporters’.

Moshe Feiglin, Deputy Speaker of the Israeli Knesset and member of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s ruling Likud Party, posted the inflammatory message on his Facebook page at the weekend.

Can anyone suggest a label for a Jew that wants to have concentration camps for another people?

Edited August 4, 2014 by joepublic

[Morch]

Amazing how blatant one sided repoting is going on here, when Hamas broke the humanitarian truce barely

2 hours after it started, killed 2 soldiers and kidnapped one to the condemnation of every one around the world,

nothing was mentioned in these forums, and new, when 10 people die after an incident that is still being

disputed, that get a mention... wow..

Hamas broke the humanitarian truce? Link please!

The fact was the truce was never a truce at all.

Hamas AGREED to it. That makes it a truce. They also claimed responsibility for kidnapping the soldier and later tried to walk it back.

Hamas admitted today its soldiers likely captured an Israeli officer during a deadly ambush, but said the attack was executed an hour before a mutually agreed 72-hour humanitarian cease-fire set in.

Israel and the international community, on the other hand, claim the incident took place over an hour after the UN-backed truce took effect, and blamed Hamas for the collapse of the cease-fire, which was meant to provide humanitarian relief to Gaza's population of 1.8 million.

https://news.vice.com/article/hamas-shifts-blame-for-missing-israeli-soldier

From what I have read, Hamas soldiers attacked through a tunnel, killed a couple IDF, made off with the soldier in question and were subsequently chased. Firefight ensues and the IDF soldier is killed. If I am wrong, let me know, but that is what I have read. Instead of saying "we think he was killed, maybe he was captured", Israel saw an opportunity and came out and said "a soldier has been kidnapped by terrorists" and then launch an indiscriminate shelling revenge attack. They misled the world when they knew he was dead already...akin to what they did when they knew the 3 teens were dead already.

""We lost contact with the [Hamas] troops deployed in the ambush and assess that these troops were probably killed by enemy bombardment, including the soldier said to be missing — presuming that our troops took him prisoner during the clash," the statement read."

So Hamas troops never completed the capture....they were killed along with the soldier in the clash. The kidnapping claim was BS.

Not BS, just took the IDF some time to get a handle on what happened.

There is certainly some panic about another kidnapping happening.

The initial communications from both Hamas and the IDF regarding the attack were a bit confused.

The soldier's body was not found, and a local Hamas implied he was captured, later on higher up Hamas leaders

said they have no information on this, and things continued to be muddied for a while longer.

Chalk it up to fog of battle, not to conspiracies.

The attack itself did happen after the ceasefire was on, though.

[Morch]

Yes , three hundred kids should take responsibility for Hamas and their actions shouldn't they!!.

No Hamas should take responsibility for placing them in harms way and encouraging their parents to use them as human shields.If they had stopped firing those rockets at Israel all those kids would be alive today.

After a 57 second warning families ran for their lives to Israeli designated safe zones, and they still murdered them.

They had stopped firing rockets despite Israeli provocation with its targeted assassinations of 2 teenagers in Beitunia, a harmless fisherman trying to feed his family, and a Hamas member simply riding his motorcycle .

The rockets had reduced to a trickle ONE each week in preceding 3 weeks that fell harmlessly in open ground 23 May, I June, 11 June. The proof is here that you repeatedly ignore.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2014

Israel started this present round of violence on a pure pretext and you know it....it's a great vote winner.

Debunking your simplified and nitpicked version of events over and over again is rather boring.

Gladly, this variant includes a learned conclusion on the electoral effects of the current fighting.

Would you care to expand your thoughts on that? Perhaps give a recent example of any similar

operation amounting to being a "great vote winner"? Which party is supposed to benefit from

this? Do the perceived results of the operation not effect the "great vote winning" part?

And last but not least - are there any elections on the horizon?

[Morch]

So Hamas troops never completed the capture....they were killed along with the soldier in the clash. The kidnapping claim was BS.

Then they should not have claimed responsibility for it. Some people actually believe their lies.

Most Jewish TV members are just commenting this conflict as entertainment.

For shure, non of you have ever be involved in a conflict from and for Israel.

Thanks anyway for sharing you balcony wisdom and virtual intifada.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

And you know this....how?

There are at least two members I know which are currently in Israel.

There are more than that who served in the IDF at their time.

Even more who lived in country.

On the other hand, I think that most posters opposing Israel have never set foot in either Palestine or

Israel, and probably were never even in the Middle East.

[Jingthing]

THE TRUTH ABOUT WHAT THE ZIONISTS REALLY THINK

An Israeli official has called for concentration camps in Gaza and ‘the conquest of the entire Gaza Strip, and annihilation of all fighting forces and their supporters’.

Moshe Feiglin, Deputy Speaker of the Israeli Knesset and member of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s ruling Likud Party, posted the inflammatory message on his Facebook page at the weekend.

Can anyone suggest a label for a Jew that wants to have concentration camps for another people?

Far right extremist fascist.

Can someone provide a source for this news story from a non-propaganda source? In future, please do not post such things without providing a link. Thank you.

I saw mention of this on several anti-Israel propaganda sites.

I also saw this:

On August 4th, 2014, the Daily Mail newspaper alleged that Feiglin had called for concentration camps in Gaza, 'the conquest of the entire Gaza Strip, and annihilation of all fighting forces and their supporters' and also for shipping the people living in Gaza across the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moshe_Feiglin

But the Daily Mail is blocked in Thailand so I can't read that source.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Jingthing

[Jay Sata]

The Daily Mail can be accessed via a proxy server in Thailand

here is the item and yes it is true

An Israeli official has called for concentration camps in Gaza and ‘the conquest of the entire Gaza Strip, and annihilation of all fighting forces and their supporters’.

Moshe Feiglin, Deputy Speaker of the Israeli Knesset and member of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s ruling Likud Party, posted the inflammatory message on his Facebook page at the weekend.

He lays out a detailed plan for the destruction of Gaza - which includes shipping its residents across the world - in a letter he addressed to the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

The message, which received more than 2,000 likes on his page, lists four action points which he wants to be enforced as soon as possible.

Feiglin details the first one as 'defining the enemy' and states: 'The strategic enemy is extremist Arab Islam in all its varieties, from Iran to Gaza, which seeks to annihilate Israel in its entirety. The immediate enemy is Hamas. (Not the tunnels, not the rockets, but Hamas.)'

He says another important part of his plan is the 'conquest of the entire Gaza Strip, and annihilation of all fighting forces and their supporters.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2715466/Israeli-official-calls-concentration-camps-Gaza-conquest-entire-Gaza-Strip-annihilation-fighting-forces-supporters.html#ixzz39Si3z1Wp
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[Morch]

These grubs were alledgedly targeting 3 enemy combatants on a motorcycle. Is it just coincidence that they decided to engage the target in extreme close proximity to a school? The truth is, no. They don"t care.

Ok I see...Hamas can fire its rockets blindly into Israel but when Israel does we scream in outrage.

Double standards....make that triple for good measure!

Schools,mosques and hospitals,because they are perceived to be 'safe' ,are used by Hamas as storage and refuge places for its fighters.

Israel occasionally has to target them.

They know it will be a PR disaster but they have no choice.

Schools;

- 3 incidents of UN personnel finding rockets caches at schools that were not being used. The UN found them, reported it publicly, and did what they could to get rid of the rockets. No justification for bombing the schools.

Hospitals;

- There were reports from the IDF that they saw militant activity 100 meters from a hospital. There were other reports that hospital's were used by Hamas for interviews and planning. All vague reports, but lets assume true. Does that justify bombing a hospital?

There has not been a single report that rockets were being launched directly from schools or hospitals. So why are they being directly hit?

How do you mean "did what it could"? Basically, it seems like on all occasions the rockets ended back with Hamas.

The only thing UNRWA can do it report it, then call the local police which is essentially as good as handing them back.

I concur that this does not give a carte blanche for the IDF to attack schools. It does, however, indicate that there is a

problem on this front - UNRWA cannot monitor its own facilities (yes, they did find the rockets, but previously denied

this sort of things took place), and even when found cannot do much but hand them over. Maybe not all of Israel's

allegation about Hamas using public buildings for its needs are incorrect?

There's this clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu-e5qWXx-k (one day I will learn to embed these), and reports

that Hamas shoots at photographers looking the wrong way (notice how we only see civilians on news and clips?).

Does it mean open hunting season on hospitals? Of course not.

Does it mean hospitals are not used by Hamas? Of course not.

This is the sort of thing most Western countries do not normally ever deal with.

Does put some moral strain on Israel, but truly, do most of the Western democracies condemning Israel's actions

face similar situations and dilemmas? And do they act differently? Not asking this as a justification, wondering how

the measuring stick is decided upon.

[Jingthing]

Things have not changed since they stood and watched Jesus get nailed to a cross

Its endemic in their genes to assault anyone who shows criticism of the Israeli Leaders,and they harness thousands of people in the Jewish Defense League throughout the world, to vigorously contact media sources world wide and aim their insults towards anyone who now detest Israel

.

I think there may be a few on here.

Why are you posting Judeophobic trash here? Was that your own original writing, or if not, where did you find that hate speech?

Breaking down your filthy post, I will respond:

1. Christians have used the "killed our Saviour" meme for thousands of years to rationalize persecution and murder of Jews. Yet you bring that up as if it has anything to do with current Israeli politics.

2. "In their genes" is unadulterated RACISM.

3. Yes, the JDL is a militant right wing Jewish organization. Jews have some of those, also moderate ones, also very left wing ones. Like any OTHER people.

If anyone doubts there isn't some hard core hate speech being posted here in the guise of criticizing Israel, even though there have been several absurd denials ... please don't ever doubt it and please do not ever deny it again.

Again, it is one thing being critical of Israeli politics and policies, it is another to be motivated by racism, See above post.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Jingthing

[Jay Sata]

Why do you defend the warmonger Netanyahu who has has slaughtered nearly 2000 Palestinian civilians in an act labeled war crimes.

Noam Chomsky, the renowned Jewish American thinker, says Israel has committed “a major war crime” as it continues to attack the besieged Gaza Strip.

Israel has been pressing ahead with heavy offensive on Gaza amid international condemnation to stop the bloody onslaught which has claimed the lives of at least 1,700 Palestinians. More than 9,000 people have also been injured since the beginning of the aggression nearly four weeks ago.

Chomsky told Press TV that Israel is much worse than the former apartheid regime in South Africa.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/08/02/373806/chomsky-israel-committed-war-crimes/

[Jay Sata]

Things have not changed since they stood and watched Jesus get nailed to a cross

Its endemic in their genes to assault anyone who shows criticism of the Israeli Leaders,and they harness thousands of people in the Jewish Defense League throughout the world, to vigorously contact media sources world wide and aim their insults towards anyone who now detest Israel

.

I think there may be a few on here.

Why are you posting Judeophobic trash here? Was that your own original writing, or if not, where did you find that hate speech?

Breaking down your filthy post, I will respond:

1. Christians have used the "killed our Saviour" meme for thousands of years to rationalize persecution and murder of Jews. Yet you bring that up as if it has anything to do with current Israeli politics.

2. "In their genes" is unadulterated RACISM.

3. Yes, the JDL is a militant right wing Jewish organization. Jews have some of those, also moderate ones, also very left wing ones. Like any OTHER people.

If anyone doubts there isn't some hard core hate speech being posted here in the guise of criticizing Israel, even though there have been several absurd denials ... please don't ever doubt it and please do not ever deny it again.

Again, it is one thing being critical of Israeli politics and policies, it is another to be motivated by racism, See above post.

There is nothing racist about the right wing Israeli government consigning the Palestinian people to a miserable existence?

Denying women and children basic human rights.

Giving their land in the West Bank to immigrant 'settler's?

The truth hurts my friend/

The Jewish Defence League was classified as "a right-wing terrorist group" by the FBI in 2001

So spout as much anti Hamas bile as you like but accept there are extremists in the Jewish camp.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Jay Sata

[Jingthing]

Why do you defend the warmonger Netanyahu who has has slaughtered nearly 2000 Palestinian civilians in an act labeled war crimes.

Noam Chomsky, the renowned Jewish American thinker, says Israel has committed “a major war crime” as it continues to attack the besieged Gaza Strip.

Israel has been pressing ahead with heavy offensive on Gaza amid international condemnation to stop the bloody onslaught which has claimed the lives of at least 1,700 Palestinians. More than 9,000 people have also been injured since the beginning of the aggression nearly four weeks ago.

Chomsky told Press TV that Israel is much worse than the former apartheid regime in South Africa.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/08/02/373806/chomsky-israel-committed-war-crimes/

I see a pattern here on this forum. and now in the world.

People who disagree with Israeli actions in Israel, people who were obviously already infected with Judeophobia, are now feeling that it's open season now for them to publicly act out their Judeophobia. Whether in anti-Jewish racist posts on internet forums and social media or actual violent attacks on Jewish people. I guess I'm stating the obvious but in case others aren't getting this, it's happening.

[sustento]

Why do you defend the warmonger Netanyahu who has has slaughtered nearly 2000 Palestinian civilians in an act labeled war crimes.

Noam Chomsky, the renowned Jewish American thinker, says Israel has committed “a major war crime” as it continues to attack the besieged Gaza Strip.

Israel has been pressing ahead with heavy offensive on Gaza amid international condemnation to stop the bloody onslaught which has claimed the lives of at least 1,700 Palestinians. More than 9,000 people have also been injured since the beginning of the aggression nearly four weeks ago.

Chomsky told Press TV that Israel is much worse than the former apartheid regime in South Africa.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/08/02/373806/chomsky-israel-committed-war-crimes/

I see a pattern here on this forum. and now in the world.

People who disagree with Israeli actions in Israel, people who were obviously already infected with Judeophobia, are now feeling that it's open season now for them to publicly act out their Judeophobia. Whether in anti-Jewish racist posts on internet forums and social media or actual violent attacks on Jewish people. I guess I'm stating the obvious but in case others aren't getting this, it's happening.

[Jingthing]

That's right, coffee boy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitic_incidents_during_the_Gaza_War

A spokesman for the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) stated that "We have always seen a link between violence in the Middle East to antisemitism but we have never seen anything like what we are seeing now.... Not on this scale, not in this intensity."^[9] "It has been the worst we've ever seen."^[

[Morch]

Israels enemies are not in truth the Arab states or the Palestinians

The average Israeli would do well to view the rabid Zionists as the greatest threat to Israels and the average Israelis existence.

Doubtful that you can actually characterize the "average Israeli". And Zionism does not mean the same thing

for Israelis as it does for most critics of Israel posting here. While the common way Zionism seem to be taken

for some on TVF got to do with right-wing/racist/expansionist ideals, for most Israelis (barring Orthodox Jews

and Arabs) it nowadays simply means something like "supporting Israel's right to exist, and right for its land".

There are left wing Zionists (who will be pro-peace and all for scrapping the illegal settlements from the West

Bank), and there will be right wing Zionists (who will want to keep a hold on the West Bank, even without a

clear idea of how to make this work). In between, there's a whole range of opinions and positions. Really not

as two dimensional as some here try to portray.

With regard to the fighting in the Gaza Strip, this is an Israeli "thing" - when something is considered by the

general public as amounting to be a threat for national security, or any other major crisis - the people come

together in support. This explains the high support rates this operation currently wins from the Jewish public.

The catch is that if things drag on, go wrong, or the perception of the emergency changes - this can be just

as well be replaced by resentment, dissent and breakdown of the temporary national consensus.

In my opinion, this latter bit is up and coming in short order. There are already voices calling for investigations

of both the military and political system (no, not that much over moral issues, but there could be some payback

anyway). The whole thing sort of ended without any clear positive result on the Israeli side (at least, not much

different than previous times, although spin attempts are expected). Several other issues, but lets keep it at

that.

How far will this go? Hard to tell, but wouldn't expect too much. Government may lose some support, at least

temporarily, than someone from the other side will do something, the Israeli government will respond and so

on and so forth. If the sides could get a few baby steps further down the road for peace this would still be a

result.

[Morch]

Off course, as long the USA is supporting that Zionist State, nothing will ever change.

Now, not quite sure what the BBC's correspondents report but CH4 in the UK had a very short but

pretty enlightening report.

www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152161404790946&set=vb.531505945&type=2&theater

Yes sadly the USA ...no matter under what president.... continues to back what most any American citizen

would not. The USA has basically vetoed/blocked any UN sanctions against Israel since the 1950's

But this type of support of such actions is not what the USA once stood for.

Nor would the US tolerate it from any other country. I believe if put to a vote of its citizens the USA

government would not be allowed to continue this unjustified support.

That was a heart wrenching video you linked.

I also did not realize the average age there was so young.

With regard to the USA exercising its veto power in the UN Security Council, this may explain some of the underlying

principles: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negroponte_doctrine

[Jay Sata]

Nero fiddled while Rome burned.

Except here we have civilians exterminated by Israeli bombs and artillery supplied by the USA.

If Russia was doing this there would be an outcry however the anti jew/holocaust guilt card is always played to defend

whatever evil Israel dishes out to the poor Palestinians who have live in the Gaza ghetto for years.

The world is more focused and modern media is such that today's generation will not accept the propaganda.

You cannot hide the pictures of death from the bloody hand of Netanyahu.

[Jingthing]

Nero fiddled while Rome burned.

Except here we have civilians exterminated by Israeli bombs and artillery supplied by the USA.

If Russia was doing this there would be an outcry however the anti jew/holocaust guilt card is always played to defend

whatever evil Israel dishes out to the poor Palestinians who have live in the Gaza ghetto for years.

The world is more focused and modern media is such that today's generation will not accept the propaganda.

You cannot hide the pictures of death from the bloody hand of Netanyahu.

I still do not think you have in any way justified the anti-Jewish hate speech you have posted here (and in other threads). I think your position would have more moral authority if you dropped the Judeophobic racism.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Jingthing

[Morch]

Of course. When a terrorist group shoots thousands of rockets at civilian areas in a sovereign country they are going to be stopped. Any country on earth would be doing the same thing.

Still using images directly from the IDF Spokesperson's twitter eh?

Yep. Most people realize that Hamas are a terrorist group and that the IDF are soldiers protecting their country. I'm not too worried about what people like you think.

Afraid not - Hamas are democratically elected, and the IDF are terrorists who use chemical weapon like phosphorus. While you may not worry about what the civilized world thinks, its is clear that you don't think full stop, as its easier to reach for IDF propaganda.

While world public opinion is certainly against Israel, and responsive to the plight of the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip,

there is not that much open support for Hamas. Not even among most Arab and Muslim countries. Relatively quiet on

this front.

Democratically elected...well, so was the PTP. What the elected do after they are elected counts for something as well.

[Jay Sata]

Hamas has not killed 1800 Jewish women and children in the last few weeks.

The Palestinian civilians have died from missiles and rockets built and funded by the USA and delivered indiscriminately by Israel.

The US state department,UK Prime Minister, United nations and the French foreign minister have condemned the Israeli action.

source http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28637577

Edited August 4, 2014 by Jay Sata

[Jingthing]

Hamas has not killed 1800 Jewish women and children in the last few weeks.

...

Not for want of trying. Based on their ideology, they would murder millions of Jews if they had the capability. But happily, they do not.

BTW, of the dead in Gaza not all are women and children or non-Hamas ... so you might want to edit your propaganda a tad.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Hamas has not killed 1800 Jewish women and children in the last few weeks.

...

Not for want of trying. Based on their ideology, they would murder millions of Jews if they had the capability. But happily, they do not.

But you will nor apologise for the deaths of those civilians who leave their blood on the hands of Netanyahu and his right wing warmongers\/

You want me personally to apologize? You've got even more issues than I thought. Who am I to apologize?

Edited August 4, 2014 by Jingthing

[Morch]

If we're talking about the poor Palestinians being killed by the Israelis right? than what about the poor

Palestinians being killed and expelled fro Syria on en mass? some will jump now up and say these

are different Palestinians, are they?

The value of a dead Palestinian rises exponentially if their death can be blamed on Israel, otherwise they are ten a penny, for example the Jordanians killed 10,000 when they expelled the PLO from Jordan.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

The numbers are certainly high, but that figure doesn't seem likely as far as I've read on wiki;

"Estimates of the number of the people killed in the ten days of Black September range from three thousand to more than five thousand, although exact numbers are unknown. The Palestinian death toll in 11 days of fighting was estimated by Jordan at 3,400, while Palestinian sources often cite the number 5,000, mainly civilians, killed. Arafat at some point claimed that 10,000 had been killed."

As far as I recall, this generated a huge amount of Arab anger directed at Hussein, but perhaps less international indignation.

Considering this went pretty close as far as US-USSR clashes go, a bit odd its a relatively lightly covered chapter of Middle

East history. By the way, compared with 3400 in 11 days, Israel somehow seems slightly less bloodthirsty.

[Morch]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

When you use women and children as human shields, civilians die. No more criminal than Friendly Fire. Stuff happens. Get over it. Israel has the right to defend itself against Hamas, a terrorist organization. OK, you can attack me now.

To say that they're using women and children as sheilds and that this is an explanation for this attack on the school is a bit silly. You might as well say the Isreali's are doing so by staying put in Tel Aviv. Where after all are can the Gaza Palestinians to go for shelter?

Well, there are all them tunnels the Hamas dug up. Leadership seems to be pretty much unharmed. The tunnels IDF was destroying are those leading into Israel, there are others.

[Morch]

When you use women and children as human shields,

YOu do realize, this is an unsubstantiated lie told by Israel, right?

Not all civilians killed could be tagged as human shields (and really, even if someone IS being used as a human shield, this does not, IMO, make his life forfeit). Some civilians killed quite certainly were. Not a black and white situation here.

The image most people get when "human shield" comes up is a bad guy holding a hostage in front of him, while the good guy needs to make a moral call and still get the bad guy. Hollywood is way to simplistic sometimes. In the context of the current fighting this situation rarely applies. Rather, the civilians are used by Hamas as an area shield (umbrella works better as an image, perhaps), even without them being actively a part of the fighting scene as per the Hollywood recipe.

Intentionally placing facilities and weapons bound to be targets in/besides/near/under densely populated residential areas and public buildings, is not much different than the Hollywoodian placing of a civilian in front of the good guy (ok, Israel is not a good guy, whatever). This gets compounded when civilians are told to stay put and ignore IDF warnings, and when calling out to civilians to come and protect places with their lives, or when not letting them find shelter in the vast tunnel maze running under their neighborhood, also when rejecting offers for any ceasefire. This all constitutes use of civilians as human shields.

[Morch]

IDF USES HUMAN SHIELDS

How often have we heard the Zionist say Hamas uses human shields? The reality is, as ever, they try to pin the tactics they use on Hamas.

It is Israel policy to use Palestinians as human shields.

Two IDF soldiers charged with using 9-year-old 'human shield' in Gaza war

Israeli defence minister Shaul Mofaz appeals the ban on the use of human shields

Ulysses, jingthing and ggold can peddle the lies about Hamas and human shields, but everyone knows its the Zionists that actually use children as shields

Your link demonstrates your lie, written in block capitals for good measure. The fact soldiers are prosecuted for such behavior demonstrates their actions are NOT IDF POLICY. I wonder when was the last time Hamas prosecuted anyone for using civilians as human shields.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Some very disturbing accounts of how the IDF use children as human shields here

http://www.dci-palestine.org/sites/default/files/bearingthebruntagain.pdf

That's pretty much what the first link refers to, I believe. The key word is "charged".

When you find a Hamas member charged for the same, do share.

[Morch]

Back on topic, how many woman and children need to be murdered in Gaza before you say enough is enough?

Any of you Israeli apologists, answer that question.

Not one Israeli apologist on here seems prepared to answer this simple question. Strange, because you seem happy to back up this genocide but reluctant to acknowledge how many innocents its ok to slaughter.

You use the term "murdered" which would imply they selected these people specifically and then killed them. That is absurd. Yes, they are casualties of war. I wish they weren't, but I cannot change that. When Hamas learns that they cannot kill all the Israelis and Jews then maybe innocent people will quit dying. Do a little reading and you will understand that Hamas will not cease firing rockets into Israeli territory until all Jews and Israelis are dead. I firmly believe that the people of Gaza would willingly live in peace next to Israel if there were no Hamas government putting their lives in danger on a daily basis.

If you are referring to the "Hamas Charter", it doesn't appear to be a driver of current Hamas policy. There seems to have been a big change in 2006, when they were elected in Gaza.

I've been trying to find a RECENT statement from Hamas, calling for the destruction of Jews, but can't find one. Can you?

From Guardian;

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/jan/12/israel

From the Telegraph;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/1507754/Hamas-drops-call-for-the-end-of-Israel-as-poll-nears.html

From Wiki;

"Dr. Ahmed Yousef, an adviser to Ismail Haniyeh (the senior political leader of Hamas) claimed that Hamas has changed its views with time since the charter was issued in 1988.^[17] In 2010 Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal stated that the Charter is "a piece of history and no longer relevant, but cannot be changed for internal reasons."^[6]

In 2006, Hamas proposed government programme, which stated that "the question of recognizing Israel is not the jurisdiction of one faction, nor the government, but a decision for the Palestinian people."^[18][19] However many remain sceptical of Hamas's new stance, and view it as a ploy to hide its true agenda, "but it is equally true that the “new” discourse of diluted religious content—to say nothing of the movement’s increasing pragmatism and flexibility in the political domain—reflects genuine and cumulative changes within Hamas."^[7]

Of course if Hamas had any brains they would throw it out completely

Link to previous response on same post in another topic:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/747567-anger-mounts-as-gaza-toll-rises/?p=8198458

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/747567-anger-mounts-as-gaza-toll-rises/?p=8198876

And a quick link for a recent statement:

Leader Celebrates Founding of Hamas With Defiant Speech

Khaled Meshal, the political leader of Hamas, gave a defiant speech on Saturday, vowing to build an Islamic Palestinian state on all the land of Israel, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.

Speaking before tens of thousands of supporters to celebrate the 25th anniversary of the founding of Hamas, Mr. Meshal said the Jewish state would be wiped away through “resistance,” or military action. “The state will come from resistance, not negotiation,” he said. “Liberation first, then statehood.”

His voice rising to a shout, Mr. Meshal said: “Palestine is ours from the river to the sea and from the south to the north. There will be no concession on any inch of the land.” He vowed that all Palestinian refugees and their descendants would one day return to their original homes in what is now Israel.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/09/world/middleeast/khaled-meshal-hamas-leader-delivers-defiant-speech-on-anniversary-celebration.html?pagewanted=all