Please Help us get out of Thailand

[PaulTarpey]

As a footnote I got a reply from the British Embassy email (automated) saying they will try to get in touch within 20 days.

I think you guys will have solved my problem before then

Thank you all.

UK Embassy will have zero input as it's a Thai domestic matter.

As a comment my wife needed something for her son from her Amphur to assist with obtaining his visa for Oz. Unfortunately she had informed them needed urgently so had the same round around as you; cannot, busy, wait X number of days blah, blah. Had to pay them a considerable amount of tea money & rec'd doco the same day. She had exactly the same issue with a Thai national govt department that we are not permitted to detail on TV

And the moral is - don't ever tell any official or service supplier that there is any urgency as it has a direct correlation to the "price" you will need to pay for expediency.

Thank you ! I am beginning to realise. So I will rock up all casual like it is a non issue - perhaps whistling while I saunter :-) I am happy to pay 500 baht though - nothing compared to the flights and lost income.

[stevenl]

Thank you all ! My wife has managed to speak to a lady (friend of a friend) who works in a house book office in Nong Khai. She says it takes 2 to 3 days normally but the boss (who needs to sign apparently) will take a fee of 500 baht to get it done same day.

We are going to take the friend's house book to that office with the fee first thing Monday.

Cross fingers!

Good luck. At any amphur though this can be done in a few minutes, sometimes hours. So somebody is pocketing (unnecessarily) some money.

And yes, I'd also pay the 500 just to be sure and get this done and over with asap.

[casualbiker]

Have you tried the main passport office in Bkk. They may be more forthcoming!

http://www.answers.com/Q/Where_is_Thailand_passport_offices

[arkom]

Thank you all ! My wife has managed to speak to a lady (friend of a friend) who works in a house book office in Nong Khai. She says it takes 2 to 3 days normally but the boss (who needs to sign apparently) will take a fee of 500 baht to get it done same day.

We are going to take the friend's house book to that office with the fee first thing Monday.

Cross fingers!

Good luck. At any amphur though this can be done in a few minutes, sometimes hours. So somebody is pocketing (unnecessarily) some money.

And yes, I'd also pay the 500 just to be sure and get this done and over with asap.

I was about to say the same thing, adding a name to a tabien ban does not take 2 to 3 days and can be done the same day, how long it takes depends on how many people are line and the boss does not actually sign the book.

Someone is definitely pocketing some money.

[PaulTarpey]

Have you tried the main passport office in Bkk. They may be more forthcoming!

http://www.answers.com/Q/Where_is_Thailand_passport_offices

Thank you - once I get this house book in my hand, we will make a bee line for that main building.

[samran]

You do not need Tabian Ban to get a Thai Passport. Does your child have a Thai ID card? You need a House registrationto get that. It does not take 5 days to get a passport; 24 hours to have it delivered. There is no reason you cannot leave on your UK passports. If you leave on the Thai passports, without UK passports then there would be a need for visas for the uk, which is obviously nonsense, if you have UK passports. Children cannot overstay, and I have never heard of a problem with 'expired Thai passports' . As far as I know there is no regulation that requires you to enter and leave on the same passport. Much of this does not add up!

You are wrong on more than one point.

A house book is required if applying for the passport here in Thailand. See: http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/1415/21479-Requirements-for-the-Ordinary-e-Passports-Applicat.html

Without a house book registry the child would not be able to get an ID card.

It is a requirement to leave on the same passport you entered on. There would be no entry/permit to stay stamp in a foreign passport if you tried to leave on a different passport.

Since the child entered on a Thai passport they must leave on a valid Thai passport. Their UK passport does not have an entry stamp in it.

Don't wish to quibble UbonJoe..but...You do NOT need a Tabian Baan to get a passport. All you need is an ID card. Sure you need a Tabian Baan to get an ID card . My children have offered up their UK passports at Swampy with a departure card and never been asked either why they do not have an entry stamp nor asked if they entered Thailand on a Thai or other passport. TBefore there used to be a stamp in their Thai passports 'Seen at BKK' last time came in a month ago does not even have that. The airline is only interested in whether they have the right to enter the UK or a visa/passport to enter Thailand.

Anyway on a different tack..who in their right mind would bring a child to Thailand. or anywhere, with a passport that was due to expire? It is a normal part of life that to travel anywhere that the passport must have at least 6 months duration remaining

And..this child has a Thai passport already, so it is just a renewal....

Geez. Thai documents 101.

A house book is a tabieen baan. Every Thai citizen normally resident in Thailand is on one. You don't have to live there. Just be registered. Can be a house of a friend or relative. They just have to enter you on their book.

You don't get an ID card without a registration on the tabieen baan. In Thailand, you don't get a passport without an ID card. All Thai citizens normally resident in Thailand get a ID at 7 years of age.

In Thailand, under 7 you need to show your tabieen baan. From memory the OPs son is 5. He'll need a tabieen baan.

Edited August 31, 2014 by samran

[samran]

To the OP.

I've personally been in the same situation as your son, though a little bit older.

You will need to get your son in the tabieen baan or house registration. It is common to go to the house of a relative.

You will need the original Thai birth certificate for him though. It won't be possible to register him without it. Probably need certified copies of your ID as well.

So if the birth certificate is sitting back I the UK, you'll need someone to courier it over, or fly back first and get it and send it over.

It take about 2 days, a couple of hours over each day. You'll need the head of the house as well as someone else to vouch for the child, basically to say I know then and they are a Thai citizen.

As for renouncing Thai nationality. Thai nationality law states that a child born of one foreign parent who also has that nationality of the foreign parent can only renounce, if they wish, during the period of one year following their 20th birthday. There is no penalty if they don't.

Edited August 31, 2014 by samran

[hotsoup]

Got people worked up has it not?.

All very simple

Every Thai person has to have an ID card and a Tabian Baan. Without those two life is very difficult

But they are easy to get, particularly, for a child.Granny? if you have a Thai Birth Certificate no problem

I fail to to understand why the OP has not protected/secured the future of his children in Thailand by their not having an ID card, and a Tabian Baan. Not difficult. Quick trip to the Amph0e/Tessuban

When we last went renew the childrens' passports in CM the only thing they were interested in was the mother's consent, ems reasonable...I take them out of Thailand regularly on their UK passports and return on n their Thai ones!

Edited August 31, 2014 by hotsoup

[samran]

You do not need Tabian Ban to get a Thai Passport. Does your child have a Thai ID card? You need a House registrationto get that. It does not take 5 days to get a passport; 24 hours to have it delivered. There is no reason you cannot leave on your UK passports. If you leave on the Thai passports, without UK passports then there would be a need for visas for the uk, which is obviously nonsense, if you have UK passports. Children cannot overstay, and I have never heard of a problem with 'expired Thai passports' . As far as I know there is no regulation that requires you to enter and leave on the same passport. Much of this does not add up!

You are wrong on more than one point.

A house book is required if applying for the passport here in Thailand. See: http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/1415/21479-Requirements-for-the-Ordinary-e-Passports-Applicat.html

Without a house book registry the child would not be able to get an ID card.

It is a requirement to leave on the same passport you entered on. There would be no entry/permit to stay stamp in a foreign passport if you tried to leave on a different passport.

Since the child entered on a Thai passport they must leave on a valid Thai passport. Their UK passport does not have an entry stamp in it.

Don't wish to quibble UbonJoe..but...You do NOT need a Tabian Baan to get a passport. All you need is an ID card. Sure you need a Tabian Baan to get an ID card . My children have offered up their UK passports at Swampy with a departure card and never been asked either why they do not have an entry stamp nor asked if they entered Thailand on a Thai or other passport. TBefore there used to be a stamp in their Thai passports 'Seen at BKK' last time came in a month ago does not even have that. The airline is only interested in whether they have the right to enter the UK or a visa/passport to enter Thailand.

Anyway on a different tack..who in their right mind would bring a child to Thailand. or anywhere, with a passport that was due to expire? It is a normal part of life that to travel anywhere that the passport must have at least 6 months duration remaining

And..this child has a Thai passport already, so it is just a renewal....

hotsoup, I understand where you are coming from re the 6 months and me not being in my right mind. It would be insane to venture abroad with a single passport that is running out. Clearly. No quibbles.

However heading to the nation of the passport where you have been reliably told it takes a week to renew, with a valid passport for years ahead for your return country did not sound insane to me. I thought that rocking up at any overseas airport with a valid UK passport on a direct flight to London would not be an issue. But I could be mad - I will let you know when I conduct a reasonableness survey of other folks when (if) I get back home.

Anyway nice to have your comments when I am up sh*t creek without a paddle - something else to think about.

Just for completeness, the woman at the office told my wife that the 'Tabian Baan' sign up means my 5 year old gets on some register for Thai Military Service when he is around 18 years and that there is another 'fee' to not go into some kind of ballot. I don't understand and am not really worried - whatever happens he won't be doing it. Just thought I would give the full picture for any future readers with the same problems.

When he is 20 he'll be eligible but if he is living offshore and can't report there will be no penalty. At 30 he'll be automatically exempted, as I was.

Nothing to worry about.

[tifino]

going back to the very beginning - surely you could see the folly in having commenced the journey from the UK, travelling on a (thai or whatever) Passport that was about to expire. Minimum expiry is 6 months yes - but surely you had an inkling you were cutting it fine especially as you were going to be in LOS over the 30days, and the clock was ticking down from the 6 months.

Something tells me the cost of getting 3 visas would have been better eh!

[crazykopite]

I would imagine that you could get emergency British passports at the British Embassy on Monday once you have explained the situation I hope all turns out well for you

[tifino]

I would imagine that you could get emergency British passports at the British Embassy on Monday once you have explained the situation I hope all turns out well for you

what has the British Embassy got to do with expired Thai passports??

[dereklev]

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You do not need Tabian Ban to get a Thai Passport. Does your child have a Thai ID card? You need a House registrationto get that. It does not take 5 days to get a passport; 24 hours to have it delivered. There is no reason you cannot leave on your UK passports. If you leave on the Thai passports, without UK passports then there would be a need for visas for the uk, which is obviously nonsense, if you have UK passports. Children cannot overstay, and I have never heard of a problem with 'expired Thai passports' . As far as I know there is no regulation that requires you to enter and leave on the same passport. Much of this does not add up!

You are wrong on more than one point.

A house book is required if applying for the passport here in Thailand. See: http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/1415/21479-Requirements-for-the-Ordinary-e-Passports-Applicat.html

Without a house book registry the child would not be able to get an ID card.

It is a requirement to leave on the same passport you entered on. There would be no entry/permit to stay stamp in a foreign passport if you tried to leave on a different passport.

Since the child entered on a Thai passport they must leave on a valid Thai passport. Their UK passport does not have an entry stamp in it.

Don't wish to quibble UbonJoe..but...You do NOT need a Tabian Baan to get a passport. All you need is an ID card. Sure you need a Tabian Baan to get an ID card . My children have offered up their UK passports at Swampy with a departure card and never been asked either why they do not have an entry stamp nor asked if they entered Thailand on a Thai or other passport. TBefore there used to be a stamp in their Thai passports 'Seen at BKK' last time came in a month ago does not even have that. The airline is only interested in whether they have the right to enter the UK or a visa/passport to enter Thailand.

Anyway on a different tack..who in their right mind would bring a child to Thailand. or anywhere, with a passport that was due to expire? It is a normal part of life that to travel anywhere that the passport must have at least 6 months duration remaining

And..this child has a Thai passport already, so it is just a renewal....

As a matter of interest, how does a Thai child get an ID card under the age of 15?

It is mandatory for all Thai children aged 7 to have an ID card. My son got his through his school.

I believe my wife had to supply the school with our Tabien Bahn her ID card and a copy of my passport photo page and current extension of stay.

[kingstonkid]

Best of Luck.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

As a matter of interest, how does a Thai child get an ID card under the age of 15?

Turn up at the Amphur office with the kid, one parent, his birth cert, and house book.

All done in 30 minutes.

Edited August 31, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[samran]

I would imagine that you could get emergency British passports at the British Embassy on Monday once you have explained the situation I hope all turns out well for you

The boy needs a Thai passport, not a British one. Edited August 31, 2014 by samran

[lopburi3]

There are several issues at play here:

1. Thai can enter Thailand with expiring or expired passport - but can not leave on expired passport - this is what happened.

2. Thai can obtain a new Thai passport if they were born in Thailand and have ID card or listed on home register - this person was born outside Thailand and is not listed on home register.

3. To obtain home register listing may will require the Thai Embassy report of birth from UK as said above - do not believe they will accept just the expired Thai passport but it worth a try as it can not be issued without - but District Office is not likely to accept anything but what is listed in there manual and that will most likely be birth certificate.

In worst case perhaps father could provide legal papers to wife and she/child could return later to avoid work issues. Once paperwork here should not take long to get name on home register as he has already found out.

[tifino]

the wau I read it, the OP wants to avoid 'school' issues - is the priority over any possible work issue

[samran]

the wau I read it, the OP wants to avoid 'school' issues - is the priority over any possible work issue

The way I see it he needs to get his boy a Thai passport, pronto.

[lopburi3]

the wau I read it, the OP wants to avoid 'school' issues - is the priority over any possible work issue

"Losing work money" was in his first post so it appears to be an issue in my reading. And if it requires his going back first to obtain/forward birth certificate quickly it may be worthwhile for child's missing less school.

[Thai at Heart]

As far as I know there is no regulation that requires you to enter and leave on the same passport. Much of this does not add up!

It's pretty much a global requirement, have you tried?

Leaving on a replacement passport is rarely an issue but swapping nationality whilst in-country, no way José.

That is one of the most obvious ways for people to be smuggled and trafficed. Thailand presumably has tightened up on this in the last fee years.

[LeeTheCelt]

Forgive Me if someone has already stated this,

but, why on earth did the airline or British customs not pick up on the fact that this child's passport was nearly out of date ?

They had return tickets to the UK I presume ?

& are we not allowed to Fly without at least 6 months life left on our passports ?

A few people not doing their jobs properly UK side Me thinks !

[jacko45k]

As far as I know there is no regulation that requires you to enter and leave on the same passport. Much of this does not add up!

It's pretty much a global requirement, have you tried?

Leaving on a replacement passport is rarely an issue but swapping nationality whilst in-country, no way José.

How about entering Thailand on a UK passport, and leaving on a Thai one?

Anyhow doesn't help the OP who is in a bit of a quandary/Catch22 situation.

Best of luck.

[lopburi3]

The issue is Thai passports - UK Embassy does not issue them - they have UK passports but they were not used for entry and replacement for them would still not find any record of there entry on the replaced passports because there is none. The wife travel is not an issue - she can in fact leave at any time as has valid Thai passport and a UK passport to show no visa required. It is only an issue for the child. Expect in the past common sense judgement would have been to allow travel - but with current child/traffic issues a hard line no exit on foreign passport was made.

As for Thai expiring passport travel it is clearly stated that passport can be expired for travel to Thailand which is what airline would have been concerned about

[Arkady]

To the OP.

I've personally been in the same situation as your son, though a little bit older.

You will need to get your son in the tabieen baan or house registration. It is common to go to the house of a relative.

You will need the original Thai birth certificate for him though. It won't be possible to register him without it. Probably need certified copies of your ID as well.

So if the birth certificate is sitting back I the UK, you'll need someone to courier it over, or fly back first and get it and send it over.

It take about 2 days, a couple of hours over each day. You'll need the head of the house as well as someone else to vouch for the child, basically to say I know then and they are a Thai citizen.

As for renouncing Thai nationality. Thai nationality law states that a child born of one foreign parent who also has that nationality of the foreign parent can only renounce, if they wish, during the period of one year following their 20th birthday. There is no penalty if they don't.

As Samran says, renunciation of Thai nationality can only be at the age of 20 in this case and would probably take at least a year, as it needs to be approved by the Interior Minister. The OP's son cannot be "stripped" of his Thai nationality because he is Thai born.

The boy will indeed get on to the register for military service by being on a tabien baan and will be called up to do the ballot at age 20.

Thai children living overseas have the privilege of being allowed to obtain a Thai passport without a tabien baan. Thus, if they don't come to live in Thailand beforehand, they can delay getting a tabien baan and ID card until they are 30 and will avoid the draft. By not renewing his son's passport before the trip, the OP may have effectively set aside that privilege for his son. However, I am not sure if it is possible for a Thai citizen to be removed from a tabien baan on the grounds of moving overseas. Normally Thais move from one district to another but don't remove themselves from registration completely, meaning they cannot renew ID cards, and I am sure if the district office officials will allow that. However, it would be worth trying to do that, if the boy is not gong to be moving to Thailand before he is 20.

It is worth knowing that there is no overstay penalty for minors. Therefore, if the boy had entered on his UK passport, he could have overstayed without penalty. He could also have got a 12 month extension in his British passport on the grounds of being a Thai citizen (expired Thai passport should be evidence enough). Also Immigration has just introduced 30 day extensions for foreigners arriving on visa waivers, e.g. UK citizens.

I have also never heard appointments required to apply for a tabien baan. When I got mine, I just rocked up to the district office with my documentation and filled in some forms which the staff helped me with. In my case there was no one living in the house, so they had to issue a new blue book. Mine was ready in, I think, 2 or 3 working days. Altogether a seamless experience, even though I am a foreigner.

The British Embassy cannot interfere with Thailand's regulations for its own citizens. If he had entered on a British passport and had a problem, they might be able to do something but usually they do the bare minimum. The British Foreign Office makes absolutely clear that it cannot intervene in situations like call-ups for mililtary service for dual nationals. I am told this is very common in Pakistan and Bangadesh which allow dual nationality. Many British kids of Pakistani and Bangladeshi origin get passports from the those countries and end up getting drafted on their first ever visits to the home countries and go crying to the British High Commissions for help. But, as already noted, there is a way to avoid this for Thai dual nationals abroad while still holding a Thai passport.

[stevenl]

Forgive Me if someone has already stated this,

but, why on earth did the airline or British customs not pick up on the fact that this child's passport was nearly out of date ?

They had return tickets to the UK I presume ?

& are we not allowed to Fly without at least 6 months life left on our passports ?

A few people not doing their jobs properly UK side Me thinks !

UK nationals, so ok for the airline and UK immigration. Thai immigration, if they noticed, could have thought they were going to renew in country, and no, there is no immigration rule for Thailand requiring 6 months passport validity, especially not for Thai nationals.

[chris1dna]

No time to read all replies so hopefully you got the right info. Same thing happened to my wife and son. Wife entered on soon to expire thai passport and a new Thai passport for our son all the while also possessing a valid US passport for her and our son. Had to go back home to village. Get some documentation. Return to BKK. Apply for new passport. Come home to USA. Took about a week. Had to have valid Thai passport as she entered on one. No way around it. Also. Regarding wait time. Just offer lunch(tea money) and appointment should magically appear. Nonsense I know. But TIT. Good luck.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Edited August 31, 2014 by chris1dna

[Arkady]

Forgive Me if someone has already stated this,

but, why on earth did the airline or British customs not pick up on the fact that this child's passport was nearly out of date ?

They had return tickets to the UK I presume ?

& are we not allowed to Fly without at least 6 months life left on our passports ?

A few people not doing their jobs properly UK side Me thinks !

UK nationals, so ok for the airline and UK immigration. Thai immigration, if they noticed, could have thought they were going to renew in country, and no, there is no immigration rule for Thailand requiring 6 months passport validity, especially not for Thai nationals.

Actually there is no regulation that sates that Thai citizens need a valid Thai passport to enter Thailand, as they have an absolute right to be in the country. ThusThai Immigration will admit them on an expired Thai passport being sufficient evidence that they are Thai, although this might be tough, if the passport had expired donkeys years ago and it was hard to proved the holder was the same person.

[Maestro]

As some suggested before, enter the kid in any house book. (Tabien ban) this really takes a few minutes and 20 baht.

Then go back to bangna. Passport takes less than 48 hours.

As for the I'd card, I believe child needs to be 12 to get one. So no other option than Tabien ban and non- provincial passport office.

If your wife's friend says 500 baht, go for it.

Good luck.

No, a child does not need to 12 years old to get a Thai ID card.

[stevenl]

Forgive Me if someone has already stated this,

but, why on earth did the airline or British customs not pick up on the fact that this child's passport was nearly out of date ?

They had return tickets to the UK I presume ?

& are we not allowed to Fly without at least 6 months life left on our passports ?

A few people not doing their jobs properly UK side Me thinks !

UK nationals, so ok for the airline and UK immigration. Thai immigration, if they noticed, could have thought they were going to renew in country, and no, there is no immigration rule for Thailand requiring 6 months passport validity, especially not for Thai nationals.

Actually there is no regulation that sates that Thai citizens need a valid Thai passport to enter Thailand, as they have an absolute right to be in the country. ThusThai Immigration will admit them on an expired Thai passport being sufficient evidence that they are Thai, although this might be tough, if the passport had expired donkeys years ago and it was hard to proved the holder was the same person.

Yes, did I claim otherwise?