Land/houses In Pattaya

[Maverick]

Whats the market like in Pattaya - does land/houses in general appreciate in value (the second hand market seems saturated looking at the ads). Any areas that are hot or to be avoided? Is beachfront a possibility and at what cost?

[hughden]

As anywhere; location seems to be the key. Prices have been rising over the past couple of years and still are; but that does not mean they will continue to do so. Beach front is more expensive than other locations; but maybe more price secure in the long run and there is a limit to what is allowed to be built by the sea now.

I bought a 252 sq metre condo for 6.7 million over 2 years ago and could probably sell it for twice that now; but I bought as a place to live and not as an investment which I would suggest is the safest way to approach property purchase in Thailand.

[Digger]

Whats the market like in Pattaya - does land/houses in general appreciate in value (the second hand market seems saturated looking at the ads). Any areas that are hot or to be avoided? Is beachfront a possibility and at what cost?

I have owned property in Pattaya for 3 years and I still see the same places advertised that were for sale when I was looking 3 years ago. I think a lot of people either over estimate the worth of their "castle" or are in such a bad development, they cannot ever hope to sell it for even what they paid let alone make a profit. I sold one house about 2 months ago and I got a 20% return in the 18 months I had owned it and had 3 serious buyers wanting it. The guy across the street from me had priced his house at half what I was asking for mine and he cannot sell it in two years

The key things to look for are not only location but also more importantly in the case of re-sales the quality of the house and fittings. All too often, the building is crap in design and construction standard. Look for double block cavity walls, proper roof insulation, branded air conditioners that are quiet, the best kitchens and bathrooms and NO pillars out in the open. I am amazed at how many Thai builders leave pillars in the middle of living rooms..... There is no need for it and most buyers of used homes, hate them. Also if you keep everything neutral coloured, you will appeal to more buyers. Unfortunately the guy across the street from me painted his house a shade of orange which unfortunately, nobody seems to like - the old adage is true, most buyers make up their minds before even stepping foot in the house....

In terms of relative profit, the highest increases in prices are seen in condo's in well maintained buildings and houses the other side of Sukhumvit out towards the resevoir. Avoid houses with postage sized plots and those that back onto other houses - my experience is that most do not sell well. People want space and neat design - if they dont have that, they tend not to sell at any price. Also most people want tolive in some kind of village however the newest villages doing very well are very small with perhaps between 5-20 houses. Again you will not get a return on a development where the builder is still trying to sell his brnad new houses for the same price that you paid. Furthermore people dont like buying on unfinished developments. Also, buy the cheapest house in the best village you can afford, not the best house in the worst village - you have knowwhere to go but down in value in my opinion.

Architecht designed houses are a whole lot better than idetikit shacks put up by a know nothing builder - someone who understands space, walls, asthetics etc will be far more saleable in the long run. Narrow living rooms and huge bedrooms are another thing I avoid but are very common in Thai housing. Westerners do not spend much time in the bedroom so why have a 5m X 7m bedroom but the living room is only 3.5 m wide .

The newer developments all have underground cabling for electric and telephone - look at an old established estate and you will see why - every house has its own cable carelessly stuck up on the pole creating an eyesore for prospective buyers. Also steer clear of predominantlky Thai owned villages as the infrastructure tends to be poor as most Thai's refuse to pay service fee's. Therefore the developer does not keep the streets clean and maintained etc. For resale value's the best returns are in well designed, spacious villages with strong security and tidy roads. May sound simple but there are probably less than 5 villages in the whole area of Pattaya that I would consider buying in.

Hope this helps

[tuky]

chok dee krup

I hear rumours that laem chebang, sri racha, bang lamung are turning into something special and an international airport is planned for PTY, if these rumours are true I would expect investments in or around PTY to pay off in the long run.

Can anyone confirm these rumours? or perhaps start a thread to gather info?

A flight to PTY rather than the trip down the motorway would such a welcomed relief, and with the amount of traffic quite a money spinner for an airline too.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

chok dee krup

I hear rumours that laem chebang, sri racha, bang lamung are turning into something special and an international airport is planned for PTY, if these rumours are true I would expect investments in or around PTY to pay off in the long run.

Can anyone confirm these rumours? or perhaps start a thread to gather info?

A flight to PTY rather than the trip down the motorway would such a welcomed relief, and with the amount of traffic quite a money spinner for an airline too.

How much would you pay for a one way flight from Bkk Tuky ?

[tuky]

Dr, not sure what the going rate would be, but an airport taxi costs about 1k5 baht, if my wife was to come pick me up it costs around 250-300 baht in gasoline, about 250 baht in toll and probably 4 hours of her time. Of course I could take the bus for about 70 baht, but that is really putting your life in danger

I would pay 1k5 baht for sure, worth it in the time saved alone, nothing worse than a >2hour drive after the long haul home. JMHO

[Up2U]

chok dee krup

I hear rumours that ....... an international airport is planned for PTY, if these rumours are true I would expect investments in or around PTY to pay off in the long run.

Can anyone confirm these rumours? or perhaps start a thread to gather info?

A flight to PTY rather than the trip down the motorway would such a welcomed relief, and with the amount of traffic quite a money spinner for an airline too.

Suvarnabhumi IA is scheduled to open on 29 Sept 2005 - South-East of BKK.

http://www.bangkokairport.org/newversion/index.asp

It is directly connected to the Bangkok-Chonburi Motorway, the Bang Na / Trat Skyway (the Bilfinger double-deck road) and so on.

Thus it will cut journey time to / from Patty by a considerable chunk, 'cos you will not have to go through Bang Na or Bangkok.

Thus I doubt that there will be any development at Pattaya, U Tapao will remain as-is. The transport budget for the next few years is allocated to roads around Bangkok, roads to the border and so on.

Currently I would reckon that the SBIA will be open in early 2006, rather than late 2005, but that is only an opinion.

By the way, Thaksin has insisted that Aerothai build the tallest control tower in the world at this airport. Now who else would want to put up a very tall physical obstruction in an international airport? (Aerothai have not yet started work ....). No problem, the traffic can easily be controlled from Don Muang.

I further understand that Don Muang will remain in place for domestic traffic. So that means everyone will stay in BKK or Pattaya, rather than get out of SBIA and travel all the way through BKK to Don Muang, to catch flights for Chiang Mai or Phuket, or wherever.

[astral]

I bought as a place to live and not as an investment which I would suggest is the safest way to approach property purchase in Thailand.

Generally property is a good long term bet............

but remember this is Thailand.

They could turn round and change the law tomorrow so that you loose the lot,

no matter how you bought it.

The golden rule is

Never invest more here, than you are prepared to walk away from

[mrmnp]

Digger: What a comprehensive and "right on" post. Many thanks.

Do you or anyone have any comments on Pattaya Hill development?

It seems to conform completely to Digger's post.

[Digger]

Digger: What a comprehensive and "right on" post. Many thanks.

Do you or anyone have any comments on Pattaya Hill development?

It seems to conform completely to Digger's post.

Do you know where it is - I have heard of it but cannot place it?

[mrmnp]

Pattaya Hill #1&2 are on Wat Bunyasamphan Road (Soi Khaonoi) just as it turns from East to South or East on Soi Khaotalo 800 meters (north) past Wat Banyasamphan School.

I was up there today and I did notice overhead electrical and telephone lines, although the streets are concrete and 10 meters wide so the aerial lines are not quite so noticeable.

It was very difficult to negotiate with the staff there. They quoted 1.98mil for me "special price" until I found a printed price sheet with that figure on it.

I finally chose a house next to a double lot so the bay window looks over a wall to a garden rather than another house, and they quoted 2.4mil for the exact same house because "built in furniture". Well, said furniture consisted of two stained wood bed frames with end table slabs attached to the walls and wood baseboards.

All the houses I looked at were 98 sq. meters on 63 wah lots, which means a one meter side yards and maybe two or three meeters for a terrace. 400k for the wood trim, what a rip off.

I left in disgust. I really liked the houses as they had vaulted ceilings, great bathrooms, kitchen with built in cabintes and a beautiful bay window. If the price doesn't bother you, I recommend a look see at the very well designed houses. Because of the community pool, the monthly maintenance fee is 1200 baht, to be prepaid for three years. What happens in four years when the Thais stop paying their maintenance fees as they are famous for doing?

[Bozo]

I bought as a place to live and not as an investment which I would suggest is the safest way to approach property purchase in Thailand.

Generally property is a good long term bet............

but remember this is Thailand.

They could turn round and change the law tomorrow so that you loose the lot,

no matter how you bought it.

The golden rule is

Never invest more here, than you are prepared to walk away from

Wise !

[Maverick]

Someone told me today that overall Pattaya property has gone up 30% in last 2 years, but is now stagnant.

[Digger]

Someone told me today that overall Pattaya property has gone up 30% in last 2 years, but is now stagnant.

Hmm - i'd treat that with suspicion given that there are no stats available - land office stats are no good becasue everybody uses the stanadard govt tax rates on land in this area which are a fraction of what you actually pay for the land. Also, most farang houses are owned by companies and all that ever happens is that you just change the sole signatory director, the company still owns the house, so again nothing is ever recorded.

I would actually suggest that as a general statement, condo's have increased in advertised selling price (and therefore likely achieved price) by around 30% in two years. Some houses have risen 30% but probably only those in the range of 4-7 million baht and land has risen in asking pirce in some areas by 100% in last two years. Houses below 3,000,000 seem to be going know where and below 1,500,000 they are spiralling downwards. Personally I think this is because the buying power of the average buyer has gone up and you end with a situation where the lowest price proerties becaome almost unsaleable. Just my opinion on what I see here.

[Digger]

Pattaya Hill #1&2 are on Wat Bunyasamphan Road (Soi Khaonoi) just as it turns from East to South or East on Soi Khaotalo 800 meters (north) past Wat Banyasamphan School.

I was up there today and I did notice overhead electrical and telephone lines, although the streets are concrete and 10 meters wide so the aerial lines are not quite so noticeable.

It was very difficult to negotiate with the staff there. They quoted 1.98mil for me "special price" until I found a printed price sheet with that figure on it.

I finally chose a house next to a double lot so the bay window looks over a wall to a garden rather than another house, and they quoted 2.4mil for the exact same house because "built in furniture". Well, said furniture consisted of two stained wood bed frames with end table slabs attached to the walls and wood baseboards.

All the houses I looked at were 98 sq. meters on 63 wah lots, which means a one meter side yards and maybe two or three meeters for a terrace. 400k for the wood trim, what a rip off.

I left in disgust. I really liked the houses as they had vaulted ceilings, great bathrooms, kitchen with built in cabintes and a beautiful bay window. If the price doesn't bother you, I recommend a look see at the very well designed houses. Because of the community pool, the monthly maintenance fee is 1200 baht, to be prepaid for three years. What happens in four years when the Thais stop paying their maintenance fees as they are famous for doing?

I have never looked at developments in that soi because of the poor state of the general area (and I cant see it improving). Therefore in my book, I would pass it over. Are you sure they are double wall construction at that price? Seems very cheap and would be the first I have ever come across that is using double block and cavities in that price range. Also specifically ask what type of insulation they are using - typically its foil at that price range which aint so good in the heat.

Probably the best two developments I have seen in that price range are SP village 2 and Siam Lakeside both on Siam Country Club Road. Siam Lake View is the better of the two as at least the houses have some character. Nice 'aged' roof slates and alledgedly 200 yr old timbers (however that part I do not believe!!!). Siam also has all the cabling underground, not so sure about SP village. The only thing you have to take into account is that invariably they then ad on a host of extras to bring it up to liveable standard such as Kitchen (between 100,000 and 300,000), Air con (think 20-25,000 per room) and often electric meters (check how much) and then things such as UBC connection, telephone lines (if they are available and at what price (typically 30,000 under table money outside of Pattaya). You can easily add 500,000 just to move in and live in it on top of the purchase price.

Also if holding in company name, the cost of the company formation and expected annual taxes as you actually pay rent to your company in most cases to create a trading company which means a tax bill of around 15,000 per annum.

Also back to Pattaya Hill, that price seems high for a 98 SQM house on 63 wah. Also, be aware that the planning laws state no buildings within 2m of the boundary wall, in this case they are breaking the law technically (although it can be covered off by keeping the road 'private') - however as and when they tighten up on this law (which they are doing now), all new houses will have to have a space of 2m, which could mean your chosen place becomes less desirable if its only 1m and the newer ones are 2m.

A nice place I have just seen is between the resevoir and Horseshoe Point (past Siam lake View and turn right follow signs to Horseshoe Point, but you need a Thai reader with you as the sing is only in Thai for the development) - the sign is only in Thai and it say's Acorn Developments. Seem to be building about 8 houses of which 6 are underway or finished already. I stopped and spoke to the Thai builder and he said a farang is building them, primarily to rent out but might be worth you stopping by as they are smart houses even its only to get some ideas before you make your decision. two three bedroom places are finished except for landscaping but the others are huge. Everything underground by the looks of things and double block cavity walls and foam roof insulation. Strange but the three beds have no pools, but the bigger ones do.

Hope this helps

[Up2U]

Picked up a leaflet for Pattaya Hill 2 at the weekend (Royal Garden Plaza - entrance) and type A is 1.5 million Baht, types B & C are 1.75 million, others higher. But there are many unsold properties shown on the map, so I would look elsewhere. It looks like a large development with a small club-house and pool. Probably OK for those who do not socialise, but if the project ever fills up, there surely is not enough 'common area' for the number of houses.