What if? Scotland's steps to independence

[transam]

If it's NO then life will go on, no change, but if a YES, half the Scot populous are going to be very angry being taken into the unknown. If stuff don't work out l can see a huge amount of shit hitting the fan from that huge number of folk.

[smokie36]

My Father always used to say, the best thing about Dundee, was the Road OUT.....

Let the English keep it as a "free trade zone".

The Dundonians will think it something to do with the Discovery......oh the irony.......!

[smokie36]

If it's NO then life will go on, no change, but if a YES, half the Scot populous are going to be very angry being taken into the unknown. If stuff don't work out l can see a huge amount of shit hitting the fan from that huge number of folk.

They won't be angry for long when they see little will change.....a tweak here and there is all we are planning......and never again Tory rule.

They will see the truth quite quickly actually.

[rajyindee]

If it's NO then life will go on, no change, but if a YES, half the Scot populous are going to be very angry being taken into the unknown. If stuff don't work out l can see a huge amount of shit hitting the fan from that huge number of folk.

Is that an opinion or just wishful thinking?

[brewsterbudgen]

Maybe it will be easier for Thais to get a Scotland Visitor visa from the new Scottish Consulate in Bangkok. And then, just cross the border into England...

[ldnguy]

That's not what the current view is, it remains very close and uncertain.

It's not close at all. Result will be around 55-45 in favor of no. That's a 10-point gap. Not close at all.

[ldnguy]

This article is out if date. Far from being too close to call, a no vote is a forgone conclusion. No hope whatsoever of the yes side winning.

Not according the the experts. It is too close to call.

And we all know what the record of "experts" is like. Most likely they want to keep getting paid for their views. They won't once everyone realises it's all over. Just check the latest betting. It's a world away from too close to call. All the money is on a no vote.

[smokie36]

This article is out if date. Far from being too close to call, a no vote is a forgone conclusion. No hope whatsoever of the yes side winning.

Not according the the experts. It is too close to call.

And we all know what the record of "experts" is like. Most likely they want to keep getting paid for their views. They won't once everyone realises it's all over. Just check the latest betting. It's a world away from too close to call. All the money is on a no vote.

Lmao

[Basil B]

Maybe it will be easier for Thais to get a Scotland Visitor visa from the new Scottish Consulate in Bangkok. And then, just cross the border into England...

No way, we will rebuild that wall...

[Basil B]

"An expert group set up by the Scottish government to examine welfare under independence recommended last month that the minimum wage should be brought up to the same level as the living wage, which is £7.65 an hour." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28523877

Sounds great, but you will need a job... how many will loose their jobs?

​How about £306.00 per week unemployment benefits for all those who will loose their jobs.

[smokie36]

"An expert group set up by the Scottish government to examine welfare under independence recommended last month that the minimum wage should be brought up to the same level as the living wage, which is £7.65 an hour." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28523877

Sounds great, but you will need a job... how many will loose their jobs?

​How about £306.00 per week unemployment benefits for all those who will loose their jobs.

I thought the BBC executives were all moving south next week?

[Basil B]

"An expert group set up by the Scottish government to examine welfare under independence recommended last month that the minimum wage should be brought up to the same level as the living wage, which is £7.65 an hour." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28523877

Sounds great, but you will need a job... how many will loose their jobs?

​How about £306.00 per week unemployment benefits for all those who will loose their jobs.

I thought the BBC executives were all moving south next week?

Along with a hell of a lot of other people and jobs...

That is if the Scott's vote yes...

But then for those who are so certain it will be a "yes" vote win there is a perfect opportunity to turn every pound the have into £4... some bookies are still offering 3:1,

[GentlemanJim]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Maybe it will be easier for Thais to get a Scotland Visitor visa from the new Scottish Consulate in Bangkok. And then, just cross the border into England...

And that is why there will be serious consideration given to border control.

[GentlemanJim]

Sums it up perfectly! Great Video. If this man had spoken instead of Darling or the 3 stooges last week, the yes campaign would be running at 30-40%

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=798709416847541&set=vb.100001254709132&type=2&theater

Edited September 14, 2014 by GentlemanJim

[BKK Blues Brother]

Will there be a Scottish embassy in Bangkok?

Another minor detail to be ironed out after a yes vote

I've heard it on good authority that spouse and visitor visa applications for Thai tiraks require only a thumb print and a fee off one bottle of whisky

This info came from the big man himself.

I'm voting YES

[rickirs]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Will there be a Scottish embassy in Bangkok?

I would expect so - eventually. Scotland would be starting from scratch as a new sovereignty and need to quickly establish itself in foreign countries - an expensive startup with no embassy organization. So I would guess it would give first priority for embassies where Scotland has greatest trade and expat Scottish populations, like in the G20/EU countries. Since Scots can retain their British passports, Scotland can temporarily arrange British embassies to serve expat Scot needs until it can open consulates and embassies; in the short term that's what I would expect for expat Scots in Thailand.

[GentlemanJim]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Will there be a Scottish embassy in Bangkok?

I would expect so - eventually. Scotland would be starting from scratch as a new sovereignty and need to quickly establish itself in foreign countries - an expensive startup with no embassy organization. So I would guess it would give first priority for embassies where Scotland has greatest trade and expat Scottish populations, like in the G20/EU countries. Since Scots can retain their British passports, Scotland can temporarily arrange British embassies to serve expat Scot needs until it can open consulates and embassies; in the short term that's what I would expect for expat Scots in Thailand.

You make it all sound so easy. What is left of the Union will be under no obligation to co-operate or spend unnecessary cash on Scotland. Salmond seems to have persuaded the yes crowd that they will be able to have their cake and eat it and I think there will be a rude awakening after the party dies down.

Perhaps we should not stop there with Scotland. Soon after independence i guarantee the Shetlands will want it then lets get independence for the Kingdoms of Strathclyde and what about Dalriada,lets not forget the Kingdom of Northumbria and we may as well go the whole hog and do Mercia, Wessex and Cornwall. The idea of breaking up the Union is utter lunacy. Scotland itself is a Union of even older Kingdoms. Where should we stop. I am Scots and proud of it, but too many folks have been watching hollywood interpretations of Braveheart and Rob Roy, and our economy, jobs, education and future does not lie with tales from 300, 500, 700, 1000, 2000 years ago. What matters to our children is now.

[Benmart]

Will there be a Scottish embassy in Bangkok?

The future is difficult to predict. Best to live in the present.

One Day at a Time.

[dennisrobertpell]

No difference at all...They are both technically bankrupt...

[rajyindee]

What matters to our children is now.

Sorry to disagree. What matters to our children is tomorrow, and next year, and in five years time, and ten years time, and .... fifty years time ...

That's exactly the reason we're having the referendum.

[alant]

I am at a loss to understand why the question of Scotland being a part of the EU is being raised without the question of if independence for Scotland invalidating the UK membership.

Should Scotland attain independence, would the UK that joined the EU be a different political and geographical entity to the one it would then be? How, therefore would this not constitute reason to have to renegotiate both countries membership.

[smokie36]

I am Scots and proud of it

Well that's interesting.

I am Scottish and will feel a damn sight more proud once we are running our own country.

[gamini]

Will there be a Scottish embassy in Bangkok?

There already is.... In our Pub...

And our views are if, "Monte Carlo" can do,it, so can Scotland.......

Monte Carlo is not a country. Monaco is the country in which Monte_Carlo is situated, Monaco Ville is the Capital of Monaco.

[chiang mai]

It's all very strange, I thought the sensible idea was to break down borders rather than create new ones.

[inutil]

If it's NO then life will go on, no change, but if a YES, half the Scot populous are going to be very angry being taken into the unknown. If stuff don't work out l can see a huge amount of shit hitting the fan from that huge number of folk.

They won't be angry for long when they see little will change.....a tweak here and there is all we are planning......and never again Tory rule.

They will see the truth quite quickly actually.

You know what, two unexpected victors of independence might be:

1. Gordon Brown.

Last week Gordon Brown entered the foray, and he THUMPED salmond. Effortlessly he tore into him. Almost single handedly he turned a negative campaign from better together into an actual positive vision of why Scotland would be better off with England and with the PLP. It pulled me off the fence and well into the devo max camp. Itll have done the same for a lot of wavering labour supporters. Alas, on reflection, he can only offer an empty promise. The devo max option is already being deflated by Tory backbenchers and even Ed Balls before it managed to get off the ground. But it was a triumphant return to front line politics. In a two day burst of activity he did two things: he brought the word Federalism to the front and center of UK politics. And he rehabilitated the dirty R word, (redistribution) by challenging Alex Salmond on what hed actually done to redistribute wealth to the poor in his last 7 years, and what he was planning to do in his white paper to redistribute wealth? It was an attack designed to appeal direct to the hemorrhaging labour support for YES, and itll be honest, it worked flawlessly. The surging momentum for indepence was halted completely in its tracks as wavering labour supporters had a rethink. The problem is that now theyve had a rethink, they probably realise that devo-max isnt coming. So screw it...

You bet your ass, if Scotland votes for independence, the Scottish labour party, (despised at least by the west coast at the moment for their part in the no campaign and their commitment to austerity), will see a new leader. And Alex Salmond will be shitting himself at the prospect. I know who id want to lead scotland in this transitional phase: Big Gord any day. The man is a political powerhouse. England hated him. Scotland doesnt. He knows that independence will be his way back. And he'll seize on it if only so he can stick it to Salmond and return the scottish labour party to its natural place on the center left of scottish politics.

2. The Scottish conservative party.

Scotland isnt left wing. Its just like the rest of Britain. Theres an equal and opposite reaction of conservatism in scotland. At the moment it struggles to find its message because its so inexorably linked to Thatcher and the bullingdon club elite down south. In devolution it still cant quite cut the ties and stand out on its own to say what it wants to say. Its stuck with that label and very few people want to hear them. But theyre still there, and theyre still holding out that come independence scotland can start looking to the future again. They will be heard, and theyll see a resurgence in support from it. And once again, the big loser will be the SNP who will see their vote squeezed from the right. Conservatives used to do well in Scotland. They will do well again. And it wont hurt them one bit that independence will immediately place them as the party pushing for close ties with their main business partner: England and the Union.

So its kinda fun (to speculate). The big winners could well be the two biggest losers from the referendum vote. And the biggest losers might well turn out to have bee the biggest winners on the night of the 18th. This idea that Scotland is going into some kind of collective sulk the day after is based entirely on a lack of understanding on what independence will mean to both the Scottish Labour and Conservative parties and their supporters. Sure, theyll feign reluctance that their hands are tied and how this is a cataclysmic mistake, but theyll be relishing the change and looking to make their voice the strongest one in the 2016 elections. Salmond might just have to accept that his party are on to a hiding despite having almost single handedly brought about his lifes work. If Scotland votes for independence, theres no turning back and no point to sulk. They make it work and its that simple. And if they cant, the Scottish people will look for someone who can. We're British (in history and culture) and like the rest of Britian we arent just going to leave behind pragmatism on the 18th just because we voted to take control of our own destiny.

Edited September 15, 2014 by inutil

[Baerboxer]

Interesting is that foreigner in Scotland can also vote. Doesn't sound logic if some Germans in Scotland can vote....

There was an article in "der spiegel" about what the Germans in Scotland vote for.

(Think of a part of Thailand want to separate and Myanmar and Cambodians are also allowed to vote.....)

Good luck for Scotland.......I always liked the people! Cameron, Blair...who want to be under these?

Cameron, Blair - where do you think people with those surnames originate from?

Yes, both are utter useless and have done more harm than good.

[NoshowJones]

Will there be a Scottish embassy in Bangkok?

Why not? Or maybe a consulate - same as Ireland and other smaller countries.

If things go well we'll have a cafe out front selling Lorne sausage rolls and mugs of tea.

I reckon it will be a hit with the locals.

Rowies also, Kippers , Yellow Fish, Buckies, Tripe,Stovies, washed down with Irun Bru.....

The place would be Heaving....

Rowies might be pushing it but smokies are a certainty for lunch.....the Thais would love em with ginger and garlic.....

I would personally make sure all the staff are from Dundee, as that's where most of the Lookers come from, Broughty Ferry and Tayport, ....

But I don't come from there.

[Baerboxer]

If it's NO then life will go on, no change, but if a YES, half the Scot populous are going to be very angry being taken into the unknown. If stuff don't work out l can see a huge amount of shit hitting the fan from that huge number of folk.

They won't be angry for long when they see little will change.....a tweak here and there is all we are planning......and never again Tory rule.

They will see the truth quite quickly actually.

You know what, two unexpected victors of independence might be:

1. Gordon Brown.

Last week Gordon Brown entered the foray, and he THUMPED salmond. Effortlessly he tore into him. Almost single handedly he turned a negative campaign from better together into an actual positive vision of why Scotland would be better off with England and with the PLP. It pulled me off the fence and well into the devo max camp. Itll have done the same for a lot of wavering labour supporters. Alas, on reflection, he can only offer an empty promise. The devo max option is already being deflated by Tory backbenchers and even Ed Balls before it managed to get off the ground. But it was a triumphant return to front line politics. In a two day burst of activity he did two things: he brought the word Federalism to the front and center of UK politics. And he rehabilitated the dirty R word, (redistribution) by challenging Alex Salmond on what hed actually done to redistribute wealth to the poor in his last 7 years, and what he was planning to do in his white paper to redistribute wealth? It was an attack designed to appeal direct to the hemorrhaging labour support for YES, and itll be honest, it worked flawlessly. The surging momentum for indepence was halted completely in its tracks as wavering labour supporters had a rethink. The problem is that now theyve had a rethink, they probably realise that devo-max isnt coming. So screw it...

You bet your ass, if Scotland votes for independence, the Scottish labour party, (despised at least by the west coast at the moment for their part in the no campaign and their commitment to austerity), will see a new leader. And Alex Salmond will be shitting himself at the prospect. I know who id want to lead scotland in this transitional phase: Big Gord any day. The man is a political powerhouse. England hated him. Scotland doesnt. He knows that independence will be his way back. And he'll seize on it if only so he can stick it to Salmond and return the scottish labour party to its natural place on the center left of scottish politics.

2. The Scottish conservative party.

Scotland isnt left wing. Its just like the rest of Britain. Theres an equal and opposite reaction of conservatism in scotland. At the moment it struggles to find its message because its so inexorably linked to Thatcher and the bullingdon club elite down south. In devolution it still cant quite cut the ties and stand out on its own to say what it wants to say. Its stuck with that label and very few people want to hear them. But theyre still there, and theyre still holding out that come independence scotland can start looking to the future again. They will be heard, and theyll see a resurgence in support from it. And once again, the big loser will be the SNP who will see their vote squeezed from the right. Conservatives used to do well in Scotland. They will do well again. And it wont hurt them one bit that independence will immediately place them as the party pushing for close ties with their main business partner: England and the Union.

So its kinda fun (to speculate). The big winners could well be the two biggest losers from the referendum vote. And the biggest losers might well turn out to have bee the biggest winners on the night of the 18th. This idea that Scotland is going into some kind of collective sulk the day after is based entirely on a lack of understanding on what independence will mean to both the Scottish Labour and Conservative parties and their supporters. Sure, theyll feign reluctance that their hands are tied and how this is a cataclysmic mistake, but theyll be relishing the change and looking to make their voice the strongest one in the 2016 elections. Salmond might just have to accept that his party are on to a hiding despite having almost single handedly brought about his lifes work. If Scotland votes for independence, theres no turning back and no point to sulk. They make it work and its that simple. And if they cant, the Scottish people will look for someone who can. We're British (in history and culture) and like the rest of Britian we arent just going to leave behind pragmatism on the 18th just because we voted to take control of our own destiny.

Gordon Brown that wonderfully astute chancellor who flogged off the gold reserves cheap, and squandered the proceeds. Gordon " the days of boom and bust are over" Brown.

Still, you're right - he's much better than that heap of lardy pompous shiteheap Salmond, who clearly as no idea what to do in the event of a Yes vote victory. "Telling" the EU Parliament, the Westminster government, NATO and all other world organizations how it's going to be, what terms Scotland will accept and that must simply agree is a figment of his imagination. He sees an inflated role of himself and his negotiating abilities just because he pulled one over on the even more useless and shifty but ultra wealthy Cameron.

[Neeranam]

"An expert group set up by the Scottish government to examine welfare under independence recommended last month that the minimum wage should be brought up to the same level as the living wage, which is £7.65 an hour." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28523877

Sounds great, but you will need a job... how many will loose their jobs?

​How about £306.00 per week unemployment benefits for all those who will loose their jobs.

I thought the BBC executives were all moving south next week?

Along with a hell of a lot of other people and jobs...

That is if the Scott's vote yes...

But then for those who are so certain it will be a "yes" vote win there is a perfect opportunity to turn every pound the have into £4... some bookies are still offering 3:1,

WHy is that funny? 3-1 is hardly an outsider with no chance.

Who on earth are the Thai Tims?

Butteries in Bangkok - wonderful, can you buy golden syrup there?

Edited September 15, 2014 by Neeranam

[siampolee]

Ye Gods please a NO vote

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTTfDSUD7E7kNYEDT1vsIuBj_aUnee1ecYBOL1wDRCR1y8jUo0L

This we can live without