British backpacker arrested for suspected murder of fellow Britons at Koh Tao

[JohnThailandJohn]

ThailandJohn

Without resorting to abuse , can you not see that certain aspects of this investigation have appeared somewhat shambolic. Rightly or wrongly there is a perception that the local police are concentrating on foreign suspects , that perception has to change or else Thailands reputation will suffer. It is not a question of whether a Thai commited the crime , its a question of whether local corruption MAY be , directly or indirectly , shielding the guilty.

All most people want to see is justice , regardless of the consequences , that means targeting everybody in an equal fashion , why do you have a problem with this ?

So they should haul some Thais in regardless if there is no evidence pointing in there direction to give an appearance of fairness to prevent you and others from thinking they are doing things for appearance?

[ScotBkk]

Would seem at this stage they got the right man.

It would make sense from a possible motive stance given the crime appears to have been very emotional/personal given the injuries.

Although only speculating ... Not sure any rape was involved and would guess somebody stumbled upon the two having sex and become enraged. Would also suspect what is being called blonde hair was simply translated from light hair (lighter than typical Asian). Also suspect the blood found on his cloths was either transfer or splatter that the suspect and police neither saw initially.

Also sounds a bit similar to the train employee who raped and killed the young girl who explained away his injuries initially only to be arrested days later as more evidence was uncovered.

What right man - Please explain ?????

[slipperylobster]

Is it possible to determine ethnic background from DNA sample?

I doubt anything but preliminary results are back yet and probably just from select blood and semen (which will probably turn out to be from the victim) there is absolutely nothing to indicate the assailant would leave his DNA on the victims. If the hoe was the murder weapon then they might get DNA off of it but it would be a process and have to weed through others whose DNA might be on it who handled the hoe. Despite earlier reports of possible rape, it is very doubtful rape was committed. If reports are accurate, what will be interesting is the DNA results from the blood supposedly found on a clothing article found in the friends suitcase he had when he was trying to board a plane out of the country.

But to answer your question, yes they can get an idea of ethnicity from complete DNA testing ... assuming they have DNA left behind by the person(s) who did this.

Hair has DNA....and she had a fistful.

The accused had a big cut on his hand....a quick scrape of one of the victims fingernails will suffice.

Brits are probably lending advice/assistance and checking the process. (Interpol)

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I can never ever get my head around it. You, don't have any special rights .. can't vote ... in fact non-entities as far as I can see in any legal capacity.

Just to point out, Thais can't vote either, military coup, etc.

[Strangebrew]

Fact is where would a Farang get a hoe as a weapon? point 1 point 2 if a Farang went into an all thai neighbor and stole a hoe You would have all of BIB on him in a heartbeat no work permit thai only job. i still believe it looking as if a Thai went nuts and did this but if proven I would say I'm sorry to thai people . But in the back of my mind there is still the two murders of children here that stand out one stuffed in sewer drain and other kidnapped raped and killed in Bangkok. Or have the good people of Thailand forgotten? Both murders Thai's

[Briggsy]

This morning's BBC report states 11 more Burmese suspects have been rounded up due to "bloodstained clothing" and the two British brothers continue to be unofficially detained in police care.

The pattern continues of keeping the investigation as far away as possible from the locals who live and work on the island and are both bound in and protected by a clear hierarchy which includes the local police.

These consistent statements by the police never referring to locals as witnesses, let alone suspects, leads me to think that there is a place where the police are determined the investigation will not go and that place is any suspicion of or arresting of locals. The fix is in.

[captspectre]

This is directged at Thai Visa: you might want to hire a proof reader for articles such as this. read it and try to make sense of it.

[Kooweerup]

Hasn't this guy been eliminated now and the police have now detained two british brothers?

[xray]

A blood stained hoe without any finger prints on it ?

Prints are set by sweat and do not adhere to everything. It would depend on what the handle of the hoe was made of and was it exposed to outside contamination e.g salt water. If taken from a construction site and may have been handled by multiple workers there would be multiple prints probably all smudged and no good as evidence.

Unless you really want one of them to be.

Fingerprints are also set by oils in the body, as well as other substances, like blood, some foods, etc. There is also the possibilty of the killer's DNA being on the hoe. Yes, saltwater and other types of enviromental contaminents can degrade or destroy both prints and DNA, but I feel in this case, the hoe should certainly have been 'looked at'. Edited September 18, 2014 by xray

[slipperylobster]

Fact is where would a Farang get a hoe as a weapon? point 1 point 2 if a Farang went into an all thai neighbor and stole a hoe You would have all of BIB on him in a heartbeat no work permit thai only job. i still believe it looking as if a Thai went nuts and did this but if proven I would say I'm sorry to thai people . But in the back of my mind there is still the two murders of children here that stand out one stuffed in sewer drain and other kidnapped raped and killed in Bangkok. Or have the good people of Thailand forgotten? Both murders Thai's

Plenty of hoes laying around in Thailand...

[Fred Flinstone]

ThailandJohn

Without resorting to abuse , can you not see that certain aspects of this investigation have appeared somewhat shambolic. Rightly or wrongly there is a perception that the local police are concentrating on foreign suspects , that perception has to change or else Thailands reputation will suffer. It is not a question of whether a Thai commited the crime , its a question of whether local corruption MAY be , directly or indirectly , shielding the guilty.

All most people want to see is justice , regardless of the consequences , that means targeting everybody in an equal fashion , why do you have a problem with this ?

So they should haul some Thais in regardless if there is no evidence pointing in there direction to give an appearance of fairness to prevent you and others from thinking they are doing things for appearance?

No , John .

But its obvious that there needs to be consideration that local Thai men may have plausible cause too , to commit this crime.

Extreme intoxication , and lust, even vengeance over rejection, heated comments , who knows?

Whats desired is deep investigation to all possibilities .

Round up local known drunks, men who were "known prior to police" might be a start.

Not dismissing the possibility out of hand a Thai(s) could have done such horrible things.

Again your blind Faith and knee jerk defence of all things Thai isn't helping the sensible discourse here.

But we get it.

You like to think its us being mean to Thai culture etc..or quick to judge.

No john , look at the murder weapon , time and location.

Odds are a gang did this

[gezginrocker]

Gang rape in Thailand is surprisingly common, almost no Thai girls will go out alone after dark for fear of this.

Girls are raped in their classrooms, on public transport, followed at night, anywhere they can be trapped alone.

It's not spoken about much to foreigners but all the Thais know about it, if a girl gets caught, she keeps quiet as everyone will say it was her own fault. Once caught, they comply with their attackers to avoid being killed.

This horrific attack matches that crime profile, the police will do almost anything to cover this event up.Thailand is not a safe place for any woman after dark.

It's so sad that this happened, because tourists aren't told of the risks in this country.

Are you nuts? Thailand is one of the safest places for women. I am from Turkey, a muslim country, now that's an unsafe country for women. Actually almost all muslim countries are unsafe for women, and also India. But Budhhist countries like Thailand are much more safer than Muslim countries, and probably even more safer than your own country, the States.

Every year thousands of solo women come to Thailand and they travel without any problems or harresment at all. If it was like you described, we would have been hearing countless cases of rape and harrasment against women, but we are not. I don't know if the things you say about gang rape is true or not, but attitute against farang women is certainly not aggressive.

[chiang mai]

This is directged at Thai Visa: you might want to hire a proof reader for articles such as this. read it and try to make sense of it.

Talking of proof reading!

[AYJAYDEE]

ThailandJohn

Without resorting to abuse , can you not see that certain aspects of this investigation have appeared somewhat shambolic. Rightly or wrongly there is a perception that the local police are concentrating on foreign suspects , that perception has to change or else Thailands reputation will suffer. It is not a question of whether a Thai commited the crime , its a question of whether local corruption MAY be , directly or indirectly , shielding the guilty.

All most people want to see is justice , regardless of the consequences , that means targeting everybody in an equal fashion , why do you have a problem with this ?

So they should haul some Thais in regardless if there is no evidence pointing in there direction to give an appearance of fairness to prevent you and others from thinking they are doing things for appearance?

No , John .

But its obvious that there needs to be consideration that local Thai men may have plausible cause too , to commit this crime.

Extreme intoxication , and lust, even vengeance over rejection, heated comments , who knows?

Whats desired is deep investigation to all possibilities .

Round up local known drunks, men who were "known prior to police" might be a start.

Not dismissing the possibility out of hand a Thai(s) could have done such horrible things.

Again your blind Faith and knee jerk defence of all things Thai isn't helping the sensible discourse here.

But we get it.

You like to think its us being mean to Thai culture etc..or quick to judge.

No john , look at the murder weapon , time and location.

Odds are a gang did this

is this dismissal out of hand the official policy of the senior police officials involved in the investigation?

[Dogmatix]

Gang rape in Thailand is surprisingly common, almost no Thai girls will go out alone after dark for fear of this.

Girls are raped in their classrooms, on public transport, followed at night, anywhere they can be trapped alone.

It's not spoken about much to foreigners but all the Thais know about it, if a girl gets caught, she keeps quiet as everyone will say it was her own fault. Once caught, they comply with their attackers to avoid being killed.

This horrific attack matches that crime profile, the police will do almost anything to cover this event up.Thailand is not a safe place for any woman after dark.

It's so sad that this happened, because tourists aren't told of the risks in this country.

The situation is similar to Western countries over 30 years ago. The female rape victim is almost guaranteed to have to report the crime to male officers and be interrogated by male officers, since there are so few female investigators and no rules to make sure they are available to rape victims. The male officers will immediately note any clothing worn by the victim regarded by them as provocative and will proceed to ask the victim in detail about her sex life and number of prior partners in order to establish that she was a slut who asked for it. Added to that is the sense of shame they will feel towards families, colleagues etc and the possibility that the rapist will turn out to be either a policeman, a policeman's son or some other person who has total immunity from the law. Hardly surprising that victims don't want to report rapes.

Rape statistics are already bad in Thailand but represent only the tip of the iceberg.

Yes, tourists should be aware of this reality of paradise. In the 70s and early 80s Thailand was rightly regarded as a dangerous place and many tourists were murdered at or near isolated bungalow resorts in thinly policed places like Phuket and Samui in robberies and rapes. With advent of package tours, lager louts and mass gap year backpacking, people have dropped their guard on the still real dangers, helped by Thai authorities who do their best to cover up crime against tourists.

[farang000999]

Gang rape in Thailand is surprisingly common, almost no Thai girls will go out alone after dark for fear of this.

Girls are raped in their classrooms, on public transport, followed at night, anywhere they can be trapped alone.

Are you nuts? Thailand is one of the safest places for women.

Try consulting with locals before making such an ignorant statement. A lot of things happen that are never reported in English language press - which is notoriously censored.

Edited September 18, 2014 by farang000999

[chiang mai]

Gang rape in Thailand is surprisingly common, almost no Thai girls will go out alone after dark for fear of this.

Girls are raped in their classrooms, on public transport, followed at night, anywhere they can be trapped alone.

It's not spoken about much to foreigners but all the Thais know about it, if a girl gets caught, she keeps quiet as everyone will say it was her own fault. Once caught, they comply with their attackers to avoid being killed.

This horrific attack matches that crime profile, the police will do almost anything to cover this event up.Thailand is not a safe place for any woman after dark.

It's so sad that this happened, because tourists aren't told of the risks in this country.

Rape statistics are already bad in Thailand but represent only the tip of the iceberg.

What statistics are these prey tell?

[Dogmatix]

Unsurprisingly, preliminary DNA test results now released on Thai PBS show that none of the DNA found at the scene matches either the Burmese or Christopher Ware.

So the BiB seem to have been looking in all the wrong places and have probably allowed the real killers to slip through their fingers. Thank heavens for DNA. Without it the police would have already secured a cast iron confession from the Burmese with the standard blow torch to the testicles technique.

[SantiSuk]

In what civilised country does the premiere issue an edict to local enforcement authorities (who are seemingly unreinforced by national and senior enforcement authorities*) that the case has to be solved quickly?

This affair is likely to have unforeseen consequences on Thailand's image that are way beyond the General's imagination.

* Edit: the bit crossed out is withdrawn. That was an assumption by me - there are already too many unsupported assumptions knocking around on this affair!

Edited September 18, 2014 by SantiSuk

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Whats desired is deep investigation to all possibilities .

Round up local known drunks, men who were "known prior to police" might be a start.

Not dismissing the possibility out of hand a Thai(s) could have done such horrible things.

I would suggest rounding up all the local rich Thai's sons, before they move abroad.

Possible motive - wanting sex with an attractive foreign woman, and knowing you will never be caught.

But it's never going to happen, the Thai police have already been bought and paid for.

What other explanation for all the silly accusations by the local police?

Edited September 18, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[farang000999]

Timeline

7 Brumese suspects

2 brother English backpackers who knew them suspects

1 farang in Bangkok strong suspect but not arrested just watched

11 more Burmese suspects because of bloody clothing

1 totally unknown strong suspect because he was running on camera then walking on the same camera later. appears Asian.

Is a 3rd grader conducting the investigation?

Are there absolutely no Thai suspects/witnesses/persons of interest? GMAFB.

Oh yeah and Thai Visa favorite PM Prayuth joining in to condemn the farangs who were killed in early morning hours because the foriegn press makes them think it is okay to wear bikinis in Thailand.

[AYJAYDEE]

Whats desired is deep investigation to all possibilities .

Round up local known drunks, men who were "known prior to police" might be a start.

Not dismissing the possibility out of hand a Thai(s) could have done such horrible things.

I would suggest rounding up all the local rich Thai's sons.

Possible motive - wanting sex with an attractive foreign woman, and knowing you will never be caught.

But it's never going to happen, the Thai police have already been bought and paid for.

What other explanation for all the silly accusations by the local police?

round them up and do what? and feel free to give us your educated guess at the dividing line between local rich and local not rich.

[farang000999]

For those of you asking yourselves

"Is Thailand a good place to raise children"

...

[AYJAYDEE]

Gang rape in Thailand is surprisingly common, almost no Thai girls will go out alone after dark for fear of this.

Girls are raped in their classrooms, on public transport, followed at night, anywhere they can be trapped alone.

Are you nuts? Thailand is one of the safest places for women.

Try consulting with locals before making such an ignorant statement. A lot of things happen that are never reported in English language press - which is notoriously censored.

I'm sure I know as many locals as you do and I havent heard anything like that.

[Harsh Jones]

This won't effect Thailand tourism at all.

Remember the two dead Canadian girls a couple years ago ? That was supposed to be the nail in the cofin for Thai tourism. People will continue to travel here in droves.

Thailand has the beaches, the romance of the 3rd world chaos. People want to come no matter what and they will continue to.

[guzzi850m2]

Young blond women from the West should be extremely careful here, some Thais see rape as only option to ever have sex with a blond girl (if you can call it that) and as we have seen many times, they often act and don't care about the consequences.

Some Thai ladies are know to have been dragged out of their cars after dark and raped and they are so ashamed about it that they choose to keep quiet about it.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Whats desired is deep investigation to all possibilities .

Round up local known drunks, men who were "known prior to police" might be a start.

Not dismissing the possibility out of hand a Thai(s) could have done such horrible things.

I would suggest rounding up all the local rich Thai's sons.

Possible motive - wanting sex with an attractive foreign woman, and knowing you will never be caught.

But it's never going to happen, the Thai police have already been bought and paid for.

What other explanation for all the silly accusations by the local police?

round them up and do what? and feel free to give us your educated guess at the dividing line between local rich and local not rich.

I was making a facetious reply to Fred, who seemed to think drunks and criminals more likely to rape than rich kids.

Rape in Thailand is a crime of opportunity, and almost every young male Thai will have a go, if he thinks he can get away with it.

[7Heaven]

Whats desired is deep investigation to all possibilities .

Round up local known drunks, men who were "known prior to police" might be a start.

Not dismissing the possibility out of hand a Thai(s) could have done such horrible things.

I would suggest rounding up all the local rich Thai's sons, before they move abroad.

Possible motive - wanting sex with an attractive foreign woman, and knowing you will never be caught.

But it's never going to happen, the Thai police have already been bought and paid for.

What other explanation for all the silly accusations by the local police?

If they now know they can rape with impunity, why kill her

And looks like the wealthy in the United States also may escape punishment, or do you think OJ Simpson and Michael Jacksson was innocent

[chiang mai]

Timeline

7 Brumese suspects

2 brother English backpackers who knew them suspects

1 farang in Bangkok strong suspect but not arrested just watched

11 more Burmese suspects because of bloody clothing

1 totally unknown strong suspect because he was running on camera then walking on the same camera later. appears Asian.

Is a 3rd grader conducting the investigation?

Are there absolutely no Thai suspects/witnesses/persons of interest? GMAFB.

Oh yeah and Thai Visa favorite PM Prayuth joining in to condemn the farangs who were killed in early morning hours because the foriegn press makes them think it is okay to wear bikinis in Thailand.

In this wonderful wolrd of misquotes and conspiracy theories that is Thai Visa, let's set the record straight yet again.

The good General did not say such a thing, he merely asked the question:

"Speaking in a live broadcast today discussing tourist safety, he said: “There are always problems with tourist safety. They think our country is beautiful and is safe so they can do whatever they want, they can wear bikinis and walk everywhere,” according to the AFP news agency.

He added: “Can they be safe in bikinis... unless they are not beautiful?”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/thailand-beach-murders-thai-pm-suggests-attractive-female-tourists-cannot-expect-to-be-safe-in-bikinis-9737016.html

And actually I think he was merely verbalizing what many people are thinking. Thailand, despite its many adult distractions, is a reserved culture, people, females especially do not roam the streets semi naked, Just because it's OK to do that in Benidorm and Miami, does it mean it's an OK thing to do that here in Thailand, after all, westerners wouldn't consider doing similar in ultra conservative countries - the issue is not black and white, it's a matter of degrees in terms of conservatism of a particular country.

Right, fire away.

[daveAustin]

Good to hear the Burmese were cleared. For quick closure I hope the evidence ends with the backpacker. Less damage to Thailand's identity for visitors. At least every inch of a break that Thailand gets now is a good break.

One of the most ridiculous comments I've read on this site in a while. Screw Thailand's identity, as you call it. A lot of bad things have gone on here of late and the locals are capable of unspeakable evil. If indeed it was them behind this, then the place deserves to get dragged through the mud after the way all n sundry have carried on, including the 'PM'. I would be very surprised if a westerner did this, not because I am one but because of the type of murder. It has local gang violence written all over it. The hoe is a huge giveaway.

It also makes me cringe the way this has made big news in the Thai media, but absolutely no mention of Thais being taken in, nothing but 'a Thai person couldn't possibly have done this' blah blah. Yuck!! This place will eventually dig its own grave by ending up on all sorts of gov advisories.