Koh Tao headman offers Bt1m cash if evidence proves his family implicated in the tourist murder

[lucaswallachia]

Is that the same police who identified a lady on CCTV who was thai as a foreignor..

The same police who declared a thai could never have done this..

The same police who chased Sean into 7/11..

The same police who declared the supect had fled to bangkok then it turns out he has an alibi..Do you think it would make sense to DNA test him, just in case one of his friends or all of them might be lying..

The same police who allowed Mon on the crime scene to stand over and stare at the exposed bodies..

The same poilce who is apparemtly next to him in that crime scene..

Or is it the policeman that chased Sean into 7/11 with Mon the owner...

The same police who released the photos...

The same police that said they were unable to tell is she had been sexually assaulted yet the photos they released show that she was raped AFTER she was murdered...

Do you really think we can believe these police?

Can you please tell us a few things the police have said that are actually true in this case???

Toatal disgrace, you should be ashamed for trying to defend all this BS..

This guy offers a millin fricken baht if they are guilty...what an arrogant <deleted>..

If they are found guilty it will cost them a lot more in disgrace and loss of face and business....

In fact I think that has happened already....

Spot on. The rest of you should be ashamed.

How do you know from the photos she was raped after she was murdered?

[ScubaPhuket]

From my few personal experiences with Thai cops and investigations:

>>> I once went with cops to try and find some things which had been stolen from me. We got to a house of the g.f. of the thief. Cops didn't want to go in. The woman came out. I asked if I could look around inside her house. She looked at the cops and reluctantly said, 'ok.' I found some of my stolen items in her house. If I hadn't taken the initiate to go in the house, nothing would have been found.

>>> another time, similar scenario. I was with cops and we cornered a suspect. I asked to see his wallet. It had a falang woman's ID in it and another farang's ATM card. Again, those things wouldn't have been found if the process had been left up to the Thai cops who were right there.

there are other cases I could cite.

Three things Thai cops are good at: getting money (if there is money recovered by cops from thieves, it's certain a portion will wind up in the cops' pockets). The other factor is hitting. Thai cops are good at hitting a suspect who they have just taken in to custody. Resistance is futile.

Some other things Thai cops are good at:

>>>> not thinking outside the box. They'll talk talk talk to suspects, but won't ask tough probing questions. Reason? You never want anyone to lose face. They're good at avoiding embarrassing situations. Every Thai knows in their bone marrow what's correct and what's mai supap (not proper). So, when cops interview a big shot like Chaleum (where is your son?) or the Pu Yai Ban (village headman) they are incapable of asking tough (really probing) questions or VIPs. Because Thailand's social classes are so extremely stratified, the insignificants can get hit and the Big Shots are untouchable.

>>>> Not picking up on possible clues and evidence.

That's half the reason Thai cops didn't want the FBI or Scotland Yard involved in this case. Thai cops don't want any VIP's losing face.

If the murderers are Thai then Thai cops are going to be the best at gaining the information for their capture. Thai police have an entire network of informants.

Scotland Yard? Why would a Thai tell Scotland Yard anything?

Again you're missing the point.

Number one it would not be a 'Scotland Yard' investigation if the UK were involved. If you're American & need to compare the FBI to a British unit compare them to MI5. Scotland Yard is just Police HQ London, deals with day to day crimes in the City Of London.

Number two, investigations are not concentrated on witness statements. They're just a very small part of an investigation.

I don't want to be patronising but.... how old are you?

Edited September 25, 2014 by ScubaPhuket

[ClutchClark]

Fourth, sean mcanna looks like a druggie and his story sounds like drug-induced paranoia more than anything. Some people here have even considered him a suspicious character.

Next.

You'd be hard pressed to find anyone, backpacker or not, who is not a druggie - except perhaps me, as I don't do any drugs other than an aspirin once in awhile. But trying to throw smut at Sean McAnna is low class. It matters little what his past history has been. To be trying to besmirch him makes it sounds more like the besmircher is hiding something or somebody. If I were investigating this heinous crime, I would welcome such evidence as Sean is putting forth. And I respect his courage for doing so. Lesser men would run and hide. It doesn't surprise me that much of the pertinent info on this crime are coming from a farang. It accentuates how Thais (who know things) aren't stepping up and doing what's right. With 34 years familiarity with Thailand, it doesn't surprise me that Thais are not telling the truth and/or telling what they know or suspect - which could aid investigators.

I wish the lead cop would come up to me and say something like, "Ok, Mr. Wise Guy. You farang think you're so smart and can solve this crime - Ok, go ahead, you do it." ....and really mean it. I'd say, "Ok, put me in charge. I'd like someone like Ms Porntip on my team plus a few able assistants which she can pick." Then I'd arrest some prime suspects and get the ball rolling towards convictions.

All I know about Sean mcanna is that it was stated on here that he was witnessed to have blood on his clothing and what he himself has volunteered about locals trying to murder him. A very wild story that borders on disbelief.

You have certainly been in Thailand a long time. I have found sometimes that TV posters are stuck in an old paradigm. Whether that paradigm is accurate or not is not for me say.

This gruesome event has certainly enraged the British members of this forum, it seems to have allowed certain contempts for this culture to surface. Emotional motivations are long known to cloud an investigation compared to logical and dispassionate observation. Your Scotland Yard would no doubt agree with this.

[ClutchClark]

From my few personal experiences with Thai cops and investigations:

>>> I once went with cops to try and find some things which had been stolen from me. We got to a house of the g.f. of the thief. Cops didn't want to go in. The woman came out. I asked if I could look around inside her house. She looked at the cops and reluctantly said, 'ok.' I found some of my stolen items in her house. If I hadn't taken the initiate to go in the house, nothing would have been found.

>>> another time, similar scenario. I was with cops and we cornered a suspect. I asked to see his wallet. It had a falang woman's ID in it and another farang's ATM card. Again, those things wouldn't have been found if the process had been left up to the Thai cops who were right there.

there are other cases I could cite.

Three things Thai cops are good at: getting money (if there is money recovered by cops from thieves, it's certain a portion will wind up in the cops' pockets). The other factor is hitting. Thai cops are good at hitting a suspect who they have just taken in to custody. Resistance is futile.

Some other things Thai cops are good at:

>>>> not thinking outside the box. They'll talk talk talk to suspects, but won't ask tough probing questions. Reason? You never want anyone to lose face. They're good at avoiding embarrassing situations. Every Thai knows in their bone marrow what's correct and what's mai supap (not proper). So, when cops interview a big shot like Chaleum (where is your son?) or the Pu Yai Ban (village headman) they are incapable of asking tough (really probing) questions or VIPs. Because Thailand's social classes are so extremely stratified, the insignificants can get hit and the Big Shots are untouchable.

>>>> Not picking up on possible clues and evidence.

That's half the reason Thai cops didn't want the FBI or Scotland Yard involved in this case. Thai cops don't want any VIP's losing face.

If the murderers are Thai then Thai cops are going to be the best at gaining the information for their capture. Thai police have an entire network of informants.

Scotland Yard? Why would a Thai tell Scotland Yard anything?

Again you're missing the point.

Number one it would not be a 'Scotland Yard' investigation if the UK were involved. If you're American & need to compare the FBI to a British unit compare them to MI5.

Number two, investigations are not concentrated on witness statements. They're just a very small part of an investigation.

I don't want to be patronising but.... how old are you?

Others had mentioned Scotland Yard so I took them at their knowledge. Until quite recently, our FBI was a domestic police organization. That has only recently changed with global terrorism threat.

Big difference between witness statements and informant information. I clearly indicated the latter.

And so I ask you again, why would a Thai respond to MI5 positively? Why would they respond to MI5? Because they love farang?

Please answer these questions instead of just continuing with the personal attacks, eh.

[beautifulthailand99]

Sounds like a wonderful little paradise island. One farangs inside story of the island's mafia.

https://gibsongoesgulu.wordpress.com/2014/09/25/toasted/

[dealthedice]

"British backpackers Hannah Witheridge and David Miller may have been arguing with a local gangster when they were brutally murdered in Thailand last week, it has been suggested. The pair, who met on the island of Koh Tao where they were both staying with friends, may have fallen victim to a criminal 'underbelly' which, locals say, no one is speaking out about for fear of their own lives."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2764038/Did-Thai-murder-victims-argue-island-gangster-hour-brutally-killed-Locals-claim-no-one-speak-scared.html

These are still the most believable and important bits available this far, as far as I'm concerned. Probably lots of witnesses, since there were rumors that the quoted events took place in bar (AC Bar, right?), but none's talking.

How long walk is it from AC Bar the the scene of murder, anyway? Short, I assume?

I mean, how likely is it that this murder would be totally random, without murderer(s) priorly having met Hannah (or David) at all?

How likely - especially - when considering the trip between AC bar and scene of the murder is short (correct me if I'm wrong), and the events took place almost next to some party, anyway?

How likely is it, that it was some totally random person, who hadn't been in the party/the bar, and just happened to wander with few pals within Hannah's and David's short walking trip towards bungaloes?

I think, it's rather very unlikely.

I'm almost certain that murderer(s) have met Hannah before, assumedly the same night. Thus, they must have been following her from the bar. Usually things like this don't happen without previous argument of some sort either, so probably the argument has taken place just previously, assumedly in the bar. It doesn't need to be very big argument on places like this, especially if it's about gangsters. I mean, just find some videos of drunk farangs getting sht beaten out of them for little things. Now, the reports say that there probably has been argument, and there must have been witnesses to this, so this is more than likely the argument that has fired up things prior to the murders (yet locals aren't "speaking out about for fear of their own lives").

[ScubaPhuket]

From my few personal experiences with Thai cops and investigations:

>>> I once went with cops to try and find some things which had been stolen from me. We got to a house of the g.f. of the thief. Cops didn't want to go in. The woman came out. I asked if I could look around inside her house. She looked at the cops and reluctantly said, 'ok.' I found some of my stolen items in her house. If I hadn't taken the initiate to go in the house, nothing would have been found.

>>> another time, similar scenario. I was with cops and we cornered a suspect. I asked to see his wallet. It had a falang woman's ID in it and another farang's ATM card. Again, those things wouldn't have been found if the process had been left up to the Thai cops who were right there.

there are other cases I could cite.

Three things Thai cops are good at: getting money (if there is money recovered by cops from thieves, it's certain a portion will wind up in the cops' pockets). The other factor is hitting. Thai cops are good at hitting a suspect who they have just taken in to custody. Resistance is futile.

Some other things Thai cops are good at:

>>>> not thinking outside the box. They'll talk talk talk to suspects, but won't ask tough probing questions. Reason? You never want anyone to lose face. They're good at avoiding embarrassing situations. Every Thai knows in their bone marrow what's correct and what's mai supap (not proper). So, when cops interview a big shot like Chaleum (where is your son?) or the Pu Yai Ban (village headman) they are incapable of asking tough (really probing) questions or VIPs. Because Thailand's social classes are so extremely stratified, the insignificants can get hit and the Big Shots are untouchable.

>>>> Not picking up on possible clues and evidence.

That's half the reason Thai cops didn't want the FBI or Scotland Yard involved in this case. Thai cops don't want any VIP's losing face.

If the murderers are Thai then Thai cops are going to be the best at gaining the information for their capture. Thai police have an entire network of informants.

Scotland Yard? Why would a Thai tell Scotland Yard anything?

Again you're missing the point.

Number one it would not be a 'Scotland Yard' investigation if the UK were involved. If you're American & need to compare the FBI to a British unit compare them to MI5.

Number two, investigations are not concentrated on witness statements. They're just a very small part of an investigation.

I don't want to be patronising but.... how old are you?

Others had mentioned Scotland Yard so I took them at their knowledge. Until quite recently, our FBI was a domestic police organization. That has only recently changed with global terrorism threat.

Big difference between witness statements and informant information. I clearly indicated the latter.

And so I ask you again, why would a Thai respond to MI5 positively? Why would they respond to MI5? Because they love farang?

Please answer these questions instead of just continuing with the personal attacks, eh.

MI5 would not directly ask any thai any question.

Do yourself a favour & google search investigative technique before you ask these questions.

[ClutchClark]

Fourth, sean mcanna looks like a druggie and his story sounds like drug-induced paranoia more than anything. Some people here have even considered him a suspicious character.

Next.

You've never taken drugs? You must be the only one.

Sounds to me like you're the paranoid one, not Sean McAnna.

No, my generation was not fond of drugs, particularly in the rural west where I was raised and call home. Sean looks like a meth head and if you don't recognize his behavior and claims as strange crazy talk then I gave you far more credit than you deserve.

You'd have to elaborate on your accusation of me being paranoid before I can offer a counterpoint.

I don't intend to offer a 'counterpoint' because after reading your posts you're using this thread amongst others to satisfy your need for argument.

Not the right place sir.

So an close associate of deceased is reported to have blood on his clothing the night of a gruesome and bloody murder and then leaves the country after some paranoid episode that people are trying to kill him.

Yet he remained on the island another 12 or more hours and no one attempted to kill him.

I simply mention these reported details in response to a poster that had mentioned his credibility and you say I am off topic.

You are free not to read my posts.

[CharlieH]

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

Post removed.

[Bwanatickey]

This story will not go away.

The Hierarchy have failed to grasp this.

[ClutchClark]

From my few personal experiences with Thai cops and investigations:

Some other things Thai cops are good at:

>>>> not thinking outside the box. They'll talk talk talk to suspects, but won't ask tough probing questions. Reason? You never want anyone to lose face. They're good at avoiding embarrassing situations. Every Thai knows in their bone marrow what's correct and what's mai supap (not proper). So, when cops interview a big shot like Chaleum (where is your son?) or the Pu Yai Ban (village headman) they are incapable of asking tough (really probing) questions or VIPs. Because Thailand's social classes are so extremely stratified, the insignificants can get hit and the Big Shots are untouchable.

>>>> Not picking up on possible clues and evidence.

That's half the reason Thai cops didn't want the FBI or Scotland Yard involved in this case. Thai cops don't want any VIP's losing face.

If the murderers are Thai then Thai cops are going to be the best at gaining the information for their capture. Thai police have an entire network of informants.

Scotland Yard? Why would a Thai tell Scotland Yard anything?

Others had mentioned Scotland Yard so I took them at their knowledge. Until quite recently, our FBI was a domestic police organization. That has only recently changed with global terrorism threat.

Big difference between witness statements and informant information. I clearly indicated the latter.

And so I ask you again, why would a Thai respond to MI5 positively? Why would they respond to MI5? Because they love farang?

Please answer these questions instead of just continuing with the personal attacks, eh.

MI5 would not directly ask any thai any question.

Would you please read the original quote above that you have lept into.

The poster was clearly stating why Thai police should not be allowed to be participate in questioning Thai people.

Now you are saying that MI5 would also not be asking direct questions.

So who exactly is left to ask questions of Thais to further the investigation?

Edited September 25, 2014 by ClutchClark

[Gallstone]

Mon would probably be allowed on the crime scene with the police because he is a senior figure on the island. Cant see how that implicates him just being there.

[ScubaPhuket]

"British backpackers Hannah Witheridge and David Miller may have been arguing with a local gangster when they were brutally murdered in Thailand last week, it has been suggested. The pair, who met on the island of Koh Tao where they were both staying with friends, may have fallen victim to a criminal 'underbelly' which, locals say, no one is speaking out about for fear of their own lives."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2764038/Did-Thai-murder-victims-argue-island-gangster-hour-brutally-killed-Locals-claim-no-one-speak-scared.html

These are still the most believable and important bits available this far, as far as I'm concerned. Probably lots of witnesses, since there were rumors that the quoted events took place in bar (AC Bar, right?), but none's talking.

How long walk is it from AC Bar the the scene of murder, anyway? Short, I assume?

I mean, how likely is it that this murder would be totally random, without murderer(s) priorly having met Hannah (or David) at all?

How likely - especially - when considering the trip between AC bar and scene of the murder is short (correct me if I'm wrong), and the events took place almost next to some party, anyway?

How likely is it, that it was some totally random person, who hadn't been in the party/the bar, and just happened to wander with few pals within Hannah's and David's short walking trip towards bungaloes?

I think, it's rather very unlikely.

I'm almost certain that murderer(s) have met Hannah before, assumedly the same night. Thus, they must have been following her from the bar. Usually things like this don't happen without previous argument of some sort either, so probably the argument has taken place just previously, assumedly in the bar. It doesn't need to be very big argument on places like this, especially if it's about gangsters. I mean, just find some videos of drunk farangs getting sht beaten out of them for little things. Now, the reports say that there probably has been argument, and there must have been witnesses to this, so this is more than likely the argument that has fired up things prior to the murders (yet locals aren't "speaking out about for fear of their own lives").

1. How long walk is it from AC Bar the the scene of murder, anyway? Short, I assume?

Very short, 2 minutes strolling.

2. I mean, how likely is it that this murder would be totally random, without murderer(s) priorly having met Hannah (or David) at all?

Police ask themselves this question every day.

3 How likely is it, that it was some totally random person, who hadn't been in the party/the bar, and just happened to wander with few pals within Hannah's and David's short walking trip towards bungaloes?

Very very low. You'd have to be a psychopath to do this. You should note however that Thailand claims that it does not have any psychopaths.

[lucaswallachia]

Sounds like a wonderful little paradise island. One farangs inside story of the island's mafia.

https://gibsongoesgulu.wordpress.com/2014/09/25/toasted/

Thats interesting about the cab drivers all having guns. Maybe David was made to strip at gun point.

[joecoolfrog]

Well the village headman certainly comes across as arrogant , touchy and self important , not a pleasant combination in anybody !

[ScubaPhuket]

I've just opened this thread again http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/763027-last-picture-of-british-backpackers-murdered-on-koh-tao-island/

& I'm feeling very angry that thailand has destroyed 2 very beautiful people.

Thais are allowed to live safely & with full protection in our western societies (20,000 thais in London I believe) yet thailand does not offer westeners the same respect & protection in their country.

Something should be done.

Edited September 25, 2014 by ScubaPhuket

[dealthedice]

"British backpackers Hannah Witheridge and David Miller may have been arguing with a local gangster when they were brutally murdered in Thailand last week, it has been suggested. The pair, who met on the island of Koh Tao where they were both staying with friends, may have fallen victim to a criminal 'underbelly' which, locals say, no one is speaking out about for fear of their own lives."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2764038/Did-Thai-murder-victims-argue-island-gangster-hour-brutally-killed-Locals-claim-no-one-speak-scared.html

These are still the most believable and important bits available this far, as far as I'm concerned. Probably lots of witnesses, since there were rumors that the quoted events took place in bar (AC Bar, right?), but none's talking.

How long walk is it from AC Bar the the scene of murder, anyway? Short, I assume?

I mean, how likely is it that this murder would be totally random, without murderer(s) priorly having met Hannah (or David) at all?

How likely - especially - when considering the trip between AC bar and scene of the murder is short (correct me if I'm wrong), and the events took place almost next to some party, anyway?

How likely is it, that it was some totally random person, who hadn't been in the party/the bar, and just happened to wander with few pals within Hannah's and David's short walking trip towards bungaloes?

I think, it's rather very unlikely.

I'm almost certain that murderer(s) have met Hannah before, assumedly the same night. Thus, they must have been following her from the bar. Usually things like this don't happen without previous argument of some sort either, so probably the argument has taken place just previously, assumedly in the bar. It doesn't need to be very big argument on places like this, especially if it's about gangsters. I mean, just find some videos of drunk farangs getting sht beaten out of them for little things. Now, the reports say that there probably has been argument, and there must have been witnesses to this, so this is more than likely the argument that has fired up things prior to the murders (yet locals aren't "speaking out about for fear of their own lives").

1. How long walk is it from AC Bar the the scene of murder, anyway? Short, I assume?

Very short, 2 minutes strolling.

2. I mean, how likely is it that this murder would be totally random, without murderer(s) priorly having met Hannah (or David) at all?

Police ask themselves this question every day.

3 How likely is it, that it was some totally random person, who hadn't been in the party/the bar, and just happened to wander with few pals within Hannah's and David's short walking trip towards bungaloes?

Very very low. You'd have to be a psychopath to do this. You should note however that Thailand claims that it does not have any psychopaths.

Thanks for the replies.

Since the trip between the bar they left, and the murder scene, is so short.. the murderers (2 murder weapons, so at least two suspects) have had to make the decision and act quickly. They were savage and brutal, quick, and acted as a pack. I don't think anyone other than a total psychopath would be able to act so quickly and cold-blooded, having just seen Hannah and David for the first time ever. But two (or more), as a pack? Doubt it. The decision wasn't made at the murder scene within a second, by more than one man, without any prior argument of any kind. It had to start up earlier, and they had to be followed.

Ever wonder why David was holding Hannah's hand (caught on the video shortly before the murders)? Just another dumb speculation, but Hannah could had been scared after the assumed argument (or some other reason), thus David holding her hand for sign of protection?

Edited September 25, 2014 by dealthedice

[boomerangutang]

Fourth, sean mcanna looks like a druggie and his story sounds like drug-induced paranoia more than anything. Some people here have even considered him a suspicious character. Next.

You've never taken drugs? You must be the only one.

Sounds to me like you're the paranoid one, not Sean McAnna.

No, my generation was not fond of drugs, particularly in the rural west where I was raised and call home. Sean looks like a meth head and if you don't recognize his behavior and claims as strange crazy talk then I gave you far more credit than you deserve.

'rural west'? ...of the US? There are as many druggies and alchies per sq.mile there as anywhere else except maybe Russia. Still, let go of trying to belittle the testimony of the backpacker. It sounds like you're trying to shield someone by dragging the guy through the mud. He doesn't have to be an upstanding citizen to be able to contribute to finding the killers. And who claimed he had blood on his clothing? I don't think that was officially stated anywhere.

Mon would probably be allowed on the crime scene with the police because he is a senior figure on the island. Cant see how that implicates him just being there.

There are other things which implicate him. However, some of those things have surfaced in the days since that photo was taken of him at the scene of the crime (so perhaps that excuses the police for allowing him to stroll around the crime scene). Even so, that's usually taught on the first day of Crime Investigation 101: cordon-off the crime scene and don't allow it to be compromised by anyone who isn't professionally involved with the investigation.

[Tokay]

Considering all the recent suspects have refused to give DNA samples, and that is OK with the police, then there will be no justice for the killers. Not that there was a real chance anyway, but it's a lost cause at this point I'm afraid.

[joecoolfrog]

I posted on the very first ; " Thailand will be judged not on the murders but the response to them " All I can say is that the response has been extremely poor , perhaps that is not entirely unexpected. What has really disgusted me has been the hardline apologists who simply wont concede that patronage and corruption may just mean that justice will never be served !

[LanceGringo]

"British backpackers Hannah Witheridge and David Miller may have been arguing with a local gangster when they were brutally murdered in Thailand last week, it has been suggested. The pair, who met on the island of Koh Tao where they were both staying with friends, may have fallen victim to a criminal 'underbelly' which, locals say, no one is speaking out about for fear of their own lives."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2764038/Did-Thai-murder-victims-argue-island-gangster-hour-brutally-killed-Locals-claim-no-one-speak-scared.html

These are still the most believable and important bits available this far, as far as I'm concerned. Probably lots of witnesses, since there were rumors that the quoted events took place in bar (AC Bar, right?), but none's talking.

How long walk is it from AC Bar the the scene of murder, anyway? Short, I assume?

I mean, how likely is it that this murder would be totally random, without murderer(s) priorly having met Hannah (or David) at all?

How likely - especially - when considering the trip between AC bar and scene of the murder is short (correct me if I'm wrong), and the events took place almost next to some party, anyway?

How likely is it, that it was some totally random person, who hadn't been in the party/the bar, and just happened to wander with few pals within Hannah's and David's short walking trip towards bungaloes?

I think, it's rather very unlikely.

I'm almost certain that murderer(s) have met Hannah before, assumedly the same night. Thus, they must have been following her from the bar. Usually things like this don't happen without previous argument of some sort either, so probably the argument has taken place just previously, assumedly in the bar. It doesn't need to be very big argument on places like this, especially if it's about gangsters. I mean, just find some videos of drunk farangs getting sht beaten out of them for little things. Now, the reports say that there probably has been argument, and there must have been witnesses to this, so this is more than likely the argument that has fired up things prior to the murders (yet locals aren't "speaking out about for fear of their own lives").

1. How long walk is it from AC Bar the the scene of murder, anyway? Short, I assume?

Very short, 2 minutes strolling.

2. I mean, how likely is it that this murder would be totally random, without murderer(s) priorly having met Hannah (or David) at all?

Police ask themselves this question every day.

3 How likely is it, that it was some totally random person, who hadn't been in the party/the bar, and just happened to wander with few pals within Hannah's and David's short walking trip towards bungaloes?

Very very low. You'd have to be a psychopath to do this. You should note however that Thailand claims that it does not have any psychopaths.

Thanks for the replies.

Since the trip between the bar they left, and the murder scene, is so short.. the murderers (2 murder weapons, so at least two suspects) have had to make the decision and act quickly. They were savage and brutal, quick, and acted as a pack. I don't think anyone other than a total psychopath would be able to act so quickly and cold-blooded, having just seen Hannah and David for the first time ever. But two (or more), as a pack? Doubt it. The decision wasn't made at the murder scene within a second, by more than one man, without any prior argument of any kind. It had to start up earlier, and they had to be followed.

Ever wonder why David was holding Hannah's hand (caught on the video shortly before the murders)? Just another dumb speculation, but Hannah could had been scared after the assumed argument (or some other reason), thus David holding her hand for sign of protection?

That wasn't them holding hands in the CCTV footage, it was two other people

[ClutchClark]

Fourth, sean mcanna looks like a druggie and his story sounds like drug-induced paranoia more than anything. Some people here have even considered him a suspicious character. Next.

You've never taken drugs? You must be the only one.

Sounds to me like you're the paranoid one, not Sean McAnna.

No, my generation was not fond of drugs, particularly in the rural west where I was raised and call home. Sean looks like a meth head and if you don't recognize his behavior and claims as strange crazy talk then I gave you far more credit than you deserve.

'rural west'? ...of the US? There are as many druggies and alchies per sq.mile there as anywhere else except maybe Russia. Still, let go of trying to belittle the testimony of the backpacker. It sounds like you're trying to shield someone by dragging the guy through the mud. He doesn't have to be an upstanding citizen to be able to contribute to finding the killers. And who claimed he had blood on his clothing? I don't think that was officially stated anywhere.

Boom,

Your observation about alcohol in the West has always been true.

Your observation about the Western drug culture is correct today; however, it is not correct to assume it has always been that way. Hard drugs (Horse) were in Denver back in the 50's and mary jane arrived with the hippy movement of the late 60's to college towns; however, it was later to arrive in rural colorado. You will find almost everyone of my generation out there to be very much against hard drugs like crystal meth or yabba.

Today the I-80 corridor in WY and the I-25 corridor is a terrible thoroughfare for crystal meth.

I am not dragging him through the mud. Read his own statements about being pursued. He is obviously not thinking clearly. He looks like a tweaker to me and others on tV have made similar observations.

I am not sure how to respond to your claim I am hiding knowledge of this crime except to say that its far fetched enough to suggest it might be time for you to clear your head with a nice walk.

Cheers

Edited September 25, 2014 by ClutchClark

[ScubaPhuket]

I posted on the very first ; " Thailand will be judged not on the murders but the response to them " All I can say is that the response has been extremely poor , perhaps that is not entirely unexpected. What has really disgusted me has been the hardline apologists who simply wont concede that patronage and corruption may just mean that justice will never be served !

I agree with you. I feel disgusted to admit that I'm a British citizen at the moment. The UK should be doing a LOT more. They're ordering airstrikes yet completely ignoring these murders.

Edited September 25, 2014 by ScubaPhuket

[dealthedice]

I've been in Thailand (only) twice. I've yet to see much outside the major cities. Only been on islands once. Mostly, I have good experiences... mostly. I say this, because they aren't always friendly even if you try your best.

Anyway. This is confusing me badly... which is actually more safe: major cities such as Pattaya and Phuket (assuming you stay near the tourist-areas), or smaller cities and islands etc.? I've read about pretty bad things happening to farangs in all of them, muggings (with several assailants) etc. I guess I've never seen the worst personally, luckily. One thing is certain, though. No minor argument gives right to anyone attack as a pack brutally and kill anyone, not to mention the horrific ways such as in this case. I believe in "an eye for an eye", though. That's about the only thing where I would let someone be killed this way.

These murders and some other things I've read/seen online have made me seriously doubting about visiting the third time... not even "police" can be trusted. Then who guarantees our safety?

Greetings from FIN.

[MJP]

I posted on the very first ; " Thailand will be judged not on the murders but the response to them " All I can say is that the response has been extremely poor , perhaps that is not entirely unexpected. What has really disgusted me has been the hardline apologists who simply wont concede that patronage and corruption may just mean that justice will never be served !

Yes Joe it disgusts me too.

Some of these posters should know better than to accuse those who highlight the patronage system being the root cause of the problems in Thailand as being "Thai bashers".

The patronage system is a parasite feeding off the Thai people and returns only misery to them.

The true impact of this evil only becomes apparent to expats and others when people like David and Hannah also become victims of it.

Thailand is not a safe country so long as a proportion of their population know they can literally get away with murder.

Edited September 25, 2014 by MJP

[Khonper]

I hope every tourist will NOT travel to this country for the next 5 yrs ..hit the bastards where it hurts their pockets let them cry for tourism to return to normal. Maybe then they will stop treating us like shit. Hating them all more and more each day.

So when will you be leaving?

[ClutchClark]

The patronage system is a parasite feeding off the Thai people and returns only misery to them.

The true impact of this evil only becomes apparent to expats and others when people like David and Hannah also become victims of it.

Thailand is not a safe country so long as a proportion of their population know they can literally get away with murder.

MJ,

It is not for a farang to tell Thailand how they should manage their value system or their societal norms any more than vacationers thinking they have a right to tell Britain the same.

The Thai people seem pretty content and not miserable so That claim seems to be refuted by simple observation. My Thai wife got a good laugh at your claim but she shakes her head at so much of what is said about Thai on TV.

To suggest David & Hannah are a victim of that evil unique to Thailand as observed by a Westerner such as yourself suggests that violent crime does not occur in your own country where you apparently do not have a patronage system.

I would whole-heartedly agree that Thailand is not a safe country.

[ScubaPhuket]

I posted on the very first ; " Thailand will be judged not on the murders but the response to them " All I can say is that the response has been extremely poor , perhaps that is not entirely unexpected. What has really disgusted me has been the hardline apologists who simply wont concede that patronage and corruption may just mean that justice will never be served !

Yes Joe it disgusts me too.

Some of these posters should know better than to accuse those who highlight the patronage system being the root cause of the problems in Thailand as being "Thai bashers".

The patronage system is a parasite feeding off the Thai people and returns only misery to them.

The true impact of this evil only becomes apparent to expats and others when people like David and Hannah also become victims of it.

Thailand is not a safe country so long as a proportion of their population know they can literally get away with murder.

QFE & fixed:

"Thailand is NOT A SAFE COUNTRY so long as a proportion (100%) of their population know they can literally GET AWAY WITH MURDER.

Personally I'm very seriously considering divorce over this because my thai wife refuses to believe that a thai is responsible.

Brainwashed by thai TV.

Edited September 25, 2014 by ScubaPhuket

[MJP]

The patronage system is a parasite feeding off the Thai people and returns only misery to them.

The true impact of this evil only becomes apparent to expats and others when people like David and Hannah also become victims of it.

Thailand is not a safe country so long as a proportion of their population know they can literally get away with murder.

MJ,

It is not for a farang to tell Thailand how they should manage their value system or their societal norms any more than vacationers thinking they have a right to tell Britain the same.

The Thai people seem pretty content and not miserable so That claim seems to be refuted by simple observation. My Thai wife got a good laugh at your claim but she shakes her head at so much of what is said about Thai on TV.

To suggest David & Hannah are a victim of that evil unique to Thailand as observed by a Westerner such as yourself suggests that violent crime does not occur in your own country where you apparently do not have a patronage system.

I would whole-heartedly agree that Thailand is not a safe country.

They're not content. Why do you think there's now a junta in charge? The country was on the brink of civil war over exactly what I've outlined above.

David and Hannah certainly are victims of the patronage system. With all the evidence to date I really can't come to any other conclusion.

[MJP]

I posted on the very first ; " Thailand will be judged not on the murders but the response to them " All I can say is that the response has been extremely poor , perhaps that is not entirely unexpected. What has really disgusted me has been the hardline apologists who simply wont concede that patronage and corruption may just mean that justice will never be served !

Yes Joe it disgusts me too.

Some of these posters should know better than to accuse those who highlight the patronage system being the root cause of the problems in Thailand as being "Thai bashers".

The patronage system is a parasite feeding off the Thai people and returns only misery to them.

The true impact of this evil only becomes apparent to expats and others when people like David and Hannah also become victims of it.

Thailand is not a safe country so long as a proportion of their population know they can literally get away with murder.

QFE & fixed:

"Thailand is NOT A SAFE COUNTRY so long as a proportion (100%) of their population know they can literally GET AWAY WITH MURDER.

Not really. Catherine Horton's killers were caught and prosecuted because they weren't in the upper echelons of Thai society.