At last Flr granted

[keithsimmonds]

Flr Application submitted on 15th May. An 8 week process delayed because Home Office Ukvi wanted to investigate the ETS TOIEC test we submitted. We finally got a letter from the Home Office yesterday saying receipt of Brp will be in the next 7 to 10 days. No mention what so ever if we could submit that same Ets test certificate in 2 years time if we wanted to apply for Flr again,just all documents returned as sent...no telephone number to contact......nothing.......and they would like me to complete a customer satisfaction survey

[Richard W]

It is your public duty to report your dissatisfaction.

[durhamboy]

Keith, thanks for posting this. Am I therefore right in thinking that your wife's FLR has been granted even though you submitted a TOEIC certificate AFTER they had already been struck-off the Home Office's approved list?

[durhamboy]

It is your public duty to report your dissatisfaction.

No one has a public duty to report any dissatisfaction. Furthermore, people whose partners are still subject to immigration control should be very careful when making complaints against UK immigration authorities. UK Immigration authorities do not have the same "duty of care" to immigrants and their partners as other UK organisations do.

[keithsimmonds]

Keith, thanks for posting this. Am I therefore right in thinking that your wife's FLR has been granted even though you submitted a TOEIC certificate AFTER they had already been struck-off the Home Office's approved list?

Yes you are correct durhamboy,a test that she passed back in september 2011 in Asoke. My Wife received her Brp permit today....expiry date 25/09/2016..........surprised me as i would have thought it would be dated from when we submitted our application on 15th May or when her settlement visa ran out which was the 1st July.

[bobrussell]

I would suspect there will be no problem with the existing certificate unless it was from one of the real problem exam centres indicated by the panorama programme.

https://www.ets.org/toeic/important_update/update_toeic_uk

If it has been accepted this time there is no reason for it to be rejected in future.

Obviously it is of little importance for ILR because of the requirement for a higher English standard and the Life in the UK test to be passed.

Nothing wrong with filling in the satisfaction survey honestly. There is often a box to voice particular concerns.

I am amazed they even dare chance a satisfaction survey!

[wooloomooloo]

Without knowing your wife's history, Keith, why is she applying for FLR?

[keithsimmonds]

Without knowing your wife's history, Keith, why is she applying for FLR?

She couldn,t pass the Lituk Test............failed 3 times.

[durhamboy]

Keith, thanks for posting this. Am I therefore right in thinking that your wife's FLR has been granted even though you submitted a TOEIC certificate AFTER they had already been struck-off the Home Office's approved list?

Yes you are correct durhamboy,a test that she passed back in september 2011 in Asoke. My Wife received her Brp permit today....expiry date 25/09/2016..........surprised me as i would have thought it would be dated from when we submitted our application on 15th May or when her settlement visa ran out which was the 1st July.

Keith, sorry to be a bit of a pain on this. Great that your wife got her FLR but I note that you applied with the TOEIC cert on 15th. May 2014. I may be wrong, but I believe TOEIC was struck off after that date. If so future FLR applications with TOEIC or BULATS certs could still be refused. Anyone care to comment?

[keithsimmonds]

Keith, thanks for posting this. Am I therefore right in thinking that your wife's FLR has been granted even though you submitted a TOEIC certificate AFTER they had already been struck-off the Home Office's approved list?

Yes you are correct durhamboy,a test that she passed back in september 2011 in Asoke. My Wife received her Brp permit today....expiry date 25/09/2016..........surprised me as i would have thought it would be dated from when we submitted our application on 15th May or when her settlement visa ran out which was the 1st July.

Keith, sorry to be a bit of a pain on this. Great that your wife got her FLR but I note that you applied with the TOEIC cert on 15th. May 2014. I may be wrong, but I believe TOEIC was struck off after that date. If so future FLR applications with TOEIC or BULATS certs could still be refused. Anyone care to comment?

My gut feeling is that it will not be acceptable should we apply for Flr again in 2 years time. I think the only reason it was accepted this time was because our cheque had been cashed prior to changes on the 1st and 14th of July although i will never know if that was the case. I do think that some casework officers don,t know what the hell they doing,and seeing as i have letters from 2 different case officers from the same team plus a letter from the head of uk visas..and TODAY an update from my Mp Philip Hammond saying an investigation is still taking place (18/09/2014) via a Mrs Sajeev assistant director .... well... i rest my case

I am sure i read somewhere in the mouintains of guff availble,that if a certificate was accepted once ie, for our original spouse visa over 2 years ago and now acceptable for this application for Flr then it should be acceptable in the future, but i wouldn,t bet on it.

I the next few days i will write to the case officer who sent us the Brp letter and ask him............im not waiting 2 years i want to know now.

[durhamboy]

I entirely agree with you that they do not know what they are doing. We saw their ineptitude when we tried to find out if expired English certs were acceptable. It took me and others over a year to get an answer. The first answer (also via an MP I believe) was wrong!

You mention Philip Hammond - well you would have thought that the Foreign Secretary would get it right wouldn't you?

[keithsimmonds]

I entirely agree with you that they do not know what they are doing. We saw their ineptitude when we tried to find out if expired English certs were acceptable. It took me and others over a year to get an answer. The first answer (also via an MP I believe) was wrong!

You mention Philip Hammond - well you would have thought that the Foreign Secretary would get it right wouldn't you?

Unfortunately Mr P.Hammond was as much use as a chocolate Tpot. I saw him for 45 minutes on the 27th june explaining my wifes situation and how poorly educated she was which was of no fault of her own, (details i won,t bore you with) and how unfair the Lituk test was,and if the Actual test questions were made availble on line then she would have a much better chance of passing,and why the hell was there an investigation into a test that was corrupted in the Uk when her test was taken and passed and excepted for settlement purpsoses in Thailand. What he said was he would write to Brokenshire and put my wifes case to him and write to uk visas and find out if anything other than the TOIEC test was holding up our application. What came back via Brokenshire to him was .....no mention of my wifes name just the immigration rules as they are for everyone,laid out in 2 paragraphs chapter and verse........well uck me i knew that mate, and uk visas ............it will take as long as it takes, thanks for nothing. I could go on and on about everything to do with the total ineptitude of that whole immigration department,from individual people to helpline numbers..........helpline numbers my arsssse.

I have just sent a letter to the Immigration team in Sheffield who sent us our Brp letter and asked for a definitive answer if we apply for Flr in 2 years time will that Ets TOIEC still be acceptable.??

I,ll let you know of there response......if i get one

[durhamboy]

At least you can eat a chocolate teapot!

Totally agree with all your sentiments about this absolute shambles of an immigration system we have in the UK.

I hope the other members of this forum (most of whom seem to have Thai partners who obtained ILR/Citizenship many moons ago) who sometimes go to great lengths to defend the system read what you said.

[bobrussell]

It was a shambles back then!

My wife went through this a few years ago. Great expense, long waits, poor service. No change there!

Failure to answer specific questions or offering completely generalised answers as to be no help at all were the norm then as now. 7x7's wife went through the system when it was a bit less 'industrialised' but the reality is that bureaucracy has changed little over the years, except in price. The answer to the question regarding ETS TOEIC is probably not forthcoming because nobody in power has worked out the answer! As a general guide rules do not get backdated so there is plenty to suggest that if something was acceptable before it should be accepted in the future. Getting someone to put that on paper is the real challenge.

I don't see many members defending the system but what the experienced do is guide others through the system. Correct paperwork, carefully prepared applications will generally result in a correct decision under the rules (even if not the one the applicant wishes for).

Rushed political decisions, poorly thought out rules together with an under resourced system leads to the situation we are in now but don't underestimate the quality of the advice from the 'dinosaur' members of the forum!

[durhamboy]

Well Bob I am glad that we agree that it is a shambles. Actually I have been involved on a personal level off and on for nearly 40 years with visa applications etc. Back then it was the Patriality system - very quick, easy and cheap. Only drawback was that only females marrying men could settle in the UK. Hence the name. Back then that was the way of the world.

Since Patriality in my opinion the rules, regulations and hoops that people now have to go through have become progressively more onerous. So much so that even the powers that be are not sure of their own rules!

I do not discount the advice given by the "dinosaurs" here (I'm probably a dinosaur myself). There is a lot of very good advice given here. However I have to slightly disagree with you in that I think there is a tendency from some members who have not been through the current process to not fully appreciate the problems many of these new rules are causing people.

[bobrussell]

I suspect most do fully appreciate the problems. What we/they don't have is a satisfactory answer because there really isn't one!

Anti-immigration feeling is widespread in the UK so there is little sympathy for those battling with the system. Politicians are more worried about the public obsession with immigrants than the welfare of a few trying to bring in a non-EU spouse. This is not going to change in the immediate future.

It seems to be the more established, knowledgeable members that support a more flexible immigration policy especially with regard to the income requirements. I accept there may be an element of relief coming across that they are not battling with the new rules.

We would have been OK even under the new rules but may not have been a few years ago.

Appreciation of the problems the rules are causing does not provide answers unfortunately!

[wooloomooloo]

Without knowing your wife's history, Keith, why is she applying for FLR?

She couldn,t pass the Lituk Test............failed 3 times.

Being pragmatic, if your wife were my wife then I'd be seeking a longer term solution away from the endless FLR-fest, Keith.

Your wife has experienced three LitUK tests and I would consider that good experience for a start.

You didn't mention whether your wife has passed B1, so I'll assume that she has. That's another positive. [Though, if she isn't at a level to pass B1 then LitUK test is a big ask, in my opinion].

Is your wife studying a college course at present? Would you consider a private tutor for a few hours a week? A private tutor could be employed to focus on LitUK revision, if you so wished. A little outlay for a greater goal and long term financial saving.

I'm certain a fair percentage of failures have their origins rooted in a disinterested / demotivated spouse unable or unwilling to motivate or be radical. I'm not suggesting your are, of course.

I only suggest that there's a lot you can do yourself, as a husband, to improve the current status quo.

[keithsimmonds]

Without knowing your wife's history, Keith, why is she applying for FLR?

She couldn,t pass the Lituk Test............failed 3 times.

Being pragmatic, if your wife were my wife then I'd be seeking a longer term solution away from the endless FLR-fest, Keith.

Your wife has experienced three LitUK tests and I would consider that good experience for a start.

You didn't mention whether your wife has passed B1, so I'll assume that she has. That's another positive. [Though, if she isn't at a level to pass B1 then LitUK test is a big ask, in my opinion].

Is your wife studying a college course at present? Would you consider a private tutor for a few hours a week? A private tutor could be employed to focus on LitUK revision, if you so wished. A little outlay for a greater goal and long term financial saving.

I'm certain a fair percentage of failures have their origins rooted in a disinterested / demotivated spouse unable or unwilling to motivate or be radical. I'm not suggesting your are, of course.

I only suggest that there's a lot you can do yourself, as a husband, to improve the current status quo.

Do you know me? Do you know my wife or anything about her life? No is the answer to both those questions. Your opinion,s or asumptions are not helpful or needed and i find your post totally insulting and offensive. Do your homework or research before you start offering your opinion on a subject you clearly know <deleted> all about......namely me and my wife.

[wooloomooloo]

Carry on as you are then, Keith. Up to you.

[stuartsko]

I noticed the op stated that the application was made in May.. I think it was after that date the home office once again moved the goalposts and rendered the exams and providers invalid.. It could be possible they took that into account as at the time of application it was acceptable.. Not that it's like the home office to make things fair, the whole thing stinks.. My wife also has to retake the test we were led to believe by the home office was acceptable.. They should still accept the old tests, and not accept ones taken after the date they changed the rules.

[durhamboy]

Without knowing your wife's history, Keith, why is she applying for FLR?

She couldn,t pass the Lituk Test............failed 3 times.

Being pragmatic, if your wife were my wife then I'd be seeking a longer term solution away from the endless FLR-fest, Keith.

Your wife has experienced three LitUK tests and I would consider that good experience for a start.

You didn't mention whether your wife has passed B1, so I'll assume that she has. That's another positive. [Though, if she isn't at a level to pass B1 then LitUK test is a big ask, in my opinion].

Is your wife studying a college course at present? Would you consider a private tutor for a few hours a week? A private tutor could be employed to focus on LitUK revision, if you so wished. A little outlay for a greater goal and long term financial saving.

I'm certain a fair percentage of failures have their origins rooted in a disinterested / demotivated spouse unable or unwilling to motivate or be radical. I'm not suggesting your are, of course.

I only suggest that there's a lot you can do yourself, as a husband, to improve the current status quo.

Do you know me? Do you know my wife or anything about her life? No is the answer to both those questions. Your opinion,s or asumptions are not helpful or needed and i find your post totally insulting and offensive. Do your homework or research before you start offering your opinion on a subject you clearly know <deleted> all about......namely me and my wife.

Totally agree Keith. Wooloomooloo made similar posts to me about my wife's LITUK. He does not know people's private situations yet he thinks he can presume to know and then start giving his homespun advice about how he thinks that we should tackle problems!

[wooloomooloo]

That's the beauty of a forum, durhamboy - you can take it, or leave it. Up to you.

[7by7]

Indeed, wooloomooloo.

The main purpose of this forum is to offer advice.

Most of the people who offer advice do so in good faith with the aim of trying to help.

But, unfortunately, as seen above some people take this as a personal attack upon them or their spouse!

To paraphrase Shakespeare (Hamlet, 3,2); methinks some do protest too much!

If people don't like the advice offered them; ignore it.

[bobrussell]

Have to admit I agree with wooloomooloo's advice. I cannot see why it should be taken as a personal attack!

A private tutor makes perfect sense and you can get quite a few hours tuition for the cost of a FLR application.

True this may not be for everyone but there is a way forward for everyone. My wife went to college to do her ESOL (when that was what was required). She had done a lot of English study so reached a surprisingly high standard. There were others that spoke very limited English (not Thai's). They all got there in the end!

Throwing your hands in the air and giving up is, of course, another option!

Nobody is claiming LitUK is easy but bringing English skills to B1 makes perfect sense for someone living in the UK. Lack of education does not mean lack of intelligence and most Thai's I know are pretty smart!

[durhamboy]

Wooloomooloo & 7by7 - yes, agreed the main purpose of this forum is to give advice.

However too many people here (including both of you) consistently assume knowledge about other people's personal situations. Those people come here to get advice on specific problems but in some cases you guys expand your advice to encompass assumed situations and that sometimes leads to offence being caused. Furthermore at times this extra uncalled for advice gives the impression of a preacher preaching to an errant member of his flock.

So Wooloomooloo as far as your advice is concerned then I personally would prefer that you do not respond at all to any advice that I might seek from this forum in the future. Thanks but no thanks.

[keithsimmonds]

For the benefit of all who have never read what i have ACTULLY posted on more than one occassion regarding my wife and my wife only. She did go to college for 2 terms,passed Esol Level 1 which she was assessed at, and then jumped a level to level 3 at my say so but alas didn,t pass, all irrelevant anyway having failed ther Lituk Test and time was up,so had to apply for Flr.

My wife as i have posted before is from a very small village in the Chaiyaphum province and because her parents couldn,t afford the 20 Baht per day Taxi-Bus fayre had to leave school at the age of 13 and was shipped of to work,by her parents, to a cotton factory then soup kitchen in Bangkok,when i met her (age 25) she was head girl at a resort in Jontiem,hardly spoke a word of english,yet on our 2nd date turned up with a brand new thai English translation Book which we still have today

We have 3 official lituk study guide books plus i in Thai and 2 Official Q and A books,we studied every single night for more than a year, my wife passed countless on line tests with ease.but couldn,t get more than 13 questions correct in the actual test. I have only seen my wife cry once in the 8 years that i have known her,coming out of that last test having failed for a 3rd time..............in my mind there won,t be a 4th...........but thats up to her....not me.

Just to put a little more meat on those bones..........my wife works 7 yes 7 days a week.

So yeah i do take it as an insult or offensive when some people just keep about all it takes is a bit of effort anyone can do it, no they can,t the same as it is for kids in this country there will always be those that can achieve more academically and those that can,t. Seeing as i am the Op those comments were aimed at me. Got it?

[wooloomooloo]

Here's the rub, Keith. Your good wife resides in the UK on the most transient of [expensive] visas, of which the bottom could drop out at a moment's notice.

Don't give up now.